Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by roysid, Sep 24, 2009.
Than he is is 2009.
is this even debatable? I am really asking.
He was better when he still had mono?
I guess so. Everyone's praising about Federer now whereas last year he was written off.
To me, he is playing at the same level or slightly decreased level than last year.
There was no Nadal to throw him away that he won French and Wimbledon.
Uh, I am not a fanatic on Federer. So I could be wrong, but that can also mean I am not biased. Let's see, 2 grand slams. He got some good wins off of his biggest rivals. He made the final in all the slams this year. that's already better than the year before. But is he Actually playing better? I think so. In the end it does not matter since his year was better than the last one.
Yes, he is better in 09
Besides, health is a part of the game. Just like the forehand, movement, and ball toss. Nadal had an injury, most injuries don't pick you out of thin air. Anyone with eyes can see Nadal plays a very taxing game to his knees. Now he is having a hard time. We can't say what if and lessen Feds year cause Nadal was having a reaction to years of his kind of play. Besides Federer did beat him right before the French. He was injured? I know, so if they met at the French it did not look good for Nadal anyways. Instead Fed played the guy who beat Nadal and took him out.
Yeah, 09, better.
I don't think more success=playing better. Anyone would admit Federer had a better year in '09, and that is what is important in the end. If the way Federer has played this year is any indication (a very poor spring hard court season) and some inconsistent play as of late, and the rising stars moving up, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting a year in '10 nearly as well as either '08 or '09.
so then answer me how you would know he is playing better on the year he lost more ? would love to know?
As long as he stays focused and doesn't lose interest (which he might) I see no reason why he couldn't have another great year. At this point you should know what it is he wants? Slams.
But, judging by how he did not seemed bothered much with losing in the finals, I can see him backing off a little next year. but who knows.
I don't recall as many inconsistent results, such as a lackluster spring hard court season, and Federer at his absolute best I don't think would ever have let this U S Open final get away from him (not to take anything away from del Potro), and I certainly don't recall any occasions where he had such a complete meltdown as he did against Tsonga in Canada. Truth is, Nadal had a career year in '08 and Federer still had a terrific one himself even though he lost his Wimbledon crown to Nadal.
now he was playing better in 2004 and 05
I think Fed's peak was '04 to '07, but I was making a comparison to '08 and '09. The drop off will start to be quicker now.
It is not totally obvious that Federer at his best would not have let the USO final get away. After all he did lose an epic match to Safin at AO during his best and a master cup final to Nalbandian.
To me, his game hasn't been at its best since 2007, it's more erratic and less precise, his movement has slightly declined as well but does it matter? He still scares the s--- out of his opponents and finds ways to beat them most of the time. But from a purely tennistic perspective, his "golden" years were 2004 to 2006. Personally, I would rate 2004 as my favorite even though resultwise his grand year was 2006.
I don't think there is a significant difference between 2008 and 2009, at least I can't see one. He did in 2009 what he would have done in 2008 if Nadal had been out of the way. I have no doubt that he would have won both RG and W in 2008 if Nadal had been MIA (although Djoko could have conceivably given him some trouble in the RG final). As for USO, he was a bit tired I think, he had played a lot and just won Cincy. Delpo was fresher.
You make a couple of good points. I don't think either year was as good as before 2007, but that wasn't the question on this thread. IMO, he looked very inconsistent throughout much of 2009, more than he has in the past.
Better in 2008 than 2009? Seriously?!
How is that? In 2008 he made 3 slam finals out of 4 and didn't win a single master, in 2009 he made all 4 slam finals and won 2 masters. Whatever drop there is in his game, it's slight, major drop off hasn't happened yet and there's no reason to think it will happen in the near future unless his back gets worse or his motivation deserts him.
everybody seems to be questioning Rafa´s injuries, but what about Fed´s mono???
Not really. In 08 he didn't have the luck of Nadal being injuried at RG and Wimbledon, he is playing the same really this year.
Fed has played much better this year than last. His movement is much, MUCH better, and his play has been more precise.
As for his "mono" in 2008, who gives a hoot. At least he didn't get banned from playing a major like Nadal did this year, and still made 3 of 4 slam finals.
you forgot to mention the US Open this year, the AO open, and every single match he has ever played. Yes, even the ones he played when he was a little kid.
Nadal was injured before he started playing!
Yeah, when he was in the womb, daddy and mommy had sex, and as a result of all the poking going on, it injured his abdomen, and gave him tendonitis in the knees.
Federer's losses to players outside the top 20 in 2008:
1. Mardy Fish, 98: 3-6, 2-6
2. Radek Stepanek, 27 : 6-7(4), 6-7(7)
3. Gilles Simon, 22: 6-2, 5-7, 4-6
4. Ivo Karlovic, 22: 6-7(6), 6-4, 6-7(5)
LOL. Poor baby Rafa
......or other up and coming players younger than him continue to improve. Face it, it is inevitable, it happens to everybody.
It is all in the head I guess. Technically speaking, I think he wasn't any better in 2009 than in 2008, but the fact that Nadal crashed out of the FO and then could not play at Wimbledon paved the way for a boost in confidence.
At the beginning of 2009 Fed was frankly playing like crap. He seemed to have lost all his confidence with the racquet breaking incident against Novak as culminating point. I really wonder what a fresh Nadal would have done to his confidence.
Anyway, Fed is still a helluva player, but he is beatable as Delpo showed. His prime is over, but he is still a major threat on any surface.
But all of his losses this year came mostly to players in the top 10. There hasn't been a "Mardy Fish" loss this year.
IMO, those losses to top ten players are going to become a little more frequent. I mean, Federer isn't dead yet and he can still be a threat on any surface (I can't ever imagine another French in his future), but a changing of the guard is under way as bad as Federer fans don't want to accept it.
He's playing differently..and I think its much much better than last year.
He's added a few things to his game.Its not very high risk but still effective.His got controlled aggression on his FH whereas last year he was just trying to smack winners.He's running around his BH more when it comes high to him.Hell,his BH is holding up so much better even when the hig ball come-He's taking it down the line-he's really worked on that and its holding up much better now.
He is approaching the net consistently and more importantly his second serve is so much better as is his first serve.
He's moving better,getting to balls he couldnt get to last year.He's added the drop shot as weapon which IMO has been fantastic addition to his game.I know he used it last year but this year its so much more effective.
His net approaches are not as hesitant,he's going there more confidently and with less fear of being passed.
Thus,2009 is def. better.
To compare the level of a player is not just looking at the results. Sure Fed made 3 and 4 finals in 2008 and 2009 respectively, but the manner in which he made them was not the same as in previous years. For people who actually watch the matches, one can easily see Fed's level has dropped off quite dramatically. His results still being as good as they are, are a testament to how much better he actually was than the rest of the field, including Nadal. It is only now with Fed's level no longer the same that Nadal can have a fighting chance at winning non-clay majors.
I agree he was pushed at both FO and Wimbledon but that happened last year as well.
IMO he's playing smarter tennis this year.Sure,he isnt going to be playing at his peak level but its a lot better in 2008 when he really couldnt move well at all and was just really struggling to find his range.
He played some good tennis in patches but thats been the case this year too.
Overall I think him being in better shape this year has helped him to play better than last year though he is nowhere close to his best.
Roger is same or worse this year than last, FO was all but handed to him and he almost lost to Haas and Delpo there. Then Andy Roddick almost beat him at Wim.
So if Roger is playing better than that must mean the rest of the feild is much better as they are having better results against Roger. Which means the feild was weak perviously
You can't have it both way.
Federer lost four times to players outside the top 20 in 2008. He had no such losses in 2009.
If you believe that majors are "all but handed " to particular players you don't know much about professional tennis.
You can't draw any conclusions about the strength of the field from one's player's performance in two years. But I guess that logic is not one of your strong points.
Federer is doing significantly better against the field this year than the last. He was struggling against guys outside the top 20 throughout the year last year. That hasn't been much of an issue this year.
Federer can't play a few great matches in a row nowdays. Although I would say he's more consistent in 2009 than in 2008. However none of those years, game wise, comapre to the greatness that was 2006. I have never seen a player so dominant as Fed that year.
Yes, let's talk about AO this year, poor Fed wasn't lucky enough to avoid Rafa then...
Stop being a fanboy, Nadal isn't the only part of the equation. The fact is Federer had some horrible losses in 2008 for other players not called Nadal, and to people he usually owns: Roddick, Fish, Blake, Karlovic, Stepanek. This year his losses, other than to Wawrinka, all have been to top 10 players, and all in very tight matches. Fed's record over top 10 players is fairly good this year as well.
Believe me, I want it to happen! (I'm not a Fed fan at all) but I just don't think it's happening at the moment. He's still posting dominant results. Sure things can change fast but right now he's been a finalist in all 4 slams and the 2 finals he lost were 5 setters. Doesn't look like a sharp decline to me, no matter how you spin it.
I dont call *******s logic deluded for no reason..according to them the only way another player wins a tournament is if Nadal dosent play or is tired and injured.
Underlying level is continuing to drop. I can see some pre Final/SF losses to non top 10 players in the AO and FO next year.
I agree with this..I think we'll see a pretty big drop in his form next year.
I'm sorry but I don't see where the basis is for such a prediction. I know it's bound to happen one day but who among current players is gonna beat him in a slam before the final rounds? I can't think of a name right now and I don't see a significant decrease in his motivaton either (although that could have happened after the twins' birth).
Out off curiosity, how much tennis have you played in your life? Im not gonna try and bash you, after all, im not a Nadal-fan!
What does that have to do with my post? Do you also think Fed is gonna crash miserably in 2010? And is this opinion somehow grounded in your own tennis level and experience? I see Fed fans are widely optimistic about the near future
I don't really get why the doom and gloom but I sure wouldn't mind being wrong, trust me on that ;-)
No, sorry, that question from me was not based on this specific topic, just based on some off the things you have written, but ill draw my own conclusions from your lack off answer.
Feel free to draw any conclusions you like but I still don't see the relevance of my playing tennis in the context of this thread. (And by the way it's not "some off" and "lack off", it's "some of" and "lack of". Well at least , I can write, can't I ?)
Absolutely, you write very good things sometimes.
I was just curious based on some off the things you have written about Nadal, as i said im not even gonna try too bash you, im a Fed-fan!:twisted:
Agreed. A motivated Fed would not have let this last USO go. You can tell it didn't even bother him as much.
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