Federer will never win against Murray again

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
You just cannot believe what Murray does or acts.

Yesterday he was holding his calf the moment he was down against Gasquet. Once he broke him , he was upset Gasquet was taking 23 seconds to serve in between points (when the rule is 25 secs)

I missed that match. TIme zone issues. Saw only the first set of the Fed-Murr match, slept after that. Murray would be tired from several 3 setters, and last week at Montreal.

LOL, during the Dolgo-Djoker match, I was thinking "where was this Djoko during the WO final !"
 

timnz

Legend
Show how fraught with difficulties projections are. Federer has won the last 5 straight matches against Murray with the loss of only 1 set total (and that was in a tie breaker).
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
tumblr_olbdz0ss8A1s7ctjto1_1280.jpg
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
Honest mistake from the OP. Let's not get cocky though or before we know it Federer will be losing to Murray in the latter stages of Wimbledon. :(
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Honest mistake from the OP. Let's not get cocky though or before we know it Federer will be losing to Murray in the latter stages of Wimbledon. :(

The OP makes only honest mistakes , but in abundance

- Nadal Double Career slam thread year after year

- real slam thread

- Serena vs Federer who is greater

- Fed will never beat MurrY again

The list goes on and on !!
 
Z

Zara

Guest
It wasn't too far fetched back then but he fell short mentally in slams and Federer always played against Murray as if he had some sort of personal vendetta against him. I still remember how Federer reacted in that 2013 AO semi-final where Murray was playing with a lot of authority. Too bad that Andy had to go through a back surgery that slowed him down and took a lot of time just to come to the same level. That truly allowed Federer to win all their encounters in 2014 and 2015. But still, the H2H is respectable 14-11 given Andy's struggle after his first Wimbledon and the back surgery.
 

-NN-

G.O.A.T.
It wasn't too far fetched back then but he fell short mentally in slams and Federer always played against Murray as if he had some sort of personal vendetta against him. I still remember how Federer reacted in that 2013 AO semi-final where Murray was playing with a lot of authority. Too bad that Andy had to go through a back surgery that slowed him down and took a lot of time just to come to the same level. That truly allowed Federer to win all their encounters in 2014 and 2015. But still, the H2H is respectable 14-11 given Andy's struggle after his first Wimbledon and the back surgery.

Timing helped Federer in these match-ups, as he was further along in his recovery and his injury was less severe (both with back problems). Nonetheless, that doesn't explain the lopsided nature of the recent encounters entirely. Clearly, Murray must come with a few new wrinkles in his next matches with Federer. He's won 1 set against him in the last 5 meetings. I don't expect Federer to keep nuking Murray in their future meetings.
 
Z

Zara

Guest
Timing helped Federer in these match-ups, as he was further along in his recovery and his injury was less severe (both with back problems). Nonetheless, that doesn't explain the lopsided nature of the recent encounters entirely. Clearly, Murray must come with a few new wrinkles in his next matches with Federer. He's won 1 set against him in the last 5 meetings. I don't expect Federer to keep nuking Murray in their future meetings.

It's just not Federer. Djokovic too had a field day against Murray in 2014 and 2015.
 

ZiggyStardust

Professional
I'm telling you guys, Federer is either sureshs, or knows him in real life, and visits these forums. It seems like his entire late career has been specifically designed to troll the man.

(With all Fed's talk about baseline sluggers, clay skew and the like during the AO I'm almost convinced he's spent the last 6 months lurking here.)
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Timing helped Federer in these match-ups, as he was further along in his recovery and his injury was less severe (both with back problems). Nonetheless, that doesn't explain the lopsided nature of the recent encounters entirely. Clearly, Murray must come with a few new wrinkles in his next matches with Federer. He's won 1 set against him in the last 5 meetings. I don't expect Federer to keep nuking Murray in their future meetings.

If Fed can nuke Nadal nowadays, imagine what he will do to Murray.
 

Big_Dangerous

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm telling you guys, Federer is either sureshs, or knows him in real life, and visits these forums. It seems like his entire late career has been specifically designed to troll the man.

(With all Fed's talk about baseline sluggers, clay skew and the like during the AO I'm almost convinced he's spent the last 6 months lurking here.)

Let me jog your memory:

 

Newballs

Professional
Murray has become the new Nadal for Federer. He will lose to him every time from now on.
Why in the hell would you even think that?
Did you vote for trump?
The last time I was afraid for Federer playing Murray was the '14 WTF, and that ended with Rog skipping a generation and drop kicking Judy.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Why in the hell would you even think that?
Did you vote for trump?
The last time I was afraid for Federer playing Murray was the '14 WTF, and that ended with Rog skipping a generation and drop kicking Judy.

Why are you trying to answer a post from 8 years ago? o_O
 

Newballs

Professional
Oh there is no try, I DID answer it.
Didn't realize it was from so long ago.
In all honesty, I still can't understand why the hell you'd ever think that.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Oh there is no try, I DID answer it.
Didn't realize it was from so long ago.
In all honesty, I still can't understand why the hell you'd ever think that.

Back at the start of 2009, Murray had won his last 3 matches against Federer. Some people evidently got a little over-excited by that and probably over-reacted.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
I must say I'm confused by the change in Federer's matchup dynamic with both Murray and Berdych is another head scratcher. Now that he's past 30 at least. Anyone care to explain?
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I must say I'm confused by the change in Federer's matchup dynamic with both Murray and Berdych is another head scratcher. Now that he's past 30 at least. Anyone care to explain?

Well some of it is just good circumstance for Federer. Of their last 5 meetings (5-0 for Fed, Murray won 3 of 4 before that) 3 of them were in 2014 which was the year Murray was coming off his surgery. Federer did beat him at the AO coming off a lousy 2013 with his own back problems though not as severe as Murray's, but the 2 other meetings were in Cincy and the WTFs, and that was the year that Murray played a load of tennis just to make it to London (6-0 6-1 match). In 2015 they played on 2 of Federer's favourite courts and he played lights out both times.

All that said, it doesn't excuse Murray completely as he's been unable to win a set in a long while and he's even having trouble finding ONE break of serve in a match. The other major reason for the Federer turnaround in the H2H is that Federer is not getting stuck in as many baseline duels with Murray as was once the case. And he's not slicing back the Murray serve which by any account is below average for a top player. So now he attacks the serve more and gets to the net more. This works pretty well against Murray because his passing shots are not actually top notch. It might sound strange to say that, but they were never quite in the league of a Nadal either for example. Djokovic is better than him as well, but neither are in the class of Nadal.

Murray doesn't do particularly well when rushed or surprised. He likes to get into a baseline rhythm which Federer used to give to him when he still thought he could beat everybody from the baseline himself, but now that he's accepted that he needs to shorten points his tactics are working against Murray in particular, but obviously Nadal and Djokovic sometimes, along with the rest of the field as well.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
It wasn't too far fetched back then but he fell short mentally in slams and Federer always played against Murray as if he had some sort of personal vendetta against him. I still remember how Federer reacted in that 2013 AO semi-final where Murray was playing with a lot of authority. Too bad that Andy had to go through a back surgery that slowed him down and took a lot of time just to come to the same level. That truly allowed Federer to win all their encounters in 2014 and 2015. But still, the H2H is respectable 14-11 given Andy's struggle after his first Wimbledon and the back surgery.

Haha all we know now is Murray managed a few wins over Fed at Mickey Mouse tournament that Fed barely bothered to show up for in like 08-10.

Murray is Fed's slam pigeon. It's a shame he choked vs raonic with his bad knee otherwise he'd have number 8.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
This thread probably was an indicator of the things to come from @sureshs.

He gave a glimpse of his potential with this thread kind of like how Murray played the AO '12 SF after getting Lendlized in Jan 2012 and left no doubts that he'd win a slam one day. Within about 7 months from then, Murray went on to win his first slam just like how @sureshs , within 7 months after creating this thread went on to create his GOAT thread.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Timing helped Federer in these match-ups, as he was further along in his recovery and his injury was less severe (both with back problems). Nonetheless, that doesn't explain the lopsided nature of the recent encounters entirely. Clearly, Murray must come with a few new wrinkles in his next matches with Federer. He's won 1 set against him in the last 5 meetings. I don't expect Federer to keep nuking Murray in their future meetings.

It works both ways. Murray eked out his only slam win over Fed in Fed's worst year and on slow HC in a tournament where he was runner up and STILL needed 5 sets. More factors need/needed to align to give Murray a shot at beating Fed in a slam than the other way round. Having said that, Fed's physical state is still precarious and I would expect him to get beaten by Murray if Murray gets there. If he doesn't, if he can't beat a journeyman serve and volleyer, it's on him, not Fed lucking out. This is not directed at you but at the opinions of some other posters up thread.
 
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Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
It works both ways. Murray eked out his only slam win over Fed in Fed's worst year and on slow HC in a tournament where he was runner up and STILL needed 5 sets. More factors need/needed to align to give Murray a shot at beating Fed in a slam than the other way round. Having said that, Fed's physical state is still precarious and I would expect him to get beaten by Murray if Murray gets there. If he doesn't, if he can't beat a journeyman serve and volleyer, it's on him, not Fed lucking out. This is not directed at you but at the opinions of some other posters up thread.

IMO, the biggest factor to Fed's AO win was an easy QF. Not because he couldn't have beaten Murray at AO 17, but because of the break he got when he didn't have to play what would likely be a high intensity match with Murray. It was more about the run of successive matches he would've had to win to take the title than it was about just the Murray match. Assuming everything stays the same except Murray beats Zverev then Federer would've had to go 5 sets with Kei, probably at least 4 tough ones with Murray, 5 sets with Stan, and 5 sets with Nadal.

Instead he got the QF break that happened at exactly the right time. Note that this isn't really the same as saying Federer was super lucky that his draw "fell apart." Clearly that never happened since he still had to beat Kei, Stan, and Rafa, and Rafa was the last person 99% of Federer fans wanted to see in the final.
 

RF-18

Talk Tennis Guru
Weird how 35 year old Federer performed better and even dominated even better Murray as oppose to before.

Im shocked. I man he is 32+.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
IMO, the biggest factor to Fed's AO win was an easy QF. Not because he couldn't have beaten Murray at AO 17, but because of the break he got when he didn't have to play what would likely be a high intensity match with Murray. It was more about the run of successive matches he would've had to win to take the title than it was about just the Murray match. Assuming everything stays the same except Murray beats Zverev then Federer would've had to go 5 sets with Kei, probably at least 4 tough ones with Murray, 5 sets with Stan, and 5 sets with Nadal.

Instead he got the QF break that happened at exactly the right time. Note that this isn't really the same as saying Federer was super lucky that his draw "fell apart." Clearly that never happened since he still had to beat Kei, Stan, and Rafa, and Rafa was the last person 99% of Federer fans wanted to see in the final.

No disagreement there. Without the Z QF, he may have been physically too spent by the time he got to the final. After say a 5 setter against Murray, he might have lost to Wawrinka, just as he did against Raonic at Wimbledon 2016.
 

Charlemagne

Hall of Fame
Well some of it is just good circumstance for Federer. Of their last 5 meetings (5-0 for Fed, Murray won 3 of 4 before that) 3 of them were in 2014 which was the year Murray was coming off his surgery. Federer did beat him at the AO coming off a lousy 2013 with his own back problems though not as severe as Murray's, but the 2 other meetings were in Cincy and the WTFs, and that was the year that Murray played a load of tennis just to make it to London (6-0 6-1 match). In 2015 they played on 2 of Federer's favourite courts and he played lights out both times.

All that said, it doesn't excuse Murray completely as he's been unable to win a set in a long while and he's even having trouble finding ONE break of serve in a match. The other major reason for the Federer turnaround in the H2H is that Federer is not getting stuck in as many baseline duels with Murray as was once the case. And he's not slicing back the Murray serve which by any account is below average for a top player. So now he attacks the serve more and gets to the net more. This works pretty well against Murray because his passing shots are not actually top notch. It might sound strange to say that, but they were never quite in the league of a Nadal either for example. Djokovic is better than him as well, but neither are in the class of Nadal.

Murray doesn't do particularly well when rushed or surprised. He likes to get into a baseline rhythm which Federer used to give to him when he still thought he could beat everybody from the baseline himself, but now that he's accepted that he needs to shorten points his tactics are working against Murray in particular, but obviously Nadal and Djokovic sometimes, along with the rest of the field as well.
Nice explanation. What about Berdych?
 
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