For all talks of Grass speed , let me tell you fast grass would not have seen the big 3 pulling magic tricks post 2015

[ForehandCross]

WB Grass these days is SLOW. Federer says it, Commentators take exception when his colleague calls it fast and slick surface, every year at least 6-7 players mention it. Boris said it in the match against Draper too. Anyone arguing this is ignorant.


Now there are several posters who say the want faster grass, but that would mean Federer losing early because of his aged reflexes, Djokovic struggling against big hitters and Nadal going out in R2-R3.


This whole idea that they slowed down to help one or two of the three is absurd. Federer hasn't been fast enough and instinctive enough in last 2-3 years. Djokovic has always hated playing big hitters on grass, Nadal is prone to weka R1-R2 after strong clay seasons



They slowed down to ensure, each of the three don't have to face a surface too different from rest of the tour.


Not saying big 3 won't be a force on it if it was faster, but definitely they will struggle a bit more.

 

[Deleted member 770948]

Nadal said his knees are at risk when he goes from the high bounce of RG week 2 clay, to the low bounce of Wimbledon week 1 grass.
So its less about the big servers (and he's lost to less than big servers at Wimbledon anyway) and more about Nadal's knees.
I think Uncle Toni even admitted that Nadal did not give full effort at 2013 Wimbledon.
He's worried about his knees, and doesn't move as aggressively to the ball, because he knows it will damage them.
Also realize that 28 years went by, between Borg winning RolandGarros-Wimbledon and Nadal doing it in 2008........so its a very difficult task, even for people without knee problems....
And you see what happened to Tsitsipas....

 

[6august]

Slow down the court to protect audiences' eyes.

)))

 

[tonylg]

WB Grass these days is SLOW. Federer says it, Commentators take exception when his colleague calls it fast and slick surface, every year at least 6-7 players mention it. Boris said it in the match against Draper too. Anyone arguing this is ignorant.


Now there are several posters who say the want faster grass, but that would mean Federer losing early because of his aged reflexes, Djokovic struggling against big hitters and Nadal going out in R2-R3.


This whole idea that they slowed down to help one or two of the three is absurd. Federer hasn't been fast enough and instinctive enough in last 2-3 years. Djokovic has always hated playing big hitters on grass, Nadal is prone to weka R1-R2 after strong clay seasons



They slowed down to ensure, each of the three don't have to face a surface too different from rest of the tour.


Not saying big 3 won't be a force on it if it was faster, but definitely they will struggle a bit more.

Probably right and tennis would be all the better for it.

 

[WYK]

I had the same fall Mannarino had the other day when I was playing on grass. I tore my MCL and was out of tennis for 9 months.
The courts are obviously much faster, though. All you have to do is look at the slices and 46 second games. But it may be due as much to the fact it is very damp at WImby this year.
I am in Ireland, and it's been sunny this whole time, but very humid. 100% on some days. So I imagine Wimby is quite greasy.
So the ATP has to balance it all out somehow. Good luck.

 

[SonnyT]

If they wouldn't have won, who would have? Isner, Opelka?

 

[InsideOut900]

Probably right and tennis would be all the better for it.

Exactly, implement a surface that favours servebots and no one can reasonably play on. Totally better for tennis.

 

[RF-18]

WB Grass these days is SLOW. Federer says it, Commentators take exception when his colleague calls it fast and slick surface, every year at least 6-7 players mention it. Boris said it in the match against Draper too. Anyone arguing this is ignorant.

Where did Federer say it's slow? I want to see comments on this years edition. Because to me, it seems faster this year and even more low bouncing.

 

[Hitman]

Grass certainly looks faster than in recent years, but the weather will also have a part. Lets see what happens as the courts get beat up and it warms up there.

 

[tonylg]

Exactly, implement a surface that favours servebots and no one can reasonably play on. Totally better for tennis.

Goran won Wimbledon, once. What on earth are you on about? Opelka went out first round.

You are scared of something that isn't even a thing. Baseline bots are the problem. They are a pox on tennis.

 

[blablavla]

Exactly, implement a surface that favours servebots and no one can reasonably play on. Totally better for tennis.

we have clay and HC, where all you need to win = run along the baseline till your opponent finally makes a mistake on the shot #73 in the rally

at least a few weeks of grass could be a different tennis?
you know variety is something after watching same baseline boring fest in the last almost 20 years

 

[tonylg]

we have clay and HC, where all you need to win = run along the baseline till your opponent finally makes a mistake on the shot #73 in the rally

at least a few weeks of grass could be a different tennis?
you know variety is something after watching same baseline boring fest in the last almost 20 years

Variety? Sounds scary, no?

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

I personally like to watch rallies on grass with some S&V mixed in. I don't know what's the obsession with 90's grass. It was great that they changed it to the ones these days

 

[blablavla]

Variety? Sounds scary, no?

berry, berry scarry
especially if it might bring at least a small probability that your favorite player will lose the GS race

 

[blablavla]

I personally like to watch rallies in grass with some S&V mixed in. I don't know what's the obsession with 90's grass. It was great that they changed it to the ones these days

I think the obsession is not with the 90s grass per se
it's more that since surfaces were homogenized, poly strings allowed and carpet courts banned from ATP, it doesn't matter on which surface the tournament is played, it's all a baseline fest, dominated by the same defense bots
ZERO variety

 

[InsideOut900]

You are scared of something that isn't even a thing. Baseline bots are the problem. They are a pox on tennis.

I am all for a speed-up at Wimbledon actually, except none of the young guys have any clue how to play on it and making it fast isn't going to make it any more exciting.

Hear me out. If they can't volley, it's only going to make those with good serves better and you are gonna get a lot of cluncky rallies since their movement is trash on this surface.
So they are still gonna "baseline bot", except even that is going to be uglier.

Truth of the matter, no one trains to become a grass specialist anymore, since grass is 10% of the season and every Slam is equally important.

 

[Tennis_Freak99]

I remember Nadal saying a few years back that the slowing down of the grass game is attributed significantly to the use of heavier balls. Maybe use lighter balls for a change. I honestly think the grass is fine as it is.

 

[tonylg]

I think the obsession is not with the 90s grass per se
it's more that since surfaces were homogenized, poly strings allowed and carpet courts banned from ATP, it doesn't matter on which surface the tournament is played, it's all a baseline fest, dominated by the same defense bots
ZERO variety

I think what those posters mean to say is they like to see some serve and volley, as long as it's a clumsy attempt by their hero when up 5-1 and 40-0 ... or someone proficient getting thumped by a baseline bot.

 

[tonylg]

I am all for a speed-up at Wimbledon actually, except none of the young guys have any clue how to play on it and making it fast isn't going to make it any more exciting.

Hear me out. If they can't volley, it's only going to make those with good serves better and you are gonna get a lot of cluncky rallies since their movement is trash on this surface.
So they are still gonna "baseline bot", except even that is going to be uglier.

And they'll lose. Guys like Humbert and Hurkacz will beat them. There is NO WAY Medvedev should beat Struff on proper grass. That is the perfect example of clumsy servebot v competent serve and volleyer.

 

[blablavla]

I am all for a speed-up at Wimbledon actually, except none of the young guys have any clue how to play on it and making it fast isn't going to make it any more exciting.

Hear me out. If they can't volley, it's only going to make those with good serves better and you are gonna get a lot of cluncky rallies since their movement is trash on this surface.
So they are still gonna "baseline bot", except even that is going to be uglier.

Truth of the matter, no one trains to become a grass specialist anymore, since grass is 10% of the season and every Slam is equally important.

lol, no
what will happen is, players like Brown will have chances to get more points, so the top 100 of ATP ranking won't be heavily dominated by folks like Travaglia or Cecchinato
and a few years down the line, when new blood will come, they will be much better all court players, just like a few years after the homogenization, the defense bots took over

 

[InsideOut900]

And they'll lose. Guys like Humbert and Hurkacz will beat them. There is NO WAY Medvedev should beat Struff on proper grass. That is the perfect example of clumsy servebot v competent serve and volleyer.

Ok fine, guys like Struff should be promoted and we should have 2-3 like him even among the title contenders, I will concede this one.
I think S&V vs baseline is ok, S&V vs S&V is not.

But then your so called improper grass was a medium-fast grass court on Court 1, which is also a decently slick surface. That's only a step slower than old school fast grass and it still didn't matter. Medvedev would have won anyway.

The Center Court it's where the grass is way too slow.

 

[tonylg]

Ok fine, guys like Struff should be promoted and we should have 2-3 like him even among the title contenders, I will concede this one.
I think S&V vs baseline is ok, S&V vs S&V is not.

But then your so called improper grass was a medium-fast grass court on Court 1, which is also a decently slick surface. That's only a step slower than old school fast grass and it still didn't matter. Medvedev would have won anyway.

The Center Court it's where the grass is way too slow.

They are all way too slow.

Currently watching Thompson v Rudd on court 12. It's woefully slow and high bouncing. Add Thompson to the list of competent all court players who should be able to use those net skills to get into the second week. He'll likely get beaten straights by this baseline bot.

 

[zagor]

WB Grass these days is SLOW. Federer says it, Commentators take exception when his colleague calls it fast and slick surface, every year at least 6-7 players mention it. Boris said it in the match against Draper too. Anyone arguing this is ignorant.


Now there are several posters who say the want faster grass, but that would mean Federer losing early because of his aged reflexes, Djokovic struggling against big hitters and Nadal going out in R2-R3.


This whole idea that they slowed down to help one or two of the three is absurd. Federer hasn't been fast enough and instinctive enough in last 2-3 years. Djokovic has always hated playing big hitters on grass, Nadal is prone to weka R1-R2 after strong clay seasons



They slowed down to ensure, each of the three don't have to face a surface too different from rest of the tour.


Not saying big 3 won't be a force on it if it was faster, but definitely they will struggle a bit more.

You do realize there are still people on this forum who followed the game before the big 3, right? They don't define tennis for me, never did and never will. It's their business how they would adapt or not adapt.

I prefer Wimbledon on old-school low bouncing grass, it's what I grew up watching.

 

[mwym]

There is no way they do it intentionally. It just somehow always happens to result in greater profit.

Ombeeleeble luck, no?

 

[tonylg]

Currently watching Thompson v Rudd on court 12.

They just played a boring as batsh1t 31 shot rally and the commentators were in raptures about how it was the rally of the match.

It wasn't. It was professional junkballing.

 

[OhYes]

WB Grass these days is SLOW. Federer says it, Commentators take exception when his colleague calls it fast and slick surface, every year at least 6-7 players mention it. Boris said it in the match against Draper too. Anyone arguing this is ignorant.


Now there are several posters who say the want faster grass, but that would mean Federer losing early because of his aged reflexes, Djokovic struggling against big hitters and Nadal going out in R2-R3.


This whole idea that they slowed down to help one or two of the three is absurd. Federer hasn't been fast enough and instinctive enough in last 2-3 years. Djokovic has always hated playing big hitters on grass, Nadal is prone to weka R1-R2 after strong clay seasons



They slowed down to ensure, each of the three don't have to face a surface too different from rest of the tour.


Not saying big 3 won't be a force on it if it was faster, but definitely they will struggle a bit more.

Matches would be boring. That is small thing you missed.

 

[zagor]

Exactly, implement a surface that favours servebots and no one can reasonably play on. Totally better for tennis.

Wimbledon never really favoured servebots, multiple Wimbledon champions were all complete players and great athletes. Sure you have a guy like Ivanisevic who was making deep runs but he moved on grass much better than the vast majority of the field now and was an underrated athlete (who also made 3 FO QFs).

It's an irrational fear, a guy like Isner or Kyrgios isn't gonna do better on old grass. Servebots will never dominate anything.

 

[steenkash]

Can someone explain how you can make Grass slower? People keep talking about it, but what is the actual process?

 

[blablavla]

Ok fine, guys like Struff should be promoted and we should have 2-3 like him even among the title contenders, I will concede this one.
I think S&V vs baseline is ok, S&V vs S&V is not.

what about defense bot vs defense bot?
on all surfaces, 52 weeks per year?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Wimbledon never really favoured servebots, multiple Wimbledon champions were all complete players and great athletes. Sure you have a guy like Ivanisevic who was making deep runs but he moved on grass much better than the vast majority of the field now and was an underrated athlete (who also made 3 FO QFs).

It's an irrational fear, a guy like Isner or Kyrgios isn't gonna do better on old grass. Servebots will never dominate anything.

From 93 to 2007 a guy with great serve won wimby. Ivanesevic is also example of it. Even a strong summer and firm ground gave us Isner vs Anderson sf. So it's not irrational fear at all.

 

[Spencer Gore]

lol, no
what will happen is, players like Brown will have chances to get more points, so the top 100 of ATP ranking won't be heavily dominated by folks like Travaglia or Cecchinato
and a few years down the line, when new blood will come, they will be much better all court players, just like a few years after the homogenization, the defense bots took over

That's exactly what happened. And a few years after the racquet change the serve bots started their rise.

it wasn't broke. They shouldn't have tried to fix it.

 

[zagor]

From 93 to 2007 a guy with great serve won wimby.

Having a great serve =/ servebot.

Ivanesevic is also example of it.

Who as I said, moved much better on grass than 99% the field today and knew how to play at the net. And he still only won it once, by the skin of his teeth.

Even a strong summer and firm ground gave us Isner vs Anderson sf. So it's not irrational fear at all.

Isner-Anderson is precisely the type of match that was made possible with higher bouncing grass (and it was very high bouncing in 2018). Neither of those guys would make it out of the 1st week in Wimbledon if the ball stayed low.

 

[nolefam_2024]

All of us want something in between but if it favors servebots, people will rather let defensebots take over.

Most casual viewers will at least side with defense since it gives more shots than just a serve domination.

 

[tonylg]

From 93 to 2007 a guy with great serve won wimby. Ivanesevic is also example of it. Even a strong summer and firm ground gave us Isner vs Anderson sf. So it's not irrational fear at all.

 

[blablavla]

From 93 to 2007 a guy with great serve won wimby. Ivanesevic is also example of it. Even a strong summer and firm ground gave us Isner vs Anderson sf. So it's not irrational fear at all.

Novak as of lately also relies on serve-botting
if Novaks wins the 2021 wimpleton trophy, will you demand that it is being played on green clay as of 2022? just to neutralize Nole's service?

 

[blablavla]

All of us want something in between but if it favors servebots, people will rather let defensebots take over.

Most casual viewers will at least side with defense since it gives more shots than just a serve domination.

is this your personal opinion based on your Nole fan-botting?

or this is based on some sort of global research?
cause in this case I'd like to see the research

 

[NoleIsBoat]

Wimbledon never really favoured servebots, multiple Wimbledon champions were all complete players and great athletes. Sure you have a guy like Ivanisevic who was making deep runs but he moved on grass much better than the vast majority of the field now and was an underrated athlete (who also made 3 FO QFs).

It's an irrational fear, a guy like Isner or Kyrgios isn't gonna do better on old grass. Servebots will never dominate anything.

Is Halle faster grass than Wimbledon? Usually more all court players win there rather than the giants

 

[tonylg]

Novak as of lately also relies on serve-botting

Also has a poor net game and a hopeless overhead.

Yet Sampras was the servebot, right?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Having a great serve =/ servebot.



Who as I said, moved much better on grass than 99% the field today and knew how to play at the net. And he still only won it once, by the skin of his teeth.



Isner-Anderson is precisely the type of match that was made possible with higher bouncing grass (and it was very high bouncing in 2018). Neither of those guys would make it out of the 1st week in Wimbledon if the ball stayed low.

I have only seen the highlights of isner and Sampras matches and 1 full set in the final. That style is never going to be great viewing for me personally however athletic it is. And probably majority of people agreed which is why it made them take huge steps.

Also it's generally accepted that low bounce is great for servebots. When you are playing tennis, I assume you also would hate dead low balls on serve.

 

[zagor]

Is Halle faster grass than Wimbledon? Usually more all court players win there rather than the giants

Yep. Halle was always pretty fast, why you see a bunch of grasscourt journeymen pop out there nearly every year.

 

[nolefam_2024]

is this your personal opinion based on your Nole fan-botting?

or this is based on some sort of global research?
cause in this case I'd like to see the research

This is what tennis commentators told us and from my friends discussion. Don't know about global research.

 

[tonylg]

Is Halle faster grass than Wimbledon? Usually more all court players win there rather than the giants

I'm current watching court 12, which another poster assured me is fast.

Anyone with eyes can tell it's much slower on the third day of play than Halle was in this year's final.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Novak as of lately also relies on serve-botting
if Novaks wins the 2021 wimpleton trophy, will you demand that it is being played on green clay as of 2022? just to neutralize Nole's service?

No

 

[blablavla]

Also it's generally accepted that low bounce is great for servebots. When you are playing tennis, I assume you also would hate dead low balls on serve.

Isner and actual live-match data stronkly disagrees with this statement

high bounce makes it possible for someone like Isner to make you try to return his serve above the shoulder, which is a huuuge problem
go read some of Isner interviews, and watch some of his matches on high-bouncing surfaces

 

[blablavla]

No

but you are against serve-bots, aren't you?
and Nole is often serve-botting lately

 

[nolefam_2024]

Oh you are right what a hussle.
I am fan of ADM nowadays.

 

[nolefam_2024]

but you are against serve-bots, aren't you?
and Nole is often serve-botting lately

Novak is 6'2". He is tall enough in real life but average height in tennis nowadays.

 

[tonylg]

Novak is 6'2". He is tall enough in real life but average height in tennis nowadays.

He is 2 inches taller than Sampras, has clumsy forward movement, poor volleys and terrible overhead.

Who is the servebot?

 

[blablavla]

Novak is 6'2". He is tall enough in real life but average height in tennis nowadays.

nice try, but you just failed at this ridiculous attempt of changing subject
let's get back to the starting point

you are against serve-bots
Nole is serve-botting quite a lot recently
what shall ATP do to mitigate this?

 

[nolefam_2024]

He 2 inches taller than Sampras, has clumsy forward movement, poor volleys and terrible overhead.

Who is the servebot?

Wasn't Sampras 6'1"?
He is almost same height as Sampras. And I am not saying Novak is best grass court player of all time.

But that style of play definitely had to go. Aces all the day.