Freaking Lobbers ... Aaaagh!

[PushyPushster]

So our playoff hopes are dependent upon beating two lobbers tonight. My partner and I have never actually beaten a team of lob kings. We both suck at overheads. I, in particular, REALLY suck at overheads. Less than 3 months ago I asked the question on this board about how to beat a team of lobbers and everyone said, "practice your overhead, dummy." Guess who hasn't practiced their overhead? At all. Not even once. It's like poetic justice, or something.

 

[skiracer55]

Pretty much...

So our playoff hopes are dependent upon beating two lobbers tonight. My partner and I have never actually beaten a team of lob kings. We both suck at overheads. I, in particular, REALLY suck at overheads. Less than 3 months ago I asked the question on this board about how to beat a team of lobbers and everyone said, "practice your overhead, dummy." Guess who hasn't practiced their overhead? At all. Not even once. It's like poetic justice, or something.

...in the meantime, don't let them lob. There's a million ways to do this, but what it comes down to is hit them balls that put them in a less-than-comfortable position to hit lobs. As in, hit an approach that makes them move three steps and stretch a lot. As in, maybe hit a heavy ball right at them. As in, hit some short, junky drop shots...most lobbers hate that stuff...you get the joke...

 

[spot]

So... have you consdiered going out an hour before your match and practice your overhead with your partner?

 

[beernutz]

Keep the ball low by hitting slices which are harder to lob. Hit short slice approach shots and come in behind them.

If you get lobbed, don't necessarily try to put away the first one, rather use it to advance your position. Try hitting a dink return or dropshot to pull them in instead of an overhead.

If you're lobbed and want to hit an overhead, move your feet to get into good position, take a serving-type stance, point your off hand at the ball, keep you eye on the ball all the way through contact (that's the hard one for me), and generally put it back down the middle unless you have a clean winner elsewhere.

My personal opinion is that I'd rather hit a weak overhead than commit a UE so my highest priority is a clean return rather than a winner. However, through a lot of practice with my ball machine my overheads have much improved to the point that people don't lob me nearly as much as they used to and when they do I try to make them pay. You'll probably play these lobbers again somewhere down the line so its not too late to start practicing your overheads.
</my $.02>

 

[jhick]

You do realize that if your opponent is smart, they will sooner or later figure out your overheads are weak and in turn hit more lobs at you, trying to exploit your weaknesses.

Focus first on just getting your overheads in, not worrying about hitting winners. If you at least get them in, you might not get lobbed quite as often.

 

[jc4.0]

So our playoff hopes are dependent upon beating two lobbers tonight. My partner and I have never actually beaten a team of lob kings. We both suck at overheads. I, in particular, REALLY suck at overheads. Less than 3 months ago I asked the question on this board about how to beat a team of lobbers and everyone said, "practice your overhead, dummy." Guess who hasn't practiced their overhead? At all. Not even once. It's like poetic justice, or something.

Nobody feels your pain like I do. I do have a good overhead, I think - but if someone is absolutely committed to hitting lobs off every single shot, you either have to hit a great overhead winner they can't return, "out-lob" them, or drive the ball back so hard and with such spin, they have no chance to lob you on the next ball.

Not an easy task to play lob-addict opponents, but you can bring them to their knees by making them play your game. Remember you'll have to be patient when they resort to their fave shot - the skyball. It's really the only shot they have, so your task is to take it away from them. Do that - and you'll win every time.

 

[spot]

Since your username is PushyPushster I'm not sure I see much of a difference between a pusher and a lobber. Both players rely on the other team to make unforced errors to win points. Are they just more consistent than you are? If these are defensive lobs the it seems to me that you always have the choice of letting the ball go and having your partner at the baseline take it. (I'm assuming you know its suicide for you and your partner to be 2-up)

 

[Power Player]

I sucked at overheads too and fixed them in rapid time -

1. turn to the side..do that instantly. You want to be to the side with your buttcap aimed at the ball and offhand pointing at it.

2. move behind the ball, don't get caught adjusting backwards when the ball is coming down.

3. most important..to start out just hit real relaxed..don't try to kill the ball at all. My best overheads feel like I barely even tried, and the results were clean hits that almost bounced over the back fence.

If you still are sucking somehow, then don't hit overheads..let the ball come down and play groundies..but you should be good if you follow the things I posted.

 

[PushyPushster]

Since your username is PushyPushster I'm not sure I see much of a difference between a pusher and a lobber. Both players rely on the other team to make unforced errors to win points. Are they just more consistent than you are?

Yeah, they're more consistent ... and it really chaps my backside to have to admit to it. Playing singles, it's not an issue. Doubles is a different ball of wax. The lobbing teams we've played all have the same strategy; they loft deep and move toward the net because they aren't scared of an overhead. My shots don't have much velocity so they'll eventually hurt me at the net. Either that or I get into a lobbing battle with them from the baseline and the percentages aren't in my favor.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. My partner and I discussed things and we've got a new gameplan which involves a mix of two-back, junk shots, and waiting for an opportunity to move forward. It probably won't work, but at least we'll lose in a different way. If the score isn't too embarrassing I'll let you know the results.

 

[Power Player]

hey man, another thing you guys can try is not getting to close to the net for volleys..stay closer to the service box line, which will make it harder for them to lob you.

 

[skiracer55]

Right answer...

Yeah, they're more consistent ... and it really chaps my backside to have to admit to it. Playing singles, it's not an issue. Doubles is a different ball of wax. The lobbing teams we've played all have the same strategy; they loft deep and move toward the net because they aren't scared of an overhead. My shots don't have much velocity so they'll eventually hurt me at the net. Either that or I get into a lobbing battle with them from the baseline and the percentages aren't in my favor.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. My partner and I discussed things and we've got a new gameplan which involves a mix of two-back, junk shots, and waiting for an opportunity to move forward. It probably won't work, but at least we'll lose in a different way. If the score isn't too embarrassing I'll let you know the results.

...for this match. After that, go work on your overheads...

 

[li0scc0]

hey man, another thing you guys can try is not getting to close to the net for volleys..stay closer to the service box line, which will make it harder for them to lob you.

This is great advice. I am a net crusher in doubles, but I have the tendency to get myself too close to the net. I found, against lobbers, it was a lot better to stand nearer the service line. Much easier to move forward to hit the put-away volley than to try and hit an overhead falling back.

 

[TennisDawg]

The best advice I have on this is not to crowd the net as others have pointed out. You have the advantage of knowing that these guys lob and lob often. When you are at the net and your partner is serving, move back just before they return the ball, look for the lob. Mix it up sometimes you stand at the service line when you're partner is serving, other times move back just before they return. If they lob your partner, he needs to serve and volley, but look for a lob, just figure you will be hitting a lot of overheads well placed.

 

[spot]

hey man, another thing you guys can try is not getting to close to the net for volleys..stay closer to the service box line, which will make it harder for them to lob you.

Actually... I strongly disagree with this advice. Moving back to the service line just means that you will be hitting tougher overheads more often. There are many players that struggle to hit overheads from the service line where they can put the ball away if they are closer and for someone who "REALLY sucks at overheads" then hitting one from the service line is the last thing in the world I want. If I have a partner who has poor overheads then I'd rather them take a step in, so when they do take an overhead then its one that they REALLY have to shank in order to miss. Otherwise they can let the other balls just go over their heads and since they are defensive lobs I have plenty of time to cross and take it as a ground stroke.

 

[precision2b]

hey man, another thing you guys can try is not getting to close to the net for volleys..stay closer to the service box line, which will make it harder for them to lob you.

This is great advice. I am a net crusher in doubles, but I have the tendency to get myself too close to the net. I found, against lobbers, it was a lot better to stand nearer the service line. Much easier to move forward to hit the put-away volley than to try and hit an overhead falling back.

I play a very good pusher that has a great lob. I started doing this to him and my wins against him went way up when I started doing this…

 

[precision2b]

Actually... I strongly disagree with this advice. Moving back to the service line just means that you will be hitting tougher overheads more often. There are many players that struggle to hit overheads from the service line where they can put the ball away if they are closer and for someone who "REALLY sucks at overheads" then hitting one from the service line is the last thing in the world I want. If I have a partner who has poor overheads then I'd rather them take a step in, so when they do take an overhead then its one that they REALLY have to shank in order to miss. Otherwise they can let the other balls just go over their heads and since they are defensive lobs I have plenty of time to cross and take it as a ground stroke.

I see what you are saying, but from the service line you can still come to net or retreat and hit a ground stroke…

 

[spot]

I see what you are saying, but from the service line you can still come to net or retreat and hit a ground stroke…

Personally I don't want the net player retreating to hit a ground stroke. I want the back player to move across to hit the groundstroke. Going back to the service line just puts a player with no overhead in position to hit a lot of tough overheads. Put them a step closer where they can focus 100% on only having putaway shots and leave the lobs to the back player. Against people who are just defensively lobbing then its no problem at all to have the back player cover the entire baseline.

Playing at the service line is great advice for someone who can hit an overhead... thats exactly where you would want them standing. This is the normal advice given to players in this situation but for someone who doesn't have a good overhead that just sounds like suicide. Why stand in a place that means your weakest shot will not only occur more often but also makes that shot more difficult?

 

[skiracer55]

Go work on your overhead...

...then, go work on your overhead some more. Then, hit about another 50 overheads. After that, go work on your overhead some more...got it?

 

[Fuji]

Just a little question here, what formation do you guys use?

I use Australian and it works great for me against lobbers. If the lob, I either let it go over my head, or I crush an over head. If I let it go over, the partner in back hits a groundstroke with lots of spin that makes them uncomfortable to lob, while I'm at the net to clean up whatever garbage they throw back. It's a good strategy against lobbers to have 1 up/back IMO!

-Fuji

 

[Cindysphinx]

Here's what I would suggest:

When the lob goes up, think of *nothing* other than turning and shuffling/running sideways. If you do that one thing, just that one thing, you will hit overheads that are somewhere between good and great.

If you can serve, you can overhead. Get sideways -- just like you set up when you serve -- and you will make them stop lobbing the old fashioned way.

 

[PushyPushster]

We won, 6-2, 6-2. I'd pretend to be Hannibal from the A-Team and say, "I love it when a plan comes together", except we've never actually had a plan come together like this before.

Playing two-back was exactly the right thing to do with these guys. You'd look like an idiot if you lobbed the ball with no one at the net, right? So, instead, we just started exchanging ground strokes which got them out of their game and into ours.

Again, thanks for all the advice. I think the important thing everyone emphasized was to figure out a way to get them out of their comfort zone. We didn't have to try drop shots, slices, or anything else fancy. Starting the points with no one at the net was enough.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Amateurs.

That two-back stuff would never work on me. I know, 'cause opponents have tried it. All it does it make me more relaxed because I know there is no price to be paid if my lob is short.

Congratulations!!

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Amateurs.

That two-back stuff would never work on me. I know, 'cause opponents have tried it. All it does it make me more relaxed because I know there is no price to be paid if my lob is short.

Congratulations!!

Lol I remember I was playing doubles once and the people I played against tried some two back formation so I was just like okay, I'm playing a short slice serve return from the ad side and every time we won the point, it either went for a winner or they put it right into the net. Of course my partner was just unbelievable awful...

 

[fleabitten]

I would not normally say this, but in your case you should hit short and bring them to the net. Try that out.

 

[goober]

Actually... I strongly disagree with this advice. Moving back to the service line just means that you will be hitting tougher overheads more often. There are many players that struggle to hit overheads from the service line where they can put the ball away if they are closer and for someone who "REALLY sucks at overheads" then hitting one from the service line is the last thing in the world I want. If I have a partner who has poor overheads then I'd rather them take a step in, so when they do take an overhead then its one that they REALLY have to shank in order to miss. Otherwise they can let the other balls just go over their heads and since they are defensive lobs I have plenty of time to cross and take it as a ground stroke.

Well I have come across some lobbers (not often) and I just park myself just inside the service line. They have to hit a very good lob for me to retreat to the baseline, otherwise I just take a couple steps back and hit an overhead for a winner or weak reply because they barely get their racquet on it. Yeah I will miss some, but as long as I am making the majority for winners, it is a winning strat. I am comfortable volleying farther off the net and usually these guys don't have great passing shots anyways. So for me staying at the service line area works.

To me the point is not let the ball go over my head for a defensive groundstroke or lob. The last team I played like this, both me and my partner hung out at the service line and hit over heads and won probably 80% of the time on their lobs. After the match they just said- "well I guess you guys figured us out!"

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Well I have come across some lobbers (not often) and I just park myself just inside the service line. They have to hit a very good lob for me to retreat to the baseline, otherwise I just take a couple steps back and hit an overhead for a winner or weak reply because they barely get their racquet on it. Yeah I will miss some, but as long as I am making the majority for winners, it is a winning strat. I am comfortable volleying farther off the net and usually these guys don't have great passing shots anyways. So for me staying at the service line area works.

To me the point is not let the ball go over my head for a defensive groundstroke or lob. The last team I played like this, both me and my partner hung out at the service line and hit over heads and won probably 80% of the time on their lobs. After the match they just said- "well I guess you guys figured us out!"

+1. Most lobbers I've face struggled to hit decent passing shots, so the service line was my favored location.

Even if they did manage to get a lob over my partner and me, we'd just chase it down, hit it back, and move back to the service line.

 

[spot]

otherwise I just take a couple steps back and hit an overhead for a winner

The thread is about what people should do if they "really suck at overheads". IF you can "take a couple steps back and hit an overhead for a winner" from behind the service line then you are in an entirely different situation.

 

[Setmatch45]

Mix low slice and hard top to the body.

 

[precision2b]

Amateurs.

All it does it make me more relaxed because I know there is no price to be paid if my lob is short.

Congratulations!!

Same here...

 

[whomad15]

slice overheads are very nice, plus they don't take a whole lot of energy to hit a good one. they always go deep, and you can really load the spin on them so they skid and hop far away.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

footwork footwork footwork.

above all else get yourself to a place where you are comfortable under the ball. One of the most common errors on OH is to let the ball get behind you so you end up reaching back for the thing. Not only is this hard to do, it makes it near impossible to hit with any power.

You want the ball coming down in front of you so you can basically 'serve' the thing. Since you will almost always be closer to the net than the baseline, you should be able to really hammer it. Remember, you can get your serve in with the same motion, so why not your overhead?

(for all those thinking "well, it isn't really the same motion", no, I know, but OP says his OH is rubbish, so using his service action is a good place to start as he knows how to land that swing in the court)

You can work on getting a bit more side on after this match but it still comes back to foot work.

get to a comfortable place under the ball!!!

(or let the damn thing bounce and play a groundie!)


*edit, turns out there's two pages to the thread!! Ah well, well done, and remember, footwork!

 

[Cereal68]

Swinging volley?

I've found that overheads don't seem nearly as difficult after trying a few swinging volleys

The other option would be to just settle in and lob the ball back!

 

[DolgopolovIsMyBoy924]

all ya gotta do against that strategy is really swing out on the first couple to get your rhythm and confidence up. don't be tentative, just gotta find your comfort zone early in the match. gotta take it to those type of players

 

[storypeddler]

Interestingly, no one has given the reply I would---that good lobbing is just as much of a skill as good serving. You throw up weak lobs or poorly placed lobs and opponents feed you overheads all night long. I lob a lot, but it's not because all my opponents have weak overheads. I have practiced and developed a very consistent lob that I can hit within a foot of the baseline and right in the corners. A player wants to get aggressive and try to intimidate me by charging the net, especially in doubles, I throw a lob right back over his off shoulder. After he has to slam on the breaks and run backward 4 or 5 times, or he and his partner watch a well-placed lob drop in behind them for my point, their strategy unrevels fairly quickly and suddenly a sure thing becomes a "what do we do now?" There is nothing wrong with a great lob---it can be every bit as effective as a well-placed second serve or a deftly managed drop shot. I figure any shot that is legal is fair game and if I have worked long and hard enough to make it an effective weapon, dealing with it is my opponent's problem. (Just like I don't apologize when I hit a let-cord that falls over for a winner. My opponents don't apologize when my let-cord falls back on my side, do they?) If you couldn't get to my drop shots, I would drop shot you a lot. If you couldn't return a slice serve, I would slice serve you a lot. And if you struggle against a lob, I would throw them up by the dozens. LOL. Work on improving your overhead---and stop hating on lobbers. LOL.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Interestingly, no one has given the reply I would---that good lobbing is just as much of a skill as good serving. You throw up weak lobs or poorly placed lobs and opponents feed you overheads all night long. I lob a lot, but it's not because all my opponents have weak overheads. I have practiced and developed a very consistent lob that I can hit within a foot of the baseline and right in the corners. A player wants to get aggressive and try to intimidate me by charging the net, especially in doubles, I throw a lob right back over his off shoulder. After he has to slam on the breaks and run backward 4 or 5 times, or he and his partner watch a well-placed lob drop in behind them for my point, their strategy unrevels fairly quickly and suddenly a sure thing becomes a "what do we do now?" There is nothing wrong with a great lob---it can be every bit as effective as a well-placed second serve or a deftly managed drop shot. I figure any shot that is legal is fair game and if I have worked long and hard enough to make it an effective weapon, dealing with it is my opponent's problem. (Just like I don't apologize when I hit a let-cord that falls over for a winner. My opponents don't apologize when my let-cord falls back on my side, do they?) If you couldn't get to my drop shots, I would drop shot you a lot. If you couldn't return a slice serve, I would slice serve you a lot. And if you struggle against a lob, I would throw them up by the dozens. LOL. Work on improving your overhead---and stop hating on lobbers. LOL.

+1.

It's so darn predictable. I serve and stay back. Opponents hit a deep, solid return and come storming in. Unbeknown to them, I had planned to lob the net player with that second ball. Because I too have practiced my lobs, I can hit that shot. After this happens about three times, the opponents have The Conference. They decide in the conference that they will stop coming to net indiscriminately. Then it's Game On.

 

[PushyPushster]

And if you struggle against a lob, I would throw them up by the dozens. LOL. Work on improving your overhead---and stop hating on lobbers. LOL.

Don't get so defensive. I don't hate lobbers - my post was merely venting some frustration at my lack of preparation for defeating them. Heck, I lob a lot myself. Just not quite that good. Anyhow, I'll be interested to see if our strategy works as well when we run into our next group of lobbers.

How would you beat you?

 

[Cindysphinx]

The way to make me stop lobbing is:

Hit your ball short. If I have to make contact at the service line, I probably won't lob.

Or hit a skidding slice. I can't get under a slice well enough to hit a good topspin lob.

 

[rainman007]

We won, 6-2, 6-2. I'd pretend to be Hannibal from the A-Team and say, "I love it when a plan comes together", except we've never actually had a plan come together like this before.

Playing two-back was exactly the right thing to do with these guys. You'd look like an idiot if you lobbed the ball with no one at the net, right? So, instead, we just started exchanging ground strokes which got them out of their game and into ours.

Again, thanks for all the advice. I think the important thing everyone emphasized was to figure out a way to get them out of their comfort zone. We didn't have to try drop shots, slices, or anything else fancy. Starting the points with no one at the net was enough.

since you said you didnt hit real hard they should have drop shot you to bring you in then lob you..
:???:

 

[storypeddler]

Don't get so defensive. I don't hate lobbers - my post was merely venting some frustration at my lack of preparation for defeating them. Heck, I lob a lot myself. Just not quite that good. Anyhow, I'll be interested to see if our strategy works as well when we run into our next group of lobbers.

How would you beat you?

LOL. I'm not defensive---just joking with you. But I'm completely serious about using the lob. It is a very effective and mostly underrated and underused shot. A few deep well-placed lobs are a sure-fire way to make net chargers stop and reconsider their strategy.

Regarding how I would beat me...there are a couple answers. First, if you can, simply overpower me and take the game away from me. I'm more of a counter-punching all-courter and I get to almost every ball, so that is tough, but can be done, especially if I'm playing a much-stronger, higher-rated player. I'm a good 4.0, but a powerful 4.5 with all the strokes will usually put one on me. But if I were another 4.0 playing me, I would give me back my own medicine---lobs for lobs, junk for junk---and be patient and willing to stay out there as long as it takes. I hate playing against backboard players and counter-punchers as much as anyone else does. I have learned over the years that most big hitters and aggressive players feed off of power, so I do everything I can NOT to give them any. I throw lots of balls down in the dirt, dink things back, hit junk volleys, use lobs to drive them back or run them around, give them flat, skidding serves, and never return anything that will set up for them to hit. Even the best players still get very frustrated (as you know) when you refuse to let them play their game. For me, it is partly about skill level and partly a battle of wills---and regardless of the skill level of my opponent, I determine when I step on the court that I'm gonna have the stronger will. I have lost to very good players who were more miserable than I was when they walked off with the win, mumbling to themselves about pushers. LOL. And over the years I have beaten a LOT of players who have a better overall arsenal of shots than I do, but become very vulnerable when I drag them down to my level. Assuming fairly equally-gifted players, there is an answer for every threat---you just have to figure out what it is and how to implement it.

 

[ssonosk]

If you know you suck at overheads fix it.
Spit step and stop your momentum before they hit and high volly or just let it bounce

 

[Ben Hadd]

...in the meantime, don't let them lob. There's a million ways to do this, but what it comes down to is hit them balls that put them in a less-than-comfortable position to hit lobs. As in, hit an approach that makes them move three steps and stretch a lot. As in, maybe hit a heavy ball right at them. As in, hit some short, junky drop shots...most lobbers hate that stuff...you get the joke...

Are you serious? What can't be lobbed back? I just expect people have practiced their overhand

 

[TripleB]

Even the best players still get very frustrated (as you know) when you refuse to let them play their game. For me, it is partly about skill level and partly a battle of wills---and regardless of the skill level of my opponent, I determine when I step on the court that I'm gonna have the stronger will.

The will to win, a good amount of skill, and having the intelligence to frustrate almost any opponent...that's tough to beat, I don't care what level you're playing!!!

TripleB

 

[LuckyR]

Interestingly, no one has given the reply I would---that good lobbing is just as much of a skill as good serving. You throw up weak lobs or poorly placed lobs and opponents feed you overheads all night long. I lob a lot, but it's not because all my opponents have weak overheads. I have practiced and developed a very consistent lob that I can hit within a foot of the baseline and right in the corners. A player wants to get aggressive and try to intimidate me by charging the net, especially in doubles, I throw a lob right back over his off shoulder. After he has to slam on the breaks and run backward 4 or 5 times, or he and his partner watch a well-placed lob drop in behind them for my point, their strategy unrevels fairly quickly and suddenly a sure thing becomes a "what do we do now?" There is nothing wrong with a great lob---it can be every bit as effective as a well-placed second serve or a deftly managed drop shot. I figure any shot that is legal is fair game and if I have worked long and hard enough to make it an effective weapon, dealing with it is my opponent's problem. (Just like I don't apologize when I hit a let-cord that falls over for a winner. My opponents don't apologize when my let-cord falls back on my side, do they?) If you couldn't get to my drop shots, I would drop shot you a lot. If you couldn't return a slice serve, I would slice serve you a lot. And if you struggle against a lob, I would throw them up by the dozens. LOL. Work on improving your overhead---and stop hating on lobbers. LOL.

Your post is true enough but folks with excellent lob skills usually have other great shots too, and therefore are either out of your league (sandbaggers) or have a chronic injury or somesuch thus they can't compete at their significantly higher true skill level anymore and are just slumming at a lower level. In other words if you solve the lob problem against these guys they can easily win with their other shots. You have to run these guys since that is usually their only weakness at the level you are playing them in.

 

[benxten]

Been watching a lot of old guys play and have played agianst some of them. I got whooped the first time I played them in doubles. These guys have weaker groundstrokes but their slices, lobs, and volleys are very efficient. They also dont give you lots of pace which caused me to overhit. I watched these guys play each other and they neutralize each other. For example slices prevent good lobs. Thing is these guys are pretty efficient and consistent with their backhand slices and lobs that you gotta be pretty patient to win. Im starting to have success against them but i have to play patiently and not try to go for winners right away. They love pace as they wont have to put a lot of force in order to hit their lobs and slices.