Gerry Weber Open Halle vs Aegon Championships at Queens Club

[haqq777]

I was reading this article about Rafa Nadal confirming his appearance at the Queens Club this year just now:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...return-aegon-championships-queens-club-tennis

I wanted to know what you guys thought of these Wimbledon tune-ups. I know Fed is all about Halle, Rafa was at Halle for 4 years before switching back to Queens last year. What are the similarities/difference? Courts, crowds, money - everything.

Is it the prestige factor that plays a big role too? I know money is a huge factor (Fed signed a lifetime contract with Gerry Weber and Rafa came back to Queens surely for the '£' I read somewhere as his contract wasnt renewed at Halle). Makes sense from the players perspective to be honest. Both are ranked as ATP 500 events but I can not help but notice everyone talks more about Queens than Halle.

Would like to hear everyones thoughts.

Cheers.

 

[jm1980]

Simple: Fed plays Halle against weak fields every year while the competition is in Queen's.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Queen's Club could use a bigger trophy.

 

[tennis_pro]

So this is why Nadal underperformed at Wimbledon in the last 4 years? Because he played Halle.

 

[haqq777]

So this is why Nadal underperformed at Wimbledon in the last 4 years? Because he played Halle.

I'm telling you. He is winning it this year. Just wait till that DTL starts firing. It's even more special on grass

 

[uliks]

Djokovic is most likely playing Halle also!

 

[jm1980]

So this is why Nadal underperformed at Wimbledon in the last 4 years? Because he played Halle.

Let's look at some facts:

• Fed has defeated one (yes, ONE!) Top 10 player en route to his 8 Halle titles (#5 Safin in 2005)
• #45 Seppi made the final last year and #69 Falla made the final in 2014

This is how the greatest grass courter of our time accumulates grass trophies

 

[Mainad]

Queens has all the prestige of history and of being the original and still chief warm-up event for Wimbledon. Most of the top players have played (and won) there and I think it continues to have a bigger and more impressive draw.

Halle is a very recent rival but has a bigger stadium and more facilities. It also has the permanent presence of Roger Federer (who signed a lifetime contract to play there a few years ago).

 

[haqq777]

Queen's Club could use a bigger trophy.

Ya think?

 

[Mainad]

Djokovic is most likely playing Halle also!

Where have you heard this? Djokovic has not played any ATP grasscourt event since 2010 Queens. He usually just plays a few matches at one of the grass exhos in the week before Wimbledon (Boodles or Hurlingham).

 

[Anaconda]

Federer doesn't play Queens because the conditions at Halle are closer to Wimbledon.


I think that move has worked out well; He has 7 Wimbledon finals and 3 runners up medals.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Queens has all the prestige of history and of being the original and still chief warm-up event for Wimbledon. Most of the top players have played (and won) there and I think it continues to have a bigger and more impressive draw.

Halle is a very recent rival but has a bigger stadium and more facilities. It also has the permanent presence of Roger Federer (who signed a lifetime contract to play there a few years ago).

 

[jm1980]

Where have you heard this? Djokovic has not played any ATP grasscourt event since 2010 Queens. He usually just plays a few matches at one of the grass exhos in the week before Wimbledon (Boodles or Hurlingham).

And that was the last time Djokovic lost to anyone ranked lower than #34

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Was Djok the first to win Wimbledon without a grass warm-up tournament? I truly don't know the answer to that. If so, what a commentary on the state of surface homogenization on the tour.

 

[tennis_pro]

Was Djok the first to win Wimbledon without a grass warm-up tournament? I truly don't know the answer to that. If so, what a commentary on the state of surface homogenization on the tour.

Fed won Wimbledon in 2007 and 2009 without playing Halle.

 

[tennis_pro]

Djokovic is most likely playing Halle also!

Is he now?

 

[Mainad]

Was Djok the first to win Wimbledon without a grass warm-up tournament? I truly don't know the answer to that. If so, what a commentary on the state of surface homogenization on the tour.

No. Borg, for instance, never played at Queens.

 

[jm1980]

Was Djok the first to win Wimbledon without a grass warm-up tournament? I truly don't know the answer to that. If so, what a commentary on the state of surface homogenization on the tour.

Yes, the first since 2009 Federer and 2007 Federer

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Fed won Wimbledon in 2007 and 2009 without playing Halle.

Hm. Both absences are labeled "withdrew due to fatigue." In '09, guess who couldn't win it in Fed's absence, losing to Haas in the final?

 

[Deleted member 743561]

No. Borg, for instance, never played at Queens.

That is so interesting to me. Winning this prestigious title without a warm-up tourney. Wasn't there a lot more grass, generally, on the tour in Borg's day though?

 

[tennis_pro]

Let's look at some facts:

• Fed has defeated one (yes, ONE!) Top 10 player en route to his 8 Halle titles (#5 Safin in 2005)
• #45 Seppi made the final last year and #69 Falla made the final in 2014

This is how the greatest grass courter of our time accumulates grass trophies

 

[jm1980]

That is so interesting to me. Winning this prestigious title without a warm-up tourney. Wasn't there a lot more grass, generally, on the tour in Borg's day though?

The last time Borg played a grass tournament other than Wimbledon was the YEC in 1974

In all the years he reached the final at Wimbledon (76-81) that was the only grass tournament he played all year

 

[jm1980]

 

[tennis_pro]

Dude you were never gonna win this battle:

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Dude you were never gonna win this battle:

haha

 

[jm1980]

Dude you were never gonna win this battle:

Sure, but I don't care if Djoker loses a final to Haas if he can do this

 

[tennis_pro]

Yeah, I don't care if Djoker loses a final to Haas if he can do this

 

[jm1980]

Here you can see Djokovic teaching Federer how to lose gracefully

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Here you can see Djokovic teaching Federer how to lose gracefully

He'll be well-practiced by the time he's going on 35.

 

[tennisaddict]

Let's look at some facts:

• Fed has defeated one (yes, ONE!) Top 10 player en route to his 8 Halle titles (#5 Safin in 2005)
• #45 Seppi made the final last year and #69 Falla made the final in 2014

This is how the greatest grass courter of our time accumulates grass trophies

True . He should really try to get his hands on the Wimbledon trophy.

 

[Fiero425]

Was Djok the first to win Wimbledon without a grass warm-up tournament? I truly don't know the answer to that. If so, what a commentary on the state of surface homogenization on the tour.

I can't ever remember Borg going to Queens! After losing the FO early in the 1/4's to Adriano Panatta, Borg went into seclusion, practiced vigorously on grass and won his first Wimbledon w/o a warm-up event in '76! He skipped FO in '77 and went right to London to get in practice to win his 2nd title! After winning the FO from '78-81, no warm-up before going on to make final after final at AELTC, losing the last to McEnroe in '81! Guess he may have needed that extra bit of work on grass! lol!

 

[Deleted member 743561]

I can't ever remember Borg going to Queens! After losing the FO early in the 1/4's to Adriano Panatta, Borg went into seclusion, practiced vigorously on grass and won his first Wimbledon w/o a warm-up event in '76! He skipped FO in '77 and went right to London to get in practice to win his 2nd title! After winning the FO from '78-81, no warm-up before going on to make final after final at AELTC, losing the last to McEnroe in '81! Guess he may have needed that extra bit of work on grass! lol!

Yeah, apparently that was the case! Didn't play grass warm-up events. It's a wild thing to me, and I'm trying to get my mind around it. Must have been hard to squeeze in really solid practice (who in the world were Borg's lucky practice partners?) with all of the tournaments they played back then. Incidentally, Borg has 64 titles (!!), and retired when he was like 26!

 

[Noelan]

Where have you heard this? Djokovic has not played any ATP grasscourt event since 2010 Queens. He usually just plays a few matches at one of the grass exhos in the week before Wimbledon (Boodles or Hurlingham).

Last summer was news that Garry Weber owners approached to Novak's management to negotiate about his participations in Halle.Still no official confirmation from Novak team.

 

[Fiero425]

Yeah, apparently that was the case! Didn't play grass warm-up events. It's a wild thing to me, and I'm trying to get my mind around it. Must have been hard to squeeze in really solid practice (who in the world were Borg's lucky practice partners?) with all of the tournaments they played back then. Incidentally, Borg has 64 titles (!!), and retired when he was like 26!

He was a winner from the beginning; esp. on clay! IIRC, he went into Wimbledon in the strike year of '73 as a 15 y.o. and was seeded unexpectedly due to so many top players staying away! He had to withstand a lot of pressure at a very young age; long before all the help given these days to the "toddlers" on tour! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 743561]

He was a winner from the beginning; esp. on clay! IIRC, he went into Wimbledon in the strike year of '73 as a 15 y.o. and was seeded unexpectedly due to so many top players staying away! He had to withstand a lot of pressure at a very young age; long before all the help given these days to the "toddlers" on tour! ;-)

Nice one. To hear McEnroe talk about him, he was some kind of invincible mutant on the tennis court.

 

[Fiero425]

Nice one. To hear McEnroe talk about him, he was some kind of invincible mutant on the tennis court.

Well? If you look at the record books, Borg's numbers still persevere after all this time! Even the brilliance of Federer at Wimbledon and the omniscience of Nadal on clay hasn't been able to eliminate or even diminish Bjorn's legacy or legend! As they said back then and to this day, he was the equivalent of a tennis "rock star" and people were elevated by being in his presence! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Well? If you look at the record books, Borg's numbers still persevere after all this time! Even the brilliance of Federer at Wimbledon and the omniscience of Nadal on clay hasn't been able to eliminate or even diminish Bjorn's legacy or legend! As they said back then and to this day, he was the equivalent of a tennis "rock star" and people were elevated by being in his presence! ;-)

Such condensed brilliance. The ratio of success is phenomenal.

 

[Mainad]

The last time Borg played a grass tournament other than Wimbledon was the YEC in 1974

In all the years he reached the final at Wimbledon (76-81) that was the only grass tournament he played all year

He also played the 1974 Australian Open which was still a grasscourt event back then. He lost in the 3rd round. It was the only time he ever played there.

 

[metsman]

Simple: Fed plays Halle against weak fields every year while the competition is in Queen's.

And Djokovic instead skips both "to practice" so he doesn't get shown up on an actual fast surface

We've seen what has happened to Djoker on court 1 Wimby grass the past two years so it's probably best he doesn't play on even faster, slicker grass at the tuneups.

 

[Fiero425]

The last time Borg played a grass tournament other than Wimbledon was the YEC in 1974.

In all the years he reached the final at Wimbledon (76-81) that was the only grass tournament he played all year

I watched that final in Melbourne on TV with Vilas and Nastase! All expected "The Master" to be Ilie who pretty much owned the tournament during his era! It was one event where he could sustain a loss or disqualification and still make the semi and move onto the final winning it 4 of 5 times during it's inception when it still moved around the world and changed surfaces! Vilas was just ripping the ball while Nastase was at net! He couldn't put the ball away and Guillermo muscled his way to a Master YEC in 5 sets! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 743561]

I watched that final in Melbourne on TV with Vilas and Nastase! All expected "The Master" to be Ilie who pretty much owned the tournament during his era! It was one event where he could sustain a loss or disqualification and still make the semi and move onto the final winning it 4 of 5 times during it's inception when it still moved around the world and changed surfaces! Vilas was just ripping the ball while Nastase was at net! He couldn't put the ball away and Guillermo muscled his way to a Master YEC in 5 sets! ;-)

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Vilas never won RG (how the...?), but did win USO on clay! Any consolation to him? Got a clay major at least.

 

[Fiero425]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Vilas never won RG (how the...?), but did win USO on clay! Any consolation to him? Got a clay major at least.

Why do you say that? Vilas won Paris in '77; the one year Borg decided to skip the tournament! He beat his pigeon, Brian Gottfried in the final! lol! As a matter of fact, Vilas won 2 majors that season and still wasn't #1 in the world; like Nole long after him, he played 3rd banana to Borg and Connors! The story goes that Ion Tiriac who managed Vilas tried to pump up his ranking by playing a lot of clay events on what was considered the B Tour; Orange NJ among others where he would be the top seed and the elite players went on to GP events more prestigious! He won a lot of those summer clay events, taking well over 100 victories, but he was still #3 seed @ USO and would normally have to go through both Borg and Connors! Fortunately for him, Bjorn hurt his shoulder and retired from a match with Dick Stockton! Vilas went on to defeat Connors in the final in 4! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Why do you say that? Vilas won Paris in '77; the one year Borg decided to skip the tournament! He beat his pigeon, Brian Gottfried in the final! lol! As a matter of fact, Vilas won 2 majors that season and still wasn't #1 in the world; like Nole long after him, he played 3rd banana to Borg and Connors! ;-)

Oh! Well I knew it was a low number at least! He's got the most wins on clay, so I doubt he can possibly be satisfied with 1 title there, especially after Nadal won 9.

 

[Fiero425]

Oh! Well I knew it was a low number at least! He's got the most wins on clay, so I doubt he can possibly be satisfied with 1 title there, especially after Nadal won 9.

His nemesis at the time was Bjorn; and few beat the clay god on his home surface! As a matter of fact, he only lost to 1 person at the FO twice; Adriano Panatta! Borg owned all the others and Vilas more than others; maybe dropping 4 or 5 matches in 20+ contests! ;-)

 

[haqq777]

So to summarize, in terms of prize money, Queens offers 100K Euros more (according to ATP website). Facility wise Halle is a bigger and newer stadium. More stars participate in Queens, however, Roger Federer participates at Halle. And obviously Queens has a richer history and prestige factor associated with it. I read above that Halle surface and conditions are more like Wimbledon as compared to Queen? How come?

Cheers

 

[duaneeo]

Fed plays Halle against weak fields every year while the competition is in Queen's.

Those who want to possibly face Federer at a grass warmup tournament play Halle. Those who don't want to face Federer play the other tournament.

 

[haqq777]

Those who want to possibly face Federer at a grass warmup tournament play Halle. Those who don't want to face Federer play the other tournament.

That's one way to put it

 

[Shaolin]

Queen's Club could use a bigger trophy.

Inferiority complex to Wimbledon.

 

[newpball]

I was reading this article about Rafa Nadal confirming his appearance at the Queens Club this year just now:

I suspect he will play one match......

 

[newpball]

Queens has a richer history and prestige factor associated with it.

What rich history and prestige factor are you talking about.
It's just a warm up Mickey Mouse tournament for the big one!