My 10 year old daughter has started working with a new coach.He has changed her grip and her takeback.She went from having one of the biggest forehands of any 10 year old to now she is having trouble controling the ball.She has done really well this summer in the 12 and under division.I WAS JUST WANDERING DO YOU GUYS THINK I SHOULD KEEP HER OUT OF TOURNAMENTS FOR A WHILE AND LET HER WORK ON THIS OR SHOULD I CONTINUE TO LET HER PLAY??Im just not wanting to hurt her confidence by putting her into competition to quick after such a drastic change.I am also concerned that if i put her in tournaments now she might revert back to her old ways.
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grip change and technique change
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floridatennisdude
Hall of Fame
Scale her back some, but don't keep her out too long. If she is playing 2 tourneys a month, drop back to one per month for the next three months. It takes some time to create new habits, but there are also match play and pressure situations to keep honed.
I know this is so hard. My son who had one of the bigger forehands and serves at 10 had his stroke adjusted. Came home in tears from the first practice. The DI (top 10) men's coach in town filmed him hitting before the changes and took him aside and told him "I am not telling you to change, I am just telling you it is not going to work the way you are hitting." My son would start to argue and the coach would interrupt him and say "Leave it but it's not going to work".
A week later still upset the DI Women's coach told him to quit his whinning and go hit a thousand balls. Did he think he would go off to college and the coach was never going to adjust his game?
Needless to say - he never whines about adjustments anymore.
A week later still upset the DI Women's coach told him to quit his whinning and go hit a thousand balls. Did he think he would go off to college and the coach was never going to adjust his game?
Needless to say - he never whines about adjustments anymore.
Oh - and the question you asked about playing - He played his regular schedule. There is nothing like a tournament to 1) see if they will continue using it rather than reverting back 2) to see if any other adjustments need to be made when in non-sterile (ball machine) conditions.
At the rate she is going on the ball machine - I would think that 2 weeks and she ought to be ready to test it out.
At the rate she is going on the ball machine - I would think that 2 weeks and she ought to be ready to test it out.
Oh - and the question you asked about playing - He played his regular schedule. There is nothing like a tournament to 1) see if they will continue using it rather than reverting back 2) to see if any other adjustments need to be made when in non-sterile (ball machine) conditions.
At the rate she is going on the ball machine - I would think that 2 weeks and she ought to be ready to test it out.
Shes gotta tournament in Alabama in two weeks.I guess i will keep her in it.Might as well see if she will continue to do it right even in the heat of battle.
I guess my first question is why was her grip changed. On previous post you had mentioned that Macci had no problems with her grip, so why the change now.
My daughter also plays with a full western. I also had some long term concerns in her using that grip but she hits a good heavy ball and is very good at adjusting her grip to hit slices and low balls. She is currently training under Johan Kriek in Charllote and he has no problems with it. Basically he says that normally he would never teach that grip but if he sees it works well for someone with no glitches that may lead to arm problems down the road then why change it. To twink it in any way would require her to stay out of competition for at least a couple of months so that the change becomes ingrained and therefore she would not revert to old grip, especially under tighter playing conditions. As of now we have no reason to make any changes, she's comfortable with it and so is Kriek. He felt that she drives through the ball very well and the grip did not effect her ability to handle low balls or hit slice FH since she is able to change it quickly without a problem.
In either case, since this is a recent change and she is just aging up to the 12's it does not make any sense to rush into any tournament play at this time. Why risk undoing what the coach has been working on and having her lose confidence in her abilities. Don"t rush things, be patient, keep working on the changes and have it 100 % ingrained. perhaps test it out by playing some lower level tournament where competition is weak but don"t put her in any situation where she may revert, even partially and have begin questioning her abilities.
My daughter also plays with a full western. I also had some long term concerns in her using that grip but she hits a good heavy ball and is very good at adjusting her grip to hit slices and low balls. She is currently training under Johan Kriek in Charllote and he has no problems with it. Basically he says that normally he would never teach that grip but if he sees it works well for someone with no glitches that may lead to arm problems down the road then why change it. To twink it in any way would require her to stay out of competition for at least a couple of months so that the change becomes ingrained and therefore she would not revert to old grip, especially under tighter playing conditions. As of now we have no reason to make any changes, she's comfortable with it and so is Kriek. He felt that she drives through the ball very well and the grip did not effect her ability to handle low balls or hit slice FH since she is able to change it quickly without a problem.
In either case, since this is a recent change and she is just aging up to the 12's it does not make any sense to rush into any tournament play at this time. Why risk undoing what the coach has been working on and having her lose confidence in her abilities. Don"t rush things, be patient, keep working on the changes and have it 100 % ingrained. perhaps test it out by playing some lower level tournament where competition is weak but don"t put her in any situation where she may revert, even partially and have begin questioning her abilities.
I guess my first question is why was her grip changed. On previous post you had mentioned that Macci had no problems with her grip, so why the change now.
My daughter also plays with a full western. I also had some long term concerns in her using that grip but she hits a good heavy ball and is very good at adjusting her grip to hit slices and low balls. She is currently training under Johan Kriek in Charllote and he has no problems with it. Basically he says that normally he would never teach that grip but if he sees it works well for someone with no glitches that may lead to arm problems down the road then why change it. To twink it in any way would require her to stay out of competition for at least a couple of months so that the change becomes ingrained and therefore she would not revert to old grip, especially under tighter playing conditions. As of now we have no reason to make any changes, she's comfortable with it and so is Kriek. He felt that she drives through the ball very well and the grip did not effect her ability to handle low balls or hit slice FH since she is able to change it quickly without a problem.
In either case, since this is a recent change and she is just aging up to the 12's it does not make any sense to rush into any tournament play at this time. Why risk undoing what the coach has been working on and having her lose confidence in her abilities. Don"t rush things, be patient, keep working on the changes and have it 100 % ingrained. perhaps test it out by playing some lower level tournament where competition is weak but don"t put her in any situation where she may revert, even partially and have begin questioning her abilities.
Her new coach has coached at least 5 women who were all top 100 in the world.He has been around womens professional tennis for 20 years and he thinks that the grip has gotta change.He thinks she is limited with that grip.I fought it for the past two years but i said to myself think big picture.
Her new coach has coached at least 5 women who were all top 100 in the world.He has been around womens professional tennis for 20 years and he thinks that the grip has gotta change.He thinks she is limited with that grip.I fought it for the past two years but i said to myself think big picture.
How do you and your daughter like this new coach? I think I know who you are talking about. Their daughter and son are great juniors. They know how to develop tennis pros esp. women.
Is your daughter going to be homeschooled this year or you will be bringing her to Atlanta and work with him in blocked sessions?
Her new coach has coached at least 5 women who were all top 100 in the world.He has been around womens professional tennis for 20 years and he thinks that the grip has gotta change.He thinks she is limited with that grip.I fought it for the past two years but i said to myself think big picture.
can i ask..
from what grip to what grip? western->semi? or cont->eastern?
How do you and your daughter like this new coach? I think I know who you are talking about. Their daughter and son are great juniors. They know how to develop tennis pros esp. women.
Is your daughter going to be homeschooled this year or you will be bringing her to Atlanta and work with him in blocked sessions?
We are doing EVERYTHING we can do to get up there so she can train full time with him and do the homeschool program.Right now we are going up every other weekend to train with him.She spent two of the last 3 weeks with him but now school is starting back.I have worked with Nick spent time with Macci and i have NEVER been as impressed as i was with her new coach.He is AMAZING!!!!!!He has taken numerous players from age 8 to the pro tour.We might be talking about two different people.His son is a little boy just getting into tennis.
can i ask..
from what grip to what grip? western->semi? or cont->eastern?
EXTREME FULL WESTERN TO SEMI WESTERN
EXTREME FULL WESTERN TO SEMI WESTERN
i think your coach is doing the right thing. changing from full western to anything less is very difficult as the kid gets older. I myself know that feeling.
We are doing EVERYTHING we can do to get up there so she can train full time with him and do the homeschool program.Right now we are going up every other weekend to train with him.She spent two of the last 3 weeks with him but now school is starting back.I have worked with Nick spent time with Macci and i have NEVER been as impressed as i was with her new coach.He is AMAZING!!!!!!He has taken numerous players from age 8 to the pro tour.We might be talking about two different people.His son is a little boy just getting into tennis.
I was thinking about the Boulais that just moved to Atlanta. Yves recently helped coaching Bouchard who just won girl junior wimbledon and is winning now on the women's tour. Yves' daughter just won a gold ball in double G12 clay. She is probably 11. Their son is younger.
I was thinking about the Boulais that just moved to Atlanta. Yves recently helped coaching Bouchard who just won girl junior wimbledon and is winning now on the women's tour. Yves' daughter just won a gold ball in double G12 clay. She is probably 11. Their son is younger.
Not him.This guys coached numerous pros.His players have over 90 pro titles and 30 plus gold balls.
Not him.This guys coached numerous pros.His players have over 90 pro titles and 30 plus gold balls.
Yes. Atlanta has lots of great coaches, otherwise there wouldn't be Ginepri, Oudin, Donald Young, Grace Min etc. I was just surprised that you said amazing and more impressive than Nick B. and Macci.
Yes. Atlanta has lots of great coaches, otherwise there wouldn't be Ginepri, Oudin, Donald Young, Grace Min etc. I was just surprised that you said amazing and more impressive than Nick B. and Macci.
I thought Macci was great for young kids 8 and under.I think Nick is a great motivator and good with older kids.This guy knows the WHOLE process from 8 to the WTA.Im serious i have never been so impressed with someone in my life.This guy is the best ive been around hands down.
I think I know who it might be. It sounds like its heath waters out of Atlanta. I like a lot of what he teaches. He has a very good website with good info called virtual tennis academy. I know several of his players and one odd thing is that a few of them are taught is to either play 2 hands on both sides or to play with all forehands (switch hit), including his young daughter which I don"t like but otherwise I like what I see and hear from his website.
I think I know who it might be. It sounds like its heath waters out of Atlanta. I like a lot of what he teaches. He has a very good website with good info called virtual tennis academy. I know several of his players and one odd thing is that a few of them are taught is to either play 2 hands on both sides or to play with all forehands (switch hit), including his young daughter which I don"t like but otherwise I like what I see and hear from his website.
At first i wasnt so sure about the two forehands and the serving with both hands but if you listen to his reasoning you will understand.I havent seen any of his kids hit two handed forehands and backhands tho.He is got to be one of the greatest minds in tennis.If you ever get a chance to sit down and talk tennis with him you will be blown away.
I also think he makes a lot of sense. I especially like his emphasis on early preparation and proper weight transference for maintaining good baseline consistency and power and also his views on footwork recovery. The son (coy) of one of his assistant coaches played this past weekend on my daughters team at the zonals in Knoxville. He hits two forehands. The kid is very talented and has very good hands. However, he did struggles some with other boys that hit hard and the one's that take the ball early. That's one of the main drawbacks of switching hands. I can"t imagine any girls being able to do this as well.
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Eastern grip is coming back. Much easier to redirect the ball and take it early on the rise. Game is changing to where spin will simply not be enough. Whoever takes the ball earlier and keeps it lower will win...
I dont agree with that.Watch the pros play everything loaded with spin and high over the net.
I dont agree with that.Watch the pros play everything loaded with spin and high over the net.
That maybe in the aging or current pros. I am watching the qualifiers for the Open and all these young guns future stars just flatten the ball out. Its about how fast you get the ball from point a to point b. The flatter the ball is the more chance you've got to put your opponent on the run. It's easier to teach kids to spin and keep the ball in. Its a lot hardr to hit flat hard and keep the ball in that is why only the few select do it now but I've been traveling around prominent clubs and working with a few private coaches which are turning back to eastern, history repeats itself...
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
I dont agree with that.Watch the pros play everything loaded with spin and high over the net.
Agreed. The execution shot may be a flat ball but a typical rally ball from a Fed or Nole has shape. Spin it to win it!
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What he says is true in a sense. High-level juniors do not hit moonball loops. They close the racket face and hit through the ball with both speed and pace. At the pro level, someone like Sod, DP or Rosol can hit through Fed or Nadal on a good day. Whether that is a good thing or not really cannot be debated because these players are not overall as good as the top 3. But a tall powerful player would be foolish to use much spin when he can wipe the opponent of the court with flatter shots. Flat always wins by clinching the point, though spin can be a better overall strategy.
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Alohajrtennis
Semi-Pro
There's a time to spin it and time to flatten it out. Need to be able to do both, and deal with both coming from your opponent. Semi-western is the grip that best enables you to do both. There is not going to be a wholesale shift back to eastern, although I am sure some people will try it.
I also think he makes a lot of sense. I especially like his emphasis on early preparation and proper weight transference for maintaining good baseline consistency and power and also his views on footwork recovery. The son (xxx) of one of his assistant coaches played this past weekend on my daughters team at the zonals in Knoxville. He hits two forehands. The kid is very talented and has very good hands. However, he did struggles some with other boys that hit hard and the one's that take the ball early. That's one of the main drawbacks of switching hands. I can"t imagine any girls being able to do this as well.
Very curious what the advantage would be of having 2 forehands versus developing a strong backhand.
It seems any advantage would be eliminated by the extra time it takes to switch hands.
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What he says is true in a sense. High-level juniors do not hit moonball loops. They close the racket face and hit through the ball with both speed and pace. At the pro level, someone like Sod, DP or Rosol can hit through Fed or Nadal on a good day. Whether that is a good thing or not really cannot be debated because these players are not overall as good as the top 3. But a tall powerful player would be foolish to use much spin when he can wipe the opponent of the court with flatter shots. Flat always wins by clinching the point, though spin can be a better overall strategy.
Like I said select few can do it. If you need spin you can do it with eastern and if you need to hit a big flat shot the best grip is eastern. It's not given to everyone, but Eastern is definitely making a comeback..
Wow, I have to alert Macci, Bangoura, Kriek, Saviano, Sanchez Casal, Wegner, Lansdorp and the rest about this new flat ball stuff. They are teaching it all wrong.
Now if we can just change the laws of physics........
I am not sure I know any players that have been developed lately by these guys. I know the older ones the ones they developed 20 yrs ago Serena, Venus, etc...I don't know of anyone within last 10 yrs although I bet thousands of kids wen't through the likes of Macci etc...
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Its not like long hair on boys making a comeback. The technology has changed.
Today's equipment allows for amazing spin and control. Amazing passing shots. Top guys can not come to the net as much as they did 30 years ago because they will be passed more often.
Its physics. You hit flat you have a lower margin for error. At the top of the men's game, an inch matters. A few errors makes the difference.
If you are the flat game will come back and replace the topspin game among the top men, I do not agree.
I agree to disagree...
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Okay fine. Can you tell us the top coaches today who are advocating returning to eastern flat forehands? Any You Tube videos we can view?
Here is 1 video of
Roger Federer's Forehand Grip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXcsblS3Jl4
Turns out that Federer uses an eastern forehand grip
Agreed. The execution shot may be a flat ball but a typical rally ball from a Fed or Nole has shape. Spin it to win it!
Agree 100%
Here is 1 video of
Roger Federer's Forehand Grip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXcsblS3Jl4
Turns out that Federer uses an eastern forehand grip
roger is one of few at the top level that can hit flat and spin with an easter grip but thats becasue he's roger. Majority will still use semi western. i'll go with TFC on this one.
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Alohajrtennis
Semi-Pro
Fed uses the grip yet his average forehand generates 2700 rpms. Thats way more than Sampras at 1700.
Fed happens to be able to generate tons of spin while using that grip. But Fed is not hitting a flat ball by any stretch. Fed's backhand has the highest rpms ever measured at 5300. He does that to bring the ball down in the court.
Tennis at that level weeds out what does not work. Flat works in certain situations, but topspin is what is used the majority of the time. Top ATP players need spin to bring their wicked shots down in bounds. The perfect blend of spin and pace, coupled with today's technology, makes it hard to see the game returning to a flat forehand game.
Read the comments on the video. I have read elsewhere that Roger has said he uses his own grip, not eastern but not quite semi-western.
Also, its not out of the realm of possibility to for kids to adjust there grip based on there opponent, conditions, etc. Many kids do it instinctively. They switch between forehand, backhand and volley grip during a point, so using slightly different forehand grips is not asking too much. It's rather easy to switch between semi-western and eastern, more so than a full western.
Regardless of which grip(s) you use, hitting flat all the time is just a bad idea in my .02. The best must be able to hit flat and heavy top spin, and need to find a grip or grips that enable them to so.
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Tennis_Stringman
Rookie
Sampras also had an Eastern grip and he didn't have too much trouble with the topspinners. He hit a very forceful ball from point A to B. Many of the NYC Russian juniors hit with an Eastern forehand.
chalkflewup
Hall of Fame
Pistol was arguably the GOAT and his serve made him almost impossible to beat. Conversely, Nadal has had an average little career hitting with spin. So throw Flat Pete and Rafa out and name 10 top "current" pros hitting a flat ball having success against topspinners.Sampras also had an Eastern grip and he didn't have too much trouble with the topspinners. He hit a very forceful ball from point A to B. Many of the NYC Russian juniors hit with an Eastern forehand.
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