Here is how to WIN in every match, yes I'm serious

[Ash_Smith]

^^^yeah, i'm looking forward to that one. In fairness, if his kid can hit drop shots barely over the net off a baseline "trading ball" from a top level player then he's destined for the pro's! Or he's like one of those football (soccer to those over the pond!) skills guys, who can do all the keepie-uppies in the world but can't actually play football!

 

[sundaypunch]

Do you guys realize that they recently legalized marijuana in Washington state?

 

[tennis_balla]

Whats going on here, thread died and OP ran away!

 

[rkelley]

I have to say he has a point. Players my age and younger lose to older guys who love to hack, slick, lob (constantly), super good defense, volley, etc. because the shot difference mixes them up. I get really close sets with my uncle for that reason bc while I'm slamming them corner to corner, he pops a super high lob on the baseline. He doesn't do it all the time but only when on the defense. Its a good strategy that I hope to incorporate into my game. The OLD MAN's GAME! lolol

The general gist of Mick's post seems like "one should be able to volley." OK, I'll agree with that. But I don't think this is a modern/traditional game thing. When I was playing 3.5 (C) tournaments in N. California in the late 80's most players couldn't volley, or S&V - even in doubles.

When I started playing back in the age of wood racquets I hated volleying. I learned to volley because I had this huge serve (relative to my peers at the time) that would generate these weak returns that I was unable to use to my advantage because I was standing back at the baseline. So I learned. Eventally I figured out that I could beat people like your uncle just by going McEnroe on them. You didn't have to volley very well, you just had to go up to the net, stick your racquet out, and angle off the slowish, no pace balls. An overhead took care of the lobbing.

I'm older now but I play at a significantly higher level than I did when I was younger. I think Balla's comment is right on for today's game. When someone can stand on the baseline and using modern technique rip a 70 mph forehand dtl off a decent low and deep approach, it gets a bit daunting to keep coming in. You have to pick and choose much more wisely than in the past. I often go for a lot more on my approach then I used to - using modern technique - to mostly win the point with that shot as opposed to letting the volley win the point. I've also found that because I'm willing to hit big from mid court it sets up more traditional approaches when I go that route. I still get my head ripped off some times.

So my take is that modern tennis does not mean there's no mid-court or net game. But one has to pick and choose their spots a bit more than in the past.

 

[rkelley]

Whats going on here, thread died and OP ran away!

Hey Balla, I'll take you on. I'll take Ash on too. You'll kill me. Understand? You'll both absolutely kill me!

Wait . . . that doesn't sound any where near as threatening.

 

[Ashley D]

hate debating emotional women who can't use logic.

Wow Mick, you're arrogant, narcissistic, uneducated AND a mysogenist.

You've now taken the mantle as the biggest dusch on TT. Congrats, you've earned it.

The person I truly feel sorry for is your son.

 

[onehandbh]

Look up Justin Bower, I can take him anytime I'm in shape, played him, he's nothing, just a relaxed baseliner, no heart, nothing, I use a smaller racquet, 90 than he does and I don't MISS!

I assume this is the Justin Bower you are referring to?
http://avtennis.com/trainers/justinbower.php

Did you beat him in a set? a match? tournament?

You sound like you might be one of the highest level players on TW.
I'll actually be in your neck of the woods in the Seattle/Bellevue area in
early July. Let's meet up for some tennis!

 

[tennis ratchet]

I assume this is the Justin Bower you are referring to?
http://avtennis.com/trainers/justinbower.php

Did you beat him in a set? a match? tournament?

You sound like you might be one of the highest level players on TW.
I'll actually be in your neck of the woods in the Seattle/Bellevue area in
early July. Let's meet up for some tennis!

i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

 

[onehandbh]

i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

I'm not the least bit irritated. Just looking for good players to hit with
when I visit the Seattle/Bellevue area.

 

[The Meat]

At the 4.5 level and below, you can play a very stamina based pushing style and win a majority of your matches. True story.

 

[tennis ratchet]

I'm not the least bit irritated. Just looking for good players to hit with
when I visit the Seattle/Bellevue area.

oops sorry about that! the quote in your post just seemed so over the top.

 

[HunterST]

What happens if two people who have read this thread play each other?

 

[Relinquis]

What happens if two people who have read this thread play each other?

the first two minutes of this i think are a good idea...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV5zzgSaC70

 

[onehandbh]

oops sorry about that! the quote in your post just seemed so over the top.

I visit the Pacific Northwest from time to time + I sometimes try to
meet up with other TW posters to play tennis.

People sometimes make all kinds of claims, but it's the internet, so I
take everything with block of salt.

btw, I once hit a single serve that had such an extreme awesomeness
quotient that I'm pretty sure most ATP pros would have struggled to
return it. It was a weird edge of the frame serve that traveled through
the air in a ~50mph speed over the net with about 4 feet of net
clearance. Once it landed, it just shot sideways about 5 feet to the right
and only about a foot off the ground. Once in a lifetime serve.
Can't touch that.

 

[beernutz]

I don't think this thread will get as much attention as your "sissies" one,
but we'll see how it shakes out. Best of luck, though.

Great avatar picture. I actually saw them on that concert tour in Birmingham AL on May 29, 1978. Front row seats baby! Best concert I ever saw and I saw the Stones, Who, Allman Brothers, and the Dead in the 70s.

 

[tennis_balla]

Having thought about "Tips" for some time, I believe I have the answer. Yes, you must be in shape, yes, you must practice non stop, but the answer is easy.

Look at all the advice solicited on this forum. Most people DON'T KNOW. Even the good players are not sure.

ALWAYS DO THE OPPOSITE! ALWAYS. Think! Guy practice the so called "Modern Game", that only means they can't handle mid-court or the net, they were TRAINED to dictact from the baseline.

Likewise, if you find, which is rare, a true SV learn baseline play.

Do you still believe this to be true Mick?

One last thing, these "gurus", who show you algebraic charts have no clue, yea they seem impressive, but they can't factor in desire, intellect, the emotions of fear and joy, so they should be dismissed.

Who made dozu and toly gurus now and why wasn't I aware of this? This is the equivalent of getting an Oscar here at Talk Tennis. Hopefully, one day my time will come *sigh*

 

[sureshs]

Do like what MR. Miogy said "YOUR BEST TENNIS IS NOT LEARNED BUT IS INSIDE YOU"

Tennis is simply transferring the mind into the body,

I have no tennis inside me or in my mind.

 

[tennis ratchet]

People sometimes make all kinds of claims, but it's the internet, so I take everything with block of salt.

true dat.

i followed the other thread but i never saw the quotes here and below, hilarious.

 

[onehandbh]

Who made dozu and toly gurus now and why wasn't I aware of this? This is the equivalent of getting an Oscar here at Talk Tennis. Hopefully, one day my time will come *sigh*

I think the problem is that the tips you give to posters are too practical
and usable to improve their game.

I suggest using lots of words and technical terms sprinkled in your
posts:

You need to obfuscate the solution and bring tangential principals
that involve modern physics and angular momentum on a quantum
level. Gauss' Law is something most people are not taking into
consideration when hitting a tennis ball. Plus, swing weight 7, which
is based on the density and how magnetized the material in the
racquet head is at 12 o'clock makes a huge difference. There's no
point in recording yourself unless you use 3d cameras recording at
4000 fps. That's the only way to see whether you index finger moved
0.1mm at contact.

OR use a catch phrase that will solve all problems:

"Down and out" is the key to never losing in tennis. If your missing
the ball, swing down and out and you can hit it as hard or soft as
you want and your opponent will feel "down and out."

 

[tennis_balla]

I think the problem is that the tips you give to posters are too practical
and usable to improve their game.

I suggest using lots of words and technical terms sprinkled in your
posts:

You need to obfuscate the solution and bring tangential principals
that involve modern physics and angular momentum on a quantum
level. Gauss' Law is something most people are not taking into
consideration when hitting a tennis ball. Plus, swing weight 7, which
is based on the density and how magnetized the material in the
racquet head is at 12 o'clock makes a huge difference. There's no
point in recording yourself unless you use 3d cameras recording at
4000 fps. That's the only way to see whether you index finger moved
0.1mm at contact.

OR use a catch phrase that will solve all problems:

"Down and out" is the key to never losing in tennis. If your missing
the ball, swing down and out and you can hit it as hard or soft as
you want and your opponent will feel "down and out."

Genius, pure genius.

 

[Mick3391]

Actually you may be a little over the top, but I have to think there is some truth to what you are saying.

Waaaaay over the top. Once every couple of months I drink beer, then I put up a crazy post and totally embarrass myself.

 

[Mick3391]

Modern game includes no mid-court or net play?
Wrong.

Mick you need to do some research into what top academies and coaches are teaching. The reason why most players have abandoned the net isn't because they don't know how to volley, or cannot handle mid-court balls. It is because its not a high percentage play anymore to come to the net constantly at a high level. A player is too vulnerable up there. Also, instead of coming to the net players finish a lot of points mid-court. Current players are better in the mid-court then 20-30 years ago. They are hitting harder, stronger shots, more angles, etc from there.

Coaches nowadays teach all aspects of the game, its ridiculous how complete a lot of training programs are. All areas of the court are covered, all tactical situations etc. At Sanchez-Casal for example they pay as much attention to net play as they do to mid-court and baseline play. The reason why players choose to play at the baseline is because that is the nature of the game now and their best shot at winning. It isn't the coaches forcing kids to play only from the back.

If there was any loop hole, anything missed it would be covered and used a long time ago. Top players look for any advantage they can get and coaches scout, analyze, and teach the best way they can for their students to win. Also, you cannot force a player who is comfortable and has the mentality to play at the baseline to all of a sudden expect them to become serve and volley'ers, it just doesn't work that way.

I understand man, I just don't drink, so when I do everything comes out, like once every 3 months.

My view is still that baseliners, as great as they can be, miss out on a lot of tennis by staying away from mid court and the net. I'm not the only one who holds this view, many think the same way.

I see it all the time, I play hours upon hours each week, and see guys who look like killers from the baseline, totally fall apart when they are out of their groove, that is forced up short.

With slow courts not going away, I agree it's probably wise to focus more on baseline, but I see no problem in learning all aspects of tennis, who knows they may speed courts up again.

 

[Mick3391]

i honestly don't understand why people feel the need to boast on the internet..a former atp pro was nice enough to play with the guy, and now according to this guy he is 'nothing'. i don't blame you for getting irritated.

It's called being drunk and stupid. I have all the respect in the world for Justin, I've stated on this forum he'd destroy me.

 

[Mick3391]

You've seen Balla hit right? Because, you know, he's pretty good!

Oh, and what about when you play people like me, who know exactly how to deal with a short sidespin shot or a "low left angled shot"?

I understand most piling on me in a stupid post, but you? I thought you were like most men who once in awhile screw up and get drunk, didn't know you were a saint.

I'm TIRED of people questioning my abilities, as if I'm a liar. You of all people can rate someone in your profession, so as you know, now I'm not even into gear one, but no matter the pain I'm going to film myself, and be at your mercy to give me a rating.

 

[Relinquis]

all court tennis works... as Haas showed us at Delray, IW and Miami. Federer has shown us this for over a decade.

Dimitrov displays this occasionally as well.

 

[Mick3391]

all court tennis works... as Haas showed us at Delray, IW and Miami. Federer has shown us this for over a decade.

Dimitrov displays this occasionally as well.

And.....If they slow down courts, what then? That is really been my mantra since I've been here.

I read some great articles about how unfair, if you will, things have been for Fed. Here's a guy who worships Sampras, plays like him, then they slow down courts BIG TIME, giving huge advantage to baseliners. It's a testament to Fed that he could adapt. In the articles they were saying it's like training to play basketball, then all of a sudden raising the net by 2 feet, or putting the homerun line out 100 feet, it's changing the rules.

So in regards to my son, it's not complicated, perhaps I've complicated it, but we play enough to where I want him to be able to be adept at ALL PARTS of tennis. I remember being shocked when a commentator said about the then number one Djokovich, "He can't play at net". I mean I get criticized for echoing what experts say.

If they slow down courts, AND let's say my son knows mid court/net, won't he have a huge advantage?

So yea my points have not been communicated well, but that's all I'm saying. And despite my critics, I have SEEN IT. We have many more videos coming so you have to trust me until we see them, but again 28 year old guy, plays year round here, started younger than Mick, and Mick kicked his butt, the guy was so frustrated he looked over to his wife next to me and said basically "What do I do with this".

All I'm saying is we should know all aspects, that's all.

 

[Relinquis]

all court means you can build points from the baseline, but you can also come in and close points out at the net.

check out the link from my current sig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDqnkLJ9BtM

 

[Mick3391]

all court means you can build points from the baseline, but you can also come in and close points out at the net.

check out the link from my current sig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDqnkLJ9BtM

Of course, that's my entire point.

Definitions should be in order as language gets twisted. All court to ME simply means you CAN PLAY the same behind the baseline, mid court, or net.

My POINT is that most, and I've simply seen it over and over, and yea anecdotal evidence isn't proof, but most these days FOCUS SOLELY on the baseline, and ignore the other points.

So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

 

[Mick3391]

Watch this video, and more important listen to the commentary, tell me how they disagree with me in anyway. Incredible that experts can agree with me, yet learners here criticize what I say;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFRDYJjQKkY

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

you don't seem to grasp the fundamental point that tennis academies teach all court tennis and leave it up to the players when they go out on the tour.

that's why someone like Juan Monaco can spend years at the Spanish academies and come out with a 1HBH and a S&V game. that's just how he plays.

It's also why Nadal and Ferrer, for example, have such beautiful volley technique on the rare occasions you get to see them use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFQu8fnAOck

Also, and I understand that beer is bad, look at the link in Tennis_Balla's signature and ask yourself if this guy really couldn't handle a spinning short ball? (yes, that's him in the foreground)

 

[tennis ratchet]

So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

i have a hard time keeping people straight on message boards but i've read alot of posts here stating this same thought, and i think they're all from you... i have to tell you i have no idea what you're talking about.

here on the east coast no one has stopped teaching how to volleys, how to hit an approach shot, how to handle a passing shot, low volley, any of it... i have a hard time believing that anyone woudl pay someone for lessons without teaching them this essential part of the game..

just about everyone i play with will take the net on a short ball.. a few s&v, but you have to have a big, big serve.

i don't know anyone who has their strategic mind blown by an opponent taking the net to hit a volley..

i gotta wonder about who youre playing with, that makes you think taking the net is revolutionary.. things must be a lot different where you are..

but good on you for manning up for those other posts anyway.

you don't seem to grasp the fundamental point that tennis academies teach all court tennis and leave it up to the players when they go out on the tour.)

yes

 

[Mick3391]

i have a hard time keeping people straight on message boards but i've read alot of posts here stating this same thought, and i think they're all from you... i have to tell you i have no idea what you're talking about.

here on the east coast no one has stopped teaching how to volleys, how to hit an approach shot, how to handle a passing shot, low volley, any of it... i have a hard time believing that anyone woudl pay someone for lessons without teaching them this essential part of the game..

just about everyone i play with will take the net on a short ball.. a few s&v, but you have to have a big, big serve.

i don't know anyone who has their strategic mind blown by an opponent taking the net to hit a volley..

i gotta wonder about who youre playing with, that makes you think taking the net is revolutionary.. things must be a lot different where you are..

but good on you for manning up for those other posts anyway.



yes

You may want to keep more up. Tennis experts today will point out that slower courts=baseline play, I would think this is most basic, and you should not listen just to me, but all of the others on this forum who will agree with me.

I can't say "Oh, on the east side or the US they don't teach all", but it's clear from your responses that they don't if you understand what really they are teaching.

The bottom line, and it's logical, is that since courts have slowed down, today Wimbledon is slower than RS used to be, to only teach "Modern Game", I say yes, it's true that is what you should take to and learn at this time, but for the millionash time "WHY NOT learn it all"??

 

[onehandbh]

Of course, that's my entire point.

Definitions should be in order as language gets twisted. All court to ME simply means you CAN PLAY the same behind the baseline, mid court, or net.

My POINT is that most, and I've simply seen it over and over, and yea anecdotal evidence isn't proof, but most these days FOCUS SOLELY on the baseline, and ignore the other points.

So my question still stands, WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEARNING IT ALL?

I actually agree with you. Although the pros today seemed to be able to
volley decently and can hit swinging volleys, for some reason, many of them
don't move in to cut the ball off after hitting an offensive groundstroke
that the opponent just barely gets back. The ball ends up floating back
deep and then the point is sort of reset again, but of course the opponent
is still on the defensive.

In the recent James blake / Tsonga match this happened time after time.
One of them would nail a groundstroke into the corner and the other
would barely get to it and float it back. Then, boom another groundstroke
into the other corner. Repeat. The problem is that sometimes the
defensive player is able to turn it around, reset, and go on the offensive.

Granted he was arguably the greatest volley ever, but few players today
can even come close to the volleying and front court ability of Edberg.
Nobody today can hit volleys as crisply or cut of angles the way he did.
His volleys were FIRM.

 

[Passion4Tennis]

Great avatar picture. I actually saw them on that concert tour in Birmingham AL on May 29, 1978. Front row seats baby! Best concert I ever saw and I saw the Stones, Who, Allman Brothers, and the Dead in the 70s.

Yep, Waiting for Columbus is one of the best live rock albums in history. You saw some good bands, but I'll take Little Feat over any of them. I'm envious that you saw them in 78, buddy! That had to be an awesome concert. It's too bad that a lot of people don't even know who they are. They were a hell of a lot more talented than most bands, and you couldn't ask for a better front man than Lowell George.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mick.

 

[Mick3391]

Yep, Waiting for Columbus is one of the best live rock albums in history. You saw some good bands, but I'll take Little Feat over any of them. I'm envious that you saw them in 78, buddy! That had to be an awesome concert. It's too bad that a lot of people don't even know who they are. They were a hell of a lot more talented than most bands, and you couldn't ask for a better front man than Lowell George.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Mick.

No problem man, I screw up, have to face the consequences, I deserve it.