How Do You Put A Stop To Partner Shopping?

Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I captain 7.5 combo and spring 4.0, and many of my teammates are (like me) new 4.0s. I am noticing a trend: Rampant partner shopping.

The instant a player loses a match, two things happen. First, she blames her partner (nothing new there). Second, she asks to partner with [fill in the blank with the name of the strongest player on the team].

It's getting out of hand, though. Ladies who have partnered reasonably well in the past or were never fussy about partners are suddenly poised to kick partners to the curb. Weak players are asking to play with strong ones who have specifically said they do not wish to partner with them. Players are complaining that they get too many different partners -- even though I told everyone at the start of the season with whom they would most likely partner.

Are these just the normal growing pains of moving up a level? What can I say or do to nip this?

I mean, if you are getting too many partners, this could mean that no one thinks you are any good so no one wants to be stuck with you. But I can't say that.

When someone asks to partner with the superstar, I want to say "Get in line, but don't hold your breath because the line in front of you is long"?

What tone can I set to get folks to realize that the only good solution to losing or not having a regular strong partner is to *improve?*
 
S

samarai

Semi-Pro
I think as the captain, and if your goal is to win, you put the best combinations together. Everybody else just fills the roster. There is no way to please everyone. If your goal is for everyone to have fun, then you can mix and match to your hearts desires.
 
J

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Cindysphinx said:
I captain 7.5 combo and spring 4.0, and many of my teammates are (like me) new 4.0s. I am noticing a trend: Rampant partner shopping.

The instant a player loses a match, two things happen. First, she blames her partner (nothing new there). Second, she asks to partner with [fill in the blank with the name of the strongest player on the team].

It's getting out of hand, though. Ladies who have partnered reasonably well in the past or were never fussy about partners are suddenly poised to kick partners to the curb. Weak players are asking to play with strong ones who have specifically said they do not wish to partner with them. Players are complaining that they get too many different partners -- even though I told everyone at the start of the season with whom they would most likely partner.

Are these just the normal growing pains of moving up a level? What can I say or do to nip this?

I mean, if you are getting too many partners, this could mean that no one thinks you are any good so no one wants to be stuck with you. But I can't say that.

When someone asks to partner with the superstar, I want to say "Get in line, but don't hold your breath because the line in front of you is long"?

What tone can I set to get folks to realize that the only good solution to losing or not having a regular strong partner is to *improve?*
Click to expand...

There was just an article in the Middle States magazine about the DE men's 4.5 national champs that said they used a randomizer app on the captain's iPhone to set their lineups.
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
J_R_B said:
There was just an article in the Middle States magazine about the DE men's 4.5 national champs that said they used a randomizer app on the captain's iPhone to set their lineups.
Click to expand...

What is a randomizer? Does that mean you do line-ups completely at random?
 
tennismonkey

tennismonkey

Semi-Pro
namesHAT.jpg
 
goober

goober

Legend
J_R_B said:
There was just an article in the Middle States magazine about the DE men's 4.5 national champs that said they used a randomizer app on the captain's iPhone to set their lineups.
Click to expand...

This would only work with team that strong talent across the board -such as a 4.5 National's champ. In their case it probably really doesn't matter what line up they put out, because they have enough talent and depth to win with any combination. For the rest of us, however you have to mix and match pairings to maximize your winning potential depending on what team you are playing. Scouting, going over records, and trying to put out lineups with which players are available are part of what makes captaining interesting.
 
B

blakesq

Hall of Fame
tell them, as nicely as you want: "you are the captain, you have final say. when your teammates are captains, then they can have final say on who partners with who."

Cindysphinx said:
I captain 7.5 combo and spring 4.0, and many of my teammates are (like me) new 4.0s. I am noticing a trend: Rampant partner shopping.

The instant a player loses a match, two things happen. First, she blames her partner (nothing new there). Second, she asks to partner with [fill in the blank with the name of the strongest player on the team].

It's getting out of hand, though. Ladies who have partnered reasonably well in the past or were never fussy about partners are suddenly poised to kick partners to the curb. Weak players are asking to play with strong ones who have specifically said they do not wish to partner with them. Players are complaining that they get too many different partners -- even though I told everyone at the start of the season with whom they would most likely partner.

Are these just the normal growing pains of moving up a level? What can I say or do to nip this?

I mean, if you are getting too many partners, this could mean that no one thinks you are any good so no one wants to be stuck with you. But I can't say that.

When someone asks to partner with the superstar, I want to say "Get in line, but don't hold your breath because the line in front of you is long"?

What tone can I set to get folks to realize that the only good solution to losing or not having a regular strong partner is to *improve?*
Click to expand...
 
H

Harl Goodman

New User
Cindysphinx said:
What tone can I set to get folks to realize that the only good solution to losing or not having a regular strong partner is to *improve?*
Click to expand...

My observation is that the biggest roadblock in league doubles is that all players are not on the same page in terms of their strategy.
The closer you can pull every player on a team to the same strategy, the easier it is to mix up the doubles combinations.

Adopting that philosophy brings focus to what each individual needs to improve on the most, and the results on court start to show up pretty quick.
 
beernutz

beernutz

Hall of Fame
Harl Goodman said:
My observation is that the biggest roadblock in league doubles is that all players are not on the same page in terms of their strategy.
The closer you can pull every player on a team to the same strategy, the easier it is to mix up the doubles combinations.

Adopting that philosophy brings focus to what each individual needs to improve on the most, and the results on court start to show up pretty quick.
Click to expand...
THIS!!!! I really don't care who I play with for the most part as long as we share similar doubles strategy. For me that includes things like aggressive poaching and/or fake poaching, getting first serves in, and using ball control shot selection (e.g., short to short and deep to deep).

Partners who act like statues when I'm serving or who guard DTL like their lives depended on not getting passed, partners who consistently but erratically try to hit hard flat serves out wide, and partners who wail away at every service return in a usually unsuccessful attempt to win the point right there get under my skin like chiggers.

I'm fine with people who don't share my beliefs on doubles strategy but at the same time there are plenty of other people who they can partner with besides me.

Does an eHarmony-like questionnaire exist which could be given to team members to determine their compatibility as partners? Maybe that would be a good project for this forum.
 
equinox

equinox

Hall of Fame
You're the captain and responsible for running the team.

Team mates have have little say in the pair line up.

If they fail to accept your decisions, kick them off the team until they're willing to abide by your words.

Man up.
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
J_R_B said:
There was just an article in the Middle States magazine about the DE men's 4.5 national champs that said they used a randomizer app on the captain's iPhone to set their lineups.
Click to expand...

Our team played that team and they were so much better than the rest of us that it did not matter what lineup they put out ... including who was to play singles or doubles.

In fact at districts their number 2 singles player played another player who was the best league player I had ever seen and beat him 6-0, 6-1 in about 25 minutes.

Theirs is not a good example to follow
 
D

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
One of the best pieces of information I have ever read on this board was the following.

Everyone wants to play with the best player on the team. Everyone thinks that they would be complimented by playing with the best player. The only way to ensure you are on the court with the best player is to be the best player. If you want your choice of partners get better!

Everyone else waits their turn.
 
Taxvictim

Taxvictim

Semi-Pro
Our captain never let us pick our own partners, even when he lured us onto the team by telling us we would. He would tell us at practice who our partner was going to be, then he'd change it all around when we got to the match.
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I don't have anything to contribute, except to say
It's very boring and frustrating to play with sucky partners.
 
user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Kyle,

but wouldn't you end up with no one playing since Cindy said the problem is "Rampant"? How much of a captain are you if there are only like 4 crewmembers? :)
 
Angle Queen

Angle Queen

Professional
Lotta good advice here, Cindy. But I don't think your problem is one of merely moving up a level although it probably more commonly rears its head at that juncture. It's probably more of an issue with the sheer volume of players ya'll carry on a team. I know you've posted in the past of why that is necessary (up there) but I really do think it leads to lots of issues, this being one of them.

ohplease had the mantra I lived by with the one team I captained last year:

ohplease said:
I solve this by (letting) better players picking their partners. The trick is determining who's better.
Click to expand...

But I had it easy. It was a Combo team and I offered to let the higher NTRP player choose. Funny though, with one exception, they all said it didn't matter and would like/enjoy playing with any of the lower crowd. My exception, only deep in the season, asked if she'd get another chance to play with a favored partner and friend. I wanted to accommodated them because not only is/was it a very successful pairing but it was a singular and polite request (from both sides!). Unfortunately, their personal schedules didn't make it possible.

Granted, we went into the season with a few things: we knew it would not count towards our NTRP, we would not be going to any playoffs if we qualified and, most importantly, we'd put the team together for fun and to have more quantity and quality opportunities to play. FWIW, this season I'm revamping a little -- still doesn't count towards NTRP but we had so much fun...we'd like to see if we could break out of the middle-of-the-pack and still enjoy ourselves. I'm dropping the one player who I felt struggled to create any harmony with her partners and filling in for the player we lost due to a well-deserved bump.

Harl offers a decent, more long-term plan.

Harl Goodman said:
My observation is that the biggest roadblock in league doubles is that all players are not on the same page in terms of their strategy.
The closer you can pull every player on a team to the same strategy, the easier it is to mix up the doubles combinations.
Click to expand...
Many years ago, I started with a 3.0 team. Our beloved captain arranged for cost-efficient and very worthwhile clinics for our entire team. Our pro was a "doubles" advocate and we all learned from the same book, so to speak. Now, many years later, many of us are slated to play two full NTRP levels higher this Spring on the same team. Do we have some very established & very successful pairs? Absolutely. But does our captain (and we as players) know that, no matter the lineup, we'll still have a decent and competitive match. Yep, because we all know each other's playing strategies & capabilities even if it's not our preferred playing style.

Bottom line, though, comes from blakesq & kylebarendrick:

blakesq said:
tell them, as nicely as you want: "you are the captain, you have final say. when your teammates are captains, then they can have final say on who partners with who."
Click to expand...

kylebarendrick said:
The more difficult a player makes it for me to put them into the line-up, the fewer line-ups they will be in.
Click to expand...
Word that.

+2

or

+3.

Tell 'em their requests/complaints are worth what you get paid to captain.

Nothing.
 
Last edited:
M

Mike Hodge

Rookie
ohplease said:
Word.

I solve this by better players picking their partners. The trick is determining who's better.
Click to expand...

I agree with this with one slight amendment. Let the players partner up amongst themselves. Hopefully, the better players align with each other and a pecking order emerges.

This would be tough to execute if it's a new team, but once people have played together for a while, it's doable.
 
J

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
dizzlmcwizzl said:
Our team played that team and they were so much better than the rest of us that it did not matter what lineup they put out ... including who was to play singles or doubles.

In fact at districts their number 2 singles player played another player who was the best league player I had ever seen and beat him 6-0, 6-1 in about 25 minutes.

Theirs is not a good example to follow
Click to expand...

Well, I'm certainly not implying that's a ticket to a national championship without having a national championiship roster in the first place. Also, I looked up the match you referenced, and that looks like an anomaly. I've seen the guy who won play, and I'm familiar with some of the other matches the other guy played, and it seemed to me that score should have been closer. Don't get me wrong, that guy could wipe the court with my sorry ass (actually both guys could, LOL), but he didn't look THAT dominant when I saw him play.
 
C

Clive Walker

Rookie
The team's I've captained have generally been 3 doubles pairs so I cannot comment on the USTA leagues, but...

I alway stry to arrange a team that gives the best chance of winning the match, irrespective of past partner glories or preferences.

Sometimes this is splitting the strongest players up so that the strength is dispersed along the team, sometimes it is going for a banker (Putting your 2 best players, or best dubs team, together to try to guarantee 6 sets), then putting the weakest 2 together to try and nip a set somewhere,

If you are keeping track, my team would now be 7-5 up in sets.
If the middle pair can split- i.e. win 3 sets, lose 3 sets, then we win the match 10-8. This is the plan for stronger opposition, while against weaker opposition I would split my stongest players.
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Anglequeen, that is an interesting idea about everyone having the same base of information about tactics, etc. There may be something to it.

Then again, these ladies have been teammates for years. If there were a difference in tactics, why is it only surfacing this year?

I think a big part of this is the bump up. Last year, these ladies (teammates on a combo team and 3.5 team) had to split up if they wanted to play up at 4.0 also because of the 2-player rule.

Now that many are 4.0s, they are playing 4.0 as partners for the first time. One lady, for instance, is used to coming in on everything. She S&V despite a weak serve, there are flaws in her volley technique, she lacks a strong overhead. At 4.0, she is not doing well because opponents can spank their returns or lob when she comes in. The response is to seek stronger partners?

Hey, I feel for her, but I feel for me too. My old tricks aren't working at 4.0 either. I wish my partners were bringing more to the table too. Still, the only answer is to develop some new tricks, as I don't see any partners who are willing or able to carry me around the court.
 
tennisjon

tennisjon

Professional
I captain and co-captain a couple of USTA teams and advise on 2 others. This issue does come up, but not as often with the guys as it does with the women and mixed. Guys, I find, put winning above whether or not they like the person. For me, I have a particular style of play (power baseliner with lots of spin and big returns and passing shots) that I know works best when I am on the ad side and when I have a partner who is a better volleyer than myself and is more consistent than myself. Now, not every time with I get that partner or my partner might have an off day. But, if I am trying to make winning combinations, I try to partner people that work together stylistically.
 
M

mahgeetah

New User
I would suggest an email to the team addressing the problem. Let them know that you are getting a lot of complaints about partners and remind everyone that they are playing with the same people who comprised a winning team last year.

Be supportive but let them know that we've all moved up a level and therefore it's going to be tougher for a while and it's up to them to take their game to the next level.
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
mahgeetah said:
I would suggest an email to the team addressing the problem. Let them know that you are getting a lot of complaints about partners and remind everyone that they are playing with the same people who comprised a winning team last year.

Be supportive but let them know that we've all moved up a level and therefore it's going to be tougher for a while and it's up to them to take their game to the next level.
Click to expand...

I am actually considering doing this.

The thing that is holding me back is the Parania Problem. If my teammates get a message that some people do not like their partners, they will assume their partner doesn't like them.

I am a little reluctant to plant that seed of doubt.
 
T

tennis tom

Legend
Cindysphinx said:
The thing that is holding me back is the Parania Problem.
Click to expand...

Yes, some times teams resemble schools of cannibalistic fish. Do some chumming with the weaker players, have a play-off to determine position in the pond. The weaker players will become fish-meal for the stronger ones.--competition improves the breed.
 
Ronaldo

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Cindysphinx said:
I am actually considering doing this.

The thing that is holding me back is the Parania Problem. If my teammates get a message that some people do not like their partners, they will assume their partner doesn't like them.

I am a little reluctant to plant that seed of doubt.
Click to expand...

It's Not Paranoia If They Really Are Out to Get Rid Of You. Wait till other teammates plant that seed of doubt to break-up the teams ahead of them.
 
H

Harl Goodman

New User
Cindysphinx said:
I am actually considering doing this.
Click to expand...

This is good opportunity to fine tune your team manifesto (or draft it).
Let everybody know how you want to run things, and what your reasons are.
Line out whatever your expectations are, and what they should expect from you.
Folks on board will love it.
Folks not on board may look for another team, which is good.
This also gives you a great recruiting script for new players. "Out team does it this way, and here's why. That's what you're in for if you join us."
It's a lot more rewarding to spend your tennis time with people who have a shared philosophy and support each others goals.
 
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