Here's my current setup I've been using since I've recently had some moderate arm issues that feels pretty good to me: HGS mains/ Tier 1 Ghostwire crosses, both 17 gauge @42lb
I can’t find a racquet or setup that I like that also suits my arm
- Thread starter MasterZeb
- Start date
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
The launch angle is much higher with the 100 than the 98, so it just depends on what you are used to or what racquet you’re coming from. Racquet selection is a very personal choice.
alexg
Rookie
First, I feel for you. TE is not fun. Keeps you away from friends and from doing what you love.
Two, stay away from poly. For a while, completely. Not in crosses, and certainly not in mains.
You're on the right track with full multi. I recovered from a bad TE using Head Velocity 16G at 52. Like you, and many others on the infamous Velocity thread, I was addicted to poly. The bottom line is that poly WILL generate spin while using bad technique. By bad technique I mean accelerating the racquet using your forearm muscles. Proper technique being using the kinetic chain like someone mentioned above. The issue of poly + bad technique is, it's a dead end. Your arm will fall off.
I know of a few players who can generate insane spin in their 95 sq inch racquet with a full bed of 16G multifilament or nylon. I know it's a multi or nylon because their strings are all over the place. If they can, so can you and so can I. Relying on poly / stiff racquet to generate moderate amounts of spin is just a trap. I've fallen into it, many have, and many will.
Wishing you speedy recovery. I don't mean to sound condescending or anything ; I'm telling you what I wish I knew at the onset of TE.
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MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
whats hgs sorry? Ghostwires a poly right?
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
apart from that pretty similar in terms of power spin control feel? I assume of course 98 naturally more stable due to extra weight
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
It really is. Its not fun at all having to take painkillers after/during play, and then having to sit out the next couple of days while my friends are out there playing everyday. Plus surely its not good at all for my long term arm health. I might have to go down the full multi route. Haven't tried a full bed since i was 12 so gonna be interesting. I'd like to think my technique is pretty good tbh but yeah main thing is enjoying playing pain free.
I think you have talked about this long enough. So… what’d be the worst case scenario?
(Do it!!!)
alexg
Rookie
i did play a Clash for a while, but it was long after my TE was resolved. So I can’t vouch for its healing qualities. It did provide plenty of spin.
Racquet wise, I have found out that almost any racquet can be made comfortable. All you have to do is add mass to the handle. Enough mass and it will absorb vibrations. I took a speed MP (middle of the road it terms of comfort), and added 20 grams to the handle. Slightly awkward balance, but suddenly there was no vibration whatsoever. Different racquets require different amounts. First gen Ezone 100 was vibration free with just an over grip and 5 grams. Softer racquets need less because they are generally buzz free to start with.
If your TE is moderate maybe multi poly is ok. To this day I don’t play poly in mains regularly. Maybe occasionally because my main racquet stringbed snapped.
Good luck.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Im thinking with the spin, even if i go with lets say fb multi, i will still have enough spin. Granted that means more restringing, but if im playing pain free, i will happily do so. Thing about weight is that im on the slender side. I used to use very very racquets (360 range), but ive since gladly realised lighter racquets are far better for me. was tough to get used to less stability but the welcome racquet head speed and spin was very much welcome and now ithink id be stupid to go back. i think fully poly also gave me some of that stability and direct contact, which is why i partly wanna use it.
Its not TE actually. Seems like a tendon issue but no idea what. Ive got appointments with specialists next month and in december so hopefully they can figure out whats wrong
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
I think control really, is the biggest difference, but it’s a great racquet (whichever one you pick). Coming from a more player oriented racquet, I did try someone’s Clash 100 Pro a few weeks ago and the launch angle was quite a bit more than my 98, so it might take me a bit to get used to that.
I think the 98 is easier to transition to, but it did take me a few weeks to get the feel for it. But damn, they’re good racquets.
I’m sure people would be appalled at my string setup, because it’s not what is recommended, but I could care less about appeasing anyone, this is what I use. Wilson NXT Power 16 in the mains and Isospeed Cream 16 in the crosses, both at 54 lbs.
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Hyper G soft, yes gw is poly extra soft.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
For me launch angle is something I can adjust to. I was used to using open 16x19 frames that had pretty high launch angles like the RF97 and pro staff 95. And then switching to the cx200 was very difficult at first. Everything was going in the net. By far the lowest launch angle I’ve used. But now I’m used to it. Whereas with weight, it’s more difficult to get used to, and train you’re muscles to get used to.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Reason I’m not considering that atm is the beam width. I’m just thinking that beam width paired with the weight is a recipe for an unstable frame with the weight of shot I play against.
tennis347
Hall of Fame
There is room for customization if needed to increase the twistweight. I found that a little weight at 12 worked well for heavy hitting and opening the sweetspot. This racquet is buttery soft.
@MasterZeb I would’ve recommended the v7 blade because it has the clash technology (feelflex) in a speedier frame (more manueverability, thinner beam width, more headlight). v7 blade works great with HG as many others have reported as well…I use HG 1.20 mains with polaris(soft copoly cross with good tension maintenance) because full bed HG is much too stiff for my arm
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
I tried the blade 16x19 but didn’t work for me really. Strung at 46lbs poly and I got pain with it. Then tried multi poly hybrid and felt slight pain, but just felt hollow as well.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
I don’t really want to add lead. I’m trying to go to lighter racquets and really really enjoying the whippy nature of the CX200 with its 318g weight (or close). So that’s why with the clash I’m thinking regular clash 100 rather than the 98 or the 100 tour.
tennis347
Hall of Fame
I hear you. I played with the Clash 98 and while it was comfortable, the stability was quite poor. The Clash 100 is only around 11 ounces and for heavy hitting will lack control and stability. I like the Dunlop CX line and have been playing with the 200 OS for a few months. It's player's oversize racquet with a thin beam. It's a 105 but does not play like an oversize. It's also very arm friendly and would be a better option than a Clash IMO. You have the regular 200 so the 200 OS would be a more forgiving and more user-friendly.
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
Adding lead at 12 o’clock doesn’t open up the sweet spot it moves the sweet spot toward the head.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
So a little update. I’m stuck between and trying three different combos atm. One is a Cx200 with black widow @40lbs. One is CX200 with X1 Biphase @50lbs. And last is Clash 100 with Black Widow @46lbs. Played a little today although conditions weren’t the best so can’t really put too much weight into it. I also felt really stiff as well.
The Black Widow CX200 felt nice. Did feel inconsistent, which was expected. Cannon on some shots. Grabs really well on others. The X1 CX200 I was pleasantly surprised with. Grab of course wasn’t as much, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be. Spin was decent. Did feel a little tinny/hollow to me, will try it again with a dampener next time. And the Clash was a mixed bag. Power level didn’t really feel too different to the 40lbs CX200. Did feel very clunky and heavy actually. Maybe I got a bad spec with a high SW but feels a lot heavier than the CX200 when it should be round abouts the same. 100 inch head size was a welcome change on high balls and defence. So not really swaying towards any of them. And of course, the main thing that will probably decide them is my arm. Facing another uni tomorrow so I’ll see what feels best during the warm up and stick with it for the day, and see how my arm fares.
The Black Widow CX200 felt nice. Did feel inconsistent, which was expected. Cannon on some shots. Grabs really well on others. The X1 CX200 I was pleasantly surprised with. Grab of course wasn’t as much, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be. Spin was decent. Did feel a little tinny/hollow to me, will try it again with a dampener next time. And the Clash was a mixed bag. Power level didn’t really feel too different to the 40lbs CX200. Did feel very clunky and heavy actually. Maybe I got a bad spec with a high SW but feels a lot heavier than the CX200 when it should be round abouts the same. 100 inch head size was a welcome change on high balls and defence. So not really swaying towards any of them. And of course, the main thing that will probably decide them is my arm. Facing another uni tomorrow so I’ll see what feels best during the warm up and stick with it for the day, and see how my arm fares.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Another update after todays matches.
Clash- too inconsistent. My game relies on confidence and going for every shot. Can’t do that with the clash. Any low ball sailed out. High balls weren’t bad. But I was timing it late as well with the heavier SW. don’t think it’s for me. And I don’t think going tighter would help my arm.
CX200s- Felt at home. Guess because I have been using this for the past month. But I knew exactly what the racket and the ball were gonna do. 40lbs tension plays well actually. Here and there you get instances where it just launches off but it’s not bad. And the Full bed multi also played well. Not as well as poly, but I can easily get used to it as well. Plus I need to try it with a dampener still.
Guess Cx200 it is. Hopefully my arm agrees.
Clash- too inconsistent. My game relies on confidence and going for every shot. Can’t do that with the clash. Any low ball sailed out. High balls weren’t bad. But I was timing it late as well with the heavier SW. don’t think it’s for me. And I don’t think going tighter would help my arm.
CX200s- Felt at home. Guess because I have been using this for the past month. But I knew exactly what the racket and the ball were gonna do. 40lbs tension plays well actually. Here and there you get instances where it just launches off but it’s not bad. And the Full bed multi also played well. Not as well as poly, but I can easily get used to it as well. Plus I need to try it with a dampener still.
Guess Cx200 it is. Hopefully my arm agrees.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
That's on you, not the racket. Gotta know it's harder to get topspin on a low ball unless you really bend your knees and get down to it.
Again, that's on you. It's like blaming a driver when you slice the ball 3 fairways over. Bad swing, bad result.
Fxanimator1
Hall of Fame
That’s why I recommended the Clash 98 to you. I remembered you were wanting to buy my 2 new 2012 ProStaff 95 I think it was, so I
Kind of knew what you were after.
I string my Clash 98 with Wilson NXT Power 16 mains and Isospeed cream 16 crosses, both at 54lbs. (I can hardly wait to read all the
naysayers telling me, “THAT’S TOO HIGH FOR A CLASH!”)
This setup is very arm friendly and consistent. Having said all that, I think what @Dartagnan64 stated is correctly, it sounds like a good bit of this is on your own technique, which of course, half the people on here say that “technique is not important”either.
Unfortunately, the Clash does take a bit of a time investment on your part to really gel with it and understand how it works. Trying to go out and use it for 20 min probably won’t be enough to make a great assessment of its properties.
At any rate, good luck with your journey.
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MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
You’re right. It’s on my technique of course. But I wouldn’t say I have bad technique. And I just don’t think that setup with the clash works with my technique and how I want to hit the ball. Isn’t that the whole point of trying to find a racquet and string combo that works for your game? That’s why every single people prefers different strings and tensions and racquets.
I played with the clash for a good hour or so before switching back to the CX200 for the matches. So idk. Maybe I need to try a different string combo. I’ll be honest. Had a nap and just woken up, arm doesn’t feel good. So I don’t think even the 40lbs CX200 is enough. And I can’t imagine going even lower. So probably it’s upto the clash with possibly a higher tension? Or maybe full multi. Along with the full bed multi in the Cx200
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
This is my action plan for now I think
1) Try Clash poly and CX200 multi one final time each and only use one racket for a session in order to gauge a good understanding for play, and arm health after
2) Depending on how that goes, try clash in either tension poly, or full bed multi, and try lower tension multi in Cx200
3) If all that fails, go back to the Pro Staff 95
1) Try Clash poly and CX200 multi one final time each and only use one racket for a session in order to gauge a good understanding for play, and arm health after
2) Depending on how that goes, try clash in either tension poly, or full bed multi, and try lower tension multi in Cx200
3) If all that fails, go back to the Pro Staff 95
tennis347
Hall of Fame
How about trying the Dunlop 200 CX OS? It will give you easier power from the regular 200 and still maintain good control as well the comfort. If you are a high level player, the Clash 100 is not the racquet for you. The control is horrible and not enough stability. The CX 200 OS is a thin beam 21.5 mm and a 105 but it doesn't play like a large frame. It's so easy to use and still considered a player's frame in a lighter package. I have customized mine to my own personal specifications and my game is transforming even at 54. I have been playing for over 30 years and this one of the best racquets that I have come across in a while. There is ample power, spin and good control with great feel and comfort. I don't experience any arm pain at after playing 2.5 hours of singles even with the young hard hitting players. Highly recommend you add the the CX 200 OS to your action plan!! There's room to add if you need more weight.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
That might be an option actually. Not gonna hide it though, that 105 square inch head scares me. 100 I was tentative about. Quite a big jump from 95. But yeah I think right now it’s all up to my arm. I can like whatever racket or combo or whatever but if my arm doesn’t agree with me then I can’t use it. So if my arm only decides that the clash works, that might have to be it. I’m gonna give it another week of trying all three combos and give them each their respective days so I can see how my arm fares after each session, and go from there.
tennis347
Hall of Fame
I hear you but it doesn't play like a 105. It will definitely help save your arm. It's really very easy to play with and very forgiving with a huge sweet spot. I understand about the Clash being arm friendly. You put a multi in the CX 200 OS and will be like playing with a big pillow, lol. On the serve it really gives good power and spin with not a tremendous effort. Definitely worth a demo or purchase IMO.
Booger
Hall of Fame
Unless you are a 5.5, that sounds super annoying.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
And I guess larger string gaps mean more spin too. Could be a contender. Will defo look around for a demo
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Good thing I’m higher in that case
Booger
Hall of Fame
Good thing I’m higher in that case
I'll eat my hat if you are higher than 4.0.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
You’re free to do whatever you want buddy
tennis347
Hall of Fame
Yes, good spin potential for sure but also good for flatter ball striking. The pattern is more open on top of the string bed and denser in the middle. The control is really good! Hopefully you can find a demo and keep some lead tape on hand to add some weight if needed.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Ok so an update because i am lost
So i went to the physio. She said that she thinks its down to a lack of strength in the tendons and they aren't able to keep taking such a hard impact everytime and so has given me excercises to do and strengthen them before another checkup in january. I also have an appointment coming up with an arm specialist in January. Its definitely not tennis or golfers elbow. Which makes sense i think. Im very skinny. 6ft. 65kg. And have twigs for arms. Ive also decided to join the gym to get my strength levels up so hopefully it works.
So Ive been trying different setups in the meanwhile but nothing clicks.
In the CX200:
Tried Black Widow @40lbs. This was fine initally, but then started to hurt badly again. In the same area between the bicep and tricep, but i also started to develop issues in my forearm, wrist and hand (i have a next gen type forehand, think kyrgios). Every so often feel like a pulsating pain in fingers tendons. In terms of how it plays, no confidence at all. Feel of poly is nice and ideal, but its way too loose for me as well and i cant play as well as i should.
Tried X1 @50lbs full bed. 15L gauge too so quite thick. Very boardy. Dont like the feel. Dont like the sound. Dont like the lack of spin. Idk. Power level is a little high, but the feel i absolutely hate. Just feels very hollow and boardy.
Tried X1 mains, Black Widow crosses @44/40. Again same thing with the boardy and hollow feel, just a little less. Still not enough spin or feel.
Tried Black Widow mains. X1 crosses @40/40. Again, same results just a little less.
All these were done with 15L X1, so does this explain the feel im getting? Or would i expect this even if i tried 16 gauge?
One option would be to go for another poly, but black widow is already quite soft so idk how much difference it would make. Maybe i could go for a lower powered poly and string lower than 40lbs? Like savage? Would that somehow play softer while also retaining control?
Also tried Clash 100 with Black widow strung at 44lbs. But my arm again wasnt a fan. This actually hurt my arm the most out of all these setups.
I in the meanwhile also picked up my pro staff 95 that i weighted to 370 that was strung with X1 mains, ALU Rough crosses @49/46. Feed back was that feel was not bad. Still boardy but ALOT better than what the same setup feels like in the CX200. Didnt enjoy the lack of spin though. But was far too heavy. Couldnt serve. And i was knackered after 45mins of hitting. Took some of the weight off until it had a SW of about 320. Felt better. But still the lack of spin I didnt like. The boardy feel, i guess i could get used to as its not as bad as how it feels in cx200. As for arm, no pain or discomfort at all in wrist/hand/forearm. But the tendon issue in between the bicep and tricep remained.
Maybe i could try a thinner gauge in the X1? Would that make a difference at all? OR are there any other combos that you guys might suggest for any racket? Hopefully the strength and conditioning work im doing now is going to work, but want a solution asap. Im not playing how i want at all and am struggling against players i was/should be beating.
So i went to the physio. She said that she thinks its down to a lack of strength in the tendons and they aren't able to keep taking such a hard impact everytime and so has given me excercises to do and strengthen them before another checkup in january. I also have an appointment coming up with an arm specialist in January. Its definitely not tennis or golfers elbow. Which makes sense i think. Im very skinny. 6ft. 65kg. And have twigs for arms. Ive also decided to join the gym to get my strength levels up so hopefully it works.
So Ive been trying different setups in the meanwhile but nothing clicks.
In the CX200:
Tried Black Widow @40lbs. This was fine initally, but then started to hurt badly again. In the same area between the bicep and tricep, but i also started to develop issues in my forearm, wrist and hand (i have a next gen type forehand, think kyrgios). Every so often feel like a pulsating pain in fingers tendons. In terms of how it plays, no confidence at all. Feel of poly is nice and ideal, but its way too loose for me as well and i cant play as well as i should.
Tried X1 @50lbs full bed. 15L gauge too so quite thick. Very boardy. Dont like the feel. Dont like the sound. Dont like the lack of spin. Idk. Power level is a little high, but the feel i absolutely hate. Just feels very hollow and boardy.
Tried X1 mains, Black Widow crosses @44/40. Again same thing with the boardy and hollow feel, just a little less. Still not enough spin or feel.
Tried Black Widow mains. X1 crosses @40/40. Again, same results just a little less.
All these were done with 15L X1, so does this explain the feel im getting? Or would i expect this even if i tried 16 gauge?
One option would be to go for another poly, but black widow is already quite soft so idk how much difference it would make. Maybe i could go for a lower powered poly and string lower than 40lbs? Like savage? Would that somehow play softer while also retaining control?
Also tried Clash 100 with Black widow strung at 44lbs. But my arm again wasnt a fan. This actually hurt my arm the most out of all these setups.
I in the meanwhile also picked up my pro staff 95 that i weighted to 370 that was strung with X1 mains, ALU Rough crosses @49/46. Feed back was that feel was not bad. Still boardy but ALOT better than what the same setup feels like in the CX200. Didnt enjoy the lack of spin though. But was far too heavy. Couldnt serve. And i was knackered after 45mins of hitting. Took some of the weight off until it had a SW of about 320. Felt better. But still the lack of spin I didnt like. The boardy feel, i guess i could get used to as its not as bad as how it feels in cx200. As for arm, no pain or discomfort at all in wrist/hand/forearm. But the tendon issue in between the bicep and tricep remained.
Maybe i could try a thinner gauge in the X1? Would that make a difference at all? OR are there any other combos that you guys might suggest for any racket? Hopefully the strength and conditioning work im doing now is going to work, but want a solution asap. Im not playing how i want at all and am struggling against players i was/should be beating.
landcookie
Semi-Pro
Think your hunch is right. Sounds like a lack of conditioning, and could also be technique.
If you still get pain with a soft racquet and x1 there isn't much more you can do set-up wise. Are there softer set-ups out there? Sure , but maybe only marginally. Sounds like something more sinister is at play here.
Have you had a coach look at your technique recently?
If you still get pain with a soft racquet and x1 there isn't much more you can do set-up wise. Are there softer set-ups out there? Sure , but maybe only marginally. Sounds like something more sinister is at play here.
Have you had a coach look at your technique recently?
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
Yep get coached twice a week regularly by a personal coach, and twice by the uni coach. Both have said technique is good.
sorry to hear this is still going on - maybe also engage a conditioning coach/trainer.
slipgrip93
Professional
It's a shame Wilson just puts out the Blades on the retail market. While plenty of the WTA wilson players are currently using a prostock steam 100 circa 2012-4 painted over pretending to be Blades. (thread link) The Steam 100 reputedly generates good spin, pace, and is fairly light. And then plenty of the ATP guys are using stock 95 sq in racquets of whatever make. (thread post). There were also past lighter wilson 95's with good spin potential such as the KTour 95, or the BLX Tour 95, with 16x20 pattern , but now it's literally none smaller than 98 for the current wilson retail lineup. While some other manufacturers at least have a few 93,95 variety racquets.
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CX200 is not the most arm friendly racquet. The clash is pretty soft so if your arm hurts from that, it’s quite concerning. Give the v7 blade 98 16x19 a try…it is quite soft. Also, black widow is quite soft but if you’re using thick 16g, it may not be as arm friendly as HGS 16L/17g. Also, using a soft round copoly cross with shaped mains could also help to soften up the string bed (ghostwire, polaris). String low 40s and utilize brushing technique to provide adequate spin to keep the ball in.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
To me, all signs point to a rotator cuff tear in your shoulder as I posted three months ago. You should stop playing tennis till you get it checked out with a MRI as you might be damaging it further.
graycrait
Legend
@MasterZeb , Your answer lies with the Prince Twistpower X97 Tour. A high level fogy recommended it to me and I got one. At 67 it is my "excalibur," "thor's hammer," McEnroe's Maxply
Seriously though, give it a shot and string it with Prince Diablo 17 at 58lbs.
Seriously though, give it a shot and string it with Prince Diablo 17 at 58lbs.
FiddlerDog
Hall of Fame
Where did he describe his rotator cuff symptoms?
OP is obsessed with strings and rackets, and is likely a lost cause.
Most people think equipment is the solution to every problem.
Has the OP stated that he has visited a real MD even once?
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socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Rotator cuff injuries with impinged biceps tendon is the #1 injury amongst juniors who train a lot and are thin/scrawny as the OP described himself. The pain usually comes with overhead motions like serves only as the OP is experiencing - juniors who are not well-built often don’t have strong enough shoulders to withstand the repetitive motion of serving if they are in a tennis academy and the OP also used to play with a heavy RF97. He went to a NHS general doctor, but hasn’t seen a sports doctor or done a MRI yet which is needed to show rotator cuff tears.
The OP is just trying to minimize the healthcare costs and be conservative in terms of medical diagnosis/treatment as happens with the NHS medical system, but it might cause a more serious tear if he keeps playing tennis. Unfortunately his coaches don’t seem to care enough to stop him from playing till he gets diagnosed.
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MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
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