I need something to help me keep my head still and my eye on the ball.
- Thread starter rockbox
- Start date
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Slow down your pace and focus on just looking at the point of contact longer. Relaxed swings so that you can isolate the practice. Then speed up as you get more comfortable with it.
I recommend having a coach look at it though, my guess is that it's something else (likely to do with footwork and bodyweight transfer).
I recommend having a coach look at it though, my guess is that it's something else (likely to do with footwork and bodyweight transfer).
rockbox
Semi-Pro
I've had this problem for over 30 years and have been told so constantly. If you watch me play, I look like a 4.0-4.5 player until you see me completely miss the ball on very simple shots.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
Look, your head moving away from contact is a result of another action (most often overrotation IME). For most people the advice to "keep the head still" fixes that issue, as that is easier to implement than to change how you involve your body and trunk into the shot. If you have been struggling with it for so long, then actually understanding the issue better may help you. Slow down your swing and be relaxed. Don't swing wildly when speeding up. It sounds to me more like an issue of focus than anything else if you miss the easy shots.
rockbox
Semi-Pro
I definitely have focus issues. It's been clinically confirmed.
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
Try this device while listening to some relaxing classical music...
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
^ Or you can opt for a low-tech version. You can make it pretty with some flowers
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Hundreds, nay, thousands of shadow swings. Or at least 2 dozen per diem. As you start a shadow swing, pretend that you are tracking an incoming ball. Shortly after your forward swing phase starts, turn your head and fix your eyes on your contact zone. Keep your eyes there until your follow-thru is complete (or nearly complete). Then look up to track the imaginary outgoing ball as you finish your swing.
Another good drill is to use a hitting wall. Don't move your head or take your eyes off the contact point until you hear the ball hit the wall. Repeat often. You can do the same thing hitting balls against the fence instead of the wall.
After these drills, take a basket of balls to the baseline. Hit some balls over the net from an easy ball feed (can be a self-feed). Resist the temptation to look up to follow the ball before it has crossed the net. You should still be able to track the ball in time to see it bounce on the other side of the net.
Visual acuity? Convergence insufficiency?
Another good drill is to use a hitting wall. Don't move your head or take your eyes off the contact point until you hear the ball hit the wall. Repeat often. You can do the same thing hitting balls against the fence instead of the wall.
After these drills, take a basket of balls to the baseline. Hit some balls over the net from an easy ball feed (can be a self-feed). Resist the temptation to look up to follow the ball before it has crossed the net. You should still be able to track the ball in time to see it bounce on the other side of the net.
Visual acuity? Convergence insufficiency?
Last edited:
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
A drill that worked for me was to stroke the ball with the rule that you cannot see it before it bounces in the other court. If you see it going over the net, that fails, wait longer.
A second thing for feedback is to ask yourself after the shot - where on the ball did you hit it? If you draw a blank you probably were not looking at the ball at impact.
My watching habits are much improved until the incoming pace or pressure goes up, then I somehow I think that I don't have time for careful watching.
Federer is the model for watching the ball. He seems to look at impact through his racket strings from behind.
A second thing for feedback is to ask yourself after the shot - where on the ball did you hit it? If you draw a blank you probably were not looking at the ball at impact.
My watching habits are much improved until the incoming pace or pressure goes up, then I somehow I think that I don't have time for careful watching.
Federer is the model for watching the ball. He seems to look at impact through his racket strings from behind.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
i like the idea of waiting til after the ball bounces... or at least after it passes the net
persononally I never see where on the ball i hit it... it's always just a yellow blur... if i see the yellow blur, i'm good
agree with fed... if you watch fed's head at contact, and compare it to just about anyone,... he seems to watch the contact more consistently than anyone on tour.
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
They say a human can't actually track an incoming tennis ball to the point it hits the racquet... that we actually focus a foot or two in front of the contact point.... but I swear, watching Fed in the Aust Open with the hi res video feeds.... man, it sure looks like he actually watches to ball impact the strings. But then, what would you expect from the greatest of all time?
then again, maybe he takes a different approach. What if as he is tracking the ball in, he doesn't follow the ball to impact, but instead adjusts his focus to the point where he expects the ball to contact the racquet? Would that work? Anyone try it?
then again, maybe he takes a different approach. What if as he is tracking the ball in, he doesn't follow the ball to impact, but instead adjusts his focus to the point where he expects the ball to contact the racquet? Would that work? Anyone try it?
morobtennis
New User
Tell yourself to OBSERVE the ball as long as you can before starting your swing. OBSERVE the ball as though you're going to catch it with your.
When you catch a ball, you set your hand behind the line of the ball and wait for it---you don't reach OUT FRONT to catch. If you do, it usually doesn't work out so good.
Make more time for yourself and remain relaxed by WAITING ON THE BALL longer using an open stance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I have read that players break off watching the ball at some point and switch their look to the location of impact. (See Biomechanical Principles of Tennis Technique, D. Knudson.) I don't break off but more try to track the ball in to impact. An unresolved question. ?
Last edited:
So you have ingrained a disastrous habit. It will take a lot of discipline and will power to undo it. It sounds like a simple thing to fix, but for you it obviously is not.
I think most players not named Fed have at least occasional issues with looking up. What I would suggest is some regular sessions with a ball machine, so that there are no distractions. Tell yourself the only thing you are going to try to do is see the ball through impact. Nothing else. Then keep track of how many consecutive shots you can hit in which you actually did stay on the ball through impact.
One side benefit of this is that you will quickly learn that you have way more time than you thought to look up and track your shot.
This is a chronic problem is golf. The adage there is that if you look up, you will see a bad shot.
rockbox
Semi-Pro
rockbox
Semi-Pro
I really like he first idea. I've been channeling my inner Fed this week, and telling myself, "play the ball, not the opponent"
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
In case you missed it, this was the gist of my 3rd drill/suggestion in my earlier post (#8). I had indicated that it was not important to see the outgoing ball before it crossed the net. However, I believe that it IS important to see where and how the ball bounces after it has crossed the net. It will give you some idea on the strength/effectiveness of your own shot and give you some idea as to the options that your opponent might have to play that ball.
I much prefer the sequence of drills that I suggested rather than the trial & error approach suggested by CT in #9.
Last edited:
P
PittsburghDad
Guest
Have had success with drilling with a pencil tucked behind your ear. Don't let it fall.
lemintz
Rookie
Hey OP, there's also a great video by Tomaz of FeelTennis on keeping the eye on the ball/keeping the head still
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
A Hi-res/Hi-speed camera sitting at some distance from Fed hitting the ball can clearly see the ball near/on his stringbed. It is highly doubtful that Fed, even with superior visual skills, can actually see a solid ball while it is in very close proximity to him. On a moderate to fast incoming ball, his smooth pursuit (visual) tracking system probably loses sight of the ball when it is a couple of feet (perhaps even a meter or so) before it gets to his contact point. He probably does pick up a brief/momentary blur with a jump-ahead saccade (with the saccadic tracking system). Note that his eyes actually get to the contact point slightly before the ball does. So he's not really following the ball all the way into the strings -- his head is still and his eyes are lying-in-wait at the CP for the ball to arrive.
I have been able to see that indistinct and fleeting yellow blur every once in a while when I employ the Federer gaze strategy. I lose the image of a solid ball moving toward me some 2-3 feet before it gets to my intended CP. However, I do pick up a nebulous yellow blur in close proximity to the racket/CP. Never EVER see the blur on the stringbed itself tho'. The racket during the contact phase is also a blur. The event happens so quickly that I can't even tell if the blur is the incoming ball or the outgoing ball -- perhaps it a blend of the two.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Using the Fed gaze technique, I will see a discernible (solid) incoming ball until it gets close to me. I then lose sight of it for a brief period until my saccadic system momentarily picks up a yellow blur. But then I lose sight of the ball again just after the blur. I am not usually able to pick up a the solid image of the ball again until it is some 4-8 meters away from me (assuming I look up early to try to follow the ball). Since I can't actually pick up the ball much before it crosses the net, I don't even bother lift my head that early to try to follow the ball. Moving the head early, in an attempt to follow the ball, can often result in an undesirable change in the swingpath of the racket during the contact phase (or just before impact).
Note that tennis lineman also use this jump-ahead technique. Any time they track a ball that appear that it will land close to a line, they STOP watching the ball and focus (jump ahead) to the area of the line where the expected bounce will occur. With the head still and eyes fixated on the line, they are able to see the ball again a it comes into view and bounces. If they try to track the ball all the way to the line, their ability to accurately make a good line call diminishes drastically.
The jump-ahead saccade that I suggested is something that elite cricket batsmen employ at least twice on an incoming pitch (bowl?). They (smooth pursuit) track the ball for a while after it has left the bowler's hand. They determine the expected bounce point of the pitch and let their eyes jump ahead to lay-in-wait for the ball. Once they see the ball bouncing, they track the ball again for a very short time and then jump ahead again to their expected contact point.
I have tried this cricket batsmen double-jump technique on incoming tennis serves. Don't do this every time but I've had pretty decent success when I have employed it. Something to try if you are having difficulty on serve returns. I wonder if Federer employs this double-jump saccade squence when he hits his half volleys. He seems to be much better at half volleys than most players. It is his proficiency with hitting half volleys (or hitting balls on the rise) that gave rise to his SABR return. (Has he used it at all lately)?
C
Chadillac
Guest
Keep one knee bent at all times, focus on that.
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
That's well written SA. Now I have to "see" if I am already doing this (probably not, or not enough). And if not, employ it and see how it works. Good stuff Ludwig, me old droog...
+1 I was going to suggest the exact same thing. For a timing aid, I breath out during every stroke, and wait to finish the breath before looking at the ball. Per SA's comment, you do need to drill this to make it instinctive. I do lots of shadow swings with a bounce step, unit turn for prep, swing with a breath, and then look up toward the opponent
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Interesting suggestion. Exhaling during the forward swing or during the contact phase is good advice. Exhalation is employed for the primary exertion phase of most exercises. Hadn't thought of using the end of that exhale as a cue to look up to follow the ball (and watch the opponent).
I don't believe that holding the breath as one if making contact is a very good idea. While Andy Roddick did this at times, most elite players do not hold their breath during the forward swing (or contact phase). Many will inhale during the unit turn or the prep phase of their stroke and then exhale on the exertion phase.
Some players will often inhale on the bounce of incoming ball and then exhale on contact. Some players do this a bit too audibly (with a loud grunt or scream). While it can be rather annoying, Vika Azarenka employs an interesting variation of this. On most incoming balls, she appears to make a low volume inhale sound as the ball bounces and then a loud exhale sound on her forward swing.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I just bought a ball machine to practice this very thing.
I can not wait to take 300 swings with the only thing in my brain being "Keep head down. Watch contact point after contact"
I can not wait to take 300 swings with the only thing in my brain being "Keep head down. Watch contact point after contact"
r2473
G.O.A.T.
You're going to rise to the level of 3.0 in no time I think.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Make that the ONLY technical aspect you think during your strokes; in other words, do that first, no matter what else the coach might tell you (eh, get in position, be stable, blah blah)...
As per the Inner game of tennis if you are familiar with.
The only other thing that can be another candidate for the most important thing to worry about is hitting relaxed as oposed to muscling the ball...
Getting in position to hit the ball in front of you and early preparation are also important but they happen in different phases, so to speak so during the stroke:
- Hit relaxed and afterwards
- Make sure you keep your eyes at contact point, through the contact (you are not supposed to see if the ball hits the net- If you see it, kick yourself!)
rockbox
Semi-Pro
Maybe even 3.5 if I work really hard.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I just kept glaring at the ball like Jack Nicholson in The Shining until I had tunnel vision.
Funny as that may sound, it actually did improve my volleying and groundstrokes massively.
That said, the important thing isn't to look at the ball at contact, but to keep your head still. Lots of pros do not actually look at the ball at the point of contact because other than the still head, there is no tangible benefit as you can't see the contact being made anyway. So long as you track the ball to the bounce and maybe a little past the bounce until the forward swing starts (ie you're swinging the racquet at just past the last known location of the ball), you're fine.
Funny as that may sound, it actually did improve my volleying and groundstrokes massively.
That said, the important thing isn't to look at the ball at contact, but to keep your head still. Lots of pros do not actually look at the ball at the point of contact because other than the still head, there is no tangible benefit as you can't see the contact being made anyway. So long as you track the ball to the bounce and maybe a little past the bounce until the forward swing starts (ie you're swinging the racquet at just past the last known location of the ball), you're fine.
Pete Player
Hall of Fame
Either they've learned it or, it is more a physical issue. You need to blink more, if your eyes are sore or dry by nature. I seem to have some ADD-type troubles on bulk matters, but when I'm really intrested, I can stare quite a stretch - and find out, it was my bedtime 5 hrs ago and sun is about to rise.
Blinking your eyes may also have an effect. The best of WRC rallye drivers have had that same glare'n stare kind of vision as Nole sometimes. They blink only every tenth time a regular guy would during the special stages.
Also, if you look at the Road Racing bikers, or any biker for that matter their head is upright, yet the bike is tilted in corners. The aim is to keep your focus as far ahead the track, you possibly can see, so the apex of the curve does not surprise you.
One other thing, I think may have also big influence. People with normal visus are steered by their eyes. That said, it is rather common, that you miss the balls, you're trying to hit bit too hard, out of your envelope, cause head's going first behind the eyes.
Blinking your eyes may also have an effect. The best of WRC rallye drivers have had that same glare'n stare kind of vision as Nole sometimes. They blink only every tenth time a regular guy would during the special stages.
Also, if you look at the Road Racing bikers, or any biker for that matter their head is upright, yet the bike is tilted in corners. The aim is to keep your focus as far ahead the track, you possibly can see, so the apex of the curve does not surprise you.
One other thing, I think may have also big influence. People with normal visus are steered by their eyes. That said, it is rather common, that you miss the balls, you're trying to hit bit too hard, out of your envelope, cause head's going first behind the eyes.
Last edited:
I can do all of those, but in the heat of the moment I automatically turn my head. I give away so many points and lose so many games because of it. My opponent is serving. I’ll watch the ball on the toss, when they make contact, when the ball bounces on my side start to swing and turn my head. Or I will just look straight forward not even looking in the direction of the ball. It seriously makes me want to lose my mind. I know the issue but my brain refuses to fit it. Opponent hits the ball short. Running to attack the shot, swing, turn my head and frame it hitting it long. Over and over again this happens. I just played and lost to someone I always beat due to all the free points I gave away. I don’t know what to do.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Hundred, even thousands, of reps with shadow swings. At home. At the courts, before you play. A dozen or more between games. And several between each point. Eventually it will become a crystallized habit.
With shadow swings, pretend you are watching an incoming ball during your unit turn and your loop preparation ---prior to starting your forward swing. Shortly after starting the forward swing, fix you gaze -- either at your contact point for a foot (25+ cm) forward of your contact point -- whichever feels more comfortable.
Regardless of exactly where you fix your gaze, it is important to keep your head still after you have started your forward swing. Do not move your head or look up until a bit after you have seen your racket flash thru your contact point.
Also these "quiet eye, quiet head" shadow swings with your eyes closed so that you are more aware of your head not moving after you have started your forward swing.
I will post another drill shortly
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I believe that have already given you the fence drill 2+ months ago but apparently you did not really put in the time to make it a habit. I do not know what else to suggest if you're not willing to put in the reps to correct the habit
The only other thing I can suggest is not to watch the server's ball toss too closely. Notice the toss, but focus mostly on racket, racket arm and racket shoulder. Try to predict where the ball will bounce. And follow the Ball until you have started your forward swing. Practice, practice, practice.
Last edited:
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I don’t listen anymore to player’s self-analysis on why they miss as they always think it is something related to their swing. I watch them play and the main problem is usually their bad footwork which causes errors. They don’t know proper spacing or where to stop, how much to bend the knee etc. when they have to run to hit the ball PLUS they don’t move away early enough when the ball is hit right at them including on body serves. I bet these footwork issues are there too and it is not just about watching the ball at contact although a still head will also reduce errors.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
For anyone willing to put in the time, this is the drill I had suggested back at the beginning of July. This, along with the shadow swings I suggested above, should cure, or at least significantly minimize, the problem:
HITTING DRILL:
Position yourself about 3-5 meters (10-16 ft) from a fence (or hitting wall). With an easy self-feed, let the ball bounce & then drive a ball into the fence or wall with a Fh or Bh stroke. Intially, watch your self-feed long enough to determine your CP. Then, focus your eyes on your expected contact point (or slightly forward of that CP).
Now, do not move your head or shift your gaze, until you hear the ball hit the fence (or wall). If you see the ball hitting the fence at this short distance, you are moving your head too early (or looking up too early).
Repeat this sequence a dozen or two times on each side every time you get out to hit on the court or hitting wall. Perhaps, after hundreds or even thousands of repetitions, this will eventually will start to become a habit.
HITTING DRILL:
Position yourself about 3-5 meters (10-16 ft) from a fence (or hitting wall). With an easy self-feed, let the ball bounce & then drive a ball into the fence or wall with a Fh or Bh stroke. Intially, watch your self-feed long enough to determine your CP. Then, focus your eyes on your expected contact point (or slightly forward of that CP).
Now, do not move your head or shift your gaze, until you hear the ball hit the fence (or wall). If you see the ball hitting the fence at this short distance, you are moving your head too early (or looking up too early).
Repeat this sequence a dozen or two times on each side every time you get out to hit on the court or hitting wall. Perhaps, after hundreds or even thousands of repetitions, this will eventually will start to become a habit.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Alexander observed something about himself as a performer, reading Shakespeare?, in England in the late 1800s.
If he thought 'I have to go out on the stage and perform', he would start a response sequence so that he grew tense, feared performing, speech was affected and eventually had breathing problems. What he discovered and found a fix for was the progression of events from his first thought to the physical issues and poor performances. To stop the progression instead of the thought that 'he must go on stage and perform' he would say to himself 'I don't have to go on the stage and perform'. Saying simple, untrue and often ridiculous sentences was often all it took to stop the progression to his bad performance.
Your issue occurs over a short time, different than his progression. But if you have the thought 'I must look at the ball' maybe it is similar. ? Try saying 'I don't have to look at the ball'. I have found that suggestion, one of the Alexander's techniques, was useful in relaxing me and my doubles partner and was a plus. 'I don't have to win my serve.' helps. Maybe there are some words that you say that calls up your same old behavior of ball watching. Say the opposite of what you have been saying in the past. 'I never have to look at a tennis ball.' This might get into conscious vs subconscious parts of your mind and be complex, but I think that there is something to it.
I think that it was also important for me to keep my head looking at the ball for a longer time, until the ball bounced on the other side of the net. At least I learned that I did not immediately get into trouble by holding my head still longer.
Last edited:
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
painkiller
New User
Try saying "look" after hitting the ball
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
¿Qué?
Mongolmike
Hall of Fame
No. That'd be "mira".
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Sight? Vision? Look? No comprende.
