Spencer Gore
Legend
What names did you post under before?
If it ended 20-20-19
- Thread starter Beckerserve
- Start date
Sunny014
Legend
If Djokovic wins the French Open then rest assured he will take the next 3 slams too and hold all the 4 slams together.
You can declare him the GOAT then and there itself.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
The goal is both.
Well obviously it depends what you rate higher. And that might switch in the course of a career. If you ask Roger what he'd take, another Wimbledon or getting back to Number 1 for a few weeks without a GS he'd take another GS, I'm sure.
@GabeT
Sampras might be ahead in 3/4 majors, but Nadal could equalise Sampras' entire Grand Slam career at one major. I mean, how could anyone argue Sampras is greater? It's like a decathlon, and one athlete makes as many points in the three throwing disciplines as everybody else in all 10 combined, but the others say "hey we are better decathlon athletes because we are better in 7 disciplines than you". Also, Nadal played the Grass GOAT and the Hardcourt GOATs and won 7 slams on those surfaces. That's exactly Sampras count off his best surface.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
This is simply nonsense. How many times do pro players have to state that reaching #1 is an overriding goal?
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
someone recently posted an interview with Fed from a few years back where he explicitly said he’d rather return to #1 than win another slam, if he could choose. I recall another interview in his post 2017 comeback where he was asked about reaching #1 and he said he’d love to but that it was more difficult than winning a slam.
on Nadal-Sampras I’m not arguing in favor of anyone. I’m just trying, if posible, to better understand the logic of those that prioritize slam wins. My view is that we spend way too much time on “greatest’ discussions and that most tennis fans I know don’t care or even know what this is all about. But this is a tennis forum for fanatics so might as well debate among others as interested in the details
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
DIMI_D
Hall of Fame
Petros has many alias you should say welcome backYup this seems likely
also, welcome to the forum new user
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Says he’s a new user bud.
Druss
Hall of Fame
It’s not happening! I sense Nadal has at least one more slam in him. As much as I’d like to, I just can’t bet against Djokovic. All those times the guy was facing defeat (e.g. vs Fedr, or even down two sets vs Mussetti y’day), and yet he’d still have that look like he believes he is still going to win the match. With that kind of mentality and obviously his prowess on the court, you just never know.
new account, old user, banned multiple times
I wonder how long it will take till mods will ban this one
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
I’m not a mod so no idea about any of that. Try to make this forum a welcoming place for new tennis fans bud
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
Wonder when you'll start posting arguments instead of attacks/slander
Sunny014
Legend
Sad for Federer that 2 guys will cross him.
01. Djokovic has benefitted from no rivals below him in the next gen
02. Nadal did not benefit a lot from the no rivals thing but he surely benefits from his invincibility on clay that is like 2 slams in 1.
Both these guys will bring down Fed to one of the 3 GOATs when all this is done, he should have remained the sole GOAT but destiny was quite cruel to him by sending 2 next gens below him and 1 of them prevented him from winning clay in his own peak...... SIGH !!!
01. Djokovic has benefitted from no rivals below him in the next gen
02. Nadal did not benefit a lot from the no rivals thing but he surely benefits from his invincibility on clay that is like 2 slams in 1.
Both these guys will bring down Fed to one of the 3 GOATs when all this is done, he should have remained the sole GOAT but destiny was quite cruel to him by sending 2 next gens below him and 1 of them prevented him from winning clay in his own peak...... SIGH !!!
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as soon as you will start reasonably processing them and discussing instead of trolling like there is no tomorrow and:
I’m not a mod so no idea about any of that. Try to make this forum a welcoming place for new tennis fans bud
1. this user is not new to this place
2. I wonder if it is a tennis fan or a plain hater of one player trying to disguise as a fan of another player
3. if you really try to make it welcoming place, why don't you for beginning exclude the "vulturing" & disrespect to Fed from your vocabulary?
Sunny014
Legend
True.
Novak should have been on 20 today
2020 was his year and the USO + W hurt him real bad.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
Pete lives rent free in Fedheads since the start of the Weak Era and now has purchased many properties since the Weak Era has been widely accepted/exposedSad for Peter Sampras that he will now be relegated to the 4th or maybe 5th wheel ..... a total nobody!
Peter is already forgotten long back, now he will be a nobody in history, he has been relegated to the Mcenroe-Becker-Connors-Borg-Lendl-Agassi league
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
Pete fan and big Nole supporter since I see him as Pete's spiritual successorProve it
Looks like a Pete fan to me
10-21
Sunny014
Legend
Naaa
Believe it or not, Federer and his fans are the best friends that Pete has got today
If anybody considers Pete on par with the Big 3 or close then it is the Federer Fanbase.
Nadal+Djokovic fanbases consider him worse than Agassi, they ask why he never won clay and how useless he was on clay. Nobody thinks 90s was diverse conditions, they think Modern day players would be passing Pete all day when he came to the net, thats how they view Pete
So you are a fool Petehammer if you bash Fed, you should actually be selling the idea of how Fed and Pete are the real GOATs ahead of the baseliners, how you sell Pete better than Fed, thats stupidity
Prove it
Looks like a Pete fan to me
10-21
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-their-pet-slam-surface.695647/#post-15233725
(Nadal got lucky that his master was injured so he could vulture in USO)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...s-back-strong-era-again.692816/#post-15126192
(2017-2018RG - weak vulture era)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...nd-interesting-to-watch.693553/#post-15151917
(Nadal could vulture there)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...good-if-he-was-a-righty.695050/#post-15208146
(Might vulture a USO)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...he-best-year-of-the-00s.691780/#post-15087044
(another Fed vulture year.)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...vedev-from-the-baseline.691215/#post-15066022
(to vulture a couple more USO)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-return-in-doha-march-8.688954/#post-14968276
(vulture 250 titles)
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...o-much-since-2008.688435/page-3#post-14952443
(vulture a bit in 2017)
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Everything I said was accurate.
we've been talking about respect & making this place welcoming to new users
if you ask me, only these links should be sufficient to ban you, and this was just 30 seconds of search
imagine how much will pop up if someone puts 3 minutes of looking into your history of posting?
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Ban someone for discussing tennis?
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
DIMI_D
Hall of Fame
I missed Petros!!
ZanderGoga
Semi-Pro
It would mean, conclusively, that no one on this era was able to dominate his contemporaries, and the GOAT discussion would go back where it belongs: to players who DID dominate their contemporaries.
Sampras and Borg.
Sampras and Borg.
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
Preach. I think Nole is in this company as well if he breaks the slam record given his resume would be far more impressive than Fedal's.
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
So Nole GOAT?
Amritia
Hall of Fame
Fair question.
I see it as like a triathlon. Someone can lose in 2 of the 3 events, but if they win enough on the 3rd event, they can still win overall.
Amritia
Hall of Fame
It’s quite clear though that players prioritise winning slams over number 1 rank. Otherwise you’d see everyone with the schedule of Rublev.
Also the ranking points don’t reflect the importance of slams vs Masters 1000. Slam win is 2000 points, only double. But obviously players would prefer 1 slam over 2 masters.
Co US Open leaders are Federer,Sampras and Connors. Nadal may be better than djokovic at 4.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
But why? In a triathlon you know that each event is a part of a whole. But that‘s not true for Slams. Wimbledon is a completely separate event from the FO or the AO. For a long time players didn’t even participate in all slams.
Amritia
Hall of Fame
Right but in these days, players try their best in all 4 slams. And each slam adds up to their slam count aggregate, which is the most important metric when judging the career of an elite player.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
I think this is only true for a player like Novak or Nadal at the end of their careers, not tennis players in general.
Amritia
Hall of Fame
We can agree to disagree.
I remember when there were slamless number 1s in WTA, they were laughed at. Everyone valued Serena’s year more as she won slams.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
i feel this is a circular argument where we simply assume the conclusion (slams are all that matter).
are we saying that Nadal winning more FOs tells us anything about his tennis abilities outside of the FO? Or similarly with Novak and the AO or Fed and Wimbledon
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
you mention Serena, someone who has been #1 for a long time.
there are two interrelated arguments here.
1) are #1 records greater/lesser than slam records? I’m not focusing too much on this.
2) Is each slam its own separate event (so winning a lot in one slam tells you little about about the rest) or are they roughly equivalent (so all that matters is winning the most, no matter where you win them)
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
It will end 25-25-20
Amritia
Hall of Fame
I think they are by far the most important tournaments.
For example, ranking points are 2000 for a slam win but 1000 for a Masters 1000. Would anyone seriously swap one slam for 2 Masters?
Yes! Absolutely. There is a massive overlap in skill set between different surfaces. Any nuanced analysis would not consider them as totally separate entities.
Furthermore, I think Nadal is a superb player on hard courts & grass, better than his 7 slams on the surface suggest. AO 2012, AO 2017, W2007, W2018 were GOAT level performances. Just happened to be up against GOAT+ level performances on the other side of the net.
I also believe he was unlucky on many occasions due to injury for some hard court slams (difference between clay and HC stats exacerbated by clay being naturally kinder to Nadal’s tendonitis).
I also think Djokovic/ Fed in their prime are ATG level on clay. Their RG numbers don’t suggest that. But in reality, they have ATG attributes for clay. Great movement, exceptional groundstrokes from baseline, intelligent point construction etc.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
On the points issue I agree. But it’s what the ATP has decided
On the rest I think you misunderstand or I’m not being clear. I’m not criticizing Nadal. His non clay results by themselves would make him an ATG
my point or question is why should we think that doing very well in one slam compensates for doing relatively worse in the others. I think a lot of posters implicilty see this as the triathlon example you gave. But a triathlon is one overall event with subcomponents, unlike the slams.
no it's not, unless you talk Nadal specifically
GhostofPetros
Semi-Pro
If Fed could play up to age 40, what on earth makes you think that Nole, who is his superior in every way, would not do the same to ensure he broke the record?
You are a Nadal fan, so you are going to value what he does best more. Debating GOAT stats is subjective. It is fun, but at the end of the day everyone has their own bias. Since it is subjective then no one is right or wrong.
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