Interval training or long distance running for tennis stamina?
- Thread starter atp2015
- Start date
I think interval training should be your main focus. Long distance is good too if you're talking about non-runners view of long distance and not a runners view of long-distance which might start at a half or full marathon. For tennis, I agree with one of my former coaches and bosses that said you don't really need to run more than a 5k in one stretch when training for tennis. Do a lot of interval training and some distance running (about 5k) and you should be good.
WildVolley
Legend
This depends on the pro. Some pros, such as Gilles Simon, claim to never do distance running as part of tennis training.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
if you're gonna do distance + intervals...
you do distance to strengthen the tendons and ligaments
to prepare you for the "real" work of intervals (this is what is beneficial to tennis... anaerobic training, also trains the aerobic too)
you do distance to strengthen the tendons and ligaments
to prepare you for the "real" work of intervals (this is what is beneficial to tennis... anaerobic training, also trains the aerobic too)
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
stretch your entire posterior chain daily (achilles is connected to calf, is connected to hamstrings, is connected to lower back).
are you also overweight?
Is it just one? If so, probably a minor injury that gets aggravated. Strength training is always helpful, but if you have an injury that didn't fully heal, it might be quite difficult to completely fix that. I'm guessing it's never been problematic enough to get you to go to the doctor?
If it were me, I'd probably work in some light strength training to start, maybe body weight only and just keep track of it to see if it improves.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
Good tips @nytennisaddict , you seem to have a lot of fitness expertise! I'm on my way from tennis technique questions to fitness related - that's some progress...
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
alot of *injury* expertise... learn from my mistakes!
atp2015
Hall of Fame
lol, but seriously sorry to hear that. What would you change knowing what you know today.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
well, knowing is one thing, doing regulalry is another...
in a perfectly disciplined world:
* stretch daily... or take a yoga class, etc...
* resistance train daily... not to exhaustion... i want to do it daily (ie. if i can do 10 pullups... only do 5 daily... see "greasing the groove")... and mostly dynamic and gymnastic based resistance
* eat properly (my "achilles heel") - i already cut out most/all sugar (drinks, candy, etc...)... but carbs are still a threat (love pizza/chips/etc..!)
* intermittant fast (too many health benefits)
* not train (tennis, bjj, mma, etc...) to exhaustion... when i'm tired, quit... even if it was only 1h... so i can do it again the next day (like tennis, consistency > intensity)
* listen to my body (if it hurts, stop! no need to be a hero)
* cut out daredevil crap (eg. used to be big into snowboarding... tore my acl on a 50ft gap (about the distance from the bsaeline to the opponents service line - about 20ft in the air... come to think of it, i traced the path of a decently hit moonball)
* focus on progressions... don't jump ahead, that's how you get hurt... at worse, or at best, stunt your growth
* sleep sleep sleep (let my body heal... another "achilles heel" of mine)
No, I'm about 5' 9" and 140. So not overweight. I've never been a stretcher so I'll look into that. I've been reading about Achilles eccentric exercises as well.
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It's both of them, and it was not a problem until I started to serve and volley a lot a couple of months ago. As the match goes on they get tight and sore, especially the part at the back of the feet. I'm fine with an hour or two, but it keeps happening. I probably should get it looked.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
same thing happens when someone starts sprinting... or worse doing hill sprints...
maybe since you just start s&v'ing, where you're leaning forward (at the achilles) more, streessing your achilles - that's why it's started to happen...
Might want to give the shoes a look and see if there's any geometry issues. Some shoes have uneven insoles. I think that can exacerbate issues for some people. I like a very flat base for my foot. I don't need my shoes changing the way my foot works.
Also, you may just be over working them with the change in play. They may just need some time to recover. May want to lay off the serve and volley every other session or something like that.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
sorta, in that s&v is very ballistic, and typically to move quickly anywhere, you lean at the ankles and "fall forward" (stretchingy our calves/achilles more than usual).
vs. at the baseline, depending on the level, it can be more of a casual shuffle, not much sprinting at all (save for the occasional drop shot)
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Neither uphill nor downhill. And not running, either: short sprints with sudden changes in direction and lunging while trying to stay balanced and still moving forward.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
"long distance" for me is once around the track.
If you want to build stamina, distance running is better. However, is that what you really want? Stamina will pay off over a longer time period; it won't help you reach that ball out in the alley.
I'm thinking the majority should be short, bursty stuff and some stamina work. I've never tried to quantify it: maybe 80/20? I don't have long, drawn out, 2+ hour matches, though. Being the S&V type, my matches usually end quickly [for better or worse]. The scenario I'm thinking of, however, is a tournament when you have to play 2 or 3 rounds in one day. Stamina definitely pays off then.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@atp2015 @Big Bagel @nytennisaddict
Some mistakenly believe that tennis is primarily (or exclusively) an anaerobic sport and, as such, does not require aerobic stamina. This is simply not true for competitive players. I have posted links to a couple of high performance manuals in the past that indicate that 40% or more of energy needs for elite tennis players are met by the aerobic system. The heart rate can actually stay in the aerobic target range for a significant portion of a match -- but this does not mean that players, at any given time, are ever deriving 100% from their aerobic system. Usually, an elite singles player could be deriving 40-60% of their energy need from 2 different anaerobic systems.
Bottom line is that high level players will often develop a good aerobic base (for aerobic endurance) and will also incorporate some types of interval training (to develop anaerobic fitness). Some forms of HIIT (possibly, Tabata) might develop both the aerobic and anaerobic systems for some individuals. High responders can adequately develop aerobic as well as anaerobic from some forms of HIIT. Low responders can develop anaerobic but not aerobic. However, most of the population is probably somewhere between these 2 extremes. They may derive some aerobic benefit from HIIT, but may require some additional conditioning from other aerobic cardio exercise (like long distance running).
Some mistakenly believe that tennis is primarily (or exclusively) an anaerobic sport and, as such, does not require aerobic stamina. This is simply not true for competitive players. I have posted links to a couple of high performance manuals in the past that indicate that 40% or more of energy needs for elite tennis players are met by the aerobic system. The heart rate can actually stay in the aerobic target range for a significant portion of a match -- but this does not mean that players, at any given time, are ever deriving 100% from their aerobic system. Usually, an elite singles player could be deriving 40-60% of their energy need from 2 different anaerobic systems.
Bottom line is that high level players will often develop a good aerobic base (for aerobic endurance) and will also incorporate some types of interval training (to develop anaerobic fitness). Some forms of HIIT (possibly, Tabata) might develop both the aerobic and anaerobic systems for some individuals. High responders can adequately develop aerobic as well as anaerobic from some forms of HIIT. Low responders can develop anaerobic but not aerobic. However, most of the population is probably somewhere between these 2 extremes. They may derive some aerobic benefit from HIIT, but may require some additional conditioning from other aerobic cardio exercise (like long distance running).
atp2015
Hall of Fame
"long distance" for me is once around the track.
If you want to build stamina, distance running is better. However, is that what you really want? Stamina will pay off over a longer time period; it won't help you reach that ball out in the alley.
I'm thinking the majority should be short, bursty stuff and some stamina work. I've never tried to quantify it: maybe 80/20? I don't have long, drawn out, 2+ hour matches, though. Being the S&V type, my matches usually end quickly [for better or worse]. The scenario I'm thinking of, however, is a tournament when you have to play 2 or 3 rounds in one day. Stamina definitely pays off then.
Primarily a baseliner and 2 hr is my usual length. Now many matches are getting into 3rd set because I have started winning the first set in most matches and tired out in the second set and before I known it, I'm in the 3rd set. So I need to build some stamina to close out in 2 sets.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
How much running have you done in the past?
If the answer is none or not much, just start out trying to do something everyday. Consistently will be the biggest key at the start. If you can do this, you can build from there.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
Dynamic stretching and yoga 7 days a week for 20 minutes, resistance and light weights 4 times a week. No running of any sort. So need to add some sort of endurance/stamina workout because getting tired in 2nd set.
OlgaOM
Rookie
Warm up calfs and feet before matches, and gentle stretching and foam rolling afterwards.
OlgaOM
Rookie
rrortiz5
Rookie
THIS. I had a full rupture of my achilles 10 years ago and it was 100% due to lack of stretching lower back and hamstrings. Also mine tore on a day where I was about 2 weeks into 5x a week workout regimen (sprinting and weightlifting) with being out of shape prior to starting. Listen to your legs and if they are very sore best to take the day off.
TagUrIt
Hall of Fame
Interval training is more effective for playing tennis. By doing H.I.T.T. (high intensity interval training) you will simulate the start and stop action of playing a tennis game. You will also develop stamina as a result of doing this style of workouts over just running for hours on end (which for me is a waste of time).
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
how does one determine if the they are low/high responders?
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TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Intervals most effective.
If you have some fat on torso, (we all have, but its often a little too much there) intervals is one of the few things that will remove fat from this area.
If you really want to get into this a well balanced diet important as well.
If you have some fat on torso, (we all have, but its often a little too much there) intervals is one of the few things that will remove fat from this area.
If you really want to get into this a well balanced diet important as well.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Yes
time_fly
Hall of Fame
Spot-on. I'd add that the distance training also helps you complete the interval training because you will recover more quickly and fully between intervals if you have an efficient cardio base. I was a competitive runner for a long time but have cut back to save my joints ... be aware that you can do some of the cardio base-building with non-impact activities like swimming or elliptical machines in order to save wear-and-tear. But you need to do some running to prepare your body for running more intensely.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
best exercise i’ve ever done to lose weight are call “put downs”...
put down that donut
put down that pizza
put down that beer
put down that cake
put down that ice cream
if you do enough reps through out the day, every day... you will lose weight faster than intervals (or any exercise)
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TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Im not so sure of that when it comes to belly fat which is the hardest to remove. I agree for rest of the body though.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
there's no such thing as targeted fat removal (aside from lipo)
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Cutting back on simple carbs and sugars is probably one of the fastest ways of reducing belly fat.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
That is most important of course.
Depends on the goals, if into fitness i think others understand what i am talking about.
I almost took it for granted people on this forum not that overweight.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'll take the over [or is it the under?]: I'd bet the majority are overweight but only by a small amount [maybe 5%]. For guys, that usually means a spare tire.
The problem with @nytennisaddict's putdowns is that we love our carbs.
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
i'm in the 5% category
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
i'm in the 5% category
If you do a putdown while watching a Rodney Dangerfield video, does it count double?
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Deleted member 23235
Guest
sure. just like eating a salad negates the 3 double bacon cheeseburgers and large pizza pie i had for breakfast and dinner
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@atp2015 @TagUrIt
Note that a high-responder is AKA a super-responder while a low-responder might be called a non-responder.
(Note: last 3 links below are different sources of the same study)
NY Times: Is Your Workout Not Working? Maybe You’re a Non-Responder
https://cathe.com/are-you-a-high-responder-or-low-responder-to-aerobic-exercise/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-014-0197-3
ResearchGate: High Responders and Low Responders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24807838
.
Note that a high-responder is AKA a super-responder while a low-responder might be called a non-responder.
(Note: last 3 links below are different sources of the same study)
- While the majority of people can expect to see (some) improvements in their aerobic fitness (VO2MAX), about 15% can expect drastically improved results (super-responders) while about 20% of the population may not see any benefit at all (non-responders).
NY Times: Is Your Workout Not Working? Maybe You’re a Non-Responder
https://cathe.com/are-you-a-high-responder-or-low-responder-to-aerobic-exercise/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-014-0197-3
ResearchGate: High Responders and Low Responders
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24807838
.
I've noticed that a lot of interval training allows people to coast through. They pick an intensity that feels really hard, but isn't enough to get the desired result. There has to be some measurement to quantify when you're working hard enough or not as opposed to just sprint or run fast.
For example, a lot of runners will incorporate interval training with guidelines based on their 10k pace.
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