Is Djokovic really playing that well?
- Thread starter Underdog
- Start date
RS
Bionic Poster
Yes not consistent favourites that is impossible barring Fedal as you said but what would to many lower Djokovic slam count to some by like half in that period.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
if peak grass Murray and A014 Stan (and so on) all played at the same time, yeah, maybe. But that's not realistic
The point is that post 2018 Novak is playing at a very very high level. The fact that it's not peak Novak is not really relevant. This is a much more focused Novak, mentally stronger, that has lost some tools but also gained others.
Tennis pros and coaches have been saying this for a while. Only in TTW do you find people claiming he's really not that good and only wins because the competition sucks
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Underdog
Professional
Wow, what a coincidence! HahahaIs Djokovic really playing that well?
Granted, I've been a little busy so I haven't watched too much but people are saying Djokovic is back to his peak. I'm not sure if I really see that. He's playing well, but he has a worse field than he did even in 2015-2016 (relatively weaker years but top heavy) so that can make his results...tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Familiar question
RS
Bionic Poster
No. These guys are not considered ATG’s but anyone who is has been championed by the forum to dominate this era very easily and win everything Djokovic won.
But individually you have a lot of people who would fancy them to take Slams of 2018-2023 Djokovic if they were against him. I am not saying I agree or disagree with it.
RS
Bionic Poster
Well Stan would be taken as 13-17 till his injury so it isn’t even just one year it is 4. Doesn’t mean he wins but because he bested Djokovic in Slams in that period he could do so to 18-23 Djokovic to those who think that he did it to a better Djokovic (not everyone agrees)
I don’t think Djokovic just wins because the competition he does obviously still play at a high level. That wasn’t what I venturing into though but sure some people think it.
Underdog
Professional
I think the predominant aspect here is mentality. I don’t think the guys who I think could be favourites against post 2018 Djoko (prime Delpo, Stan, Murray, Hewitt, Roddick) would necessarily crush the current field, they are not exactly way better players, but I think they wouldn’t crumble as much in front of Novak. It’d be more like they’d have similar outcomes versus Djokovic as they’d have against say Sinner.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Given the ludicrously slow & homogenised contemporary default courts and balls and the curse of poly that have stifled attacking play and reduced tennis to a hybrid of squash where glorified pushing reigns supreme, and the relative difficulty of past achievements has been rendered moot, it’s hard to make meaningful comparisons. Novak is playing remarkably well for his age, but in halcyon days of yore a player of his dotage would have struggled against specialised conditions/surfaces players competing in their preferred elements.
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DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks for rhus post as I needed a good laugh .
Novak is just pulling further and further away from Roger and Rafa they won't even be in same conversation soon unless Rafa can produce a miracle next year
RS
Bionic Poster
Hewitt probably still wouldn’t have a great chance but in particular with Wawrinka this is true he has nearly every tool to trouble Djokovic and he can keep it up for most of 4 hours if need be
TOTAL NONSENSE, OR WISHFUL THINKING
sportsfan1
Legend
Alcarazs game and fitness has been off since Wimbledon, he's won no tournaments at all and has been pushed to 3 sets and even beaten outright by low ranked players.
No one else can compete consistently or play the big moments right. A 37 year old just has to show up with a decent serve and get the wins
No one else can compete consistently or play the big moments right. A 37 year old just has to show up with a decent serve and get the wins
CoolCoolCool
Hall of Fame
Lol.
longtimelurker
Professional
Wishful thinking like the other posts just more fancier words. Whatever the situation would have been Novak would have grown with that tempo and adjusted accordingly.
He’d have the CYGS if he didn’t miss an overhead lol
pirhaksar
Professional
Well had he won Wimby, there’s no telling how the pressure of CYGS could have ended up at USO, plus don’t forget that seeding and draw…he would have had another shot but can’t say for sure he would have converted
Winners or Errors
Legend
No OP, it is the Career Hyper-Inflation Era (CHIE) and he is the last great player standing. For outlasting his rivals, especially Nadal, he gets to feast on weak competition, so weak that a guy he has been routining for a decade+ was his latest finals opponent and has had a great year at age 32. He's declined but has no one in front of him who can take advantage of it.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
When is this going to end?
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
On fast courts, he serves really well and then wins enough close sets with his GOAT aura 7-5 or 7-6. He doesn’t need to be the best baseliner to win indoor tournaments and he certainly wasn’t against Rublev. Testament to his greatness that he has improved his serve so much to win in his old age like Federer who was also winning a lot of matches at a similar age.
When he is not ill like he was this week, he can still be one of the top 2 baseliners in the world along with Alcaraz especially as he is bludgeoning his FH at a much higher pace for most of this year.
When he is not ill like he was this week, he can still be one of the top 2 baseliners in the world along with Alcaraz especially as he is bludgeoning his FH at a much higher pace for most of this year.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Lol I didn't know that. I call him novak human wallovic. Didn't know he literally considers himself a wall LOL
I consider it an insult though because its basically the highest level of pushing which is easier than low margin for error amazing shots
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Yes, cuz we all know how well that went for Wawa this year at the Wimbledon and last year at Rome masters! LMAO
tennisjedi
Hall of Fame
His mental strength is like the peak of Mount Everest and the rest of the next gen's mental strength is like the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean.
He just has to play steady percentage tennis and wait for his opponents level to drop and he pounces on them and takes their soul.
He just has to play steady percentage tennis and wait for his opponents level to drop and he pounces on them and takes their soul.
MrFlip
Professional
Alcaraz barely won in 5 at Wimbledon and so far this season Djokovic has cruised to every title win.
MrFlip
Professional
I meant in the past he could, not anymore.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
Yep, self-confessed pusher.
Yep, self-confessed pusher.
It's a game to hit back the ball in the court anyways.
Or else you can always play cricket and hit the ball out of the park
Djokodalerer31
Hall of Fame
Only Djokovic did it more than once...Both Agassi and Nastase did it only once in the past and nobody else did it even once...
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
But it takes higher level aggressive shotmaking skills to pull off a Federer style than relying on being a grind machine human wallovic
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
I think this is true and I hope Nole demolishes the field this year. Let there be no doubts.
I wonder how they measure it
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Is there a forehand version of this? We already knew djokovic backhand is league of its own
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
It shows both
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Oh lol I only noticed it saying backhand on the left
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
One thing I'll give Djokovic credit for is he's clearly the best ever at letting the opponent defeat themselves lol... For example that Shapo grand slam match (2021?) he was outplayed every set until the most important points then wins those to take the set. Or even vs Federer wimbledon 2019 just letting him miss and beat himself like 1st set tiebreak
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Well it’s a part of the game. You Fedal fans don’t see it though. A big part of the game is also winning not at your best or winning tight matches. Being able to adjust tactics and stay mentally strong when the match isn’t going your way.
This is where Djokovic excels above Fedal. He can fight through matches much better. Whereas when Fed had an off day he was in bigger danger of losing,
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Yea I know that, thats a large part of why he wins the most matches... but as a fan thats not nearly as interesting as hitting amazing shots to win. I don't care about just winning thru sheer mental strength or whatever
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Fair enough. I can understand if it’s not your cup of tea or you don’t find it interesting. Respect though as at least you give him respect for winning these type of matches.
tennis_error
Professional
Pheasant
Legend
Djoker is clearly still at a ridiculous level; even today. He's the best in the world. And my theory is that he trains better than anybody that I've seen in recent years. I can't prove it. But his results as an old player tell me that his dedication to training is incredibly rare. The guy looks like a cyborg. He's chiseled. He looks perfect for the sport. He's the perfect height and weight to be able to play 16+ years at near-peak level, which is why he has shattered nearly all of the longevity records(records of excellence; not merely playing).
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Its not that he trains better its that he siphons energy from pyramids!! Its the legal alternative to performance enhancing drugs. He gets performance enhancing energy instead.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
A poster posts stats that Djokovic has by far the highest ATP shot quality on FH and BH this year amongst the top 8 far above the tour average. The next two posters then totally ignore this and say that Djokovic does whatever it takes to win or just outlasts his opponents.
TTW, never change!
TTW, never change!
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Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
But look how low Alcaraz is on the graph doesn't make sense, if he was so inferior he wouldn't have defeated Djokovic in wimbledon, pushed him to the brink at cincinnatti etc. and rivaling him for year end #1
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