Is his style of play the main reason people underrate Med?

[travlerajm]

I think it’s pretty obvious that Medvedev has been, and still is, very underrated.

As evidence for that, he was a heavy underdog for the US Open final, despite almost every recent statistic suggesting he had already far surpassed Djokovic in level during the year.

And people keep comparing him to Zverev and Tsitsipas as if those two are the same level? But he completely owns those guys in the last 2 years.

And even after his victory in the slam, it seems like plenty of naysayers are saying that he only won because his draw was weak.
That’s a strange thing to say about a guy who posted the most dominant us open tournament stats in history - higher than peak Mac, higher than peak Pete, higher than peak Fed, higher than peak Rafa, and higher than peak Djoker.

So my question is:

Is his style of play the reason? And what exactly about his style makes people think he’s less good than he actually is?

 

[Novichok]

He’s a boring MUG pusher with a serve.

 

[travlerajm]

He’s a boring pusher mug with a serve.

If he goes on a tear and wins 5 more slams in the next two years, will you still feel that way?

 

[socallefty]

His shots look awkward and are almost unwatchable for me aesthetically - so, I watch very few of his matches and only when his opponent is someone I like to watch. He got under-rated in the past because he is also in the bottom 10% of the top 100 on the ATP for topspin RPM as he hits so flat.

Everyone including me keeps thinking that he can’t keep up his consistency against other top players due to the lack of spin, but he seems to have no problem in long rallies and they have more problems with his flat shots.

 

[Kralingen]

AO21 final really hurt his standing around the tennis world I think. People forget but Med&Djokovic were almost even odds heading into that final.

That and he is crap on clay and barely tries there. Thus he was heavily underrated coming into the NA HC season, it’s as if people forgot that he had one of the most dominant winters ever last year.

his deep return position, his lack of forecourt game and variety, bizarre looking strokes, and pusher mentality makes the tennis purists really upset around here as well. In terms of today’s game though he’s quite effective on the lower bouncing HCs and is so tough if he serves well.

I think his serve is the most heavily underrated shot in the game. Placement wise it’s quite elite and he has great disguise and variety.

 

[MurraysMetalHip]

I think it’s his hair.

 

[Novichok]

If he goes on a tear and wins 5 more slams in the next two years, will you still feel that way?

ROFLMAO. This bipolar talentless pusher will never win RG or Wimbledon, no matter how many MUG draws they give him. MUGdvedev.

 

[Slicehand]

What if not... personally i like how flat he hit his strokes compared to the other guys, something diferent to see

 

[travlerajm]

ROFLMAO. This bipolar talentless pusher will never win RG or Wimbledon, no matter how many MUG draws they give him.

Exhibit A of underrating

 

[aldeayeah]

Nah, he was adequately rated, then he started being underrated when he laid an egg in the AO final.

 

[travlerajm]

Nah, he was adequately rated, then he started being underrated when he laid an egg in the AO final.

But what about now?

 

[Novichok]

But what about now?

Saved tennis from the ultimate humiliation by not choking in that second set. Let’s see how long he can carry on before reverting to his MUG ways.

 

[NatF]

He's got the game to be very consistent but unless his serve is firing I don't think he has the aggressive footwork, ballstriking or strokes to hurt a prime ATG.

 

[travlerajm]

He's got the game to be very consistent but unless his serve is firing I don't think he has the aggressive footwork, ballstriking or strokes to hurt a prime ATG.

Exhibit B of underrating

 

[aldeayeah]

But what about now?

Main reason people underrate him now are his mental meltdowns such as the camera affair. But those rarely stop him from beating who he should.

 

[Standaa]

He's got the game to be very consistent but unless his serve is firing I don't think he has the aggressive footwork, ballstriking or strokes to hurt a prime ATG.

they don't exist anymore

 

[coolcamden]

He sneaks up on people with his Amazing speed around the court. His strokes are absolutely bizarre looking, he’s lanky (skinny?) . He picks his Wang (in a subthe way, not like RN). Those traits turn people off, until all of a sudden he’s beaten (name a favoite player) 2,2,and 2.

 

[Third Serve]

they don't exist anymore

yeah that's why he's a Slam champ

 

[ballmachineguy]

If you used software to remove the ball, and you just saw his serve and strokes without the results, anyone with experience watching professional tennis would be like “what the hell is wrong with this guy!”

 

[Goof]

He was underrated due to his ugly strokes, the fact that he doesn't look like an athlete, and his total bombs against Thiem in USO 2020 and Novak in 2021 AO. Now that he has won a big trophy in dominating fashion against Novak, no tennis fans/media will ever underrate him again. The general public who doesn't pay any attention to tennis always will though for the first two reasons I listed.

 

[DjokoLand]

they don't exist anymore

Also a prime ATG as in big 3, Sampras etc are the greatest ever so not being able to beat them isn’t really a insult.
Med is a cracking player on HC and is underrated but another reason is the rest of next gen are awful that he gets thrown in with them so he seems worse

 

[Djokodal Fan]

Boring player. That's probably why ! Look at the traction he got after his US open title compared to that teen wonder wta winner...

 

[mrravioli]

His shots look awkward and are almost unwatchable for me aesthetically - so, I watch very few of his matches and only when his opponent is someone I like to watch. He got under-rated in the past because he is also in the bottom 10% of the top 100 on the ATP for topspin RPM as he hits so flat.

Everyone including me keeps thinking that he can’t keep up his consistency against other top players due to the lack of spin, but he seems to have no problem in long rallies and they have more problems with his flat shots.

I'm really interested in how he and his coach developed his technique, especially his forehand. Some of his shots are a huge NO for any coach coaching a kid but somehow they managed to make it work, to the level of grand slam winner

 

[socallefty]

I'm really interested in how he and his coach developed his technique, especially his forehand. Some of his shots are a huge NO for any coach coaching a kid but somehow they managed to make it work, to the level of grand slam winner

I have a suspicion that he was a stubborn head-strong kid who didn’t listen to his coaches. As long as he got results in the juniors, his parents and coaches probably let him get away with it.

 

[Spin Diesel]

I think it’s pretty obvious that Medvedev has been, and still is, very underrated.

As evidence for that, he was a heavy underdog for the US Open final, despite almost every recent statistic suggesting he had already far surpassed Djokovic in level during the year.

And people keep comparing him to Zverev and Tsitsipas as if those two are the same level? But he completely owns those guys in the last 2 years.

And even after his victory in the slam, it seems like plenty of naysayers are saying that he only won because his draw was weak.
That’s a strange thing to say about a guy who posted the most dominant us open tournament stats in history - higher than peak Mac, higher than peak Pete, higher than peak Fed, higher than peak Rafa, and higher than peak Djoker.

So my question is:

Is his style of play the reason? And what exactly about his style makes people think he’s less good than he actually is?

As others said, I think a lot has to do with the way his playing looks! If you only saw his strokes and not where the ball is going, you could think he was an amateur. Again and again, I‘m wondering, how his shots manage to land where they do.

His playing is also a great demonstration of how depth and placement most of the time is more effective than power and spin.

Another point could be his lack of using heavy spin, while most people try to hit as much spin as possible.
Thinking about this actually helped my game as well. When hitting heavy spin I need a lot of energy to make my shots fast enough to be effective and it‘s harder to time the ball perfectly. And a flatter shot can pass your opponent quicker.

 

[cha cha]

He was a massive odds favourite all the way up to that final.
He was playing Djokovic there, so I do not believe the 3.1 odds were unrealistic. I expected him to lose. Did you not?

 

[socallefty]

His playing is also a great demonstration of how depth and placement most of the time is more effective than power and spin.

So, every other top player hits with a lot more spin which helps them to get depth and placement easier. It takes a lot more talent to hit consistently deep and close to the sidelines without making errors while hitting flat. If it were so easy to do it, everyone would be coaching their students to hit like that. Don’t look at unicorns like MEP in rec play or Medvedev in the pro ranks and copy their style because it is different - easier to get good the conventional way.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

I think it’s pretty obvious that Medvedev has been, and still is, very underrated.

As evidence for that, he was a heavy underdog for the US Open final, despite almost every recent statistic suggesting he had already far surpassed Djokovic in level during the year.

And people keep comparing him to Zverev and Tsitsipas as if those two are the same level? But he completely owns those guys in the last 2 years.

And even after his victory in the slam, it seems like plenty of naysayers are saying that he only won because his draw was weak.
That’s a strange thing to say about a guy who posted the most dominant us open tournament stats in history - higher than peak Mac, higher than peak Pete, higher than peak Fed, higher than peak Rafa, and higher than peak Djoker.

So my question is:

Is his style of play the reason? And what exactly about his style makes people think he’s less good than he actually is?

He was underrated in betting because of his epic choke in Australia as well as his inability to play on 2/3 surfaces so by the time the summer hardcourt season rolls around you’re back to thinking of him as a mug

 

[Terenigma]

I'm not sure why people underrate him, i think it's probably because none of his tennis is "flashy" in any way and he just gets it done. It's the same sorta attitude people had towards Murray in the early days, always calling him a pusher with no weapons when it was very clear he had the weapons but didn't put them under the audience spotlight. I also think it hurts his image that he has no obvious main weapon that makes him stand out amongst the other players, he's just a very good all-rounder but that often deludes people into thinking that they're generic or not good coz they have no special move so to speak.

 

[MeatTornado]

Define underrating? Because until now he's been a guy not worth trusting at the majors. He's 25 and just now finally proved that he can handle the moment. We'll adjust our expectations accordingly from now on but he didn't deserve a higher rating until now.

He proved long ago that he has the game to win if he's on, but so have dozens of slamless players over the years. They need to step up and finally prove it before we trust them.

 

[TennisLurker]

His shots look awkward and are almost unwatchable for me aesthetically - so, I watch very few of his matches and only when his opponent is someone I like to watch. He got under-rated in the past because he is also in the bottom 10% of the top 100 on the ATP for topspin RPM as he hits so flat.

Everyone including me keeps thinking that he can’t keep up his consistency against other top players due to the lack of spin, but he seems to have no problem in long rallies and they have more problems with his flat shots.

Shouldn't that make you realize he is immensely talented since you need great aim and feel to be so consistent from behind the baseline with very flat shots?
He isn't relying on spin to make the ball fall inside the court. He has very good aim, timing and feel.

edit:
It's a shame serve and volley doesn't exist anymore, I think Rafter or Henman would punish his returning from 5 meters behind the baseline thing

 

[NatF]

Exhibit B of underrating

Think what I said is accurate tbh. The lack of explosive footwork is obvious, if he was a great ballstriker he'd play up the court more and while his strokes are good they're not good enough to hit through people from that deep behind the baseline.

 

[socallefty]

Shouldn't that make you realize he is immensely talented since you need great aim and feel to be so consistent from behind the baseline with very flat shots?
He isn't relying on spin to make the ball fall inside the court, just his aim.

Yes, he is extremely talented - see my post#27. Does it mean I should automatically want to watch his matches and be entertained by them? I could care less about how talented he is as looking at his shots makes me feel like I’m watching something ugly especially when he is returning from near the fence. I never liked watching Nadal play either - his pirate pants, sleeveless neon tops, retrieve everything style and standing 15 feet behind the baseline just doesn’t appeal to me stylistically. That doesn’t mean I question their greatness as tennis players - both Nadal and Med are just low on the scale of being entertainers for me. Nadal’s shot style at least looks pretty unlike Medvedev.

Remember that these are highly subjective opinions, but I would much rather watch Federer and Djokovic bashing the ball on the rise from close to the baseline. I might be biased in this respect as that is the style I play too - stand very close during both returns and rallies and I feel that those who play far back are very passive. A Federer-Djokovic match is a must-watch for me while a Nadal-Medvedev match means that I am heading out to the beach or the tennis court.

PS: I did not watch the 2019 US Open final.

 

[mike danny]

Exhibit B of underrating

I mean, he's not wrong. But that's mainly because we'll have no way of knowing since he won't be facing any prime ATGs.

 

[travlerajm]

He was a massive odds favourite all the way up to that final.
He was playing Djokovic there, so I do not believe the 3.1 odds were unrealistic. I expected him to lose. Did you not?

Go look at my other recent threads.

 

[Spin Diesel]

So, every other top player hits with a lot more spin which helps them to get depth and placement easier. It takes a lot more talent to hit consistently deep and close to the sidelines without making errors while hitting flat. If it were so easy to do it, everyone would be coaching their students to hit like that. Don’t look at unicorns like MEP in rec play or Medvedev in the pro ranks and copy their style because it is different - easier to get good the conventional way.

While Medvedev is using less spin than other pros, he‘s still using it to help his shots land in. It‘s not like his shots are completely flat.
When I focus on hitting with maximum spin, I don‘t do it for the margin of error but for making the shot more difficult for my opponent. I actually hit more consistent with using less spin than that.
I just think a lot of hobby players focus too much on getting as much spin as possible. At least that‘s what I used to do.

 

[duaneeo]

I think it’s pretty obvious that Medvedev has been, and still is, very underrated.

Is his style of play the reason?

HC specialist Medvedev was "underrated" because of the 5-set loss to Nadal at 2019 USO, straight-set loss to Thiem at 2020 USO, 4-set loss to Djokovic at 2019 AO, 5-set loss to Wawrinka at 2020 AO, and straight-set loss to Nole at 2021 AO.

 

[cha cha]

Go look at my other recent threads.

I see. Well done.
Hope you made the bet then. 3.1 odds do not just grow on trees.

 

[aldeayeah]

Shouldn't that make you realize he is immensely talented since you need great aim and feel to be so consistent from behind the baseline with very flat shots?
He isn't relying on spin to make the ball fall inside the court. He has very good aim, timing and feel.

edit:
It's a shame serve and volley doesn't exist anymore, I think Rafter or Henman would punish his returning from 5 meters behind the baseline thing

I mean Rafa goes to the net a ton against him, so does Djokovic

 

[travlerajm]

So, every other top player hits with a lot more spin which helps them to get depth and placement easier. It takes a lot more talent to hit consistently deep and close to the sidelines without making errors while hitting flat. If it were so easy to do it, everyone would be coaching their students to hit like that. Don’t look at unicorns like MEP in rec play or Medvedev in the pro ranks and copy their style because it is different - easier to get good the conventional way.

I’m not so sure about that.

 

[travlerajm]

Think what I said is accurate tbh. The lack of explosive footwork is obvious, if he was a great ballstriker he'd play up the court more and while his strokes are good they're not good enough to hit through people from that deep behind the baseline.

He’s not a great ball striker. But he’s a great baseliner.

 

[aldeayeah]

He’s not a great ball striker. But he’s a great baseliner.

Just like TTW's favorite Gilles Simon!

 

[socallefty]

I just think a lot of hobby players focus too much on getting as much spin as possible. At least that‘s what I used to do.

Do you play on clay? I play on hard courts and never see anything like that. I see 4.5+ players who hit with a lot of spin and good pace - they need the high spin to keep the ball in the court. Then I see the rest who are making tons of errors anytime they try to inject pace because they don’t have enough spin.

Only on this board I hear of these urban legend players who hit with ‘too much‘ spin and not enough pace. If you are talking of slow moonballers, they just hit a high trajectory - their balls have less than 500rpm and are more like slow lobs.

 

[travlerajm]

PS: I did not watch the 2019 US Open final.

You missed a classic. It had everything.

Med executing serve and volley on second serves to save breaks points and match point. Nadal playing arguably the best hardcourt match of his career, with the best slices he’s ever hit.

Topped off by the best loser’s speech of all time, with Med going from villain to crowd hero Rocky IV style .

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Wake up when he plays a Nole that isn't gassed in a slam again or doesn't have a draw where FAA is his toughest opponent . LOL. You'll see how overrated Med currently is

 

[Spin Diesel]

Do you play on clay? I play on hard courts and never see anything like that. I see 4.5+ players who hit with a lot of spin and good pace - they need the high spin to keep the ball in the court. Then I see the rest who are making tons of errors anytime they try to inject pace because they don’t have enough spin.

Only on this board I hear of these urban legend players who hit with ‘too much‘ spin and not enough pace. If you are talking of slow moonballers, they just hit a high trajectory - their balls have less than 500rpm and are more like slow lobs.

I play on clay mainly but in winter a lot on hard courts as well.

I can‘t remember seeing anyone hitting with too much spin consistently but people hitting inconsistent depth, because some shots have too much spin, or not enough power for the amount of RPMs.

 

[socallefty]

I play on clay mainly but in winter a lot on hard courts as well.

I can‘t remember seeing anyone hitting with too much spin consistently but people hitting inconsistent depth, because some shots have too much spin, or not enough power for the amount of RPMs.

Ok, that’s a common issue when players generate spin only with their arm focusing on a vertical swing path only. Then, they have too many shots where they wait for the ball, make late contact and lack any forward penetration to get depth. Good players use their legs (knee bend) and body rotation including forward weight transfer to drive the ball with enough forward energy to inject pace/depth in addition to topspin. I sometimes have that issue on my BH when my legs get tired and I get to the ball too late to use my body properly so that I start hitting up instead of forward - end up with loopy shots with spin, but not enough pace and so they drop short.

 

[Spin Diesel]

Ok, that’s a common issue when players generate spin only with their arm focusing on a vertical swing path only. Then, they have too many shots where they wait for the ball, make late contact and lack any forward penetration to get depth. Good players use their legs (knee bend) and body rotation including forward weight transfer to drive the ball with enough forward energy to inject pace/depth in addition to topspin. I sometimes have that issue on my BH when my legs get tired and I get to the ball too late to use my body properly so that I start hitting up instead of forward - end up with loopy shots with spin, but not enough pace and so they drop short.

Yeah but it can happen as well, when you‘re on the run and you just can‘t transfer your weight into the shot. These are shots, Medvedev is really good at.

 

[accidental]

He is just the best of a really poor generation, that’s why he doesn’t get much respect at this stage.

If it were 2015 Medvedev in his current form would be about 6th favourite for the title, probably wouldn’t even reach the semis. He would be behind the big 4, Wawrinka, and maybe Cilic

 

[Bartelby]

No one is saying that he only won because the draw was weak, but to ignore things like the draw and the age differential is absurd.

You even published a thread which argued that heat would be the main reason for a Medvedev victory, so that in itself is a massive underrating of Medvedev.

I think it’s pretty obvious that Medvedev has been, and still is, very underrated.

As evidence for that, he was a heavy underdog for the US Open final, despite almost every recent statistic suggesting he had already far surpassed Djokovic in level during the year.

And people keep comparing him to Zverev and Tsitsipas as if those two are the same level? But he completely owns those guys in the last 2 years.

And even after his victory in the slam, it seems like plenty of naysayers are saying that he only won because his draw was weak.
That’s a strange thing to say about a guy who posted the most dominant us open tournament stats in history - higher than peak Mac, higher than peak Pete, higher than peak Fed, higher than peak Rafa, and higher than peak Djoker.

So my question is:

Is his style of play the reason? And what exactly about his style makes people think he’s less good than he actually is?