Rabe87
Professional
Yes another Fraud-erer conspiracist who claims his man peaked for 3-4 years and no result thereafter matters. Can you at least post something original not trivial drivel please.
Is this really Peak Djokovic?
- Thread starter Towny
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BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I agree. I am one of those who doesn't give one damn about stats and just a player's form on watching them. Djoker may have had a higher winning percentage in 2015, but he's never played at such a dizzying level as 2011.
Indigo
Professional
He doesn't want to play so hard all those masters and other tournaments like in 2011 and in 2015. He doesn't have much to prove now. He is already accomplished players, one of the best in the history of sport. As stated couple of days ago by his coach Vajda, they are going for GS record now which also includes record in number of weeks at No.1. So priorities are different. Novak's only priority now is GS record i.e. ultimate GOAT record, to be the best forever in tennis.
From what I understood, his other big objective would be the elusive Calendar Year Grand Slam.
From what I see, he's clearly not "peak" anymore - only his AO 19 F could be considered peak level, and he's fallen behind since; consistency is missing. Still is strong enough to win big titles for sure.
Djokodal Fan
Hall of Fame
It is perfectly fine to lose a player who is younger then you by 10+ years and has more miles to put on his legs.
Not sure why Fed fans are so peeved about Fed's loss in wimbledon finals. Fed is a great player and Novak played slightly better at key moments to win the title. Nobody even questions about Fed's greatness.
The Guru
Legend
Disagree completely. Yes his serve is much better but Djokovic used to have much more offense in his game. I used to actually consider him an offensive baseliner and now he often can't hit through opponents and relies way more on his defense. This Djokovic would get stomped by 2011 Djokovic.
Rabe87
Professional
To be fair you can't really go off eyesight considering yours is fading in your advanced age.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
This is all about all fedals wins count none of their losses count. All of djokovics losses count none of the wins count. Hypothetical fed was is invincible. Fedal fans do not like a match therefore it is null and void and a trash match. On and on and on yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah. The stench is fetid. The corpse is rotted.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Has Felix even won a title yet? I'd be careful about hyping any young prospect these days.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Compared to 2011 he is a much more complete player. He does so many things better. This is not even up for question.
Compared to 2015, they are basically the same, but I'd say 2018-2019 Nole is better mentally and few details of his game has improved.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
His forehand is more solid than 2015. He has stated numerous times he has had to adapt in his 30s. I refuse to play the age excuses. It is lame. Play the damn game. Man up.
Shu-Pak
Rookie
2011 = freak year. Not peak. Ultron mode year.
2014-2015 = peak years
2018 (second half) - 2019 = peak mental years.
Nole is saving his body as he is getting older and for good reason. He is focusing on slams which is the smartest thing he can do at this point. NO need to expend extra energy on winning every single tournament. I think he is trying new things during the M1000's and other such tournaments to see what works and what doesn't and tweak until the slams come around. Then it's game on....which he proved in AO and SW19 this year.
Mental peak at this point in time.....will he sustain it for long? Let's see.
2014-2015 = peak years
2018 (second half) - 2019 = peak mental years.
Nole is saving his body as he is getting older and for good reason. He is focusing on slams which is the smartest thing he can do at this point. NO need to expend extra energy on winning every single tournament. I think he is trying new things during the M1000's and other such tournaments to see what works and what doesn't and tweak until the slams come around. Then it's game on....which he proved in AO and SW19 this year.
Mental peak at this point in time.....will he sustain it for long? Let's see.
powerangle
Legend
I think each stage of Novak is different:
1) 2011 Novak was young and boisterous and played at physically the highest level.............***he is still far behind in the records and is establishing himself as a contender***
2) 2015 Novak was mature and knew how to be a winning machine.............***he is gaining massive ground on the all-time records***
3) 2018-2019 Novak is aging and is preserving his body.............***he is approaching the "finish line" with the records finally in sight***
1) 2011 Novak was young and boisterous and played at physically the highest level.............***he is still far behind in the records and is establishing himself as a contender***
2) 2015 Novak was mature and knew how to be a winning machine.............***he is gaining massive ground on the all-time records***
3) 2018-2019 Novak is aging and is preserving his body.............***he is approaching the "finish line" with the records finally in sight***
powerangle
Legend
I wouldn't be so sure as he's getting it "no matter what". He is a fave to do it and likely, IMO...but not 100% certain. Things can turn on a dime, as we have seen in the past. Post FO 2016, it had looked impossible for Novak not to end that year at number 1, but we all know what happened...
This past Wimbledon was huge. If Fed had converted either of his CPs, it would have been a huge 1600-ranking points swing in the "race to Wimbledon 2020 points"
vex
Legend
No one in thier right mind thinks this is any kind of peak compared to the ridiculous peaks he already had. He’s on the downslope of his prime. Still at a general level of play that exceeds that of anyone but Fedal’s peaks but more prone to upsets from lesser players due to increased “off days”. For instance he somehow survived an off day against Fed on Sunday. Skin of his teeth
Nadal_Django
Legend
Djokovic's peak periods: 2018-19 > 2015-16> 2011
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
This Djokovic is not getting stomped at all. Sure, he relies on defense when his A game is not working but don't pretend that he didn't give one of his most offensive baseline performances of his career this year in the AO final.
powerangle
Legend
This. Fed is almost 38 and still lost very marginally and played great tennis. Why do some of his fans try to find excuses for him? His racket did the talking for him and he played superbly even for a much younger great player, let alone for almost being 38 years old. Federer himself wouldn't try to find excuses like some of his fans do.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
More interestingly, he's clearly better than in 2012, 2013 and 2014, years smack in the middle of his prime. That his results today are worse than in 2011 and 2015 have more to do with self-preservation than anything else, I bet. He doesn't need to win everything, and to seriously try to do so has mental and physical costs so cheapest he focus on the slams.
His Baseline game was more swashbuckling during 2011 to 2014 , His game became very measured and accurate during 2015-16 and he very well knew when to peak,Post 2018, his game remains very measured and accurate, he damn well knows when to peak and he has a very good serve now. Might be his Baseline game is not as dominating though.
Miss those swashbuckling days of his. Some of his hittings were just GOAT level, Not even picking examples of 2011, but 2012 RG Final Middle, that was some of the GOAT level hitting and Momentum shift. The way he used to dismantle Nadal on Rome, Monte Carlo was just special. I think nobody apart from him can manage to do that to Nadal. GOAT level comeback in 2012 US Open Final. GOAT level play in 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon Final. GOAT level play in 2015 US Open Final.
There are just countless example of his GOAT Level play.
Miss those swashbuckling days of his. Some of his hittings were just GOAT level, Not even picking examples of 2011, but 2012 RG Final Middle, that was some of the GOAT level hitting and Momentum shift. The way he used to dismantle Nadal on Rome, Monte Carlo was just special. I think nobody apart from him can manage to do that to Nadal. GOAT level comeback in 2012 US Open Final. GOAT level play in 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon Final. GOAT level play in 2015 US Open Final.
There are just countless example of his GOAT Level play.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
How do seemingly smart people like yourself manage to believe this stuff, amazing.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
It's hardly an amazing revelation or one that is even remotely far-fetched. How do seemingly smart people like yourself manage to disbelieve this stuff, amazing.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Claiming an ATG player (not the kind who wasted his talent for many years like Stan) somehow must be overcoming the loss of their physical prime is as far-fetched as it gets. Anything to prop up BOATov1c, isn't it?
upchuck
Hall of Fame
Literally all three players have been talking over the years about the steps they have taken to preserve their bodies.
But you are too hardened in your fandom for whoever to see reason.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
I was referring to the former paragraph, you silly mug. Better than in 2012-14, yeah boiii magical thinking. Neither more consistent (yes self-preservation plays a role too, why? age!) nor better at current peak.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
No but he is much closer to his prime/peak than the other 2 members of the Big 3.
Standaa
G.O.A.T.
2011ovic played sexi aggressive tennis. Greatest baseline game of all time.
2015ovic was a borefest by comparison.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
Maybe you should write more clearly.
Djokovic is clearly better mentally now than he was in 2012, 2013, 2014. Whatever the state of his body/game compared to then, that has more than helped him be better overall than in those years.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
How is he better mentally? Won two matches saving MPs, but both after choking / mugging up big time to even get that close to losing, and Fed's a renowned choke artist and ancient at that so it's not that unbelievable. Some both tennistically and mentally better comp in 2012-13. 2014 was a downer in terms of clutch I agree I guess.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
It is known that '12 - '14 Djokovic struggled mentally, winning just 1 of 6 slam finals at one point because of subpar play for his standards. By contrast, he rarely makes it that far in slams anymore and play poorly.
RaulRamirez
Legend
As we've discussed on other threads, I don't get too worked up over what is peak and what is prime, and all three of The Big 3 have helped to redefine what prime and peak is. Somewhat.
2011 Novak may have been his most electric period, when he ascended to the throne in dominant fashion. The tennis world wasn't (yet) used to him taking it to Roger and Rafa like that. His baseline game was more aggressive than in 2015-16 - which may have been the best year of play that I've seen, with Fed and Johnny Mac, and Rafa all in the running.
His best results were in 2015-16, and of course, if we extend the timeline through FO16, we get the only 4-in-a-row since 1969. This may have been Novak's best 12-16 month stretch which can match or exceed anyone's. He had the same speed as in 2011, and while not quite as aggressive, he seemed to be smarter tactically.
Today, we only really see "that guy" in briefer stretches, and both of his Wim18 and AO19 wins over Rafa could hang with his best from '11 or '15-16. Is this because he's trying to peak for majors, and saving something for those runs, or because he can't keep up that high level for a full season?
2011 Novak may have been his most electric period, when he ascended to the throne in dominant fashion. The tennis world wasn't (yet) used to him taking it to Roger and Rafa like that. His baseline game was more aggressive than in 2015-16 - which may have been the best year of play that I've seen, with Fed and Johnny Mac, and Rafa all in the running.
His best results were in 2015-16, and of course, if we extend the timeline through FO16, we get the only 4-in-a-row since 1969. This may have been Novak's best 12-16 month stretch which can match or exceed anyone's. He had the same speed as in 2011, and while not quite as aggressive, he seemed to be smarter tactically.
Today, we only really see "that guy" in briefer stretches, and both of his Wim18 and AO19 wins over Rafa could hang with his best from '11 or '15-16. Is this because he's trying to peak for majors, and saving something for those runs, or because he can't keep up that high level for a full season?
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
We've just seen it in the last two slams. Yes Fed outchoked Djo on Sunday, doesn't change it. Disastrous stretches in 2nd and 4th set for no good reason.
Today’s Djokovic barely beat 37 year old Federer who was spraying FHs everywhere on most crucial points in the match.
If this was 2012 again the match would’ve been over in 4, and he wouldn’t have a walkover in the AO final either.
He’s doing what he needs to do to win, but weaker opponents than 2012-2013 are the main reason for better results. Not a higher level. Pretty much the same reason Fed won 2 slams in 2017 and 2012.
If this was 2012 again the match would’ve been over in 4, and he wouldn’t have a walkover in the AO final either.
He’s doing what he needs to do to win, but weaker opponents than 2012-2013 are the main reason for better results. Not a higher level. Pretty much the same reason Fed won 2 slams in 2017 and 2012.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
The comparable year for Nole today is fed’s 2013. And 2019 Nole is playing much better than 2013 Fed.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
Djoko can still play at peak levels like when he dismantled Nadal at the 2019 AO final. He beat him as bad as a top ten player would beat an ATP challenger. It was a very hard match to watch being a Nadal fan.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Like 2011 Federer was miles better than 2017 Djokovic, that's no revelation.
It'd be hilariously tragicomic if 2019 Djokovic plays worse than 2011 Federer at 3/4 slams yet wins 3 slams to 2011 Fed's 0 :lel:
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
I was just trying to compare players at similar ages. 2017 Nole was much worse than 2011 Fed but didn’t win anything in any case. 2019 Nole is two years older than 2011 Fed so not directly comparable, at least when adjusting for age.
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