Just ban clay

[Defcon]

Clay used to have a place because it was a slow surface, and stood for point construction, defense and a different style of play.

But nowadays all surfaces are slow. All clay does is punish any attacker and reward endless grinding with zero variety.

It's the same style of play you see now at AO, except at FO it's slower. More grinding and truly no variety.

This whole situation came about because the clay court specialists started whining about any surface with speed, boycotting Wimbledon, and starting the myth tha fast courts damage players.

 

[90's Clay]

I think they should ban these new rackets with the poly strings. Then we will have some fun.

These rackets give the ability to the play to smack winners by anyone from anywheres on the court.

Take them away and see what happens.

Off note, I got an extensive collection of Sampras exos over the past few years in my library, and upon observation, you RARELY ever see his BH breaking down with the new rackets as opposed to the old Wilson Pro-Staff back in the 90s that he had.

Yep Ban the rackets

 

[hawk eye]

talk about whining..

It's getting better and better.

 

[Gandalf]

All clay does is punish any attacker and reward endless grinding with zero variety.

I recommend you start a petition. Title it I want variety, I don't care if you win or lose. I wonder how the pros didn't realize so far that they need to play to please the crowd, and not to win.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

They will phase out clay soon enough. Just be patient.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

Clay used to have a place because it was a slow surface, and stood for point construction, defense and a different style of play.

But nowadays all surfaces are slow. All clay does is punish any attacker and reward endless grinding with zero variety.

It's the same style of play you see now at AO, except at FO it's slower. More grinding and truly no variety.

This whole situation came about because the clay court specialists started whining about any surface with speed, boycotting Wimbledon, and starting the myth tha fast courts damage players.

Easy solution: non-clay specialists can avoid the season--in the way you said the clay-courters used to boycott Wimbledon.

 

[sureshs]

So predictable when the GOAT wins one more Slam

 

[jmverdugo]

Also tennis players should not be allowed to do any strength and or endurance training...:-?

 

[90's Clay]

I dont know about banning clay in general but they need to ban Nadal from playing clay. Its just not fair

 

[namelessone]

Clay used to have a place because it was a slow surface, and stood for point construction, defense and a different style of play.

But nowadays all surfaces are slow. All clay does is punish any attacker and reward endless grinding with zero variety.

It's the same style of play you see now at AO, except at FO it's slower. More grinding and truly no variety.

This whole situation came about because the clay court specialists started whining about any surface with speed, boycotting Wimbledon, and starting the myth tha fast courts damage players.

Let's see, this year the QF at THE clay event were Federer,Tsonga,Haas,Djokovic,Nadal,Ferrer,Wawrinka.

Say Nadal/Ferrer are the no talent grinders that you talk about. That leaves six guys that aren't grinders per se, including 3 with one-handers. In fact we had a record amount of one-handers this year's RG going through to the late stages.

Clay is so slow nowadays that a guy like Gulbis can hit nearly 60 winners on it in a 2 out of 3. Guys like Soderling can make finals in RG.

In regards to variety, it's the other way round, it's tough to make outright winners on clay so you need to move your opponent arond and try to wrongfoot him as often as you can. Best example, see Serena-Sharapova yesterday, Sharapova bashed the ball constantly like she was on a hardcourt whereas Serena mixed it up at times, angled her off court and confused Maria.

If you wanna get rid of slow surfaces, why get rid of the only one that favours point construction more, not to mention being the oldest? Get rid of the slow HC, either make it medium-fast or turn it into grass. Clay season is fine as it is. I guarantee that people will like it more once Nadal's domination on it is over.

 

[Dutch-Guy]

Not a single Rafa supporters complained about grass when Fed won his 7th Wimby last year. You Fed worshippers should learn from us. You're tired of clay becoz the "wrong" guy (for you ) owns it lol. Don't like it then don't watch it, as simple as that. Constantly whining about it won't change ****.

 

[Cosmic_Colin]

Not a single Rafa supporters complained about grass when Fed won his 7th Wimby last year. You Fed worshippers should learn from us. You're tired of clay becoz the "wrong" guy (for you ) owns it lol. Don't like it then don't watch it, as simple as that. Constantly whining about it won't change ****.

It's not all of us Fed supporters that believe this. He's been pretty handy on clay, winning titles including a slam, so I don't think we would want him to lose it.

I actually think slow hardcourts are worse than clay. I don't know why, but the matches seem even more one-dimensional. Nadal-Djokovic FO semi was more entertaining to watch than the Djokovic-Murray AO final.

I'd be happy if we had an extra grass tournament or two, and if some of the hard courts were a bit faster. The latter change wouldn't necessarily help Fed that much, as on faster surfaces he would be more vulnerable to big hitters. It would give more variety in terms of play style and champions, though.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

How about somebody actually beating nadal.The guy that has come close is the joker.Fed always gives a lousy effort.

I actually love clay for the reasons u stated.point construction.Its also doesn't hurt ur joints like say the hard court

 

[ACE of Hearts]

All the courts have changed including the u.s open.I never thought the u.s open would slow their courts or maybe they are using larger tennis balls.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Not a single Rafa supporters complained about grass when Fed won his 7th Wimby last year. You Fed worshippers should learn from us. You're tired of clay becoz the "wrong" guy (for you ) owns it lol. Don't like it then don't watch it, as simple as that. Constantly whining about it won't change ****.

You must have missed the threads about the roof, haven't you?

Besides, why would they complain about Federer's win?

1) The grass has been slowed, which is to Nadal's liking and
2) Nadal lost in the 2nd round, so they were still shell shocked to base a decent attack on anything but Nadal's own inability to win.(they tried though, but only the injury excuse flew (well at least for them) and that because it always does in Nadal's case)

 

[Defcon]

Clay is fine if the other surfaces are fast. But with everything being slowed down, clay has no point anymore. There's no pint construction going on, those who bother to do so and try to finish points just watch their winners being returned as its too slow.

The only tactic is to grind, wait for errors, or wait for a loose ball. Clay court matches are uniformly the most boring as far as tennis quality goes.

 

[Defcon]

And I'm sure as soon as the HC season starts. Nadal will once again start with the complaints about clay season needs to be longer and how HC is 'destroying the game'.

 

[Rocky89]

Let's be honest, the only reason you guys are complaining and hate clay is because Nadal is so successful on it.

/thread

 

[Devilito]

clay was awesome in the 90s because it gave baseliners a chance to demonstrate their skills. Grass and indoor carpet favored serve and vollyers while hardcourts was a good balance between the two. The reason why clay is so terrible now is because everyone is a baseliner regardless of surface so there is absolutely no need to slow down a sport that doesn't need to be slowed down. On faster surfaces, lesser players have an opportunity to get on a hot streak and create upsets. On clay upsets are almost impossible, making it predictable (aka boring)

 

[Defcon]

Let's be honest, the only reason you guys are complaining and hate clay is because Nadal is so successful on it.

/thread

No. It's always been a boring surface. There's a reason you still have clay court specialists, I.e. players who can't play anywhere else.

 

[Defcon]

clay was awesome in the 90s because it gave baseliners a chance to demonstrate their skills. Grass and indoor carpet favored serve and vollyers while hardcourts was a good balance between the two. The reason why clay is so terrible now is because everyone is a baseliner regardless of surface so there is absolutely no need to slow down a sport that doesn't need to be slowed down. On faster surfaces, lesser players have an opportunity to get on a hot streak and create upsets. On clay upsets are almost impossible, making it predictable (aka boring)

Well said. There is no reason for clay to exist anymore except for clay court specialists.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Nooooo.Clay should exist.My problem is slowing down other surfaces.There is a reason why each slam was unique.Now they are all slow.

 

[beast of mallorca]

They will phase out clay soon enough. Just be patient.

No. It's always been a boring surface. There's a reason you still have clay court specialists, I.e. players who can't play anywhere else.

Well, if whining and crying in misery because Rafa won can get you thru the day, then by all means, WHINE away. I love it !!!

Vamos Rafito ........:twisted:

 

[hoodjem]

This whole situation came about because the clay court specialists started whining about any surface with speed, boycotting Wimbledon, and starting the myth tha fast courts damage players.

When was this?

 

[Defcon]

Nooooo.Clay should exist.My problem is slowing down other surfaces.There is a reason why each slam was unique.Now they are all slow.

Yes,if they speed up grass and HC then by all means keep clay. That's my entire point. And in fact we should have more grass, it's the most player friendly surface by far.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

If you ban clay, Nadal will become a Martyr...His legend will become mythical. They will write about him centuries from now...And then came a raging rampant bull from Mallorca called Rafael Nadal, who was so good on clay that they retired the surface in his honor.

 

[mellowyellow]

I dont know about banning clay in general but they need to ban Nadal from playing clay. Its just not fair

He as banned for 7 months....

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

I think they should ban these new rackets with the poly strings. Then we will have some fun.

after all, the spaguetti racquet had been banned, so... why not......

 

[mellowyellow]

When was this?

All of Nadals senior contemporaries did it, Moya,, Corretja, Costa etc. throw some south Americans to boot, Changing of the guard in 2001 or so, all throughout the late 80's and 90's.

 

[mellowyellow]

after all, the spaguetti racquet had been banned, so... why not......

The tennis now is certainly a mockery of the rule, seems the executives need to reexamine the course tennis has taken since the late 80's...

 

[mattennis]

All of Nadals senior contemporaries did it, Moya,, Corretja, Costa, throw some south Americans to boot, Changing of the guard in 2001 or so, all throughout the late 80's and 90's.

They complained about the seeding system at Wimbledon (WB was the only tournament that didn't use the rankings to seed players), not about it being too fast.

Corretja, Kuerten, Moya...could be top-5 players in that moment and Wimbledon left them out of the (then) 16 seeds, so they could have to play against, say, Sampras in the first round.

From 2001 (or so, I can't remember the exact year now) WB decided to use both the ranking AND the points obtained on grass the previous two seasons (weighting them in a certain way) and they extended the seeds from 16 to 32.

After that, the other three GS also started using 32 seeds (but they used exactly the ATP ranking to make the seeds).

 

[skip1969]

i'm not sure if the op was really serious, but i'm with devilito. the clay court season was a chance to see the baseline style prevail (on most occasions). and you got to see construction at the highest level. it was the precision of baseline.

then the big contrast came grass right afterwards, and the precision of net play. some fans preferred one over the other. but you knew your preferred style had an edge at each slam. and obviously the players knew it too. the hardcourt slams used to be the eveners, where anybody had a fair shot.

so it's the surfaces, yes. but it's also the fact that the very top guys pretty much play the same, regardless of surface.

 

[Bud]

Mary Carillo thinks the professional game should go back to wood racquets and natural gut... a two-tiered system of equipment similar to baseball. She, McEnroe and Navratilova were discussing it at length during the FO

 

[ACE of Hearts]

I don't know if the would be much difference.Maybe more serve and volley and u wouldn't see winners being blasted from the baseline lol

 

[Clarky21]

No. It's always been a boring surface. There's a reason you still have clay court specialists, I.e. players who can't play anywhere else.

I bet you wouldn't find it boring if Fed dominated the surface.

 

[Defcon]

I bet you wouldn't find it boring if Fed dominated the surface.

It has nothing to do with Fed. To win on clay you need to play grinding, boring tennis. It's always been this way.

 

[single_handed_champion]

All the lazy hate aside, I kinda agree that the level of play itself is uninspiring these days. However, it is partly because we have become desensitized to amazing gets and ridiculous passing shots and winners from the baseline considering how everyone does it nowadays.

I watch someone like Andy Murray now, and he seems like a really competent top-4 player: serving big, moving well and neutralizing baseline rallies, spanking winners when needed. Even Federer is like that in most of his matches, with an occasional touch of class. Basically at the top you need less flash and more solid play that wears down opponents.

Why is it so? I am sure the remaining posts here will have their theories, including technology, courts, training methods etc.

 

[mellowyellow]

I question what the powers that be have done here. Its so obvious what goes on at the top, what kid sees this type of tennis and thinks this is what they are going to play like? Its uninspiring for the youth. No kid I have ever come across wants to be a grinder/baseliner for 3-5 hr matches. Who that is coming through the juniors is looking to play like these guys? Fix the surface homogenization, make grass and clay both 2 masters 1 slam seasonsand be on even terms, 2 masters before AusO, 2 masters befor USO. Limit the tech in tourney play and test, test, test using blood not urine...

 

[Mainad]

I dont know about banning clay in general but they need to ban Nadal from playing clay. Its just not fair

How hollow that would rend anybody else's victories on that surface if the best player on it was banned from competing!

 

[Defcon]

How hollow that would rend anybody else's victories on that surface if the best player on it was banned from competing!

I'm sure banning Rafa was sarcasm

But really at the top level these days, grinding is the only option, and it's he only safe option. Instead of working on your attacking shots, if you spend the same time on defense and fitness, you'll win more matches, due to surface speeds today. So it makes sense people have adopted that style.

And clay is where this is most obvious, although grass is not far behind (I.e ahead) in terms of speed.

 

[gsuede]

Play it on Har tru clay surface but much faster more winners less grinding

 

[ser_renely]

Mary Carillo thinks the professional game should go back to wood racquets and natural gut... a two-tiered system of equipment similar to baseball. She, McEnroe and Navratilova were discussing it at length during the FO

They wouldn't shut up about it. The game has progressed, they are having a hard time with the changes. I can grab a 20 year old racquet and old strings and hit the ball almost as good as with my new gear. I don't see as big a difference as they do with the equipment.

I do see actual stud athletes playing tennis now. I think that is the reason for the change more than anything.

Tennis will change again. It has gone through a number of revolutions.

 

[syc23]

Just as Wimbledon will never be played on any other surface than grass, Roland Garros will always be played on clay.

Deal with it.

 

[TennisandMusic]

They wouldn't shut up about it. The game has progressed, they are having a hard time with the changes. I can grab a 20 year old racquet and old strings and hit the ball almost as good as with my new gear. I don't see as big a difference as they do with the equipment.

I do see actual stud athletes playing tennis now. I think that is the reason for the change more than anything.

Tennis will change again. It has gone through a number of revolutions.

Then you're not using the new stuff right. It's so different it's not even funny.

Also, the old stuff is completely inferior. The people clinging to that are just showing their age. It's so weird to hear people so adamantly admitting they are old dogs and happy about it. I can't believe announcers are still doing this. If it were ME I'd be saying "I wish I had played in THIS era, it's completely amazing." Better to embrace the improvements as they come.

 

[ser_renely]

Then you're not using the new stuff right. It's so different it's not even funny.

Also, the old stuff is completely inferior. The people clinging to that are just showing their age. It's so weird to hear people so adamantly admitting they are old dogs and happy about it. I can't believe announcers are still doing this. If it were ME I'd be saying "I wish I had played in THIS era, it's completely amazing." Better to embrace the improvements as they come.

no I am using it correctly.

 

[axel89]

IMO lets ban grass grass is for people who suck and can't use the basline

 

[Overdrive]

Ha, I actually thought Monfed made this thread. :lol:

 

[rh310]

IMO lets ban grass grass is for people who suck and can't use the basline

I guess you never saw Connors, Borg, Agassi, or Wilander play Wimbledon. Among so many others.

 

[mellowyellow]

no I am using it correctly.

For what? Dubs indoors, yea not much difference playing in those parameters, nobody hitting wood with gut from the baseline the same as a pro staff 90/95, or a Bab 100 in APD, or Roddick model.... Hey, you sick buddy? maybe post after high fever and delusions are gone.

 

[TenS_Ace]

Don't ban clay!! Just bring back the gawd awful tight white tennis shorts, wood racquets and white tennis balls...that would make most posters here happy NO?? :twisted: