Klip Armour Pro : questions about tension and using it in a hybrid

[monologuist]

I got a set of the Klip Armour Pro 17 and was wondering, for those of you who are experienced with it :

1. If I hybrid it with a cheaper string in the crosses (either a multi or synth gut), will it still retain its resistance to movement that is attributable to the coating? If I hybrid it, most likely the string I use will end up being more slippery, and I had heard that the coating on the Armour Pro allows the string to "lock in" better than most guts, but maybe it won't make a difference if it is crossed with a more slippery cross?

2. In terms of tension/power, how does it compare to "normal" guts like Klip Legend or BDE Performance? How about compared to a poly like ALU Power or Signum Plasma?

Thanks in advance!

 

[NoBadMojo]

If you would do a search, I've posted a lot about this string, but maybe you are looking for other opinions...I've been using this string for about 6 months now

 

[monologuist]

If you would do a search, I've posted a lot about this string, but maybe you are looking for other opinions...I've been using this string for about 6 months now

I read your posts about this string...I didn't see any info posted by you about how well it resists movement using a synthetic cross or multi cross versus full Armour Pro....you said that the strings lock in well and don't move much, but it I wasn't clear as to whether that was in a full-aArmour Pro job or hybrid....

I also didn't see anything comparing its power to the polys I mentioned; I believe you said you weren't sure b/c you don't like or use polys. I did see that you compared its power/tension to regular Legend; needs to be strung a couple lbs. lower right?

I noticed you have it crossed with a Klip multi...can you compare this setup to full Armour Pro in terms of string movement and feel?

 

[NoBadMojo]

I read your posts about this string...I didn't see any info posted by you about how well it resists movement using a synthetic cross or multi cross versus full Armour Pro....you said that the strings lock in well and don't move much, but it I wasn't clear as to whether that was in a full-aArmour Pro job or hybrid....

** No quite as good in this respect w. a multi, but still good depending upon the tension of course. havent tried it with a PSG type of string. The durability and tension holding is so great I've just been stringing it straight up lately..i was fraying and breaking the crosses w. Excellerator before the mains even began to fray and I almost never break a cross.

I also didn't see anything comparing its power to the polys I mentioned; I believe you said you weren't sure b/c you don't like or use polys. I did see that you compared its power/tension to regular Legend; needs to be strung a couple lbs. lower right?

** Yes it isnt quite as powerful as the reg Klip Legend. if you were to give this string a fair prestretch and string it up on the tight side, you would have many of the benefits of poly sans the drawbacks. ie; strings dont move, very spinny, low powered so you can swing out w.o much fear of going long if you have spin control, but it wont beat your arm and doesnt lose tension nearly as fast as polys

I noticed you have it crossed with a Klip multi...can you compare this setup to full Armour Pro in terms of string movement and feel?

 

[monologuist]

NBMJ,

So would this be a fair assessment of relative powers/tensions (all other factors remaining the same; no pre-stretching)?

Klip Legend Regular : 60 lbs.
Klip Armour Pro : 58 lbs.
Klip Excellerator : 56 lbs.
PSG w/Duraflex : 54 lbs.
Klip Kboom (ALU Power-like) : 52 lbs.

I'm excited to try this string out. I would have tried it earlier, but I was using an 18x20 frame, and anything over 18g. is not quite spinny enough for me in a dense pattern. I'm experimenting with 16x19 again, so I went with the Armour Pro 17g., which sounds like it would be a nice complement; given that it has a bit less power, more spin, more durable, less movement than normal gut. From you're saying, it sounds like Armour Pro may have greater durability and less movement than multis and synthetic guts...maybe straight Armour Pro setup would be the ideal. I'm a bit afraid to pre-stretch though...not that experienced doing it and I've screwed up guts before that way.

 

[barney]

I recently strung up Klip Armour Pro 16ga (mains) with Laserfibre Classic Syn. Gut 16 in the crosses. I strung both 2lbs lower than normal. (I probably should have strung my crosses at my normal tension.) I did not pre-stretch. (I normally do not like to pre-stretch strings.)

The Armour Pro strings up very nicely, unlike any other gut I've ever strung. If I didn't know AP was gut, I wouldn't have guessed it from the way it looks or strings, except for the knot tie-offs, where there was some typical gut like kinking.

I've only hit with this hybrid a couple of brief times. There was very little string movement. I thought this hybrid played very crisply and powerfully, without the feel or control I normally get from my VS or BDE hybrids. Maybe I should have done a pre-stretch, which I'll be sure to do in my next hybrid string job. If I can get it to play close to ALU Power (without the arm harshness), it will be my string of choice.

 

[monologuist]

I recently strung up Klip Armour Pro 16ga (mains) with Laserfibre Classic Syn. Gut 16 in the crosses. I strung both 2lbs lower than normal. (I probably should have strung my crosses at my normal tension.) I did not pre-stretch.

The Armour Pro strings up very nicely, unlike any other gut I've ever strung. If I didn't know AP was gut, I wouldn't have guessed it from the way it looks or strings, except for the knot tie-offs, where there was some typical gut like kinking.

I've only hit with this hybrid a couple of brief times. There was very little string movement. I thought this hybrid played very crisply and powerfully, without the feel or control I normally get from my VS or BDE hybrids. Maybe I should have done a pre-stretch, which I'll be sure to do in my next hybrid string job. If I can get it to play close to ALU Power (without the arm harshness), it will be my string of choice.

interesting...so you're saying Armour Pro/Laserfibre Synthetic Gut hybrid felt more powerful than VS or BDE hybrids with the same cross but 2 lbs. lower tension for both? That would suggest that the Armour Pro is nearly the same power as BDE or VS...maybe if you had strung it at your normal tension, it wouldn't have seemed any more powerful? Or perhaps Mojo's assessment of Armour Pro's power is assuming pre-stretch (he suggested a couple lbs. lower than "normal" guts for same power).

what tension did you string at BTW?

Good to hear that the Armour Pro still wasn't moving much even with a synth. gut cross. I was afraid it would since most synth. guts are more slippery than the Armour Pro itself.

How do you like Laserfibre Synthetic Gut? I usually use Gosen OG Super Micro as a cross with gut, which has served me well for the most part. The Gosen loses a couple lbs. tension over many sessions, not too bad for a synth. gut....not enough to become too loose/powerful or anything....usually my gut mains break first.

 

[barney]

interesting...so you're saying Armour Pro/Laserfibre Synthetic Gut hybrid felt more powerful than VS or BDE hybrids with the same cross but 2 lbs. lower tension for both? That would suggest that the Armour Pro is nearly the same power as BDE or VS...maybe if you had strung it at your normal tension, it wouldn't have seemed any more powerful? Or perhaps Mojo's assessment of Armour Pro's power is assuming pre-stretch (he suggested a couple lbs. lower than "normal" guts for same power).

Yes, I would say that the AP/LF hybrid played more crisply and powerfully than my normal VS or BDE hybrids, but maybe that impression is related to the less control, feel and ball-pocketing that I also felt. Perhaps Armour Pro has a break-in period before I get the control, feel and ball-pocketing. However, I'm sure a tighter tension and/or prestretch would likely have helped. I generally don't like to prestretch, which I feel stretches the life out of a string, but I know that others find it beneficial with certain strings. Maybe this is one string that needs it. I'm going to follow Mojo's suggestion next time. I really like to idea of having poly playing characteristics, without the poly drawbacks. I'll be very interested in hearing your take on AP.

what tension did you string at BTW?

I normally string at 60 to 62lbs. I strung this hybrid at 58lbs.

Good to hear that the Armour Pro still wasn't moving much even with a synth. gut cross. I was afraid it would since most synth. guts are more slippery than the Armour Pro itself.

I only hit with this hybrid briefly a couple of times, but the strings really didn't move during my hits. I also don't see any sign of string fraying yet, which is one of my biggest gripes with nat.gut. But I think its too soon for me to make judgement on that yet.

How do you like Laserfibre Synthetic Gut? I usually use Gosen OG Super Micro as a cross with gut, which has served me well for the most part. The Gosen loses a couple lbs. tension over many sessions, not too bad for a synth. gut....not enough to become too loose/powerful or anything....usually my gut mains break first.

I like the LF syn gut. I think it plays crisply for a syn gut and it holds tension well. I also like and use Gosen syn gut (Jim Courier, Micro, Super Micro) as well as PSG.

 

[NoBadMojo]

NBMJ,

So would this be a fair assessment of relative powers/tensions (all other factors remaining the same; no pre-stretching)?

Klip Legend Regular : 60 lbs.
Klip Armour Pro : 58 lbs.
Klip Excellerator : 56 lbs.
PSG w/Duraflex : 54 lbs.
Klip Kboom (ALU Power-like) : 52 lbs.

...maybe straight Armour Pro setup would be the ideal. I'm a bit afraid to pre-stretch though...not that experienced doing it and I've screwed up guts before that way.

Yes, i think that would put these strings into relative perspective. I recommend only a gentle prestretch on the Legend and very gentle on Armour Pro, VS would get a prety vigourous one in contrast, Excellerator would get a vigorous one...KBoom likely wouldnt prestretch by hand anyway? Prestretching is all about knowing how much to give each string..i think most strings benefit from prestretching..you can prestretch the life out of certain strings and make them play boardy if you prestretch too hard I think...it's part of the art of stringing and why it is impt to find a stringer who knows this sort of stuff.

 

[monologuist]

thanks NBMJ and Barney...I'm anxious to try the Armour Pro....I will probably try it with a synthetic gut cross first with a light pre-stretch. I'll string it at my "normal" tension..around 60 lbs...if it is less powerful, I don't really care...I'm not really looking for any extra power...just don't want it to be too powerful...either way it doesn't matter that much as my topspin control has improved leaps and bounds to the point that things like a couple lbs. difference in tension don't affect me that much, as it used to only a year ago.

on an aside, isn't it funny that Nadal had his racquets mistakenly strung with a gauge smaller than usual the other day (due to a mistake on Babolat's packaging supposedly) and word was that in warm-ups, he couldn't keep the ball in the court!

 

[chex]

hey nbmj, I'm currently using a full armour pro stringjob, and I'm trying to cut the price by hybriding it with either a poly or synthetic in the crosses.
It seems that the excellerator synthetic you used breaked more often in the crosses than the armour pro did on the mains. Do you have any recommendations? A poly that holds tension well, or a durable synthetic?
I just want something that will play decently, but will last longer than the gut mains.

one other question. after I use half the gut in the mains, is it alright to leave the other half out? Should I keep it out of light? heat? humidity? can I just leave it inside my desk drawer?

 

[NoBadMojo]

hey nbmj, I'm currently using a full armour pro stringjob, and I'm trying to cut the price by hybriding it with either a poly or synthetic in the crosses.
It seems that the excellerator synthetic you used breaked more often in the crosses than the armour pro did on the mains. Do you have any recommendations? A poly that holds tension well, or a durable synthetic?
I just want something that will play decently, but will last longer than the gut mains.

one other question. after I use half the gut in the mains, is it alright to leave the other half out? Should I keep it out of light? heat? humidity? can I just leave it inside my desk drawer?

Wth the Armourpro, I recommend string it full ArmourPro. You may wish to try prince duraflex in there as a cross and see if that lasts longer. I dont think it's going to outlast the ArmourPro mains but give it a try
Desk drawer in a sealed baggie would be fine for unused gut.

 

[chex]

waiiit.. I thought this string was supposed to be slippery! My strings are practically super-glued together

ahh.. well, it plays like butter
How do you know when the coating starts wearing? I thought the coating would be white.. but the white paint nearly all came off in the middle in the first half hour of play.
My coach strung it during practice, so I only got it back after the person I was hitting with left.. (alumni, plays first doubles in college.. so he kinda hits iwth me, and coaches me at the same time)
I hit against the wall for a while.. and really liked it.
I got someone to hit with me later, but he's kinda ranked really low at our school.. so I only got a chance to return lobs..
I really liked the control and power... but I didn't get the 'pop' I usually get from my synthetic/poly hybrid.
ehh.. dunno, maybe when I get to play again on wednesday...

 

[monologuist]

incidentally, while on the topinc of string movement...this poster travelerjam just posted a bunch of stuff about how actually more string movement gives you more spin not the other way around, provided that the string returns to its original locationafter moving....he says this is why Luxilon is so revolutionary...b/c it has teflon in it, it is slippery and able to move upon impact, causing more spin, then snaps back into place after contact. I have no idea about the credibility of this theory....

 

[Stan]

travelerjam just posted a bunch of stuff about how actually more string movement gives you more spin not the other way around, provided that the string returns to its original locationafter moving....he says this is why Luxilon is so revolutionary...b/c it has teflon in it, it is slippery and able to move upon impact, causing more spin, then snaps back into place after contact. I have no idea about the credibility of this theory....

Nothing more than creative writing. Give the boy credit for thinking outside of the box though...

 

[barney]

I finally got in a good hitting session with the AP/LF hybrid, using it in a 3 set league singles match. There was virtually no string movement during the match and the AP shows virtually no sign of wear or fraying. My usual VS or BDE hybrid would have had movement and wear/fraying with the same amount of play time. This is a big plus so far for the Armour Pro.

As for playability, the AP hybrid stayed crisp throughout the match (which I liked). At the same time, it also seemed to begin to absorb the ball a bit more, which resulted in somewhat better control and a bit better feel. Not on a par with my VS or BDE hybrids, but better than my initial brief hits with it.

I'm looking forward to my next hit with it.

 

[monologuist]

I finally got in a good hitting session with the AP/LF hybrid, using it in a 3 set league singles match. There was virtually no string movement during the match and the AP shows virtually no sign of wear or fraying. My usual VS or BDE hybrid would have had movement and wear/fraying with the same amount of play time. This is a big plus so far for the Armour Pro.

As for playability, the AP hybrid stayed crisp throughout the match (which I liked). At the same time, it also seemed to begin to absorb the ball a bit more, which resulted in somewhat better control and a bit better feel. Not on a par with my VS or BDE hybrids, but better than my initial brief hits with it.

I'm looking forward to my next hit with it.

did you notice more spin than your usual gut hybrids?

 

[monologuist]

So I got to try the Armour Pro today...I put it in one of my Yonex Ti-70's with Laserfibre Synthetic Gut in the crosses. My usual setup is BDE PErformance 17 mains/Gosen OG Super Micro 17 crosses @ 50 lbs. I did the Armour Pro, sans pre-stretch, at 48lbs., a couple lbs. less at NBMJ's suggestion.

This is a very interesting string; it doesn't really feel like straight gut or liek a multi or mono synthetic either...it really is its own thing. I'm not saying it's anything earth-shattering, but it is subtly different than any other string I've tried.

Power - At 2 lbs. lower than my normal tension, I actually felt that the setup played slightly more powerful than my normal BDE hybrid. It is possible that the Laserfibre Synth gut is more powerful than the Gosen Micro, but I doubt it...it could also be due to the slightly thicker diameter of the Armour Pro (125 mm. vs. the 122mm. of the BDE), but the relationship between diameter and power seems to still be debatable. It is also possible that I wasn't actually getting any more pace my shots, just slightly more depth. In any case, the power level is close to other guts I've tried.

Feel - The Armour Pro definitely had a crisper feel than most guts. Although it is not that raw direct contact feeling of less-coated guts, I still felt like the string bit into the ball well and the touch was excellent. Despite its external crispness, I still felt a great amount of pocketing and dwell time, and I think it would be just as arm-friendly as normal gut.

String movement - even at such a low tension, string movement was minimal...however it is still early to tell...I normally don't get much string movement on my BDE hybrids until after a few outings.

Spin - I felt like I was getting a touch more spin than usual with the ARmour Pro. I'm not sure whether it was a function of the lower tension, which some believe gives more spin, the fact that it was more powerful than usual (so I might have been compensating by hitting with more spin), or it was a result of no string movement.

Durability - I hit for about an hour and a half straight with the ARmour Pro, and there was no fraying...however, I did notice that the coating was starting to rub off at the point where I make contact with the ball most often....I wonder how long the coating will actually last, and when it is gone, if the durability will be any better than normal gut.

The string I felt like it played closest to is Klip Legend 18...so I guess that's not surprising considering that underneath the coating, it's probably the same string....it is interesting that despite the extra 5mm. in diameter due to the coating, it still responded very similarly to the Legend 18. I ultimately decided against using Legend 18 b/c it actually felt too thin for me...so I'm hoping the coating does not wear off too quickly on the ARmour Pro.

With my BDE hybrids, I usually have to install string savers due to fraying after about 3 or 4 weeks...I'm able to get good life out of the BDE hybrids since I rotate at least 3 of the same racquet, and the string savers help...but I definitely prefer the feel of the stringbed without string savers. So if the coating on the Armour Pro holds up for a decent amount of time, I would consider switching...I'm not so fond of the heavier pricetag of the ARmour Pro though...7$ extra for the coating seems excessive to me, especially if the coating wears off quickly.

 

[NoBadMojo]

Durability - I hit for about an hour and a half straight with the ARmour Pro, and there was no fraying...however, I did notice that the coating was starting to rub off at the point where I make contact with the ball most often....I wonder how long the coating will actually last, and when it is gone, if the durability will be any better than normal gut.

.

Nice review. isnt this a diff string? i really doubt the coating is rubbing off, especially at this point in the game. I think what you see is a discoloration of the string where you make contact the most..for some reason the whitish coating seems to pick up dirt from the balls/court. As an experiment after the AP mains outlasted the Excellerator X;s in one frame, I replaced the x's only <taking all the right precautions ..saying this so i dont once again get attacked merely for conducting a one time experiment>..what I noticed is the coating wasnt actually wearing out as in rubbing off....the coating was notching. anyway, the AP mains still havent begun to fray in this frame..i suspect when they do, then you will get similar durability to a freshly strung bat strung w. thin guage legend uncoated. Tension maintenance really is quite excellent...better than reg gut. This string is well worth the extra 7 i think since it lasts longer and holds tension better than other premium gut strings provided you like the ball feel of course

 

[monologuist]

Nice review. isnt this a diff string? i really doubt the coating is rubbing off, especially at this point in the game. I think what you see is a discoloration of the string where you make contact the most..for some reason the whitish coating seems to pick up dirt from the balls/court. As an experiment after the AP mains outlasted the Excellerator X;s in one frame, I replaced the x's only <taking all the right precautions ..saying this so i dont once again get attacked merely for conducting a one time experiment>..what I noticed is the coating wasnt actually wearing out as in rubbing off....the coating was notching. anyway, the AP mains still havent begun to fray in this frame..i suspect when they do, then you will get similar durability to a freshly strung bat strung w. thin guage legend uncoated. Tension maintenance really is quite excellent...better than reg gut. This string is well worth the extra 7 i think since it lasts longer and holds tension better than other premium gut strings provided you like the ball feel of course

NBMJ,
it's definitely possible it wasn't that the coating was wearing off but that it was just picking up dirt or other marks...I hope this is the case...how many hours of use would you estimate that the coating lasts for? If it lasts upwards of 20 hours of so without wearing off, I'd be happy. You mentioned that it outlasted your multi crosses...I wonder if it would outlast a mono synthetic...if it does, then I could see an AP stringjob lasting me months.

I definitely did not mind the feel of the AP overall....it was nice b/c it responded pretty much the same as normal guts in terms of pocketing, trajectory, spin, comfort, despite the fact that you could tell there was an extra surface between the gut and the ball. THe only caveat I would suggest is that the 17g. plays more like an 18g. internally, since that is what it is under the coating....I don't think it responds the same as , say Klip Legend 17....maybe the AP 16 does. This tells me that the coating is successful at protecting the string but doesn't change the playing charateristics of the string wrapped inside all that much. I might even try the 16g. next time; only thing is that I'm working with an 18x20 pattern..might be too thick.