Let's talk about the word "pusher"

Powderwombat

Powderwombat

Semi-Pro
Too many players get called a pusher - I guess by clueless fans who don't understand the sport. I've seen Nadal, Djokovic, Medvedev all get called pushers. To me, a pusher is someone who maybe is just starting out and say they're playing a competition, their strokes are horrible so they rely on just bunting the ball back over the net and running everything down. Someone with developed and full strokes is not a pusher, because the term implies PUSHING, not HITTING the ball.

Why is this? First of all i don't think the term has any place in the sport - all tactics are equally valid. If you listened to some of these people, anyone who plays high percentage tennis is accused of being a pusher. For anyone who knows the first thing about this sport - consistency is the absolute foundation at all levels, and if you don't have consistency, you have nothing. Doesn't matter how hard the ball travels if you can't keep it in the court.

Is this a term that armchair tennis spectators have made up to criticise their least favourite players? Or are they the guys who play a bit on the weekend and they're the ones at your local club who are sending every 2nd ball into the back fence or bottom of the net with horrible technique? No prizes for hitting hard.

I dunno I get tired of seeing it in online discussions about players - firstly because it's not even a real thing, and there's no criteria for it. If I wanted to I could call Pete Sampras a pusher and noone could stop me. Why? Oh in my opinion he played too safe. See what I mean it's all subjective, and to label players as pushers or servebots or whatever, is just stupid. I've also seen Sampras get called a servebot too - cause he only had a serve apparently. Or is it if someone's serve is really good, he gets put in that category just to be able to talk smack about him? I don't understand because to me, only a complete and utter layman of the sport would ever entertain that Pete Sampras was a "servebot". Yet I've seen it on this very forum. Huh.

A more apt term for a player like Murray is a defensive baseliner versus more aggressive players like Federer and Wawrinka. Why is defensive play so shunned by keyboard tennis critics? It's a very important aspect of the game. Someone with Murray and Djokovic's skill of defense is to be admired, not shunned. God if you want to watch brainless ball bashing go watch Khachanov or Thiem - something I find less interesting than a defensive player, because the defensive players usually have very high tennis IQ and make the right shot more than the hyper aggressive ones.
 
Powderwombat

Powderwombat

Semi-Pro
Ivan Lendl and Andre Agassi, both thought of as power players, but were both VERY consistent from the baseline. They did not make many unforced errors. You simply cannot be a successful player if you don't have consistency, no matter how hard you hit. Agassi actually dialled back his aggression, focused on high percentage but still positive tennis, and went through the best period in his career in the 90s. Against a good player you simply cannot hit winners willy-nilly from the back of the court. It's a mug's game, that.

I was over on another forum and they were talking about how Medvedev is a pusher, asking is Johnny Mac a pusher (???), saying if you're not winning rallies in under 3 shots you're a pusher (???)

Madness. I can only conclude that a lot of people on these forums don't actually play the sport at any sort of level you could class as relatively skilled.
 
C

chrisb

Professional
Tennis ball traveling more then 78 feet is out. Hitting is a correct term in baseball and golf. Not in tennis. The wrist must not release until after contact this we all push the ball to control it. The power comes from the rate of acceleration at contactX the mass. If you hit the tennis ball you are releasing the wrist and elbow too early to scatter the ball all over the ;place
 
junior74

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
Gael Monfils was so firmly outplayed by Djokovic at US Open SF 2016 he started pushing in set 3 and won 5 games in a row and took the set. Djokovic ripped his shirt open in frustration over Monfils' loopy no pace shots - in combination with Monfils being/ acting injured between every point... It's certainly one of the strangest matches in recent years, but also an example of how pushing can break the concentration of any player, even a super-consistent champion like Novak.
 
E

EdSWright

Professional
Powderwombat said:
Too many players get called a pusher - I guess by clueless fans who don't understand the sport. I've seen Nadal, Djokovic, Medvedev all get called pushers. To me, a pusher is someone who maybe is just starting out and say they're playing a competition, their strokes are horrible so they rely on just bunting the ball back over the net and running everything down. Someone with developed and full strokes is not a pusher, because the term implies PUSHING, not HITTING the ball.

Why is this? First of all i don't think the term has any place in the sport - all tactics are equally valid. If you listened to some of these people, anyone who plays high percentage tennis is accused of being a pusher. For anyone who knows the first thing about this sport - consistency is the absolute foundation at all levels, and if you don't have consistency, you have nothing. Doesn't matter how hard the ball travels if you can't keep it in the court.

Is this a term that armchair tennis spectators have made up to criticise their least favourite players? Or are they the guys who play a bit on the weekend and they're the ones at your local club who are sending every 2nd ball into the back fence or bottom of the net with horrible technique? No prizes for hitting hard.

I dunno I get tired of seeing it in online discussions about players - firstly because it's not even a real thing, and there's no criteria for it. If I wanted to I could call Pete Sampras a pusher and noone could stop me. Why? Oh in my opinion he played too safe. See what I mean it's all subjective, and to label players as pushers or servebots or whatever, is just stupid. I've also seen Sampras get called a servebot too - cause he only had a serve apparently. Or is it if someone's serve is really good, he gets put in that category just to be able to talk smack about him? I don't understand because to me, only a complete and utter layman of the sport would ever entertain that Pete Sampras was a "servebot". Yet I've seen it on this very forum. Huh.

A more apt term for a player like Murray is a defensive baseliner versus more aggressive players like Federer and Wawrinka. Why is defensive play so shunned by keyboard tennis critics? It's a very important aspect of the game. Someone with Murray and Djokovic's skill of defense is to be admired, not shunned. God if you want to watch brainless ball bashing go watch Khachanov or Thiem - something I find less interesting than a defensive player, because the defensive players usually have very high tennis IQ and make the right shot more than the hyper aggressive ones.
Click to expand...
These courts make everyone look like a pusher.
 
J

Jonesy

Legend
This term, just like the term 'moonballer', usually means that a club player is losing matches and blaming others for his lack of proper training. Or by mad Fed fans that are tired of seeing his ancient idol losing to his rivals Djokovic and Nadal.
 
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Powderwombat

Powderwombat

Semi-Pro
chrisb said:
Tennis ball traveling more then 78 feet is out. Hitting is a correct term in baseball and golf. Not in tennis. The wrist must not release until after contact this we all push the ball to control it. The power comes from the rate of acceleration at contactX the mass. If you hit the tennis ball you are releasing the wrist and elbow too early to scatter the ball all over the ;place
Click to expand...

 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Successful 'pushers' deserve the greatest respect. After all, the object of tennis is to put the ball back across the net until the opponent fails to return it. If a 'pusher' can do that successfully then kudos to them and tough turkey to those who don't like it. If a more aggressive player can't get past a 'pusher' then that says more about their weakness as a player than it does about their 'pusher' opponent.
 
Azure

Azure

G.O.A.T.
WZfk9v.gif


This is pushing.
 
B

blai212

Hall of Fame
‘PUSHER’ refers to someone that hits with no pace during a match because they’re scared to miss. Anybody enjoy watching paceless tennis? Didn’t think so. It’s a ploy implemented by players that don’t know how to hit with pace while keeping the ball in. If you push, (you know who you are) you’re probably wondering why nobody wants to play with you. Pushing may help win matches but it is certainly no favor to the body. It is one thing to play defense when on the defensive, but it is PUSHING when u have the opportunity to hit a winner and you decide to float the ball back in safely so as to not miss. Long rallies with no end in sight will ensue when the other player decides to ‘push back’ and you’ll just end up playing marathon tennis match (if that’s your thing)
Let’s be clear, PUSHING is hitting a soft safe ball without pace, ever. Good luck finding people that want to play with you. Hitting with pace is a skill, one ignored by pushers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
L

Luke Yonex

Rookie
blai212 said:
‘PUSHER’ refers to someone that hits with no pace during a match because they’re scared to miss. Anybody enjoy watching paceless tennis? Didn’t think so. It’s a ploy implemented by players that don’t know how to hit with pace while keeping the ball in. If you push, (you know who you are) you’re probably wondering why nobody wants to play with you. Pushing may help win matches but it is certainly no favor to the body. It is one thing to play defense when on the defensive, but it is PUSHING when u have the opportunity to hit a winner and you decide to float the ball back in safely so as to not miss. Long rallies with no end in sight will ensue when the other player decides to ‘push back’ and you’ll just end up playing marathon tennis match (if that’s your thing)
Let’s be clear, PUSHING is hitting a soft safe ball without pace, ever. Good luck finding people that want to play with you. Hitting with pace is a skill, one ignored by pushers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
But if you are not a pusher and are playing a pusher then if you cant finish them off quickly then you must also be a pusher.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
chrisb said:
Tennis ball traveling more then 78 feet is out. Hitting is a correct term in baseball and golf. Not in tennis. The wrist must not release until after contact this we all push the ball to control it. The power comes from the rate of acceleration at contactX the mass. If you hit the tennis ball you are releasing the wrist and elbow too early to scatter the ball all over the ;place
Click to expand...
I think this must be my problem.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Last year, I was living in South America, and playing exclusively on red clay. The red clay turned my tennis style more extreme. I relied exclusively on slices, high deep loopy balls, occasional sneak attacks to net, and nothing in between. I got pretty good at implementing it. I was the strongest player at one of the clubs I played at, and even won the club singles championship. Whenever I referred to myself as ‘empujero’, I got a laugh, but the name didn’t take. Everyone there just referred to me as the guy who ‘corre bien.’ There didn’t seem to be any stigma attached to my style there. They had more appreciation for my ability to reach every ball on defense than they do here in the US.
 
D

Deleted member 766172

Guest
I admit I have called Murray a pusher pretty recently. But I used the word “elite”. “Elite Pusher”.
 
R

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Medvedev and Simon actually do use a pusher type strategy at times. See their AO matches with Djokovic for example.
But in general yes, it’s sour grapes
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Jonesy said:
This term, just like the term 'moonballer', usually means that a club player is losing matches and blaming others for his lack of proper training. Or by mad Fed fans that are tired of seeing his ancient idol losing to his rivals Djokovic and Nadal.
Click to expand...
Discounting your hatred towards fed and fedfans
I truly agree that whoever says djokodal are pushers, has no idea of tennis whatsoever
 
K

Kuclas

Rookie
Mats Wilander probably the most successful "pusher" in the past 40 plus years (In my opinion). But he had very little room for error. So once he peaked US Open 1988, he lost his edge and never was the same. Lendl was more of a power baseliner (same with Agassi) but Agassi's return service game also attributed to his longevity.

Brad Gilbert is probably the best known soft pusher who lasted a long time in the top 20 of men's tennis and won a lot of titles
 
D

Deleted member 22147

Guest
A pusher does not necessarily mean lack of power.

Being a pusher is all about intent. I couldn't disagree much more with the person who said Fabrice Santoro is a pusher. Did they even watch him play?

A pusher is content to basically keep the ball in play until their opponent makes an error. Djokovic and Murray are examples of players who have pushed a lot, but it's worse for them because they had the tools not to push.
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Santoro is not a pusher but rather a junk baller. He throws a bunch of unorthodox spins and shots at you. A pusher just hits deep without pace and is intent to retrieve all match without takings risks. A pusher can be a nightmare for a recreational player just developing their game. It forces you to work on your net game and overheads which a lot of people don’t do anymore. Most people nowadays and I’m guilty of it as well just want to trade topspin from the baseline. A good net game is the key to beating a pusher/retriever. Unfortunately it’s difficult to become a good net player these days without someone willing to practice with you.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Ocean Drive said:
A pusher is content to basically keep the ball in play until their opponent makes an error. Djokovic and Murray are examples of players who have pushed a lot, but it's worse for them because they had the tools not to push.
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Then that wasn't Wilander. My definition of a pusher is someone who is a defensive-minded player who gets the ball back without much intent to end the point quickly. Content to hang back and wait for the error. That's why I've never thought Murray or Djokovic were in the pusher league.
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
'Pushing' is a tactic that when used intelligently is brilliant, and displays a degree of intelligence and variety in the game that there is far too little of nowadays (this is what we have come to :-D) if you do it ALL the time, which no player of significance does, then that sucks and is lazy, cowardly, a sign of some sort of ineptitude, but again... Nobody does it. Some people just like to try and attach the label to any defensive player, which more often than not does a disservice to them.

What Nadal does, for example, with all that spin on his forehand is designed as much as anything else to in fact make it hard to hit the ball, that approach does have the same basic tenet of pushing behind it, but you look at the amount of work (spin, pace) he puts on the ball, the way he drives his backhand, the love of the down the liner, the desire to open up the court, etc. and dismissing him as a pusher is idiotic to the nth degree.
 
D

Deleted member 22147

Guest
BeatlesFan said:
Then that wasn't Wilander. My definition of a pusher is someone who is a defensive-minded player who gets the ball back without much intent to end the point quickly. Content to hang back and wait for the error. That's why I've never thought Murray or Djokovic were in the pusher league.
Click to expand...

There have been hundreds of matches were both Murray and Djokovic have been content to wait for the error.
 
fedfan08

fedfan08

Professional
weakera said:
Pusher is a word used to try to delegitimize or devalue baseline skill
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Nah, pusher is someone who doesn’t hit with authority. Wozniacki is a perfect example. I’d include Monfils too. And Roddick became one later in his career. Of course with every surface being slowed down it’s hard to play a more aggressive style of tennis when it’s harder to hit through the court.
 
T

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
fedfan08 said:
Nah, pusher is someone who doesn’t hit with authority. Wozniacki is a perfect example. I’d include Monfils too. And Roddick became one later in his career. Of course with every surface being slowed down it’s hard to play a more aggressive style of tennis when it’s harder to hit through the court.
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Finally someone who gets it - that’s how I define pushing. Of course, pro pushers sometimes have days when they do not play like pushers.

For example, Wozniacki is often a pusher against most players, but she finally won a slam when she was able to play a style where she dictated the majority of the points in the final. Her opponent in the final was Halep, and Wozniacki matches up really well against Halep because Halep also lacks weapons and doesn’t like to move forward. Wozniacki’s strokes were sharp and she could feel comfortable moving the ball side to side all match and turned the match into a physical battle of endurance running, where she ultimately had the edge.
 
6august

6august

Hall of Fame
travlerajm said:
Finally someone who gets it - that’s how I define pushing. Of course, pro pushers sometimes have days when they do not play like pushers.

For example, Wozniacki is often a pusher against most players, but she finally won a slam when she was able to play a style where she dictated the majority of the points in the final. Her opponent in the final was Halep, and Wozniacki matches up really well against Halep because Halep also lacks weapons and doesn’t like to move forward. Wozniacki’s strokes were sharp and she could feel comfortable moving the ball side to side all match and turned the match into a physical battle of endurance running, where she ultimately had the edge.
Click to expand...

I used to think Halep is a new Henin, very interlligent and both wings are strong. However it's her defensive mindset that stop her from winning Slam sooner. The FO final with Masha is a good example. Masha was always the one who pulled the trigger first, Halep had so many chances but chose to play safe. Her final vs Ostapenko is another case.

She needs Magnus Norman.
 
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