Limiting Head Size?

[Topspin Shot]

Really? When everyone used wood racquets strung with gut and they set the court dimensions and net height accordingly, who did it favor?

You apparently, or you wouldn't be running your mouth off about it.

 

[BreakPoint]

You apparently, or you wouldn't be running your mouth off about it.

Really? I was playing tennis back in 1870? :???:

 

[BreakPoint]

Those who say tennis today consists of mindless ball bashing don't know much about strategy. There is still strategy, even if you don't know what it is.

Hitting the ball as hard as you can with as much topspin as possible over and over is NOT a strategy. You don't need to have a brain to do that. That's NOT point construction nor is it trying to out-smart your opponent. Tennis was originally designed to be a game of chess on a big board. That's why the court size and net height were set as they are.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Really? I was playing tennis back in 1870? :???:

Lol. I was referring to wood rackets and gut strings in general.

Hitting the ball as hard as you can with as much topspin as possible over and over is NOT a strategy. You don't need to have a brain to do that. That's NOT point construction nor is it trying to out-smart your opponent. Tennis was originally designed to be a game of chess on a big board. That's why the court size and net height were set as they are.

You really do know nothing about baseline tennis.

 

[LapsedNoob]

Really? When everyone used wood racquets strung with gut and they set the court dimensions and net height accordingly, who did it favor?

Now that the racquets and strings have completely changed, why haven't the the court dimensions and net height also changed? They should be set accordingly to the current equipment being used. If they don't want to do that, then limit the head size back to 65 sq. in. and ban poly strings. Because those were the equipment being used when they originally set the current court dimensions and net height.

Yes really. You will be asking may top players to stop their strategies and play like a few others.

If you can't see that there is no point in debating you any longer. Good day!

 

[Topspin Shot]

Yes really. You will be asking may top players to stop their strategies and play like a few others.

If you can't see that there is no point in debating you any longer. Good day!

That's how BreakPoint operates. He writes inane posts over and over again until everyone else gives up on him.

 

[BreakPoint]

Lol. I was referring to wood rackets and gut strings in general.

And everyone using wood racquets and gut strings favors no one, just like when they set the size of the court and the height of the net. The size of the court and the height of the net was NOT set AFTER Babolat racquets and poly strings started being used. Which is why they now need to be revised to keep up with the times.

You really do know nothing about baseline tennis.

Sure, when was the last time you heard any current WTA player described as a "genius"?

 

[Sander001]

Hitting the ball as hard as you can with as much topspin as possible over and over is NOT a strategy. You don't need to have a brain to do that. That's NOT point construction nor is it trying to out-smart your opponent.

You'll be happy to know there's much more going on than that. Maybe one day when you shed your obviously nostalgic bias, you'll see that.

 

[BreakPoint]

You'll be happy to know there's much more going on than that. Maybe one day when you shed your obviously nostalgic bias, you'll see that.

No, there isn't. I know because I play against some players who play like that. No variety whatsoever. They never come to the net unless you drop shot them. They never serve and volley. They never chip and charge. They just hit the same topspin shot over and over ad naseum and hope you miss. You can be brain dead and still play like that. Oh, and they even admit to me that they would be nothing without their big powerful racquet and poly strings.

 

[Topspin Shot]

And everyone using wood racquets and gut strings favors no one, just like when they set the size of the court and the height of the net. The size of the court and the height of the net was NOT set AFTER Babolat racquets and poly strings started being used. Which is why they now need to be revised to keep up with the times.


Sure, when was the last time you heard any current WTA player described as a "genius"?

By your logic, everyone using graphite rackets and poly/hybrid strings favors no one except those fools who do nothing but complain about it.

And what on Earth does genius have to do with anything? Wait, I don't want to know. Whatever it is, a facepalm is imminent.

 

[Topspin Shot]

No, there isn't. I know because I play against some players who play like that. No variety whatsoever. They never come to the net unless you drop shot them. They never serve and volley. They never chip and charge. They just hit the same topspin shot over and over ad naseum and hope you miss. You can be brain dead and still play like that. Oh, and they even admit to me that they would be nothing without their big powerful racquet and poly strings.

Post video of these happenings mayhaps? I'd love to see you play.

 

[Rock Strongo]

And everyone using wood racquets and gut strings favors no one, just like when they set the size of the court and the height of the net. The size of the court and the height of the net was NOT set AFTER Babolat racquets and poly strings started being used. Which is why they now need to be revised to keep up with the times.


Sure, when was the last time you heard any current WTA player described as a "genius"?

So you mean some time around 1981 when Polystar released their first polyester string or 1988 when Pro Kennex released the precursor to the Pure Drive six years later, the Destiny?

 

[Sander001]

No, there isn't. I know because I play against some players who play like that. No variety whatsoever. They never come to the net unless you drop shot them. They never serve and volley. They never chip and charge. They just hit the same topspin shot over and over ad naseum and hope you miss. You can be brain dead and still play like that. Oh, and they even admit to me that they would be nothing without their big powerful racquet and poly strings.

What, you mean your little pick up tennis opponents aren't as good as the pros? Shocking revelations don't get more shocking than this!

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

So you mean some time around 1981 when Polystar released their first polyester string or 1988 when Pro Kennex released the precursor to the Pure Drive six years later, the Destiny?

I had some Pro Kennex Bronze Aces earlier than that, open string pattern, thickish beam, total cannons..

Don't respond to BP, it's pointless, see if you can find his thread about Sam Stosur if you don't believe me, it's amazing!

in fact, here, look on in awe http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=330720&highlight=Stosur

 

[tennis_balla]

This is amazing entertainment by Breakpoint. He's a few loose screws from being permanently in the nuthouse....or rather is that me losing IQ points trying to understand his posts?

 

[Rock Strongo]

I had some Pro Kennex Bronze Aces earlier than that, open string pattern, thickish beam, total cannons..

Don't respond to BP, it's pointless, see if you can find his thread about Sam Stosur if you don't believe me, it's amazing!

in fact, here, look on in awe http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=330720&highlight=Stosur

Ooh that thread! A true gem:twisted:

I got confused at first, thinking I had it opened in a private tab, but nope, 40 posts per page and still 24 pages...

And a second edit: Didn't Stosur start out more as someone who served and volleyed very often and was a doubles specialist who wasn't afraid of the opportunity to come forward?

 

[tennis_balla]

Actually, just remembered I had this photo. This is my racket, got it as a gift.

Why don't we go all the way, leather grips are too technologically advanced and take away from the true nature of the sport. They ruin the game we love!!! Ban leather grips as well!!!
I mean who doesn't love a 380gram racket flying out of the hands of a sweaty overweight weekend warrior, frisbee'ing across the net, locked on right at your head. It'll make tennis exciting. F%$k overgrips as well, too much technology, sawdust too and rosin bags. That's so 1970's! 1930's is where its at!!

 

[sureshs]

BP is right. Tennis was meant to be played on natural surfaces with natural materials, and 65 sq inch heads. Both feet should be on the ground during serves. Today's tennis is not about skill and precision, but an obscene display of power which masks the underlying lack of talent.

 

[pinky42]

But if he was really better than me, shouldn't he be able to beat me with a wood racquet? I've beaten guys using modern 100 sq. in. modern racquets before with my 65 sq. in. wood racquet. That's how I knew I was the better player, because it was way harder for me to keep the ball in play or to win points than it was for him.

You were not the better player. You were the sore loser.

If I use a badminton racquet to play against Federer, I'm not going to claim I'm the better player because it's way harder for me to keep the ball in play or to win points. Blaming equipment reeks of excuses.

 

[Topspin Shot]

I had some Pro Kennex Bronze Aces earlier than that, open string pattern, thickish beam, total cannons..

Don't respond to BP, it's pointless, see if you can find his thread about Sam Stosur if you don't believe me, it's amazing!

in fact, here, look on in awe http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=330720&highlight=Stosur

I am so tempted to bump that thread. :twisted: (But I won't.)

 

[Topspin Shot]

Actually, just remembered I had this photo. This is my racket, got it as a gift.

Why don't we go all the way, leather grips are too technologically advanced and take away from the true nature of the sport. They ruin the game we love!!! Ban leather grips as well!!!
I mean who doesn't love a 380gram racket flying out of the hands of a sweaty overweight weekend warrior, frisbee'ing across the net, locked on right at your head. It'll make tennis exciting. F%$k overgrips as well, too much technology, sawdust too and rosin bags. That's so 1970's! 1930's is where its at!!

Still too much technology. Ban strings altogether. Real men play with 100% wood. :shock:

 

[Rock Strongo]

As a chef, I say ban sous-vide and ban convection ovens. Use only fire.

 

[tennis_balla]

As a chef, I say ban sous-vide and ban convection ovens. Use only fire.

You must also only be able to start that fire rubbing two sticks together, or banging two rocks against each other. Otherwise you're not a true chef and rely too much on technology!!

 

[Rock Strongo]

You must also only be able to start that fire rubbing two sticks together, or banging two rocks against each other. Otherwise you're not a true chef and rely too much on technology!!

Pfft. Sticks!? You want me to have an unfair advantage over other chefs? I just pray to God to make the fire for me.

 

[Sander001]

I had some Pro Kennex Bronze Aces earlier than that, open string pattern, thickish beam, total cannons..

Don't respond to BP, it's pointless, see if you can find his thread about Sam Stosur if you don't believe me, it's amazing!

in fact, here, look on in awe http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=330720&highlight=Stosur

That thread is gold, love how he needs to resort immediately to a false dichotomy in the first response.

And this was awesome: "Have you ever been smacked in the face with a 100mph forehand coming off of a Babolat racquet in doubles? You could easily be blinded." lmao now we know why he hates Babolat, it's the last thing he ever saw

 

[BreakPoint]

You were not the better player. You were the sore loser.

If I use a badminton racquet to play against Federer, I'm not going to claim I'm the better player because it's way harder for me to keep the ball in play or to win points. Blaming equipment reeks of excuses.

Wait, if you beat Federer in tennis using a badminton racquet, you're not going to claim that you're the better player?

I won using my wood racquet against guys using modern graphite racquets. I think it's pretty safe to say I was the better player.

 

[BreakPoint]

By your logic, everyone using graphite rackets and poly/hybrid strings favors no one except those fools who do nothing but complain about it.

And what on Earth does genius have to do with anything? Wait, I don't want to know. Whatever it is, a facepalm is imminent.

If you have to ask, you must be a baseline basher. Not surprising for someone who chose the screen name - "Topspin Shot". It takes brains to play chess or tennis as you try to out-think your opponent. Hitting the ball with topspin as hard as you can from the baseline all day long takes zero brains. What is there to think about? Should I hit this ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin or should I hit the next ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin?

 

[BreakPoint]

So you mean some time around 1981 when Polystar released their first polyester string or 1988 when Pro Kennex released the precursor to the Pure Drive six years later, the Destiny?

I mean over 100 years earlier when they settled on the official size of the court and the height of the net. It hasn't changed since then despite the fact that the racquets and strings have changed drastically since then. It's illogical.

 

[Rock Strongo]

I mean over 100 years earlier when they settled on the official size of the court and the height of the net. It hasn't changed since then despite the fact that the racquets and strings have changed drastically since then. It's illogical.

Then they should also have changed it with the introduction of graphite and fiber inlays in wooden racquets.

 

[BreakPoint]

Then they should also have changed it with the introduction of graphite and fiber inlays in wooden racquets.

Nah...only in the past 10 years or so have we seen the massive topspin produced by Babolat-type racquets and poly strings. Sampras and Edberg were still playing classic style tennis with small graphite racquets and gut strings. It's the modern big-headed racquets strung with poly that effectively makes the court play bigger and the net lower. That's why we need to shrink the size of the court and raise the height of the net to even it back out. Either that or ban these types of racquets and strings, just like they banned spaghetti strings back in the 70's.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Breakpoint is like the Amish, just pick a random point in the evolution of a particular technology and deem it 'appropriate', regardless of the years of development that preceded or followed it..
It is ludicrous in both its arrogance and its foolishness.

BP, you might like to have a chat with a friend of mine (we were at school together, in fact) about what 'original tennis' looks like..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fahey

He was a very good lawn tennis player back then too..

 

[Topspin Shot]

If you have to ask, you must be a baseline basher. Not surprising for someone who chose the screen name - "Topspin Shot". It takes brains to play chess or tennis as you try to out-think your opponent. Hitting the ball with topspin as hard as you can from the baseline all day long takes zero brains. What is there to think about? Should I hit this ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin or should I hit the next ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin?

Nah, I'm way smarter than you. For one, I don't make assumptions about someone's username. You can start there.

 

[BreakPoint]

Nah, I'm way smarter than you. For one, I don't make assumptions about someone's username. You can start there.

You're right. You chose the name - "Topspin Shot" because you are a pure serve and volleyer who uses a continental forehand and hits only underspin on every shot off of both sides, right? :shock:

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

same reason you chose the name Breakpoint, right?

 

[BreakPoint]

same reason you chose the name Breakpoint, right?

Yes, I get lots of break points on my opponents whenever I play. That's why I chose the name.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Nah...only in the past 10 years or so have we seen the massive topspin produced by Babolat-type racquets and poly strings. Sampras and Edberg were still playing classic style tennis with small graphite racquets and gut strings. It's the modern big-headed racquets strung with poly that effectively makes the court play bigger and the net lower. That's why we need to shrink the size of the court and raise the height of the net to even it back out. Either that or ban these types of racquets and strings, just like they banned spaghetti strings back in the 70's.

So make the court bigger and raise the net, and the returner could still just make the ball go short and dip well before the server has reached the net, making low volleys even more difficult than they are today, essentially killing serve and volley completely. Keep the dimensions and regress on racquets, and you've essentially killed any budding 10-15-year old's development with what they're comfortable with, making many of them play even safer.

Want winners and finesse? Simple! Speed up the courts. Make NO alterations to its dimensions. You should've watched the Wawrinka-Garcia-Lopez match since they hit winners everywhere, even with their "massively overpowered" sticks and full beds of polyester strings. Weren't there massive spinners in the 70's and 80's? Think back to the likes of Vilas, Jimmy Arias and (the rather short-lived career of) Kent Carlsson. There will always be patterns to sports. I say we should all stop bickering about this because it will go absolutely nowhere, because come Monday we will have eight fantastic players with comparatively different playing styles, all rocking the essence of modern tennis in the quarterfinals.

 

[Topspin Shot]

You're right. You chose the name - "Topspin Shot" because you are a pure serve and volleyer who uses a continental forehand and hits only underspin on every shot off of both sides, right? :shock:

I'm a counterpuncher who likes finding opponent's weaknesses and probing them. Not sure how you can get that from Topspin Shot.

 

[sureshs]

BP proven correct by pro players

http://www.tennis.com/gear/2015/01/...are-so-powerful-right-now/53795/#.VMZMIf7F_mc


Spain's Feliciano Lopez says more players on tour are now producing massive first serves. Rafael Nadal and Bernard Tomic also mentioned during the week that there are some players whose performances are purely dictated by huge first serves and nothing else.

“You see the average of the players, is between 185 and 180 [KMH],” said Lopez, who reached the fourth round of the Australian Open. “Everybody became stronger now in the game. Everybody serves huge. Everybody hits the ball with a lot of power. The racquets are so powerful right now.

 

[LapsedNoob]

I'd rather vary court surface more or shorten sticks to 26.5 or even 26 inches long. Shorter sticks would not eliminate any style of play but in my opinion make tactics even more important, no matter the style, because everyone's control is now better. It would be an equal change that does not fundamentally change the game in the way changing court and net dimensions would.

That being said I enjoy today's game as much as I enjoyed tennis in the 90s.

 

[Ferbious]

So you just admitted that it was because of his Midplus Aero Pro Drive than he beat me? Meaning that if were both using wood racquets, he couldn't do the same thing? Thus, I didn't lose to him, I lost to his big, powerful racquet that requires minimal skill and talent to use. Big deal. He wasn't the better player, he just used the better racquet.

Oh, and tennis is the U.S. was way more popular back when there were 2 ball rallies than it today with the mind-numbing rallies that never seem to end, thereby putting spectators to sleep.

Tennis players buy equipment that corresponds with their playing style, i cant play with aero pro drives because i dont like the feel, i prefer 90-97 sq inch racquets as that is all i have played with really besides a leaded up roddick plus pure drive

the better player will win 99% of the time and only luck has anything to do with the other 1%

if you playing with an 85 inch racquet cant beat a guy with an aero pro it means that:
1 your strokes are inferior
2 you dont know how to dominate points
3 you play too passive of tennis

i beat plenty of players using these racquets and i lose to them too but its not about the equipment, it's about your own game.

 

[robbo1970]

Is this thread still going on. Goodness me.

Here's a thought....racquet head size has no influence on how a player decides to play.

McEnroe is using a 98 - plays SV still. Rafter is using a 97, plays SV still. Borg uses a 90, still mostly plays from the baseline.

I'm really not convinced that head size determines how someone will play, particularly when I think back to the days when pro's first started using the POG OS. I think it comes down more to the speed of the courts themselves.

 

[VoodooBoot]

http://www.tennis.com/gear/2015/01/...are-so-powerful-right-now/53795/#.VMZMIf7F_mc


Spain's Feliciano Lopez says more players on tour are now producing massive first serves. Rafael Nadal and Bernard Tomic also mentioned during the week that there are some players whose performances are purely dictated by huge first serves and nothing else.

“You see the average of the players, is between 185 and 180 [KMH],” said Lopez, who reached the fourth round of the Australian Open. “Everybody became stronger now in the game. Everybody serves huge. Everybody hits the ball with a lot of power. The racquets are so powerful right now.

Feliciano is using a modern racquet, too (Juice PJ, not sure what's under the paint). How come others using the same technology he has access to are benefiting from it, but he's not and is complaining about it?

Honestly, Federer was the only player--until switching to the RF97--who had the right to complain about that.

 

[robbo1970]

Feliciano is using a modern racquet, too (Juice PJ, not sure what's under the paint). How come others using the same technology he has access to are benefiting from it, but he's not and is complaining about it?

Honestly, Federer was the only player--until switching to the RF97--who had the right to complain about that.

I'm not sure Lopez is complaining, I think he's merely stating a fact that modern racquets give players easier access to power, particularly on their serves.

And I'm not sure Federer had the right complain, he wasn't being forced to use the 90, it was his choice. He could have switched to a larger racquet at any time and Wilson would no doubt have made him anything he wanted.

 

[Ferbious]

so im just going to breakdown breakpoints argument in one post

1 making everyone play with wooden racquets would probably end in injury as we all know the elbow issues that can come with it, especially with modern strokes

2 tennis would become a push fest from the baseline as there wouldnt be a player able to hit a strong enough shot to force a short ball to be attacked- athletes now a days are too fast and too strong

3 serve and volley would still be dead but even more so-lendl could smack back winners off of wheatons serve and with wooden racquets slowing down all shots, returners would blast passing shots past their opponents

4 longevity would no longer exist and players would have careers shorter than micheal jordans baseball career

5 matches would last even longer, without winners or the easier access to them, mathces would simply go until one player is cramped and collapsed, i imagine the average match time to go up to 2:30 hours and even more between two top 10 opponents

6 more injuries due to more court time


now thats why wood racquets would be awful for the sport, now to say why racquets now are the best

1 new technology makes for better athletes, theres no comparison from novak now to laver then

2 tennis now is about strategy and athleticness, novak doesnt just blast winners, he has to set them up 2-5 shots in advance

3 big servers dont dominate the game, if they did we wouldnt see rafa in the top 3, isner and karlovic are great and have the best serves but they dont have a ground game that is able to handle returning games(because of size issues)

4 new technology is easier on the arm and players are able to play longer with less injury

5 it lets us beat delusional people like breakpoint that whine and whine about how our tennis racquets let us win and that hes actually better,



lastly i personally play a more classic style of play with a modern twist, i have the heavy semi western forehand and an eastern backhand, but i serve and volley and i use short slice, drop shots and chip and charge. i win matches because i play smarter than the bigger guys, if i can do it then i dont see why breakpoint would be losing to players that are worse than him.... unless maybe he is a 2.5 5'5" guy who cant hit the ball hard enough with a 90 inch frame

why dont you try getting better by practicing? maybe that will help. lift some weights

 

[mmk]

No, it's because they know if every batter who stepped up to the plate hit a home run, the spectators would be bored to tears.

So college baseball pitchers don't like to keep their heads on? Nobody watches college baseball so they don't have to worry about losing spectators and revenue.

The professional baseball aluminum bat rule is for safety, plain and simple, just google it. The reason colleges and high schools allow aluminum bats is costs, aluminum bats don't break. Most college teams aren't well funded, only those schools with big football or basketball revenues have decent budgets, and even those aren't spending big money on their baseball teams. Again, you can google this.

Yes, there would be more home runs in MLB and the minors with aluminum bats, but if anything MLB would welcome more home runs as that would attract more fans.

 

[VoodooBoot]

I'm not sure Lopez is complaining, I think he's merely stating a fact that modern racquets give players easier access to power, particularly on their serves.

It sounds like a complaint to me coming right after his loss.

And I'm not sure Federer had the right complain, he wasn't being forced to use the 90, it was his choice. He could have switched to a larger racquet at any time and Wilson would no doubt have made him anything he wanted.

Agreed. I am only saying that if anyone were to have the right to complaint, that would be Fed.

 

[robbo1970]

It sounds like a complaint to me coming right after his loss.

Yeah, probably a slight case of sour grapes maybe.

 

[BGod]

Respectfully agree to disagree.

Sure, results will change. And once 1 or 2 players start winning majors, they may rack up some nice totals. But ticket sales and TV viewership will take a huge hit when the Big 3 leave. Big stars don't become massively popular by wins alone; no way Fed would be as popular if he didn't have the style and grace to go with the 17 majors, 1000 wins, etc. Nadal - the huge FH, the fight for every point attitude, the muscles, the looks.

But again, no way the game should attempt to make any equipment changes; it's not F1 where the wealthy teams can get a huge advantage by pouring billions into R&D. Every player can use the same sticks and strings; the winner is still the guy who can hit the shots under pressure.

Back in the 70s, Jimmy Connors exhibition matches were televised....

I think a lot of people were saying what you're saying when Sampras & Agassi were nearing retirement as well.

Guys like Dimitrov, Nishikori and Kyrgios will rise to the occasion like generations before.

 

[Sander001]

If you have to ask, you must be a baseline basher. Not surprising for someone who chose the screen name - "Topspin Shot". It takes brains to play chess or tennis as you try to out-think your opponent. Hitting the ball with topspin as hard as you can from the baseline all day long takes zero brains. What is there to think about? Should I hit this ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin or should I hit the next ball from the baseline as hard as I can with topspin?

No wonder you hate tennis, you're missing half the game if all this is all you can see. There's much more to it.

 

[BreakPoint]

After trying poly strings for the first time in his big racquet, Agassi said this - "It's like cheating. Hitting the ball out has been taken out of the equation so you can just hit as hard as you want to." Those are Agassi's words, not mine.

Tennis was never designed as a game where you can hit the ball as hard as you want without worrying about hitting the ball out. If you want to do that, go play baseball instead. So how do we put hitting the ball out back into the equation and make the game fair again? By making the court smaller and the net higher. If you don't want to do that then ban big powerful racquets and poly strings.