Margaret Court will remain the woman with most majors
- Thread starter ND-13
- Start date
Serena is the woman with the most majors in the Open era. She holds the major record that matters when we talk about professional tennis.
No one cares about who won what when Tennis was amateur. I don't even know why anyone (or Serena herself) feels she needs to win more than Court. It'd be nice as triva, but once Serena passed Graf in Grand Slams, that sealed her claim to being the women's GOAT.
I do think some people want Court's number erased from the record books entirely because of her politics and stance against homosexuality, but that's not anything that has any bearing on Serena's claim to being the greatest women's player ever. Court only has 11 slams as a professional.
But honestly, I think Serena will win another slam. She's still getting to semis and finals pretty easily, and no one is dominant in the women's game. A little bit of luck with the draw and she will win at least one more.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
This is almost all accurate, but the opposite is true and that is that people want Court left on the record books because she is not Serena.
Nobody really knew about Court's conversion to American evangelicalism until relatively recently, and to be frank it is a religion that is still considered foreign.
She used to be considered just another old-time great from the time Australia dominated tennis. She lives in Western Australia as well, and Australia is dominated by the Eastern seabord.
I can't see Serena winning any more titles as her body is clearly failing her.
Nobody really knew about Court's conversion to American evangelicalism until relatively recently, and to be frank it is a religion that is still considered foreign.
She used to be considered just another old-time great from the time Australia dominated tennis. She lives in Western Australia as well, and Australia is dominated by the Eastern seabord.
I can't see Serena winning any more titles as her body is clearly failing her.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Who cares if Court remains the player with the most majors?
All serious tennis observers rank her no higher than 5th all time.
All serious tennis observers rank her no higher than 5th all time.
Spencer Gore
Legend
Tennis fans care.
Who are all serious tennis watchers rank you no higher than 5th of all time, Phoenix? Anyone who hasn't seen her play and who can't analyze her achievements?
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Graf wouldn't be remotely close to Serena if not for a mentally r*etarded fool.
The problem is always the same: serious observers thought Court was playing basketball or throwing the javelin. Suddenly they realized that the australian won more than Serena and they have no explanation for it.
They are all tennis watchers who do not know the history of tennis.
They are all tennis watchers who do not know the history of tennis.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
lmao Ghost is no Federer fanEverything in this post...What a load of BS. Lol
As for the Federer part, your idol is indeed on 20 just because of the biggest vacuum in tennis history, not because of anything else. Sorry if that hurts your delicate fanboy soul, but it is what it is.
Royaltennis
New User
Steffi graf played in a much weaker field than Serena. Chris evert and Navratilova were long pas their peak and the only serious contender graf had for any length of time was Sanchez vicario who was not an all time great. She was also getting her clock cleaned by seles until the unfortunate stabbing incident.
Spencer Gore
Legend
The current Wimbledon trophy was first presented in 1887.spencer is that guy who thinks that the trophies guys won in full length trousers are the same as now yeah? so
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
That's a bit delusional. She couldn't win the US Open, with 6 of the top 10 not attending, in her home country and her best surface. So good luck winning elsewhere and when the competitive field is tougher. Also, there has been no improvement in her movement for the past 2 years, which is normal given that she's pushing 40. That, too, is unlikely to get better with time. She'll be lucky to make the semis at RG.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Record books also stated that slavery was legal in the 1700's but it is not today.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
People who realise that her Australian Open titles count for little, and consider the achievements of Serena, Graf, Navratilova and Evert, in a much more competitive era, to be superior to those of the Australian.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
24>23. That's the only number that matters here. Sampras dedicated his whole later career to catch Emerson even though Emerson's Slam numbers were inflated due to the weak competition. Untill Serena passes 24, Court is formally the Goat, no doubt about it.
the same ppl that will say RF is still GOAT even when either Nadal or Djoker passes him in GS count.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Imagine how silly we'll all look in 50, 100, 200 years.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
roysid
Hall of Fame
Graf won 22 slams by the age of 29. That's an immense achievement. She promptly retired. Her no. Would always be an asterisk though.
Serena won 12/13 slams by that time. Post 30, she won another 10 slams.
Similarly pete won 14 slams at 31 years and retired. Federer was 17, Nadal was 16 and Novak 14 slams at 31 years
That's the sign of modern times. Players are physically at match condition till 40.
So Serena and 3 male players are adding slams post 30 which was the retirement age earlier.
Serena won 12/13 slams by that time. Post 30, she won another 10 slams.
Similarly pete won 14 slams at 31 years and retired. Federer was 17, Nadal was 16 and Novak 14 slams at 31 years
That's the sign of modern times. Players are physically at match condition till 40.
So Serena and 3 male players are adding slams post 30 which was the retirement age earlier.
upchuck
Hall of Fame
Anyone who thinks Margaret Court will matter after Serena retires is kidding themselves. Serena made Margaret relevant by targeting her grand slam record. It made sense at the time because we all thought Serena would get to 24 then 25. That's the only reason we talk about "24." If Serena fails to get 24 and retires with 23, we'll go back to elevating the Open Era grand slam record and relegating the pre-Open Era of tennis to the place it belongs because it requires an act of Houdini to value Court's achievements.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
ALL i can say now that Serena still active is for now! Serena has the talent to win a GS! She just needs the a little more stamina and luck to do it! I think she has another 6 GS tries to win another GS before her body gives out due to age! She does not keep herself in top physical shape like many of her peers and so she has to start from the bottom and get in shape which is a big chore to do each season. Very depressing to get back into shape mentally again and again!
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
You either have a connected history, or you do not. Sports for historians, fans and its participants are ignorant in the extreme to attempt to use any concocted means to separate the achievements in the same sport by era or anything else. Its the same BS that had Michael Jordan worshipers using his number of championships (6) to claim he's some GOAT, when Bill Russell still has that record with an untouchable 11. The moment anyone brings this undeniable fact up, in comes the "well, it was a different sport" against Russell's era. Fine, then Jordan and any who followed him need a separate NBA HoF because they are not part of the neverending legacy of the entire sport. This applies to Court--she has the most majors. The majors were awarded in the same sport as they are today. Court also won the Grand Slam--the zenith of tennis achievements, so she stands as a towering GOAT of the sport, next to Graf, who also won it (obviously), so the frankly feeble reasons some attempt to use against Court (and Laver in other discussions) ignore truth and only serve shatter the sport and its history.
Bottom line: at present, tCourt has the majors record. Period. There's no spinning her record in the same sport, or placing an asterisk next to her titles or her Grand Slam victory. Until Serena ties and/or passes that majors count record, Court is still the most successful at the majors of a single sport.
Bottom line: at present, tCourt has the majors record. Period. There's no spinning her record in the same sport, or placing an asterisk next to her titles or her Grand Slam victory. Until Serena ties and/or passes that majors count record, Court is still the most successful at the majors of a single sport.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Whatever you may feel about Court and her records none of them state that she kept and owned any slaves.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
Serena gave it her best shot. She could have retired eight. nine years ago at 31 with 17 slams (end of 2013) and still been in the GOAT race and spent the last eight or nine years relaxing. I really don't see it happening for her, no. 24, and I hope she can retire and feel at peace at what an amazing career she had.
I question your eye for the game. Seles was cleaning Steffi's clock? Ya, im wondering about you
This is seles vs graf when seles was playing great (before stabbing) Looks pretty even to me...
| 1993 | Australian Open | F | Hard | Monica Seles | Steffi Graf | 4-6 6-3 6-2 |
| 1992 | Wimbledon | F | Grass | Steffi Graf | Monica Seles | 6-2 6-1 |
| 1992 | FO - RG | F | Clay | Monica Seles | Steffi Graf | 6-2 3-6 10-8 |
| 1991 | Hamburg | F | Clay | Steffi Graf | Monica Seles | 7-5 6-7 6-3 |
| 1991 | San Antonio | F | Hard | Steffi Graf | Monica Seles | 6-4 6-3 |
| 1990 | FO - RG | F | Clay | Monica Seles | Steffi Graf | 7-6(6) 6-4 |
| 1990 | German Open | F | Clay | Monica Seles | Steffi Graf | 6-4 6-3 |
| 1989 | Brighton | F | Carpet | Steffi Graf | Monica Seles | 7-5 6-4 |
BlueB
Legend
It's very questionable. Funny part is that she brought it onto herself by chasing the slam record - it gave credibility to the claim that Court, the singles slam count leader, is the GOAT until passed, or equalized. Then, if we accept that slams are not all there is, a case could be made for Graff or Navratilova...
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Graf was not "getting her clock cleaned" by Seles. At the height of Seles' career (1992) she was outplayed like a weekend park player by Graf in that year's Wimbledon final. It was no contest at all. Again, this is before the stabbing, when Seles was at the peak of her game...and still took an extended course of "How Graf Plays Tennis" in that Wimbledon final.
MusterCoriaKuerten
Rookie
Seles fans can keep crying
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Otha, Seles fans can cry all they want but that won't make Graf any greater!
MusterCoriaKuerten
Rookie
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
Serena competed against and often bested Davenport, Venus Williams, Kim Clijsters, Martina Hingis, Li Na, Henin, Mary Pierce, Seles, Graf, Sharapova, Azarenka, Kerber, Kuznetsova, and on and on and on over 27 years
she faced and bested the most fit, fastest, strongest, most mentally tough WTA in history
It’s so sad to see someone be so unable to face
SaFINNISHikori
New User
Another thorn in the side of Woke Culture. So sad that Ms. Court and her unpopular opinions will not be erased from the record books in the name of our savior Serena Williams.
AceyMan
Professional
[looking into the future]
That's Ash Barty you're talking about, right?
/Acey
Bummed Ash is skipping the FO. I want the world to remember a backhand slice can still help win titles.
MusterCoriaKuerten
Rookie
Her vulturing this decade was the most pathetic.
jarko111
Hall of Fame
Court has the most. She's GOAT. It's a simple rule that we all agree on. Most slams is GOAT.
The argument about her number of Aussie titles can soooo be argued about the French and US Open, too.. and players that did and didn't play them for whatever reason. Fact is.. Court won a lot of majors outside of the Aussie Open, as well.
I think she has 13 majors from outside Australia. So she won the majority of her majors outside her home country? That's pretty good.
Her first Aussie open she went out second round.. her last... she lost in QF.
The argument about her number of Aussie titles can soooo be argued about the French and US Open, too.. and players that did and didn't play them for whatever reason. Fact is.. Court won a lot of majors outside of the Aussie Open, as well.
I think she has 13 majors from outside Australia. So she won the majority of her majors outside her home country? That's pretty good.
Her first Aussie open she went out second round.. her last... she lost in QF.
Cortana
Legend
Court won most of her slams in a time where the AO was considered a "ATP 500" event, so half of her titles aren't even real GS titles. Graf would be nowhere close to Serenas slam count if not for that psycho that stabbed Seles.
Context matters. That's why Serena is the greatest. And let's be honest, tennis progressed so fast in the last couple of decades...Court wouldn't win a single game against a top 100 WTA player nowadays.
Context matters. That's why Serena is the greatest. And let's be honest, tennis progressed so fast in the last couple of decades...Court wouldn't win a single game against a top 100 WTA player nowadays.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Court was NEVER mentioned in the GOAT debates until Serena passed Martina & Graf. Hmmm
And doesnt pretty much every Nadal and Djokovic fan claim their guy is the GOAT despite them not having the record?
They aren't intimidating and black lol
Hood_Man
G.O.A.T.
She really will and it won't just be because of how many majors she's won (or may go on to win), it'll be because she had the ability to take extended breaks from tennis when dominating, and then immediately pick up where she left off on her return.
Even times where she wasn't ranked number 1 everyone knew she was the best player on the circuit because she'd best everyone when it mattered.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Completely wrong but it is clear that you are a die-hard Federer fan who wants to save his GOAT status at all costs. After Fed fans have claimed for years here that slam count is what matters and typed hundreds of post like 17>14, 20>19 and so one and so forth now all of the sudden it is about character and Nadal and Djokovic by default can never be GOAT no matter how many slams they win. It is actually simple for me if Nadal wins 21 he will surpass Federer, Djokovic might already surpass him with 20 and I like him the least by far out of the big three.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Not to mention how nutzo her career is too. Started winning slams in 99, was still doing so in 2017. Beat Peak Venus, Henin, Davenport, Mauresmo, Clijsters (and don't get me started on what she did to Sharapova) lol. Again im not even a fan like that, and never really mind seeing her lose. But im not going to sit here and act like she's not the GOAT. Martina/Steffi/Chrissy are right there too though, but I have to give the nod to Serena.
Yes, it's certainly possible. It's not like she's losing in the 1st round these days.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Yep...and with Seles' less than adequate skills at Wimbledon (especially while Graf was still playing), she was not going to win there, and that's not the marker of a GOAT.
Opinion: Serena Williams doesn't need to pass Margaret Court to be Slam queen
Serena Williams is still short of the career Grand Slam record and running out of time. But Margaret Court's 24 majors are not what they seem.
www.usatoday.com
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
So Margaret Court doesn't hold 24 major singles titles?Opinion: Serena Williams doesn't need to pass Margaret Court to be Slam queen
Serena Williams is still short of the career Grand Slam record and running out of time. But Margaret Court's 24 majors are not what they seem.www.usatoday.com
How many does she hold?
