McEnroe's better side

[exVermonter]

John McEnroe and Jim Courier played an exhibition match in Atlanta Saturday night, which McEnroe won 10-4 in a super tiebreaker.

The highlight of the match was after Courier annoyed McEnroe by swinging and intentionally missing a McEnroe shot that was going long, McEnroe turned around, bent over, dropped his shorts and mooned Courier - this in front of about 1500 people that paid $60/ticket to see the event.

I have seen a couple of these types of charity or exhibition matches and parts are certainly staged - taking the kid from the crowd to hit, splitting sets to give the crowd it's moneys worth, and the typical McEnroe tantrum, but I think he caught everyone by surprise with the moon. Courier appeared to be amazed and endedup losing the next couple of points.

What was clear is that Mac clearly has game - his volleys were amazing and he could put his serve in either corner with ease. Had the match gone a full 3 sets I think he would have run out of gas, but in a 1 set death match he is not a bad bet.

The other part of the event was a 8 game mixed doubles proset - McEnroe/Kournikova vs. Courier and Jana Novatna which Mac and Anna won 8-4 without much struggle. I was interested to see that on short balls and overheads, Courier returned at McEnroe, while Mac went at the Novotna any chance he could which I think was the difference in the match. You can tell that winning is a bit higher on his priority list than being gentlemanly -

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Geez, thats surprising from Mac , if i was Courier i would have come to the net and yelled, u cant be serious and punch him in the face!:mrgreen:

 

[VGP]

McEnroe's better side.....


that's a good one!

 

[Double K]

szzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[LowProfile]

I can just see that doubles match now. Kournikova gets a short ball and Mac runs up yelling "It's mine!" and blasting a backhand towards Novotna's face.

 

[jings]

Mac has always, still does and will until he strings his last racquet hate losing more than anything else. He'll probably take Death to 25-23 in the fifth set tie breaker.

 

[thejackal]

He'll probably take Death to 25-23 in the fifth set tie breaker.

LMAO You just made my day mate.

 

[FEDEXP]

He's got as better side?

 

[dannyjjang]

how can a 35yr old lose to 47 year old???
p.s.
what do you think mcenroe's ntrp ratings are? although he looks slow in court i believe he good beat all of us here..or am i wrong?i mean i've seen alot of amazin tennis players over 50....most of them looks faster than me.lol

 

[superman1]

It's a 47 year old John McEnroe, the guy that recently won an ATP Doubles tournament. No shame in losing to the biggest talent ever.

 

[dannyjjang]

It's a 47 year old John McEnroe, the guy that recently won an ATP Doubles tournament. No shame in losing to the biggest talent ever.

maybe its just me but his continental groundstrokes looks really weak., and strange.

 

[superman1]

I saw him up close in San Jose. His serves hit the corners and clock around 120 mph. His volleys are still the best in the world. His groundstrokes can be awkward at times (the forehand side), but he can usually hit them with good pace. His return of serve is actually quite strong. The only way to hurt him is to put him on the run, but he probably won't let you do that.

 

[dannyjjang]

I saw him up close in San Jose. His serves hit the corners and clock around 120 mph. His volleys are still the best in the world. His groundstrokes can be awkward at times (the forehand side), but he can usually hit them with good pace. His return of serve is actually quite strong. The only way to hurt him is to put him on the run, but he probably won't let you do that.

REALLY? at that age he still hits 120mph?...
Why does he look awfully slow in the court i saw some of his 88s matches and .....HE LOOKS really slow.(at least from my perspective).

 

[Andres]

what do you think mcenroe's ntrp ratings are? although he looks slow in court i believe he good beat all of us here..or am i wrong?i mean i've seen alot of amazin tennis players over 50....most of them looks faster than me.lol

Let put it this way. I'm 5.5, and he'll still beat me 6-0, 6-0.
He is probably 9.0, to put it un numbers :mrgreen:

 

[dannyjjang]

Let put it this way. I'm 5.5, and he'll still beat me 6-0, 6-0.
He is probably 9.0, to put it un numbers :mrgreen:

wow i underestimated him...

 

[Andres]

wow i underestimated him...

Big time.

Think about this:

He still can crush some other EX ATP pros (former GS champions, or ex #1), who are like 10 or 15 years younger than him

 

[dannyjjang]

Big time.

Think about this:

He still can crush some other EX ATP pros (former GS champions, or ex #1), who are like 10 or 15 years younger than him

man just how good are pros???
i remember my friend watchin federer practicing for Indian Wells, he told me it seems he hit really light but the ball traveled in a light speed...Maybe its their racquet customization? heh

 

[Andres]

man just how good are pros???

Let's put it this way.
Take your skills, add MY skills, plus .. I don't know... Kevhen skills.
Add that together, and STILL, we couldn't get a set off them

 

[dannyjjang]

don't add my skills i just started last year..

 

[Andres]

Anyway, the point still stands

 

[dannyjjang]

yes i can see

 

[dannyjjang]

but why in my eyes mcenroe just SUCKS....is it because i m so used to seeing semi western(grip) players?

 

[Andres]

but why in my eyes mcenroe just SUCKS....is it because i m so used to seeing semi western(grip) players?

So Sampras, with an Eastern grip, also sucks!?
JMac is the best volleyer ever, and IMO, probably the most talented player ever to swing a racquet.

 

[wyutani]

So Sampras, with an Eastern grip, also sucks!?
JMac is the best volleyer ever, and IMO, probably the most talented player ever to swing a racquet.

i thought he was a doubles guy...

 

[superman1]

He had the most dominant year of any player in 1984. And he wasn't playing against a bunch of small potatoes, he was bumping off guys like Lendl and Connors. Watch some clips of Lendl, if he played today he'd by neck-in-neck with Federer. McEnroe is probably in the top 5 best players ever, IMO. Wilander ranked him #5, tied with Lendl and Connors, and said that if he worked harder on fitness he had enough talent to be the greatest.

 

[Andres]

i thought he was a doubles guy...

He won 77 singles titles... Between your topspin questions, and this, seems like you've been envolved with tennis for 3 months only.

 

[wyutani]

He won 77 singles titles... Between your topspin questions, and this, seems like you've been envolved with tennis for 3 months only.

1 year, 1 month, 3 days...you nut.

 

[BreakPoint]

but why in my eyes mcenroe just SUCKS....is it because i m so used to seeing semi western(grip) players?

Perhaps you just don't recognize greatness and natural talent? You may underestimate him because he makes hitting the ball look so effortless and so precise. That's true genius at work! He also has some of the quickest hands at the net ever.

Don't forget that McEnroe was why one of the greatest players of all time, Bjorn Borg, retired at an early age. He just got so frustrated that he couldn't beat McEnroe.

Brad Gilbert used to also say that McEnroe was by far the most talented player he's ever played against and would routinely get crushed by him 6-1, 6-2. In comparison, Gilbert thought that Connors was overrated and that he was very lucky to have achieved as much as he did. He would have much closer matches against Connors than he did against McEnroe.

 

[BreakPoint]

He won 77 singles titles... Between your topspin questions, and this, seems like you've been envolved with tennis for 3 months only.

Actually, 78 doubles titles now. He added the 2006 SAP Open doubles title in Feb.

 

[jings]

Mac doesn't trash talk the entire WTA and a large part of the ATP STILL without good reason. The guy has done almost anything with a tennis ball you can imagine and largely still can. The argument over whether he was the most talented player ever is blurred by his on court antics imo - even half as well behaved again and there would be no contest. Oh and don't forget his Davis Cup record either .... this kid could play, and still does!

 

[superman1]

Amateurs need to know that there's a big difference between hitting a ball around and winning matches. Maybe you can hit the ball harder from the baseline than McEnroe, which means you hit a pretty damn good ball, and maybe you're younger and faster than him, but he'll still beat you 6-0 6-0.

 

[dannyjjang]

Amateurs need to know that there's a big difference between hitting a ball around and winning matches. Maybe you can hit the ball harder from the baseline than McEnroe, which means you hit a pretty damn good ball, and maybe you're younger and faster than him, but he'll still beat you 6-0 6-0.

haha thats the part that is hard to accept
how about when John's in his 60s? do we have a chance

 

[BreakPoint]

haha thats the part that is hard to accept
how about when John's in his 60s? do we have a chance

No, he'll beat you even when he's in his grave. But you might get a game off of him then. LOL :mrgreen:

 

[rooski]

One of the other amazing things about Johnny Mac is that he expends a lot less energy with his strokes but still hits the ball quite hard and heavy with modern equipment. He has just amazing court sense, anticipation, and angles...not to mention his competitive edge. You have to see him live for yourself to believe it. You can't look at old film with him playing with a wood racket. It was a totally different game back then. Yes his strokes were and are unusual but so what. They were (and still are) amazingly effective.

With decent odds...I'd put my money on Mac vs. Nadal on grass at Wimbledon 2006

 

[Andres]

Actually, 78 doubles titles now. He added the 2006 SAP Open doubles title in Feb.

I said 77 SINGLES titles, but the point still stands. 77 and 78. Absolutely IMPRESSIVE! :mrgreen:

 

[Arafel]

Brad Gilbert used to also say that McEnroe was by far the most talented player he's ever played against and would routinely get crushed by him 6-1, 6-2. In comparison, Gilbert thought that Connors was overrated and that he was very lucky to have achieved as much as he did. He would have much closer matches against Connors than he did against McEnroe.

LOL, that's freaking hilarious, coming from Gilbert, a guy who overachieved his entire career. I don't think it was luck for Connors to have accomplished what he did. He was the prototype power baseliner, could play the net quite well (not in McEnroe or Edberg's class, but no slouch) and was one of the greatest competitors ever. People make out a lot about how McEnroe hated to lose, but Connors was the same way, and Connors never ever gave up.

Along the lines of coulda woulda that is always mentioned in the Seles threads, Connors would probably have won the GS in 74 if he had been allowed to play the French, and I think he would have won at least one more French if had played it before 79. And if he hadn't of been hurt in the 77 Wimbledon final, I think he would have taken that also.

 

[superman1]

I agree. Luck certainly doesn't account for a 1222-269 record with 105 singles titles and 8 Grand Slams. He didn't win those Slams against nobodies, he beat Borg, McEnroe, and Lendl for those puppies. Connors was 41 in his last match against Brad Gilbert, so I don't think Gilbert is the best guy to judge. McEnroe is easily more talented than Connors, but Connors had better results, so it's a tie for me.

 

[Rabbit]

I've posted this before, but it does explain IMO. Vitas Gerualitis was friends with Borg, Connors, and McEnroe (probably everybody). He was asked, on air, about the difference between Connors and McEnroe because everyone thought McEnroe was so much more talented than Connors.

VG went on to explain that if you watch both of them play, you can see the difference in their feet. On any shot that Connors hit, his feet were always in perfect position. Connors also used his knees better than anyone. He used his legs so that he hit basically the same stroke every time.

McEnroe's positioning on court was not nearly as good. McEnroe made up for it by having the best hands anyone's ever seen on a tennis court. So, he concluded that McEnroe appeared to be more talented because he was basically improvising more than Connors. I think he was right, both men were/are superbly talented athletes, just in different ways.

 

[BreakPoint]

I said 77 SINGLES titles, but the point still stands. 77 and 78. Absolutely IMPRESSIVE! :mrgreen:

Oops, sorry. I thought you guys were discussing doubles.

 

[jings]

I've posted this before, but it does explain IMO. Vitas Gerualitis was friends with Borg, Connors, and McEnroe (probably everybody). He was asked, on air, about the difference between Connors and McEnroe because everyone thought McEnroe was so much more talented than Connors.

VG went on to explain that if you watch both of them play, you can see the difference in their feet. On any shot that Connors hit, his feet were always in perfect position. Connors also used his knees better than anyone. He used his legs so that he hit basically the same stroke every time.

McEnroe's positioning on court was not nearly as good. McEnroe made up for it by having the best hands anyone's ever seen on a tennis court. So, he concluded that McEnroe appeared to be more talented because he was basically improvising more than Connors. I think he was right, both men were/are superbly talented athletes, just in different ways.

I hadn't heard that before. Very interesting. It was reflected in their games as well. Mac could change his shot right up to the last moment and often did. His doubles play was so intuitive too, which I think only added to this trait. Not to say Connors was unimaginative on court, but relatively there was no contest in that department.

 

[Rabbit]

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