TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Not every player want to cheat though and use MTO the wrong way.
Calling it a timeout no reason asked would be better.
MTO's have to go!
- Thread starter Robert F
- Start date
Calling it a timeout no reason asked would be better.
beard
Legend
That is wrong for sport. What would happen:
- players would default without real reason, because injury is not that serious, but player wouldn't have time to realise that and wouldn't like to risk more serious injury... Result is no match, audience unhappy, both on stadium and in front of tv...
- player continues to play, get more serious injury, finish season, career... Not good for him and sport...
Not gonna happen, no way....
beard
Legend
Timeout is ok solution, but it won't stop players to abuse MTOs as additional source... I think there is no solution on this, no one can't be accused he is faking or not, and we can't play with health...
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
why would you be surprised? it's the us open, im sure the officials had clear instructions
i wish there was a way to stop the bs use of mtos but im not sure there is
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
MTO should go, only timeouts like in other sports.
Massages on court has to stop, doesn’t look good for the sport.
Tennis players aren’t gladiators, they are primadonnas.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Yeah that's not a bad idea. Slap them with a game penalty. If you're actually injured you'll take it anyway but if you're not you'll sure think thriceWhy is it "excessive"?
You do realise that a person taking a MTO (and especially as the things stand now even in your opponent's service game) is trying to disrupt their opponent's momentum. Getting on serve even with 0-30 deficit still gives them enough hope to take advantage of the said disruption, as by definition they have better chances to hold in their service games. IF they automatically lose their service game and their opponent has the chance to pounce by continuing serving I really doubt that the strategical MTOs will pay off. Some still may try to use them, if they are desperate, but it is definitely past the point of equilibrium and in the territory of the diminishing returns.
Of course there is. It was suggested above.
If a player is genuinely injured, will they choose to default a single game or default the entire match? That's obvious.
If a player is not genuinely injured, will they choose to default a game as a tactical move? Maybe, but they'd be taking a very big risk .. as opposed to the current situation where they take no risk at all.
There was a time, not too long ago, when times out were not allowed for Any reason. What Serena pulled last night was a joke. Good for Vica for not letting it disrupt her game.
beard
Legend
Not gonna happen, this 21st century... MTOs are staying...
beard
Legend
Horrible, not happening...
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Well I agree on the second bit
beard
Legend
Problem is that player sometimes can't know in that second what's his injure... Is that serious or not... How can't you all guys understand that... Why people go to the doctor? To see what is their problem and how serious it is...
Players know their limitations, why your allowed to default to injury. The doc has never ended a match, perhaps allowing them to would make the abusers think twice?
I see people faking cramps and stuff, you cannot play with some of the things these people are claiming.
No time outs in tennis, it ruins play styles that break down the opponent both mentally and physically. We have to be able to recoup fast or lose because of that break down.
Imagine a pusher who lost 6 pts in a row, finally tiring his opponent before the change over. They call timeout and win the next two pts after 4mins of catching their breath and i lose serve !!
Timeouts are for children, not pro tennis players
junior74
Bionic Poster
beard
Legend
No, they don't know their limitations in that moment, sometimes you don't know if you can continue or not, that's why you take a pause, invite a DOCTOR to see...
System is good considering care about players health, but unfortunately is abused and don't think system will change because it's impossible to know if players are faking or not...
Players just must accept opponent can fake injury and try not to be stressed about it...
When Laver beat Roche in the AO semi in 1969, it was over 40C and dripping with humidity (played in Brisbane, not Melbourne). Laver won the first 7-5 and the second 22-20. The umpire allowed the players to sit on the grass for a minute before the third set (won by Roche 11-9) as a concession to the conditions and length of the match. Otherwise, they just quickly paused for a drink and towel between games. There were no chairs for players, they were there to play tennis! Laver won the match in 5.
Now I'm not opposed to MTOs if they are a true way to allow a player who would otherwise forfeit get some quick treatment to continue, but we all know that's not how they are being used. If we wanted to watch a competition where the most dishonest person wins, we'd just tune into the US Presidential elections.
Tennease
Legend
Umpire also allowed MTO at 0-30 for Djokovic.
No. Many matches won’t get canceled. Players who are faking will stop using these as a strategic tool. Players who are more injury prone will start playing a style that is less stressful. There are very few 1 on 1 sports where an opponent is just kept waiting while the other party is getting tended to.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. The truly injured players would have to cancel no matter if mto is possible or not.
beard
Legend
That's bs... Players that fake injury would stop doing that... Secondly, don't you think injury prone players wouldn't start playing less stressful style already if that's possible, shame Nishi or Delpo haven't read this idea some time ago... Be real man...
Are you aware players health is in stake, careers... All because some players fake injuries to distract opponent... There are many better way to improve tennis, without in dangering players health...
Well, in reality I don't think any of them will happen. But we can always dream...
MS_07
Semi-Pro
Seriously man !!
She was jumping all around just after the MTO . Earlier also there was no problem .
There was no clear evidence of roll !
Penalize fake MTOs.
No disrespect meant, but are you for real? These are high level athletes and competitors, you are talking about them as if they were some fragile flowers. They are also sneaky cheaty creators who would use any tricks, ethical or not, to win. Let the players worry about their own health. If it’s in any risk, they can easily drop out of a match.
beard
Legend
Yes, everyone can easily drop out of match... and leave spectators without fun they paid for... It's not team sport where player will be replaced... And why? Because we don't want doctor to look at player and lose few minutes... MTO is abused? Ok, it's not fair, but who actually cares, just look at that as a tactical move and watch/play further... People make of this too big deal, and propose rules that could ruin careers...
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
Or... we all of the sudden have a lot less injuries...
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You talk as if the players play in full health all the time and "here comes the injury" after which they are not sure whether they are injured or not. The reality is completely different: these athletes have been through so many physical issues, that they know when something is completely off and very often they know what exactly is wrong with them, since they have entered the match suffering from it.
Let's say that they don't: they are concerned about it being serious: there are two scenarios then:
1) it is serious - in that case they have the help and can see if they can continue - in that case they forfeit their next service game as an exchange for getting help
2) it isn't serious - in that case they are penalised for not making the right call and "accidentally" disrupting the flow of the events. Small punishment for taking away from their opponent and the public
In either scenario there is no issue with proceeding with the game penalty.
TennisaGoGo
Semi-Pro
Just give each player one time out for any reason. They have them in College Basketball and they're usually taken when one opponent is in the middle of a huge run. It's always fun when your school is taking it to the other team and the refs blow the whistle when the other team calls for a standing 8.
It would be interesting to make a list of players who cheat often. I have the feeling members who are favorable to MTOs are actually fans of one of those players.
An interesting fact is that I can’t recall the last time Serena took an MTO. She must have been really desperate against Azarenka and very much breathless. Normally she’s a proud player who doesn’t resort to such antics.
An interesting fact is that I can’t recall the last time Serena took an MTO. She must have been really desperate against Azarenka and very much breathless. Normally she’s a proud player who doesn’t resort to such antics.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I think one MTO per match is a good ratio for every player.
But I would have them take that MTO on their serve, not the opponent's.
After that 1 MTO, the player receives a game penalty for every additional MTO he takes afterwards.
But I would have them take that MTO on their serve, not the opponent's.
After that 1 MTO, the player receives a game penalty for every additional MTO he takes afterwards.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
honesty i kind of agree. other than for serious medical attention why have any recourse to a physician mid-match? you're hurt, oh well. i think on balance it would be worth it to take that particular form of gamesmanship off the table for good.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Or simply have it be punishment for an MTO that is not serious. Make the player aware that if he is not seriously injured and still wants an MTO that he will forfeit the next game.
Or select particularly cynical trainers who could tell when they attend to the players if they’re really injured or not, and will have to report that to the umpire. Deduct a set in case of cheating.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
They should consider having steward's enquiry for every MTO. Any MTO which is then believed to be gamesmanship should see player interviewed and fined if found guilty, even banned for three tournaments. Tennis players seem to moan a lot about any kind of administration into integrity of game (drug testing for example being inconvenient) and I think they would hate this and it would make them think twice. But I don't think tennis organisations would want to spend money on it.
Also, I advocate 0-30 idea. You call a MTO, your opponent gets advantage. Only fair. You should be fit or have better movement so you don't fall over, etc.
Also, I advocate 0-30 idea. You call a MTO, your opponent gets advantage. Only fair. You should be fit or have better movement so you don't fall over, etc.
A game penalty seems worth it if you are truly injured because you are hoping treatment will prevent you from defaulting.
If you aren't injured then is it worth the risk?
Other sports don't deal with this as much because many of them are team sports and the match can go on while a player gets treatment.
Players get a lot of pressure from tournaments, fans and finances to try and play on when injured. So I think they should have access to MTOs but with some cost to the player or benefit to their opponent.
If you aren't injured then is it worth the risk?
Other sports don't deal with this as much because many of them are team sports and the match can go on while a player gets treatment.
Players get a lot of pressure from tournaments, fans and finances to try and play on when injured. So I think they should have access to MTOs but with some cost to the player or benefit to their opponent.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
I see you like the good tennis!
Federev
G.O.A.T.
Agreed. But must also give the benefit of the doubt to the injured lineswoman.
Federev
G.O.A.T.
She was at first. But then Vika came back to make it duece. That's when I think Serena called the MTO.
And I'm not saying she wasn't injured, but it invites questions.
In all NA team sports, a sick/injured player can be substituted for, and he can re-enter the game if he recovers, except for baseball, which doesn't allow substitution period. In soccer, he can't be substituted for, but he can try to recover on the sideline while his team plays a man short.
BTW, an injured baseball player can receive any kind of medical treatment while his team is not on the field!
In golf, a player can get any kind of treatment from the tour physio, as long as he doesn't hold up play. If tennis implements no MTO, it'd the only sport who doesn't provide an opportunity for a sick/injured player to recover! That would make no sense! There will be players who try to play through crippling injuries, because they're unsure about the severity. At least now, they can receive professional medical from qualified doctors/physios.
Tennis should implement this rule: if a player gets to see a physio, his/her opponent gets to see the coach. As of now, the opponent gets to suck on his thumb, and gets all cold and nervous when play resumes!
BTW, an injured baseball player can receive any kind of medical treatment while his team is not on the field!
In golf, a player can get any kind of treatment from the tour physio, as long as he doesn't hold up play. If tennis implements no MTO, it'd the only sport who doesn't provide an opportunity for a sick/injured player to recover! That would make no sense! There will be players who try to play through crippling injuries, because they're unsure about the severity. At least now, they can receive professional medical from qualified doctors/physios.
Tennis should implement this rule: if a player gets to see a physio, his/her opponent gets to see the coach. As of now, the opponent gets to suck on his thumb, and gets all cold and nervous when play resumes!
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You give an out, people will use it. Always have, always will You change rules to tighten up things and humans will adapt...always have, always will.
You are not going to see a mass number of injuries or players quitting or dropping dead on the court if MTO rules are changed. I also stand by my assertion that without an out, players across the board will adapt their styles too to lessen chances of injury.
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As Jermaine Dupri says, money ain't a thing. Games will hurt more than a fine.
Lleytonstation
Bionic Poster
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
But.... she clearly was NOT injured lol
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
That is true. She was in pain and therein lies the problem with applying the "ball abuse" rule to officials in court. It is too dependent on reaction. Some people, especially the unfit elderly, have very low pain tolerance. It is a moot point as her job needs to be replaced by Hawkeye. Linesmen need to go the way of Toll Booth Operators. Don't know why any normal minded person would want to do that job anyway.
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mental midget
Hall of Fame
you simply can't have 'extent of injury' as a variable, like you said...different pain tolerances, and at the end of the day apart from serious obvious tissue damage a doctor can't, on court, definitively identify or disprove an injury claim. player: my knee hurts. doc: well nothing seems wrong. player: well it hurts! that goes nowhere.
like i mentioned i'd be totally down for zero on court assistance, you're hurt, ok well then stop playing, or don't, your call. but i get it's mostly to keep fans from being 'cheated' if a player conks out 2 minutes into a match. so how about making it cost something, and limiting it: you need a tape job, whatever, fine. you get one X minute assistance call for that sort of thing, but it costs you a game. might not be your fault but it's not your opponents fault either and this way you get zero mta abuse. and if you get hurt on a match point...you're out of luck.
beard
Legend
Less, but injuries are sometimes real, you know...
coolboarder
Rookie
I would be in much in favor of players using regular timeout for any reason, to disrupt their momentum as other sports has used that strategy. Let players have one timeout for best of 3 matches or two timeouts for best of 5 matches. It can be used for medical or coaching strategy/advice timeout. Allow them to use timeout to talk to their coaches. Coaching is not allowed during changeover but if he calls a timeout then he can then talk to his coach. The player can use timeout at anytime, even during a game. It'll be interesting to sere how players use their timeout strategically. This will effectively remove the medical timeout. For best of 5 match, a medical timeout is equal to two timeouts so it's fair that way. While he is getting treatment, the coach can come in and talk to him about strategy adjustments. No coaching is allowed for a best of 3 matches when getting a medical treatment during a MTO. In a best of 5 match, if you have used a regular timeout, you can use a medical timeout but no coaching is allowed. If you used the coaching timeout but got hurt later in the match, it's on your own risk, you will have to make your own decision whether to continue the match or not. The length of regular timeout needs to be determined.
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