OddJack
G.O.A.T.
Last edited:
Murray's unshaven face and weak mentality slammed
- Thread starter OddJack
- Start date
norbac
Legend
Carsomyr
Legend
Whoops. Meant to say one-time.
Clarky21
Banned
The thing with that though is he hates to be told what to do so he would just fire the poor sap for daring to try and coach him. Murray seems to be stubborn and difficult so I think any coach would struggle to coach him objectively. He simply cannot take authority or criticism.
bms2011
Banned
He was the British Davis Cup Captain. I think he has the right to give some constructive criticism
MajinX
Professional
wait wat? murray accomplished more this year than his entire career...? perhaps u are thinking of a different murray
Carsomyr
Legend
I don't know, he made a hell of a mark as Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Breaker
Legend
"If you look at Nadal, Djokovic and Federer when they come on the court, they have a demeanour. They are exceptionally well-dressed and clean-shaven. Andy doesn't come on like that"
Dumbest thing I've ever read, best British player in decades just came off his best clay season ever - an Aussie Open final - - French semi - Queens title - and Wimbledon semi and criticism has to come down to how he dresses and how often he shaves. Annoyingly stupid, MAYBE a good coach could help him but he's already had Gilbert (the one who would "kick him up the backside") and MaClagen (don't remember how to spell his name don't care this article is so **** anyway the "feel good" coach who was his mate).
Maybe winning a slam is hard as **** especially having to go through the guys he's faced and getting a ****ing shave isn't going to change that perhaps a bit of luck and Federer aging will as he can beat Djokovic and Nadal especially on a hard court.
Dumbest thing I've ever read, best British player in decades just came off his best clay season ever - an Aussie Open final - - French semi - Queens title - and Wimbledon semi and criticism has to come down to how he dresses and how often he shaves. Annoyingly stupid, MAYBE a good coach could help him but he's already had Gilbert (the one who would "kick him up the backside") and MaClagen (don't remember how to spell his name don't care this article is so **** anyway the "feel good" coach who was his mate).
Maybe winning a slam is hard as **** especially having to go through the guys he's faced and getting a ****ing shave isn't going to change that perhaps a bit of luck and Federer aging will as he can beat Djokovic and Nadal especially on a hard court.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ll/D/David-A-Lloyd.aspx
David Lloyd (Career/Bests):
Singles Finals: 0
Singles Titles: 0
Record: 24-55
Grand Slam Results:
RG - 1R
Wimby - 3R
US Open - 1R
Andy Murray (2011):
Singles Titles: 1 (Queens)
Singles Finals: 2 (AO, Queens)
Record: 27-9
Grand Slam Results:
AO - F
RG - SF
Wimby - SF
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
Some of the best football (soccer) coaches never played. The guy is talking common sense. Murray needs to put his house in order, his exterior is a reflection of what goes on inside his head during matches. He's a mess. But like someone already mentioned, he already had Brad, so he is probably a lost cause at this age.
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
What does not shaving for a while have to do with anything? To alot of athletes, not shaving whilst in competition is par for the course. Borg used to grow his beard in the lead up to Wimbledon, it didn't stop him from doing ok there. What about the playoff beards in the NHL? The post season is one of the greatest events in sports, the energy and pace of the game is amazing. The majority of players grow beards for that and it doesn't effect them at all.
He could be right about him needing a tough coach and to get better mentally, but to say he lost because he didn't have a shave for a while is ridiculous.
He could be right about him needing a tough coach and to get better mentally, but to say he lost because he didn't have a shave for a while is ridiculous.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
so ridiculous in fact it was never said...
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
"He has great shots in him - one of the best back-hands in the world. I think he just needs a mental change and a change in his attitude.
"If you look at Nadal, Djokovic and Federer when they come on the court, they have a demeanour. They are exceptionally well-dressed and clean-shaven. Andy doesn't come on like that"
It was. He said he has the shots, just not the right attitude. Murray doesn't come on to court clean shaven shows he doesn't have the right demeanour, I disagree with it.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
The fact that you compare tennis players' demeanour to that of ice hockey players, coupled with the loose interpretation hints that you're grasping at straws.
The truth is Murray is becoming something of an ebarrassment to his countrymen, with his repeated assertions that he is fitter than ever and can beat anyone. He forgets to add he has never beaten the people who matter on the occasions that matter. Add to that the foul language he uses on court and his lack of taste. People have the right to be annoyed when they invest (hopes) and see little returns.
Perhaps you think someome muttering throughout the match with his head hanging has the right demeanour to win a Slam and become a world number one. I certainly don't.
Feña14
G.O.A.T.
Grasping at straws? lol. Since when does having stubble make you a bad tennis player? It clearly doesn't.
He's never beaten anyone in the big occasions? He's beaten Nadal at the Australian and US Open. The problem he has is that he then has to beat a Federer or Djokovic, people seem to think that's easy.
As for his swearing and head hanging, he hasn't been doing it the last few months. People make a big deal of it and say it's holding him back, but it's his way of letting out his frustrations and getting back on track quickly.
There's so many arm chair critics who come out and say he has to start blasting winners, have a shave, get a haircut, fix his teeth, don't get angry etc.. It's pretty funny.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
it's unfair... he kinda takes care of himself: where is this picture of murray waiting for the varnish on his fingernails to dry during a change of sides ?
Ash_Smith
Legend
David loyd likes to talk, a lot, about a lot of things he sees as wrong with British Tennis. Which is fine, but he is in a position with his Academies to do something about it (not to be confused with the Tennis clubs which bear his name, ut which are nothing to do with him anymore) and they have a few players coming through (and noteably Henman as an alumni) but they're not setting tennis alight.
As for Murray, he's the 4th best player in the world, so he should be getting to the Semi's of Slams, which he does regularly and occasionally making the final, which he has in the past. Anything else right now is a bonus. He currently plays to his level. Nothing wrong with that at all.
cheers
As for Murray, he's the 4th best player in the world, so he should be getting to the Semi's of Slams, which he does regularly and occasionally making the final, which he has in the past. Anything else right now is a bonus. He currently plays to his level. Nothing wrong with that at all.
cheers
It does not matter mate, in the world of tennis, nothing counts unless you own a slam tittle, and that is what the brits so desperately want. Murray came so close, and i meant so close, but never reach the summit and the brits are somewhat disappointed.
i am not brits and i dont care much for murray but i do think he needs to shave because he looks messed up......... i mean........ his hair do and his face are just awefull
Al Czervik
Hall of Fame
This stuff is so lame. Murray just doesn't have big weapons. He is the male Woz. He can't recreate that poolstick forehand at this point in his career. He's number four in the world, that doesn't suck. Get off him.
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Wow, how stupid does someone have to be interpret that the guy literally meant that having stubble is the cause of Murray's losses. Sometimes I'm really surprised by the idiocy on this forum.
namelessone
Legend
Oh the irony.. :lol:
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Make sure you know what irony actually is before using it so liberally.
Spot on, I am surprised with David Lloyd, he usually has good stuff to say - aprt from this twaddle.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Okay, then. Oblivious? Hypocritical? Unreasoning?
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
I'll go with the first one, thanks.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
... not the one i was thinking about, but it should work too.it's unfair... he kinda takes care of himself: where is this picture of murray waiting for the varnish on his fingernails to dry during a change of sides ?
nethawkwenatchee
Professional
Very well said. I've been following Murray for several years and have no doubts about his game, conditioning, OR mentalality. This guy is a competitive SOB and does everything possible to put him self in position to win. He has beaten all of the top guys in Finals and will certainly do so in majors if he keeps improving as he has done.
Breaker
Legend
I believe as Tim Henman's former coach that David Lloyd is uniquely qualified to know what it takes for a British player to win a slam
Orig
The funny thing is Tim was shot down in the media for being such a clean cut inoffensive guy every time this discussion came up with the same questions of 'mentality' for him when the problem was solely that he kept playing better players when he got to the semifinals of slams.
Also for the image think Murray already tried the clothes-perfect clean-cut routine as well as having a coach who was supposedly perfect for him who had 'fixed his mentality!!' last year with the Fred Perry business and it didn't end any better.
Let's not even bring up pictures of how Federer looked during his first 4 slam wins :shock: or Nadal's sleeveless pirate routine until 2008.
It's unfortunate (in this particular case) that Djokovic had to breakthrough the way he did because now people in the media who influence half of the clowns in the public on tennis discussion will point to him and say "why can't Murray do that?" when the change in Djokovic at 24 years old in improving every single part of his game in the space of two months is something that I don't remember anyone ever being able to do before. Federer '03/'04 was the closest to it but even he was showing signs at the end of '03 and didn't have a history with fragility like Novak did.
ATXtennisaddict
Hall of Fame
Yeah, David Lloyd had the same game and potential as Andy.
rodgerizsik
New User
Well he does need to shave that silly excuse for a beard off. I mean what the hell is that thing? It is the patchiest thing I have seen in my life, does he think he looks good with it?
ATXtennisaddict
Hall of Fame
Because Murray, Federer, and Borg are the same player right?
Because Lloyd had the same amount of potential and talent as Andy Murray right?
If coaches had to be better players than their students, then we'd be seeing Borg, Sampras, Laver, McEnroe, Agassi etc. coaching slam-winners.
Think about all the top players' coaches. Do you see any of them in the pantheon of tennis greats?
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
You're absolutely right. If Murray dressed and carried himself like a posh Oxford man, he would then be called soft - not gritty enough to win slams.
The way Andy dresses doesn't matter. He normally comes out clean shaven anyways. Just because he doesn't wear polos like Fed doesn't mean anything either.
To me it seems like the article wants Murray to get back together with the coach that got him to no. 8 in the world. Brad Gilbert. A guy who will force him to stop playing timid even if they don't get along.
To me it seems like the article wants Murray to get back together with the coach that got him to no. 8 in the world. Brad Gilbert. A guy who will force him to stop playing timid even if they don't get along.
Sreeram
Professional
Some people feel by shaving and personal glooming before participating in an event (like tennis match in this case) is a way to show that you are serious about the event. So the author felt that Murray has not shown enough seriousness.
According to me Andy has different levels of game in him, unlike Rafa who cannot play bad even if he wants, Andy can play God leve, decent, bad and poor etc. Playing at God level requires him to put extra effort but he is naturally lethargic and does not want to do it all the time. He can win rest of the opponent by playing tennis that fluctuates between decent and bad level. But to play a top 3, he has to get the God level for all 3 to 5 sets. Which he can do but his natural tendency is to fluctuate between different levels does not let him sustain a level. He needs a coach who can identify what things lead him to play this highest level that he has in him over a longer period of time.
Whatever happens he will still be my favorite player.
According to me Andy has different levels of game in him, unlike Rafa who cannot play bad even if he wants, Andy can play God leve, decent, bad and poor etc. Playing at God level requires him to put extra effort but he is naturally lethargic and does not want to do it all the time. He can win rest of the opponent by playing tennis that fluctuates between decent and bad level. But to play a top 3, he has to get the God level for all 3 to 5 sets. Which he can do but his natural tendency is to fluctuate between different levels does not let him sustain a level. He needs a coach who can identify what things lead him to play this highest level that he has in him over a longer period of time.
Whatever happens he will still be my favorite player.
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Examples of clean cut slam winners:
Antonio Puente
Hall of Fame
Don't forget that AELTC basically denied Henman a shot at the Wimbledon title by slowing down their surface in 2002, which was Henman's best chance at winning Wimbledon. I think that year he was a big favorite to win since he was the last true S&V player in his prime at the time.
Very few good coaches actually have been in the pantheon of greats. Tony Roche, Jimmy Connors, and.... uh I can't remember now. There are a very, very, very few select players who are both good at playing the game and coaching.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Except he isn't Murray's coach.
ATXtennisaddict
Hall of Fame
I think what Lloyd's trying to get at is "mindset". Maybe Murray's a superstitious tennis player and won't shave until he loses. Ok, that's fine.
But maybe he has to try something new when it comes to getting into the right state of mind going into a final. Waking up, showering, shaving clean, eating a good breakfast, all that makes *me* personally feel ready to take on anything.
Maybe Andy doesn't need to shave. But something else might help get him into battle-mode. The question is, "What will?"
But maybe he has to try something new when it comes to getting into the right state of mind going into a final. Waking up, showering, shaving clean, eating a good breakfast, all that makes *me* personally feel ready to take on anything.
Maybe Andy doesn't need to shave. But something else might help get him into battle-mode. The question is, "What will?"
Similar threads
