Nadal skips Indian Wells and Miami

[Sid_Vicious]

???

I'm not even really a Nadal fan so I'm not giving him special consideration, but strategic scheduling has been part of the game for a very long time. Do you also think Roddick was cowardly for often skipping or lackadaisically playing events in the clay season? Federer has been a master scheduler in recent years, is he a coward for not playing MC or Miami this year (two events in which he is historically relatively weak)? Keep in mind that Nadal is quite probably even closer to retirement and leaving the game than Federer, and it is no surprise that he is selectively scheduling events.

Nadal has been out of the game for 8 months with an injury and his game is nowhere where it was when he started the break. I think he is justified in regaining his confidence on his preferred surfaces before playing top players on hard court again. Or, as you said, it could really be his knees. It wouldn't be the first time in tennis history that players with knee problems avoid playing hard court events.

That is a very weak example. Federer has reached the age where he is allowed to have a flexible schedule. He never ditched Miami and MC because he felt he was not good enough to face the competition. Similarly, Federer, Djokovic, and Murray won't be ditching Rome and Madrid for dinky clay court tournaments in South America and eastern europe simply because Nadal might feed them breadsticks if they show up to those events. Nadal's decision to skip those two big events might be smart, but it sure does look really bad.

 

[RS92]

Not surprised at all

 

[President]

That is a very weak example. Federer has reached the age where he is allowed to have a flexible schedule. He never ditched Miami and MC because he felt he was not good enough to face the competition. Similarly, Federer, Djokovic, and Murray won't be ditching Rome and Madrid for dinky clay court tournaments in South America and eastern europe simple because Nadal might feed them breadsticks if they show up to those events. Nadal's decision to skip those two big events might be smart, but it sure does look really bad.

Well it's not like Nadal does this every year, this is the first time he has played these small clay tournaments since 2005. Neither Djokovic nor Federer have had a situation like Nadal's where they have been out for such an extended period and lost much of their form, so it's a bit unfair to judge Nadal by the same metric. And, its not like Nadal is playing clay tournaments INSTEAD of IW and Miami, he isn't playing anything at all. It's highly probable that he just needs a rest after playing 3 tournaments for the first time in 8 months.

And do you really think Federer would be skipping MC and Miami if they were (hypothetically) indoor HC masters where had huge success in recent years? Hell, I'm pretty confident the only reason he is playing IW at all is because he is the defending champion there and doesn't want to lose points (and I hope he doesn't!). In my opinion it's obvious that Federer's decision not to play those 2 Masters is, in part, due to his relative lack of success there in recent years.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

And do you really think Federer would be skipping MC and Miami if they were (hypothetically) indoor HC masters where had huge success in recent years? Hell, I'm pretty confident the only reason he is playing IW at all is because he is the defending champion there and doesn't want to lose points (and I hope he doesn't!). In my opinion it's obvious that Federer's decision not to play those 2 Masters is, in part, due to his relative lack of success there in recent years.

Please. Federer knows he can make QF/SF runs at those two events if he is even remotely motivated. Federer has been treating Miami like a vacation for the past few years apperance. You are right in that Federer probably does not like playing those events and has built preferences for certain tournaments over the course his career, but his poor performances are not the reason he is ditching Miami. If that was the only thing on Federer's mind, why on earth would he have signed up to play Canada this year? Just like Miami, since 2006, Federer has made the occasional deep run combined with several horrible losses.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

Btw, I read that there is still some doubt about this report. Something about Nadal's camp not having made an official statement yet. Any info on this?

 

[President]

Please. Federer knows he can make QF/SF runs at those two events if he is even remotely motivated. Federer has been treating Miami like a vacation for the past few years apperance. You are right in that Federer probably does not like playing those events and has built preferences for certain tournaments over the course his career, but his poor performances are not the reason he is ditching Miami. If that was the only thing on Federer's mind, why on earth would he have signed up to play Canada this year? Just like Miami, since 2006, Federer has made the occasional deep run combined with several horrible losses.

That isn't the only thing on Federer's mind, but surely it is a factor. Just like avoiding getting thrashed prematurely by rivals surely isn't the only thing on Nadal's mind, his knees are a big consideration as well.

My point wasn't to belittle Federer, but to dispel some of the double standard around this place when it comes to Nadal.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

That isn't the only thing on Federer's mind, but surely it is a factor. Just like avoiding getting thrashed prematurely by rivals surely isn't the only thing on Nadal's mind, his knees are a big consideration as well.

My point wasn't to belittle Federer, but to dispel some of the double standard around this place when it comes to Nadal.

Well, Halberstram. I got nothing more to say. You have a point.

 

[fedhingis515]

First no Federer now no Nadal? I can't deal with another Djokovic v. Murray final.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

First no Federer now no Nadal? I can't deal with another Djokovic v. Murray final.

How about you pre-game for that matchup by watching these amazing highlights.

2009:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZeLsfdBaXs
2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b18Wvf2M2cg

 

[Vrad]

Btw, I read that there is still some doubt about this report. Something about Nadal's camp not having made an official statement yet. Any info on this?

There is always doubt about anything Nadal says.

His camp's official PR strategy seems to be "let's just make sh*t up".

 

[EastAngels2014]

No more hard court for Nadal. He will just do clay cour season from now one which isnt a bad idea in my opinion if he want to play longer and not retire before Roger. But will be play the hard court majors?

 

[President]

Well, Halberstram. I got nothing more to say. You have a point.

Paul Allen has mistaken me for this ****head Marcus Halberstram. It seems logical because Marcus also works at P&P and in fact does the same exact thing I do and he also has a penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses. Marcus and I even go to the same barber, although I have a slightly better haircut.

 

[Tshooter]

Paul Allen has mistaken me for this ****head Marcus Halberstram. It seems logical because Marcus also works at P&P and in fact does the same exact thing I do and he also has a penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses. Marcus and I even go to the same barber, although I have a slightly better haircut.

Allen has the better business card though. Subtle off white coloring, tasteful thickness, watermark.

 

[Rjtennis]

I'm not a Nadal fan by any means but I hate to hear this. It's terrible when a player in any sport has to make sacrifices because they simply cannot physically compete. I think his knee is a lot worse than him and his team are letting on and I see an unfortunate early retirement for him.

Agreed, its never good to have an all-time great struggling from injury and I'm far from a Rafa fan. I don't think retirement is nearing, but he may have to go back and get the surgery they initially thought he needed if he is still in a lot of pain. It's definetly not a good sign that he is missing both tournament. He took a long time off to rest so it's a bad sign that that he is taking another long break. He really needs the matches and some nice wins to get his confidence back. Thus far in his comeback we haven't see great form or his signature swagger.

 

[dafinch]

Maybe he ISN'T pulling out of both:

http://tennis.si.com/2013/02/26/rafael-nadal-indian-wells-miami-withdraw/

The above may turn out to be Karl Rove on Election Night disputing his own network's calling of the election for Obama, lol...

 

[Rjtennis]

Actually murray and joker both have similar styles to rafa, but so far they have been able to hold up better.[/QUOTE]

Murray maybe, but Nole is consistently way more aggressive. That's really what has separated the two in a lot of big matches IMO.

 

[Rjtennis]

Maybe he ISN'T pulling out of both:

http://tennis.si.com/2013/02/26/rafael-nadal-indian-wells-miami-withdraw/

The above may turn out to be Karl Rove on Election Night disputing his own network's calling of the election for Obama, lol...

Sounds like the story is BS at this point. Hopefully, he will play one of the tournaments. Even if he doesn't do well I think it would send the message that he is healthy and ready to win more big titles.

 

[Rocky89]

There is always doubt about anything Nadal says.

His camp's official PR strategy seems to be "let's just make sh*t up".

What? The media released this story as if it's fact with no sources and used quotes Nadal had used from a previous interview.

This didn't even come from the Nadal camp. The only people making sh*t up is the media.

I wouldn't be surprised if he withdraws from IW or Miami though, but it would would be a bit worrying.

 

[Rocky89]

Yeah, so what? Those guys have a shot at beating anyone on HC on a given day. If everyone took Nadal's course of action, nobody would show up to a masters event and play dinky 250s/500s all the time. Nadal's decision is just lame and cowardly, unless he tells people the truth about his condition. Are his knees in such a poor state that he can't even play on HCs or is he just avoiding butt-whoopings at the hands of his rivals? If the latter is his reasoning for skipping those events, the guy is a massive baby.

If Nadal were to skip these tournaments it would be primarily because his knee is bothering him and he doesn't want to risk injuring it again, especially on hard courts. Nothing 'lame and cowardly' about that.

 

[adil1972]

so wikipedia was right about nadal skipping all the hard court events in the first half of 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Rafael_Nadal_tennis_season

 

[ledwix]

If Nadal were to skip these tournaments it would be primarily because his knee is bothering him and he doesn't want to risk injuring it again, especially on hard courts. Nothing 'lame and cowardly' about that.

If he skipped one tournament, I think you would have a point. But both? These are the most prestigious of the masters events basically. Or at least the most prestigious consecutive two masters events. He could have time to rest during IW, but if he skipped both despite playing three tournaments in four weeks the month before, he would effectively be protesting the hard courts. To remain consistent, he should at least pull out of the 500 level clay event if he is going to avoid the top competition and his rivals. Then it would at least look like he played the 250s to get back into things.

"I'm injured, I can't play either of these prestigious masters events, BUT I can play a bunch of minuscule tournaments before that on my favorite surface" would sound strange.

 

[Goosehead]

so wikipedia was right about nadal skipping all the hard court events in the first half of 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Rafael_Nadal_tennis_season

theres some big errors on that..

thought nadal has played around 715 single matches..that page you link on wiki says 590s

 

[namelessone]

Classic TW thread, with a Nadal hater posting RUMORS of him withdrawing from the next 2 HC MS and all the gullible people and other haters jumping on the bandwagon.

And even IF Nadal skips both of these MS, what is the problem? The guy still has pain in his knees after 7 months of rest while playing 4 matches per week(and against meekly competition) on the friendliest surface for the body, how do you think he can handle pounding his knees on hardcourt in 2 events, even if there is a break between them. I think Nadal plays at most one of these events but I would hardly be surprised to see him skipping both.

 

[fed_is_GOD]

Someone must have slipped Nadal a rumor that IW and Miami are using the chairs from AO 2012.

you are a funny guy.. ;-)

 

[marc45]

after match last night i believe nadal said it just depended on how he feels after this week, and monday i assume....that can be a tough stretch of almagro, ferrer, and del potro, sat-mon., in two cities...that will say a lot

and this was the worst of journalism, and fans, come together in this thread

 

[marc45]

And it will be a sad day for tennis. With Roddick out, I already lost a bit of interest. I can imagine the ATP tour looking like post Sampras retirement where there's a new winner at each tournament and no one really dominating. As much as I respect Djokovic and Murray, I have little interest in they're tennis style and I won't be paying top dollar to see them in action or watch 5+ hour matches of defending.

well, i'm including djokovic and murray with rafa and fed, so....

 

[Crisstti]

The Wimbledon thing I just think it's a ridiculous comment considering Nadal has only won at Wimbledon twice, lost at Wimbledon when he wasn't injured (2011) to someone Federer beat last year, and Federer has had lost at Wimbledon to Tsonga and Berdych as many times as he's lost to Nadal. It's this acting like Nadal is the king of Wimbledon and Federer loses at wimbledon because of him. Sorry, it's not all about Nadal (Federer actually has other problems to worry about) - Murray beat Federer over 5 sets on grass far more convincingly than Nadal did (and has a better grass H2H vs Federer funnily enough) but I don't think I've seen any Murray fans suggest that Federer can't beat Murray there... He probabaly WOULD struggle vs any of the top guys, but that's not the point.

So it's not offensive, it's just silly. Btw you do get somewhat annoyed at very mild comments about Nadal.

Maybe that's because he has beaten Murray recently, while he hasn't beaten Nadal at a slam since 2007.

Silly?, I don't think so. An exaggeration definitely, but Fed has indeed won Wimbledon when Rafa's been injured both in 209 and 2012, but I guess that's just a coincidence, especially when you see the case's been basically the same in the other slams...

Anyway, what is silly is that out of the stuff posted on this thread, it's my comments that warrants this discussion...

 

[augustobt]

Why not Miami, Rafa?

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Maybe that's because he has beaten Murray recently, while he hasn't beaten Nadal at a slam since 2007.

Silly?, I don't think so. An exaggeration definitely, but Fed has indeed won Wimbledon when Rafa's been injured both in 209 and 2012, but I guess that's just a coincidence, especially when you see the case's been basically the same in the other slams...

Anyway, what is silly is that out of the stuff posted on this thread, it's my comments that warrants this discussion...

Coincidence? Rafa's nearly always injured. He was injured at FO 12 with those injections to the knee. He was injured just days before AO 12, he had foot injuries during W 11, AO 11 it was hamstring, AO 10 it was injury, USO 09 it was the stomach.....

So no matter what Federer wins, Nadal would have always been injured.

 

[Steve0904]

Yeah, this whole thing about Federer and Nadal at Wimbledon is complete BS. First of all, has nobody taken into consideration that half of the final (and the whole SF) was played indoors. If anybody thinks Federer only won because Nadal was injured you're deluding yourself given the above fact, and the indoor record between these two. Not to mention that the match Nadal lost was played for 4 sets OUTDOORS, and only 1 indoors, a set which he lost. Another fact is that Nadal has only won 1 set out of 9 indoors against Federer, while Federer has taken half of the sets played on outdoor grass not including 2006. In fact, Federer actually has a higher winning % against Rafa on indoor courts than Nadal does against Fed on clay.

Just some food for thought.

 

[augustobt]

It's to easy to keep a good h2h when you don't play against your opponents.

 

[Steve0904]

Coincidence? Rafa's nearly always injured. He was injured at FO 12 with those injections to the knee. He was injured just days before AO 12, he had foot injuries during W 11, AO 11 it was hamstring, AO 10 it was injury, USO 09 it was the stomach.....

So no matter what Federer wins, Nadal would have always been injured.

He wasn't injured at USO 08. He was just tired from the Olympics.

 

[spperry]

Disappointed to see that.

Hope he makes it through the clay court season and does well.

Hopefully he doesnt retire soon, tennis would be worse without him.

 

[mariecon]

Paul Allen has mistaken me for this ****head Marcus Halberstram. It seems logical because Marcus also works at P&P and in fact does the same exact thing I do and he also has a penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses. Marcus and I even go to the same barber, although I have a slightly better haircut.

Are you obsessed with American Psycho? I love that movie

 

[mariecon]

If he skipped one tournament, I think you would have a point. But both? These are the most prestigious of the masters events basically. Or at least the most prestigious consecutive two masters events. He could have time to rest during IW, but if he skipped both despite playing three tournaments in four weeks the month before, he would effectively be protesting the hard courts. To remain consistent, he should at least pull out of the 500 level clay event if he is going to avoid the top competition and his rivals. Then it would at least look like he played the 250s to get back into things.

"I'm injured, I can't play either of these prestigious masters events, BUT I can play a bunch of minuscule tournaments before that on my favorite surface" would sound strange.

well since he would be forfeiting his 720 pts. (and any further pts.) by skipping IW and Miami, by playing these smaller tournaments he has the potential to make up the pts. lost, while avoiding the hard courts. He can't really afford to lose any more points than he already has without falling further down the rankings.

 

[mariecon]

Classic TW thread, with a Nadal hater posting RUMORS of him withdrawing from the next 2 HC MS and all the gullible people and other haters jumping on the bandwagon.

And even IF Nadal skips both of these MS, what is the problem? The guy still has pain in his knees after 7 months of rest while playing 4 matches per week(and against meekly competition) on the friendliest surface for the body, how do you think he can handle pounding his knees on hardcourt in 2 events, even if there is a break between them. I think Nadal plays at most one of these events but I would hardly be surprised to see him skipping both.

Rumors? uh considering it was reported by espn and this Marca article...http://www.marca.com/2013/02/26/en/...f7d80a49523744857e3fafce41b29478&t=1361973992 , among other reputable sources, why wouldn't people believe it? I think it's probably true but the Nadal camp didn't want it to get out just yet, because he will face a penalty if he plays another tournament before the two he's pulling out of.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

This thread should be put on hiatus until Rafa announces catching dengue fever 2 weeks before IW.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

He wasn't injured at USO 08. He was just tired from the Olympics.

I remember a poster here once saying that Nadal "Was drunk with victory, because he had won so much heading into NYC, that he wasn't that bothered."

But continuing the trend, RG 09 injured, USO 07 Bad knees, W 07 Bad knees, and scheduling. AO 07 pain in his famous you-know-what....

I don't think Roger has ever won anything with a healthy Nadal in the draw. So it's no coincidence, it is just the way of the universe.

 

[Towser83]

Classic TW thread, with a Nadal hater posting RUMORS of him withdrawing from the next 2 HC MS and all the gullible people and other haters jumping on the bandwagon.

And even IF Nadal skips both of these MS, what is the problem? The guy still has pain in his knees after 7 months of rest while playing 4 matches per week(and against meekly competition) on the friendliest surface for the body, how do you think he can handle pounding his knees on hardcourt in 2 events, even if there is a break between them. I think Nadal plays at most one of these events but I would hardly be surprised to see him skipping both.

i would think skipping one is a good idea. but if he skips two? After 8 months off if his knees are too bad to play hc, when will they ever be good enough to especially considering his schedule of clay events? That would seem to me to be avoiding getting blasted off the court because you know on hc you could get badly beaten.

Maybe that's because he has beaten Murray recently, while he hasn't beaten Nadal at a slam since 2007.

Silly?, I don't think so. An exaggeration definitely, but Fed has indeed won Wimbledon when Rafa's been injured both in 209 and 2012, but I guess that's just a coincidence, especially when you see the case's been basically the same in the other slams...

Anyway, what is silly is that out of the stuff posted on this thread, it's my comments that warrants this discussion...

Doesn't really matter, we've seen Murray thrash fed and then beat him in a slam. and sorry to tell you but Nadal making the final of wimbledon isn't always a given. despite the 5 finals he's come close to losing to journeymen several timesso no need to put the rosol loss down to injury. Nadal only is a contender at wimbledon when journeymen choke...
also Nadal is always injured hence when anyone wins he is injured.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

You guys don't seem to get it - Nadal is permanently injured. He announced this himself in his bio - his left foot is mangled since birth, causing him to break it badly in '05. Trying to alleviate the stress on this foot, he has predictably permanently ruined his knees.

These are the facts, deal with it.

 

[Benhur]

At AO, he either gets injured (2007, 2010, 2011) or he plays exhausting marathon matches (2009: Verdasco/Fed, 2012: Djoko) that set up a catastrophic physical collapse later in the year. He's infinitely better off skipping it if you ask me. (Although of course, as a spectator, I will miss him).

This is so true. I had never looked at it that way, but it does look as if the better he does at the AO, the worse the rest of the year turns out for him. He's better off getting injured there than making it to the final.
I do think at this point Nadal should seriously consider giving up hardcourts altogether if he wants to keep playing for a while. It would mean abandoning all prospects of ever making it back to the top, but the alternative seems much worse.

 

[ivan_the_terrible]

This is so true. I had never looked at it that way, but it does look as if the better he does at the AO, the worse the rest of the year turns out for him. He's better off getting injured there than making it to the final.
I do think at this point Nadal should seriously consider giving up hardcourts altogether if he wants to keep playing for a while. It would mean abandoning all prospects of ever making it back to the top, but the alternative seems much worse.

Are you saying he should play the full claycourt season + Wimbly+Queens to save his knees? Do these tournaments not include running & changing direction with a lot of grinding from the baseline (on clay especially)? How is this possible with his knee issues?

 

[Start da Game]

people are overreacting.......don't let rafa make you fools by this year end.......by skipping iw/mim he is just not rushing his comeback, that's it.......

he should have played AO, which he din't as a precautionary measure.......now how do you expect him to play two clown hardcourt events when he has already started his comeback on the softer surface (clay) and wants to stick to it for few more months?

 

[namelessone]

i would think skipping one is a good idea. but if he skips two? After 8 months off if his knees are too bad to play hc, when will they ever be good enough to especially considering his schedule of clay events? That would seem to me to be avoiding getting blasted off the court because you know on hc you could get badly beaten.

If you've watched Nadal in his comeback you have seen that he is prime to getting blown off the court even by journeymen on clay now, let alone top players, so I don't think meeting Federer/Djokovic/Murray on clay or other surfaces would make much of a difference. I was watching Nadal's first match in Acapulco, third tourney since the comeback, and his level still looked quite low to me.

Doesn't look anywhere near close to beating a top 3 guy on clay but even so, I doubt he skips MC or Rome. Why? Friendly surface. If Nadal still has pain in his knees after such a long time and even with playing on clay, then you might just have to get used to him skipping HC alltogether, save for maybe the slams in the future. If his body can't allow him to play on hard surfaces anymore then I don't think we should judge him. I'd rather Nadal become a "natural surfaces" specialist and see him only one third of the year for a couple of years more than him play all out like in the past and retire in 1,2 years tops.

Nadal only is a contender at wimbledon when journeymen choke...

Boy, those journeymen were sure choking with regularity in WB in the 2006-2011 time interval since Nadal made finals in every WB he played in that period.