Nadal is still officially in his prime.

[Captain Grant]

In an interview Rafael Nadal revealed fear of failure affected his form in 2015. In that case it couldn't be considered as a real decline of reflexes, he's just scared to bring his best game. According to Roger Federer's fans(if our team of unbiased analysts takes their words at face value) their idol lost the confidence as a result of movement/power decline, but you don't see Rafa mentioning that he has physically declined - no, he says about experiencing some kind of psychological prostration. For example Djokovic was also doubting himself if he could repeat his 2011 season duirng 2012-2014, but he was still officially in his prime despite mentally average state.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

So basically, he's scared to see if his best isn't good enough because Djokovic has struck the fear of Djokovic into mankind. It would be too crushing for him to produce his best game only to lose in straight sets.

 

[Captain Grant]

I decided to not trust Federer fans and check out what Roger himself says about it.

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.

Boom. Federer says the same thing about confidence and he also doesn't mention that physical decline(if there was one) affected his mental powers - it's more a matter of losing more matches than in 2006 when Ljubicic was №3.

 

[Captain Grant]

So basically, he's scared to see if his best isn't good enough because Djokovic has struck the fear of Djokovic into mankind. It would be too crushing for him to produce his best game only to lose in straight sets.

Good point as always. Why not? You certainly have some psychologist's talents to dig deeply.

 

[Nathaniel_Near]

Back in 2006, Ljubicic was #3, but these days it's Federer who is #3. There is a big difference between Ljubicic and Federer.

 

[Captain Grant]

Back in 2006, Ljubicic was #3, but these days it's Federer who is #3. There is a big difference between Ljubicic and Federer.

Not that I don't have anything to do in my free time, but such threads wouldn't be emerging if Nad or Fed have admitted that they're losing because of declining. They talk only about losing the confidence because their era was replaced with Djokovic era and they don't win as much as before.

 

[Enga]

Typically speaking, an athlete doesnt just suddenly become weak and slow just because they hit 30. They typically are stronger and more durable than ever.

Still doesnt change that in tennis, strength and endurance isnt king, and speed is where a lot of difference matters. Getting to the ball that .50 seconds earlier allows a player to more consistently hit a good shot, and allows them to build confidence in the knowledge they can get to every ball. Once you cant get to the ball in time, I imagine it starts to feel less like you're in control, and more like its in the opponents control.

Younger tennis players always run faster, and always seem to swing faster as well. Not to mention that they have less wear and tear, so they can more often run at max speed with less concern for injury.

 

[Livedeath]

So basically, he's scared to see if his best isn't good enough because Djokovic has struck the fear of Djokovic into mankind. It would be too crushing for him to produce his best game only to lose in straight sets.

Too cruel of you to state the truth in a blunt manner.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

Nole this, Nole that. Pray what does prime Nole have to do with Rafa losing to Fognini? OMG clay is so strong now, prime Rafa can't even beat Fognini. Foggy is gonna win 17 RGs from hereon because he will be playing his best tennis when he's 64.

 

[Gary Duane]

I decided to not trust Federer fans and check out what Roger himself says about it.

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.

Boom. Federer says the same thing about confidence and he also doesn't mention that physical decline(if there was one) affected his mental powers - it's more a matter of losing more matches than in 2006 when Ljubicic was №3.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

 

[Backspin1183]

Captain Grant, do you have a job?

 

[SpinToWin]

So original. The depth of novel analysis and thought provoking commentary is exasperating.

 

[ABCD]

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.

Just to let you know that I am with you and Federer on this one.

 

[octobrina10]

In an interview Rafael Nadal revealed fear of failure affected his form in 2015. In that case it couldn't be considered as a real decline of reflexes, he's just scared to bring his best game. According to Roger Federer's fans(if our team of unbiased analysts takes their words at face value) their idol lost the confidence as a result of movement/power decline, but you don't see Rafa mentioning that he has physically declined - no, he says about experiencing some kind of psychological prostration. For example Djokovic was also doubting himself if he could repeat his 2011 season duirng 2012-2014, but he was still officially in his prime despite mentally average state.

Rafa and U.Toni have explained Rafa's problems this year several times.

An excerpt from U.Toni's recent interview with COP, a radio network in Spain [translated by @genny]:
"What happened to Rafa [lack of confidence] was coming from constant stress, not due to competition, but due to injuries.
"Getting injured in the AO 2014 final was a big blow. When he recovered, the wrist issue happened and then appendicitis when he was trying to come back. All this caused him a huge stress and lack of confidence in his body. He was going on court without knowing/trusting what his body would do."

http://www.cope.es/player/Toni-Nada...ser-el-de-antes&id=2015122301340002&activo=10


Rafa's quote from his recent interview (to be fully realeased on CANAL+ on January 1st; translated by @genny):
“This past season my mind was blocked. I was not able to do any kind of mental work on court.”

https://twitter.com/InformeRobinson/status/679687177400225792

 

[DerekNoleFam1]

Nadal has a lot of mileage though, he is no Agassi at 29, so his prime is definitely behind him.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Mods, please ban this guy.

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Just watch Rafa from 2008 and watch him now. Much slower and weaker in the corners. Of course he has declined pshysically. Just because he doesn't say it in own words, doesn't mean it can't be true

 

[tennis_commentator]

One thing is for sure, RAFA is about 7 years passed his physical prime.
He's best court coverage was 2008 (and obviously earlier).
Even when he won 3 slams in 2010, he was not the same athlete (but he only had to beat Berdych in the Wimbledon final, and Soderling in the RG final).
His knees got wrecked in 2009 (began in late 2008 and got even worse when he played the marathons at 2009 AO), and he's never been the same again.

 

[ABCD]

Captain Grant, do you have a job?

You do realise how funny is that this is asked by someone having >9K posts and liked by an individual who has >15K posts.

 

[dadadas]

Hilarious thread

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You do realise how funny is that this is asked by someone having >9K posts and liked by an individual who has >15K posts.

 

[Backspin1183]

You do realise how funny is that this is asked by someone having >9K posts and liked by an individual who has >15K posts.

I'm trying to help some unemployed dude get a job. You got a problem with that? Some of us have been here years before some of you newbies showed up. So we are expected to have more posts than one month old posters like Captain Grant and yourself.

 

[tennisaddict]

Rafa's nervousness in 2015 is symptomatic of tennis played by newbies.

He got into his grove slowly towards the end of the year and we can easily see that he is going to hit his peak the next 3-4 years. Path is clear

 

[Kalin]

I wish people would stop quoting Fed's 'I'm much better now than when I was young and strong, No. 1 in the world, winning 3 Slams a year and 40 matches in a row'. Seriously.

As for Rafa, injuries and mileage means he's also not the same physical phenom that he was when he was younger. Lack of confidence can be reversed; the two others won't be. Doesn't mean he's Finnish yet but, just like Fed, he'll never be the player he was when he was younger and injury-free. And Rafa's game is even more dependent on his physicality than Fed's.

Of course, given the huge sucking void which the ATP (except for the big 4.5) currently is, Rafa (and Fed) can still semi-GOAT it for a while with relative impunity.

 

[wy2sl0]

They are nitpicking quotes from a large excerpt of text. If you see what he really said was, "I may be a better player today, but the years of experience make me second guess myself all the time".

Sure, you can become a better player from a technical standpoint, however the mind is the difference when you are at this level. They can all (top 10) hit winners from anywhere on the court and serve well, we already know that.

 

[ABCD]

I wish people would stop quoting Fed's 'I'm much better now than when I was young and strong, No. 1 in the world, winning 3 Slams a year and 40 matches in a row'. Seriously.

When I watched WTF, Henman, Castle and Barker also said that Federer has never been better than in 2015. Also, somebody on TTW brought to my attention that Borg said a similar thing.

 

[Kalin]

When I watched WTF, Henman, Castle and Barker also said that Federer has never been better than in 2015. Also, somebody on TTW brought to my attention that Borg said a similar thing.

Maybe, maybe... Fed currently being No.3 in the world (while apparently at his best ever) means that Andy Murray now (not when he was winning Grand Slams but right now) is a better player than Federer ever was. It makes complete sense so they must be right.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[octobrina10]

I wish people would stop quoting Fed's 'I'm much better now than when I was young and strong, No. 1 in the world, winning 3 Slams a year and 40 matches in a row'. Seriously.

As for Rafa, injuries and mileage means he's also not the same physical phenom that he was when he was younger. Lack of confidence can be reversed; the two others won't be. Doesn't mean he's Finnish yet but, just like Fed, he'll never be the player he was when he was younger and injury-free. And Rafa's game is even more dependent on his physicality than Fed's.

Of course, given the huge sucking void which the ATP (except for the big 4.5) currently is, Rafa (and Fed) can still semi-GOAT it for a while with relative impunity.

Rafa has never been injury-free. For example, he skipped the 2003 FO due to a shoulder and the 2004 FO due to a foot injury (a crack).
Rafa was born with an anatomical peculiarity of his left foot. In 2005, at the age of 19, when the foot problem came to light, he was told he might never be able to play tennis again. The abnormal position/growth of a tarsal bone of his left foot caused him excruciating pain. He started to wear a special sole (designed by doctors and Nike) in his tennis shoe (custom-made) to take the weight off the troublesome bone, but this has caused problems with muscles and tendons at the knee as the weight in his leg is subtly shifted.

 

[Sysyphus]

When I watched WTF, Henman, Castle and Barker also said that Federer has never been better than in 2015. Also, somebody on TTW brought to my attention that Borg said a similar thing.

What Borg said, after the Murray semi of Wimbledon, was that he hadn't seen Fed play that well in years—the implicit statement being that Fred used to produce those more regularly in his best years. This is a different thing altogether than saying he has never been a better player than in 2015.

 

[merwy]

Your logic is so messed up. Both Fed-fans and Nadal-fans are saying their idol has declined physically. On top of that, Nadal is saying he has declined mentally. Federer just isn't saying anything at all.

 

[Sysyphus]

And as if psychological impediments aren't valid reasons for not priming. If Novak goes full schizo and starts hitting all balls into the stands and doing flicflacs instead, are we still to say that he is nonetheless priming as a player?

 

[octobrina10]

Your logic is so messed up. Both Fed-fans and Nadal-fans are saying their idol has declined physically. On top of that, Nadal is saying he has declined mentally. Federer just isn't saying anything at all.

Rafa hasn't said he has declined - it's your interpretation of his words.

 

[Sysyphus]

Rafa hasn't said he has declined - it's your interpretation of his words.

Rafa hasn't not said that he has declined — it's your interpretation of his words.

 

[Kalin]

Rafa has never been injury-free. For example, he skipped the 2003 FO due to a shoulder and the 2004 FO due to a foot injury (a crack).
Rafa was born with an anatomical peculiarity of his left foot. In 2005, at the age of 19, when the foot problem came to light, he was told he might never be able to play tennis again. The abnormal position/growth of a tarsal bone of his left foot caused him excruciating pain. He started to wear a special sole (designed by doctors and Nike) in his tennis shoe (custom-made) to take the weight off the troublesome bone, but this has caused problems with muscles and tendons at the knee as the weight in his leg is subtly shifted.

No argument about Rafa never being completely injury-free. However, a young person can still overcome these and perform, as we have seen with him. The older one gets and the more mileage the body has the longer it takes to recover from such injuries... and then, at some point, you can't recover anymore. Knees, especially ones with problems like Rafa has, are never getting better with age.

Good luck to Rafa but time, just like with Fed, is not on his side, alas.

 

[ABCD]

What Borg said, after the Murray semi of Wimbledon, was that he hadn't seen Fed play that well in years—the implicit statement being that Fred used to produce those more regularly in his best years. This is a different thing altogether than saying he has never been a better player than in 2015.

I didn't hear/read Borg's statement myself, but the statement "hadn't seen Fed play that well in years" does not mean that he used to produce those more regularly in the past. On the contrary, it means that he produced similar level some time in the past and not that often. For me, statement of Federer alone is more than sufficient to accept that his highest level so far was in 2015. Who am I to argue with him about him?

 

[ABCD]

Rafa hasn't said he has declined - it's your interpretation of his words.

True. Rafa didn't say that he declined.

 

[90's Clay]

In an interview Rafael Nadal revealed fear of failure affected his form in 2015. In that case it couldn't be considered as a real decline of reflexes, he's just scared to bring his best game. According to Roger Federer's fans(if our team of unbiased analysts takes their words at face value) their idol lost the confidence as a result of movement/power decline, but you don't see Rafa mentioning that he has physically declined - no, he says about experiencing some kind of psychological prostration. For example Djokovic was also doubting himself if he could repeat his 2011 season duirng 2012-2014, but he was still officially in his prime despite mentally average state.

Anyone who has seen Nadal's level 2014/2015 to 2013 and before would know hes not in his prime anymore.

-Level on clay respective to before? LAUGHABLE
- Grass level on clay respective to before? LAUGHABLE

-Off both wings from the baseline respective to before? LAUGHABLE. He hits like every damn shot short now.

Hard courts are probably where he has his only chance left of nabbing another title or two because his speed, movement, defense, weapons off both wings just aren't what they used to be

 

[Sysyphus]

I didn't hear/read Borg's statement myself, but the statement "hadn't seen Fed play that well in years" does not mean that he used to produce those more regularly in the past. On the contrary, it means that he produced similar level some time in the past and not that often. For me, statement of Federer alone is more than sufficient to accept that his highest level so far was in 2015. Who am I to argue with him about him?

Such a phrasing very rarely implies that.

Perhaps you are slightly unfamiliar with the English language? Not meaning to be crass here, simply wondering.

If I say to someone, "I haven't seen you this happy in years", it doesn't imply that the person was happy just one time several years ago—it implies that the person used to happy on the regz, then wasn't for several years, until he showed it again in this moment.

 

[ABCD]

Such a phrasing very rarely implies that.

Perhaps you are slightly unfamiliar with the English language? Not meaning to be crass here, simply wondering.

If I say to someone, "I haven't seen you this happy in years", it doesn't imply that the person was happy just one time several years ago—it implies that the person used to happy on the regz, then wasn't for several years, until he showed it again in this moment.

You forgot that this was stated by a Swede, while you interpret his statement as it was said by an Englishman.

 

[uscwang]

Beating No. 4 Stan 32 and No. 2 Murray 41 on his worst surface (indoor hard court) must have been inspiring for Rafa. And the win over No. 7 Ferrer completed his 3 consecutive wins over Top 8 players.
It boils down to how he handles the loss to Novak.

 

[Sysyphus]

You forgot that this was stated by a Swede, while you interpret his statement as it was said by an Englishman.

True, but being fluent in Swedish, I can inform that the same rule applies.

 

[ABCD]

True, but being fluent in Swedish, I can inform that the same rule applies.

Then, I am happy to remove Borg from list of those stating that Federer highest level was in 2015. As I said, for me, statement of Federer alone is more than enough.

 

[octobrina10]

No argument about Rafa never being completely injury-free. However, a young person can still overcome these and perform, as we have seen with him. The older one gets and the more mileage the body has the longer it takes to recover from such injuries... and then, at some point, you can't recover anymore. Knees, especially ones with problems like Rafa has, are never getting better with age.

Good luck to Rafa but time, just like with Fed, is not on his side, alas.

As for Rafa's knees, yes, they are not getting better with age, but he has undergone some therapies and his knees are in better condition than they were some years ago.

He skipped the 2009 Wimbledon due to tendinitis in his knees. He recovered from it thanks to PRP treatment in 2010 (April & July).
In the middle of 2012, he was diagnosed with Hoffa’s syndrome in his left knee. He suffered with it until he underwent stem cell treatment at the end of 2013. Due to an anatomical peculiarity of his left foot, his left knee has been affected more than the right.

He hasn't complained of knee pain for a long time, but it's true that they are very fragile. In his recent interview (on IB3, yesterday), he said that he wouldn't go back to Mallorca after the AO 2016 to avoid the cold and humidity of the Mallorcan winter, which are not good for his knees. He'll travel to South America.

 

[Kalin]

As for Rafa's knees, yes, they are not getting better with age, but he has undergone some therapies and his knees are in better condition than they were some years ago.

He skipped the 2009 Wimbledon due to tendinitis in his knees. He recovered from it thanks to PRP treatment in 2010 (April & July).
In the middle of 2012, he was diagnosed with Hoffa’s syndrome in his left knee. He suffered with it until he underwent stem cell treatment at the end of 2013. Due to an anatomical peculiarity of his left foot, his left knee has been affected more than the right.

He hasn't complained of knee pain for a long time, but it's true that they are very fragile. In his recent interview (on IB3, yesterday), he said that he wouldn't go back to Mallorca after the AO 2016 to avoid the cold and humidity of the Mallorcan winter, which are not good for his knees. He'll travel to South America.

Let's hope this helps him. Tennis will need a healthy Rafa (and Roger, yes, the two are becoming inseparable now being the elder statesmen of tennis ) . Having Nole unopposedly and mercilessly beat up on the cowering minions can't be good for the bottom line . Not saying Nole will not win against Rafa and Fed but at least he'll have to earn it, especially in the big finals. Nole is still susceptible to nerves but very few can exploit that (Rafa, Roger and Stan at times seem to be the only ones).

 

[SpinToWin]

As for Rafa's knees, yes, they are not getting better with age, but he has undergone some therapies and his knees are in better condition than they were some years ago.

He skipped the 2009 Wimbledon due to tendinitis in his knees. He recovered from it thanks to PRP treatment in 2010 (April & July).
In the middle of 2012, he was diagnosed with Hoffa’s syndrome in his left knee. He suffered with it until he underwent stem cell treatment at the end of 2013. Due to an anatomical peculiarity of his left foot, his left knee has been affected more than the right.

He hasn't complained of knee pain for a long time, but it's true that they are very fragile. In his recent interview (on IB3, yesterday), he said that he wouldn't go back to Mallorca after the AO 2016 to avoid the cold and humidity of the Mallorcan winter, which are not good for his knees. He'll travel to South America.

Just be direct and honest:
Has Rafa been playing prime tennis these past two years?

 

[Captain Grant]

Your logic is so messed up. Both Fed-fans and Nadal-fans are saying their idol has declined physically. On top of that, Nadal is saying he has declined mentally. Federer just isn't saying anything at all.

Yeah, but who cares what fans say? First hand information is what matters.

Anyone who has seen Nadal's level 2014/2015 to 2013 and before would know hes not in his prime anymore.

-Level on clay respective to before? LAUGHABLE
- Grass level on clay respective to before? LAUGHABLE

-Off both wings from the baseline respective to before? LAUGHABLE. He hits like every damn shot short now.

Hard courts are probably where he has his only chance left of nabbing another title or two because his speed, movement, defense, weapons off both wings just aren't what they used to be

The message of the thread is that Nadal doesn't bring his best because he's doubting himself too much. Nadal's prime(not peak) isn't something special considering out of 10 seasons Rafa had only 3 multiSlam seasons. The small mental difference may have been enough to lose his clay kingdom, but it doesn't mean he still isn't physically at his prime. Note that on clay Nadal's losses were only to top players.

In Nadal's case as octobrina10 revealed it's more about fearing if his body could hold the physical pressure while in Fed's case it was more of just not winning as much as when Ljubicic was №3. Their mental states are the products of their minds - it's not real, they were infuenced by the environment. These guys don't feel confident because of the understanding that to get to the very top they will have to beat a wall like Djokovic who will chase every ball like a dog and fight till the very end. Having a chance against this Djokovic would be possible only if Fedal brings their absolutely best tennis and as Nathaniel said even in such scenario it may not be enough and it kills them mentally.

 

[octobrina10]

Just be direct and honest:
Has Rafa been playing prime tennis these past two years?

He has been affected by injuries (back, wrist), and health problems (appendicitis).

 

[MasterZeb]

In an interview Rafael Nadal revealed fear of failure affected his form in 2015. In that case it couldn't be considered as a real decline of reflexes, he's just scared to bring his best game. According to Roger Federer's fans(if our team of unbiased analysts takes their words at face value) their idol lost the confidence as a result of movement/power decline, but you don't see Rafa mentioning that he has physically declined - no, he says about experiencing some kind of psychological prostration. For example Djokovic was also doubting himself if he could repeat his 2011 season duirng 2012-2014, but he was still officially in his prime despite mentally average state.

So just cause he didnt mention it in this interview means he OFFICIALLY hasnt declined? Feds said a numerous amount of times hes playing his best tennis currently, but does him saying that make it OFFICIALLY true? i could be 85 years old and say my body is as healthy as a 30 year olds, does that OFFICIALLY mean my body is the same?

 

[SpinToWin]

He has been affected by injuries (back, wrist), and health problems (appendicitis).

So he hasn't, good, at least there's something we can agree on.