Nadal targeted revenge over Federer at the WTF

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Rafael Nadal targets revenge over Roger Federer at ATP World Tour Finals
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Rafael Nadal has yet to win the World Tour Finals

  • Simon Briggs
10 NOVEMBER 2017 • 7:27 PM


After a miraculous year in which he regained the No 1 ranking and claimed his 10th French Open title, we might have expected Rafael Nadal to arrive in London with a regal strut.

The reality is grittier. Nadal comes into Sunday's Nitto ATP Finals with a bad knee and a score to settle with his oldest rival Roger Federer, who has beaten him in all four of their meetings this year. That stings, and Nadal is still grumbling about the way Federer disarmed his greatest weapon – red clay – by skipping the entirety of the European clay-court season.

“It would be great to finish the year playing against him again and to give me another chance,” said Nadal, who lost against Federer in the finals of the Australian Open, the Miami Open and the Shanghai Masters, as well as in the fourth round at Indian Wells.

“You cannot forget that we played all the time on surfaces that he likes more than me,” added Nadal. “Just accept that and just find different ways to approach the match. If that happens and I am healthy enough, I hope to have my chances.”

To conclude the perfect year, Nadal would need to come through his group – which also includes Grigor Dimitrov, Dominic Thiem and David Goffin – to reach next weekend’s semi-finals. And then to overcome Federer in a grandstand finish, preferably in the final.


Such a denouement would reproduce the excitement produced by Andy Murray’s showdown with Novak Djokovic in the final at the O2 last year. Indeed, it would probably draw an even greater audience to the BBC’s coverage, even if the top ranking spot is not on the line this time as it was 12 months ago.

For Nadal, success in London would taste all the sweeter because of an unexpected fact: surprisingly, the ATP Finals remains one of the few tournaments he has never won. Asked yesterday whether he would take extra motivation from this rare empty space on his CV, he replied: “It’s true that it’s always in my mind, but at the same time it’s always in my mind that I have qualified 13 times and have never played on a different surface to this one.”

Again, a trace of chippiness there from Nadal. Clearly the hard surfaces at the O2 Arena have not suited him as well as they have Federer, but then the end-of-season finals are obliged to be held indoors, unless the leading players are to make a long flight to a tropical destination. His preference would be for an indoor clay court, but such surfaces are an oddity, rarely seen outside the Davis Cup.


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Roger Federer remains elusive on whether he will challenge in next year's clay court season CREDIT: REUTERS
While Nadal is right to say that he qualified for the Finals 13 times, he has only participated seven times to date. His body is usually protesting by this late stage of the year, ground down by the relentlessness of his game style. This year, his right knee has been problematic, ruling him out of the Paris Masters ten days ago.

“I go day by day,” said Nadal, who is due to open his tournament against David Goffin on Monday night. “I didn’t play a normal session. I played one hour 30 yesterday, two hours today, one hour the day before yesterday. I am taking care and I don’t force more than what I can. I can’t predict what might happen in the next couple of days but my feeling is that I’m here to play and to try my best.”

As for Federer, he was asked yesterday whether he plans to return to the clay next season. The answer went on for several minutes, without giving any assurances. “I’m talking about that with my team right now,” he replied, “because they were a big part of me taking the decision [in April]. They said ‘Remember the year before, when you had problems with your knee on the clay’. That’s when I said, ‘OK, maybe it is the right decision not to push it, because it’s been a great season so far’.”


 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?
 

Maestroesque

Professional
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?
Maybe playing on slower hardcourts, but we saw what happened in Miami.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?


Think you hit the spot there. In the past, Nadal could fancy his chances against Federer even on hardcourts eg. 2009 AO final (and that still remains the 1 venue where he is able to challenge him) but the post AO season this year has been something of a shock to him and has drained him of confidence at the prospect of facing Fed anywhere but on clay.
 

fedtennisphan

Hall of Fame
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?

This what it sounds like to me otherwise him and his fans wouldn’t want to decrease HC and grass but leave clay alone.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Hey, isn’t that the guy who and his uncle tried to get the surface changed at WTF because he didn’t like a certain player winning it 6x to his none?

His remarks were no doubt self-serving, but at the same time, removing bias they make sense. The WTF is about the best players in the world having one last round-robin winner-takes all event, and if it made sense for anything to rotate and not necessarily favor anyone, it's the WTF.
 

Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
His remarks were no doubt self-serving, but at the same time, removing bias they make sense. The WTF is about the best players in the world having one last round-robin winner-takes all event, and if it made sense for anything to rotate and not necessarily favor anyone, it's the WTF.
Exactly. Slams are represented across surfaces. So are Masters. The WTF is not.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
His remarks were no doubt self-serving, but at the same time, removing bias they make sense. The WTF is about the best players in the world having one last round-robin winner-takes all event, and if it made sense for anything to rotate and not necessarily favor anyone, it's the WTF.

I could see that in principle but in practice I can't see how the players would prepare properly for clay at the end of the hard court season?
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I could see that in principle but in practice I can't see how the players would prepare properly for clay at the end of the hard court season?

I didn't say it was a perfect idea, just that clearly his thoughts about it aren't as malicious as people want to make it out. It's a perfectly reasonable opinion. At the least it could switch between in and outdoor HC. I liked it better when it was outside. Indoors is for carpet imo (which I wish was still around).
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?

yes, the psychological aspect.
 

sarmpas

Hall of Fame
“You cannot forget that we played all the time on surfaces that he likes more than me,” added Nadal.

He really say that?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Question for the forum experts @Hitman and @abmk and anyone else.

Would playing Federer on clay actually help Nadal when playing him on hard courts as in working out a strategy? If not, what's the point of him doing so? He already has an overwhelming H to H on clay so nothing to prove there. Is he effectively admitting that he needs the psychological advantage of beating him on clay to do so on hard?

I am not really in the mood for sensible posts today, but just for you, I make the exception. :)

Tennis expert? hardly. :D
Bodybuilding, nutrition expert, and experienced in actual real life legit world class competition... absolutely. ;)

Federer openly stated that not having to play Nadal for such a long period of time was one of the greatest weapons he brought onto the court. If you look at physiological blows that Federer has had suffered in key matches, they were often very quickly followed up by a very important match. Rome 2006 surely must have played on Federer's mind at RG 06, and we all know as he openly admitted that the RG 08 loss was a huge part in why Federer dropped the first two sets at W08 and played inside of his shell until Nadal started to choke...and that of course led to that fifth set AO 2009 complete and utter loss of form, and concentration. It was evident to me at least that when it came down to the crunch, Federer just didn't believe he would win.

Now, fast forward to AO 2017, they say time heals all wounds, well, it was never more evident than that fifth set, one of the greatest moments in tennis history. Federer just played more freely, and wasn't afraid of the outcome, if he was to lose, it would be on his own terms, in other words, if he gets beat, it is is because the better man beat him, not because he gave a helping hand. For Nadal, playing Federer on clay would be to put that doubt back in Fed's mind, because a full free flowing Roger who is 100% sure in his shots is simply a titanic challenge on a HC for this Nadal to deal with...a Nadal who has diminished footstep. The doubt could cause Federer to either press too much, or become unsure himself and play it safe, allowing Nadal to wrestle away control.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Back to the thread topic, I guess Nadal did get his revenge, but not playing Federer, and giving Federer the pleasure of beating him five straight times in the season. Payback for the clay. :D
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
I am not really in the mood for sensible posts today, but just for you, I make the exception. :)

Tennis expert? hardly. :D
Bodybuilding, nutrition expert, and experienced in actual real life legit world class competition... absolutely. ;)

Federer openly stated that not having to play Nadal for such a long period of time was one of the greatest weapons he brought onto the court. If you look at physiological blows that Federer has had suffered in key matches, they were often very quickly followed up by a very important match. Rome 2006 surely must have played on Federer's mind at RG 06, and we all know as he openly admitted that the RG 08 loss was a huge part in why Federer dropped the first two sets at W08 and played inside of his shell until Nadal started to choke...and that of course led to that fifth set AO 2009 complete and utter loss of form, and concentration. It was evident to me at least that when it came down to the crunch, Federer just didn't believe he would win.

Now, fast forward to AO 2017, they say time heals all wounds, well, it was never more evident than that fifth set, one of the greatest moments in tennis history. Federer just played more freely, and wasn't afraid of the outcome, if he was to lose, it would be on his own terms, in other words, if he gets beat, it is is because the better man beat him, not because he gave a helping hand. For Nadal, playing Federer on clay would be to put that doubt back in Fed's mind, because a full free flowing Roger who is 100% sure in his shots is simply a titanic challenge on a HC for this Nadal to deal with...a Nadal who has diminished footstep. The doubt could cause Federer to either press too much, or become unsure himself and play it safe, allowing Nadal to wrestle away control.

Thank you for that very sensible post and to everyone else who responded. I was surprised that Nadal was effectively admitting that he needed the psychological boost of clay victories and thought I must be missing something. I wonder if Nadal himself hasn't quite realised that logically that's what his remarks imply? I often get frustrated that tennis journalists don't seem to ask good follow-up questions - both Fed and Nadal seem often to slip in such interesting things in interviews and no journalist ever says "Logically that implies such a thing, is that what you actually mean?"
 

Tennease

Legend
Exactly. Slams are represented across surfaces. So are Masters. The WTF is not.

Let's change clay season to a hard court indoor season. Change indoor season & WTF to blue clay.

The are 4 Slams.
The is only 1 WTF, not 4.

WTF on indoor hard court (indoor carpet/wood even better) makes sense, to complete the variety of the surfaces and to test the all court skills of the top players. If you can't win the biggest indoor hard court event that only means you are not a complete package.
 
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Comb Over Champion

Hall of Fame
Let's change clay season to a hard court indoor season. Change indoor season & WTF to blue clay.

The are 4 Slams.
The is only 1 WTF, not 4.

WTF on indoor hard court (indoor carpet/wood even better) makes sense, to complete the variety of the surfaces and to test the all court skills of the top players. If you can't win the biggest indoor hard court event that only means you are not a complete package.
Hardcourt is already overrepresented, and Nadal is right to point out that the WTF, due to its naturem should represent all surfaces. It is a prize to the players who amassed the most points on all surfaces, so why only play it on hardcourt?
 

fedtennisphan

Hall of Fame
His remarks were no doubt self-serving, but at the same time, removing bias they make sense. The WTF is about the best players in the world having one last round-robin winner-takes all event, and if it made sense for anything to rotate and not necessarily favor anyone, it's the WTF.

Yes, the WTF is about the best players and Nadal should be able to win it on indoor HC if he’s one of those best players. The rotate surface idea is a cop out because of the resentment towards Federer for having more titles and everything is about Nadal trying to make sure name is mentioned in the same breathe as Federer.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Yes, the WTF is about the best players and Nadal should be able to win it on indoor HC if he’s one of those best players. The rotate surface idea is a cop out because of the resentment towards Federer for having more titles and everything is about Nadal trying to make sure name is mentioned in the same breathe as Federer.

Nadal has been in finals and had his chances, win or not, it's really not that serious or disastrous.
 

Tennease

Legend
Tennis is a tradition. History shows WTF finals have been held on relatively fast courts and mostly indoor. It is only fair that it should always be held on fast courts. Past champions worked their bütt off to win the title on fast courts. Why would we want it changed to slow clay court just to cater selfish future players? If Björn Borg could win it on carpet, why shouldn't current generation be able to win it on carpet too?

WTF is the chance for top players to show that they are the best, not to show that they have excuses.

atpfinalsvenue.png
 
D

Deleted member 512391

Guest
Frances Farmer will have her revenge on Seattle.
 

smash hit

Professional
Sensational, attention grabbing headlines yet again. I can't see any quotes in that piece where Nadal says he wants to get revenge. In fact when asked about getting revenge he usually says something like,

Q. The 2014 Australian Open final was an important moment for Wawrinka. Do you think this could be a revenge for you?
RAFAEL NADAL: Revenge is not part of my vocab. I don't think it would be the right thing to do to see it as a revenge. In my mind, each match is different. Every single time I play a match, I consider the match to be important. The best player will win.
 
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