Nadal v Agassi - The AO USO question

[Hitman]

Nadal

4-1 - USO
2-4 - AO


Agassi

4-0 - AO
2-4 - USO


Who was better of the two at their most successful HC slam, but more importantly, who was better of the two at their worst HC slam, considering them both having the same results of 2-4 in slam finals played?

I'm going with Agassi for both. He was better at AO than Nadal was at USO, and he was better at USO than Nadal was at AO.

 

[Razer]

Agassi > Nadal on Hard Courts
Nadal > Agassi on Natural Courts

 

[MichaelNadal]

Ill say Agassi to please haters and bc I really don’t give af

 

[The Blond Blur]

 

[Kralingen]

Personally I’m going to side with my boy Andre, but I’m not going to act like there’s an obvious answer to this question, at least prime for prime.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Agassi

He has 90+ % winning rate at Australian Open. Won 4 out of just 9 appearances. Just should have played more, MORE MORE
Weak draws in AO for Agassi counterbalances weak draws for Nadal in USopen.

In Masters Agassi is 1, 6, 3, 3,1, 2 on HC while Nadal is 3, 0, 5, 1, 1, 0

 

[Third Serve]

It’s definitely Agassi but the fact that this is worthy of a debate is a credit to Nadal’s overall hard court resume. Even outside the clay stuff he almost approaches Agassi on hard courts which is no mean feat.

 

[alexio]

andre is better on hc at slams, iirc we had somewhere here a similar thread

 

[metsman]

It's a fair question whether Agassi's base ballstriking advantage on HC is enough to beat Nadal, or whether Nadal's superior athleticism and generally more dogged big match play will wipe that advantage away. Agassi could get out-alphad by just flat out superior athletes (Safin, Federer, Sampras), but all of those guys had superior weaponry too. If anything it speaks to how good Agassi's baseline fundamentals and consistency are that those guys just didn't run him over every time given the vast raw advantages they had. Against someone more athletic, but without the weaponry, would have been an interesting matchup.

Obviously Agassi's pure results on HC are much better than Nadal's regardless of the inflation.

 

[BenBen]

Would be interesting to see an older Nadal flatten his shots on hard courts and move his opponent side to side like Agassi, stationary around the center of the baseline.

 

[SonicNirvana]

The question is, is Sampras as hard to play as Djokovic is on hard

 

[Neptune]

Occurrences of facing top5 in SF (where heavyweights encounter the top 5)
Agassi 10, Rafa 3

 

[Razer]

The question is, is Sampras as hard to play as Djokovic is on hard

Sampras is definitely much harder to beat in New York than Novak or almost anyone Nadal has played.
In Australian conditions Agassi himself is close to Novak as player.

So Nadal's opponents are not in picture here. Nadal has a 50% win record in Masters tournaments on HCs while Agassi has a 61.4% win record vs Top 10. Even in Slams Agassi has 60% win record vs Top 10 while Nadal has 50% only. Agassi is the same guy who in old age did well to stretch Peak Federer to 5 sets, Agassi is the real deal on Hard Courts, despite Nadal's athletic advantage over Agassi it is Andre who is a much more solid player technically.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Occurrences of facing top5 in SF (where heavyweights encounter the top 5)
Agassi 10, Rafa 3

Wow

Wow

This explains a lot

 

[nolefam_2024]

Wow

Wow

This explains a lot

At least on grass he has good opposition in Wimbledon semis. But USOpen WOW. It explains a lot.
So Nole would have to die out there playing Roger Stan and Rafa would play Gasquet and Youzhney. Talk about LUCK of the draw.

 

[Kralingen]

Would be interesting to see an older Nadal flatten his shots on hard courts and move his opponent side to side like Agassi, stationary around the center of the baseline.

 

[Kralingen]

Btw, Agassi faced tougher competition at HC Slams than Nadal. Frankly, it’s not that close either. I have proof if anyone wants to argue.

 

[alexio]

 

[Milanez82]

Would be interesting to see an older Nadal flatten his shots on hard courts and move his opponent side to side like Agassi, stationary around the center of the baseline.

Then it wouldn't be Nadal playing

 

[Milanez82]

Occurrences of facing top5 in SF (where heavyweights encounter the top 5)
Agassi 10, Rafa 3

What about top 4

 

[The Sinner]

Going by their best showing:

Agassi AO 1995 > Nadal AO 2009
Agassi USO 1994 > Nadal USO 2010

Answer: Agassi, but by slim margins.

 

[Milanez82]

Going by their best showing:

Agassi AO 1995 > Nadal AO 2009
Agassi USO 1994 > Nadal USO 2010

Answer: Agassi, but by slim margins.

Pete had his internal struggles and wasn't exactly at his best at AO95(and should have lost earlier) and Verdasco and Federer showed higher level then anything Agassi faced there at AO95 who pretty much had a cakewalk draw to the finals.

AO12 Rafa showed some tremendous tennis and faced some absurd opponents.

 

[jl809]

Agassi was better than all of the Big 3 at the USO, let alone just Ned. Maybe 10dal had a higher peak than Agassi at the USO (likewise 09dal at the AO) but for level of play across their careers as a whole there is no comparison, Agassi is clear by a mile of Rafl at the HC slams

 

[Turning Pro]

Nadal is 5-4 against the top 2 Hardcourt goats at the AO and Us open who boast a combined record of 25 hard court slams.

Now twitter that.

 

[Razer]

Nadal is 5-4 against the top 2 Hardcourt goats at the AO and Us open who boast a combined record of 25 hard court slams.

Now twitter that.

And yet he has only 6 HC Slams (should be 5) compared to those guys with 25 HC Slams. Why is that ?

 

[Turning Pro]

And yet he has only 6 HC Slams (should be 5) compared to those guys with 25 HC Slams. Why is that ?

Not his favourite slam. Look he has 6 HC Slams, Djoker and Fed has 4 clay slams between them.....Nadal has a favourable clay h2h too at his fav slam surface. 14-2.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Not his favourite slam. Look he has 6 HC Slams, Djoker and Fed has 4 clay slams between them.....Nadal has a favourable clay h2h too at his fav slam surface. 14-2.

Hohoho

Not his favorite at 3 slams or what.

 

[Neptune]

Not his favourite slam. Look he has 6 HC Slams, Djoker and Fed has 4 clay slams between them.....Nadal has a favourable clay h2h too at his fav slam surface. 14-2.

Rafa got 6 with the draw rigged in his favor; it should be less than 3 without rigging, and 0-2 if rigged against. A glimpse of the tip of the iceberg

 

[nolefam_2024]

Rafa got 6 with the draw rigged in his favor; it should be less than 3 without rigging, and 0-2 if rigged against. A glimpse of the tip of the iceberg

Crazy,
too damn lucky.
The thing is everyone KNEW Nadal had easy draws. Its just he MAKES things so hard for himself. Like the match vs Verdasco. Its his inability to dominate on HC that drags him in long matches and then his fans keep calling his dragged out matches epic.

 

[Neptune]

Crazy,
too damn lucky.
The thing is everyone KNEW Nadal had easy draws. Its just he MAKES things so hard for himself. Like the match vs Verdasco. Its his inability to dominate on HC that drags him in long matches and then his fans keep calling his dragged out matches epic.

Rafa's overall performance against top10 on hardcourt is only 50%, and slightly less than 50% in bo5. This explains why, by the end of 2007, despite holding the #2 ranking for over 125 consecutive weeks, Rafa still couldn't reach the semifinals in a hardcourt Slam.

 

[Enceladus]

Agassi was able to defend his title at a HC major, specifically at AO 2001, Nadal never, so Andre has the advantage in this comparison.

 

[Biotic]

And yet he has only 6 HC Slams (should be 5) compared to those guys with 25 HC Slams. Why is that ?

Even those 5 slams were won via picking and choosing his battles in a way unprecedented in tennis history. People drool over his big finals conversion success, but make no mistake, such strike rate, in it's essence, is that of a vulture.

 

[Razer]

Even those 5 slams were won via picking and choosing his battles in a way unprecedented in tennis history. People drool over his big finals conversion success, but make no mistake, such strike rate, in it's essence, is that of a vulture.

Picking and choosing fights is not a bad thing. His USP has always been clay & his argument is that HCs are hard on his foot, some deformity or so he has there since birth I guess....

 

[Sport]

Nadal is a vastly superior hard court player than Agassi.

Nadal had better movement, better forehand, better versatility, better drop shots, substantially better peak level.

Agassi had a better return rate and better backhand, but a subpar movement compared to Nadal.

Nadal won 3 out of his 6 Slams on hard (50%) facing either Federer (AO 2009) or Djokovic (USO 2010, USO 2013).

Agassi only won 2 out of his 6 Slams on hard (33%) facing Sampras. And those victories where against Sampras at the AO.

It is a well-known fact that both Federer and Djokovic are undoubtedly superior hard court players than Sampras. Both Federer at the AO and Djokovic at the USO are much better than Sampras at the AO. Ergo Nadal faced tougher competition.

Agassi won 4 out of his 6 Slam finals on hard (67%) against players that were NEVER #1: Schüttler, Todd Martin, Clément and Stich.

Nadal won only 1 out of his 6 Slam finals on hard (17%) against players that were never #1: Kevin Anderson.

Now, Federer and Djokovic fans have joined forces to hate on Nadal on this thread.

The agenda is clear: Federer fans wanna hype Agassi because otherwise it would be too embarrassing to admit that the mytical and hypothetically undestructible peak Federer struggled to beat ancient mommy Agassi with no mobility and a genetic back problem, the degenrative disc disease called spondylolisthesis.

On the other side of the agenda we have Novak fans. They love to diminish whatever they feel as a threat to Novak's greatness. As Nadal is the second greatest of all time, they try to diminish Nadal to further separate him from Novak.

They're both being 0% objective here due to the aforementioned reasons. They'll make excuses to justify Nadal leading the H2H over Federer at the AO and Novak at the USO. But all those excuses will be lost in time like tears in rain. Posterity will remember that Nadal is simply a better hard court player than Agassi, and was able to win as many Slams on hard as Agassi despite playing in the same era as the 2 best hard court players ever and thus facing tougher opposition than Agassi.

Here older Agassi was facing teenager underdeveloped "Hardal."

Agassi was closer to his prime than Nadal on hard courts here in Toronto 2005. Agassi just reached the US Open final a few weeks after this match, while Nadal didn't reach his first ever Slam final on hard till a 3 and a half years later in 2009. Still, Nadal convincingly beat Agassi. Say no more.

 

[StrongRule]

Occurrences of facing top5 in SF (where heavyweights encounter the top 5)
Agassi 10, Rafa 3

A Djokovic fan complaining about someone having weak competition. The irony.

 

[Neptune]

A Djokovic fan complaining about someone having weak competition. The irony.

Knowledgeable and unbiased fans can discern what constitutes genuine weak competition, and identify players consistently aided by slam draw rigging or political influence when draw rigging alone is insufficient.

 

[Jonesy]

They both were kings of the HCs of the era they played. Agassi on fast HCs and Nadal on medium/slow HCs. If Agassi was from Rafa's generation he would adapt to a more spinny game and vice-versa.