Nadal wasn't at his best

[Pwned]

What player are you watching?

Nadal is used to FORCE UE out of his opponents, coupled with the odd winner here and there. True, he never was and never will be an offense machine but I doubt Nadal from 2010 was camping out three meters behind ALL THE TIME and barely hitting beyond the service line. You can't force a UE from your opponent when playing well behind the baseline, perhaps only on clay.

All the UE tells me is that Nadal took zero risks. If Nadal had 4 winners and 0 UE would his stats have looked good? Nadal is not a big risk taker as he is percentage player but NO RISKS? That's just bad.

You are correct about the BH and that is the most obvious aspect but there are other pieces missing as well. His court positioning sucks unless you are looking for 100% defense(I doubt that even Fed could hit winners with his flatter fh from 3 meters behind the baseline, let alone RAfa with his spin shots) and his offense seems to be hit at Fed, preferably BH. Barely tried to move Fed around and in a familiar theme this season, his forehand seemed to go for consistency(as in maybe my 20th forehand to opponent will break him down) instead of angles to try to pull Fed off court.

Serve also sucks massively IMO when compared to his end 2010 level.

Gamewise Rafa regressed big time, to 2006-2007 levels, just a forehand, no serve, no BH and worse, with less cojones overall. As I said in another thread Nadal is slowly but surely transforming into Moya, Forehand Man, only difference being that Moya actually went for shots from time to time.

Nadal's plan seems to be, after USO, to sit way behind the baseline and try to send balls deep(but usually fail) and hope to god the other guy misses. Almost no offense in this game yet he somehow expects to win titles.

Nadal's fh still draws unforced errors off the majority of opponents. He made how many finals this year?

Nadal never takes risks. Never has. The moment he hits out on a ball and it goes out he recedes into defensive mode. It works 99.9% of the time.

 

[zagor]

Baby Moya.

That's not a bad thing at all, baby Moya reached AO final and won FO in a amazingly strong 90s era.

 

[namelessone]

Nadal's fh still draws unforced errors off the majority of opponents. He made how many finals this year?

Nadal never takes risks. Never has. The moment he hits out on a ball and it goes out he recedes into defensive mode. It works 99.9% of the time.

If this were true, he would never make a winner because you need to have some initiative and take a risk to make any winner. You have to step in and accelerate to get the ball past your opponent.

Watch Nadal-Murray at WTF(to give just ONE example) and tell me Nadal can't take the initiative when he has to make an impact in a point(cause he can't rally forever).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pviz8oyV52w

And this is Nadal on a court that doesn't favor him and in a really really bad time for his career.

 

[SLD76]

]It could be Borgs clay court mark and Federers slam mark were the two biggest motivations. Now that he has equalled Borgs FO mark (and surpassed it in most other ways) and is regarded as the clay court GOAT by nearly everyone he has accomplished one his two objectives. The other (Federers slam record) he might feel is no longer in reach after a dissapointing year, some decline already starting, and finding a new nemisis opponent.[/B] So factor it all together and indeed he might not be that motivated anymore. His style of game takes alot of effort physically and mentally. If he has already achieved as much as he think he is going to as far as important landmarks, establishing himself as the consensus clay court GOAT, and having won all the major titles atleast once (except the WTF), he might not have his heart fully in it anymore.

I was thinking this very thing to myself the other day. Nadal would maybe hang in and grind if he had a shot to break 16 slams, but now with Djoker on the rise...mayhaps he has lost some will. And time is not his friend, which Im sure he knows.

Everyone brings up 2009, but in 2009 he was 2 years younger.

 

[zagor]

I was thinking this very thing to myself the other day. Nadal would maybe hang in and grind if he had a shot to break 16 slams, but now with Djoker on the rise...mayhaps he has lost some will. And time is not his friend, which Im sure he knows.

Everyone brings up 2009, but in 2009 he was 2 years younger.

Which means he's more mature,wiser and experienced now. It can only work to his advantage.

 

[SLD76]

Which means he's more mature,wiser and experienced now. It can only work to his advantage.

sure, I wonder how much wisdom is stored on those legs and knees.

 

[namelessone]

sure, I wonder how much wisdom is stored on those legs and knees.

Torn up tendons are certified sources of knowledge.

 

[Pwned]

If this were true, he would never make a winner because you need to have some initiative and take a risk to make any winner. You have to step in and accelerate to get the ball past your opponent.

Watch Nadal-Murray at WTF(to give just ONE example) and tell me Nadal can't take the initiative when he has to make an impact in a point(cause he can't rally forever).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pviz8oyV52w

And this is Nadal on a court that doesn't favor him and in a really really bad time for his career.

Against Seppi! Nadal hits heavy top spin then gets a short ball and hits more heavy topspin for the winner. He also starts out standing just as far back as he always has. His topspin against such a weak opponent earns him a short ball for an easy put away. I don't see many flat forehands in that video, a couple inside out. His winners are usually with high margin on short balls and a lot of angle after he has worked the opponent out of position.

It's not risky. He may be taking the initiative against some opponents. But he is doing it with high percentage topspin forehands that most opponents don't handle well.

 

[namelessone]

Against Seppi! Nadal hits heavy top spin then gets a short ball and hits more heavy topspin for the winner. He also starts out standing just as far back as he always has. His topspin against such a weak opponent earns him a short ball for an easy put away. I don't see many flat forehands in that video, a couple inside out. His winners are usually with high margin on short balls and a lot of angle after he has worked the opponent out of position.

It's not risky. He may be taking the initiative against some opponents. But he is doing it with high percentage topspin forehands that most opponents don't handle well.

It's safe when he doesn't seek the angle. Sure, he has a high net clearance but when Nadal tries to go for angles(either I/O or short angled one to opponent's BH, his ball flies out many times. It's pretty hard to be precise with megaspin(when you are essentially whacking at the ball). And as you may notice, Nadal does get depth from time to time in that vid, besides the inherent short balls.

Nadal is about calculated risk, knowing when to push the envelope in a point.Otherwise, he would make NO WINNERS, only points from UE. I mean Nadal ended up with something like 60 winners in the Delpo match(4 sets) in WB and almost 50 in the 2010 USO final against Djoko(4 sets). How the hell did he make those if he didn't risk at all? And Delpo and Djoko are no Sepsi.

 

[Sentinel]

Torn up tendons are certified sources of knowledge.

hahaha ! I didn't know you could post one-liners

I think Tio Toni's waiting for Joker to go back to v1.0.

 

[Sentinel]

I agree. It is hard for Nadal to look good when somebody who he beat multiple times is doing the exact tactic he used to pick on over and over again, not knowing what else to do because he has a relatively limited skill set.

And a relatively clueless coach/uncle.

 

[Sentinel]

Hey Senti, Sunny Deol is sitting around somewhere in London and wants to know if your friend Maria Rafael is still around.

Yes, when Sunny gets over his hangover, tell him that Maria Rafael faces Yannick Noah today. If Maria doesn't win, its back to fishing on Mallorca with her aunt Joni.

I've got to tell Maria to stay off fish, they've got poisoning from that F'shima nuclear plant.

 

[celoft]

Fed owns Nads indoors!

4-0

 

[namelessone]

hahaha ! I didn't know you could post one-liners

I think Tio Toni's waiting for Joker to go back to v1.0.

Is Novak rolling back the driver?

 

[celoft]

It could be Borgs clay court mark and Federers slam mark were the two biggest motivations. Now that he has equalled Borgs FO mark (and surpassed it in most other ways) and is regarded as the clay court GOAT by nearly everyone he has accomplished one his two objectives. The other (Federers slam record) he might feel is no longer in reach after a dissapointing year, some decline already starting, and finding a new nemisis opponent. So factor it all together and indeed he might not be that motivated anymore. His style of game takes alot of effort physically and mentally. If he has already achieved as much as he think he is going to as far as important landmarks, establishing himself as the consensus clay court GOAT, and having won all the major titles atleast once (except the WTF), he might not have his heart fully in it anymore.

Yup.

If Nadal wins another slam it will be because a run of luck, nothing else.

 

[monfed]

According to TW experts, Nadal is never at his best when he loses. *YAWN* What else is new?

 

[Crazy man]

1) Roddick, Del Potro, and Soderling all utilize the SAME gameplan that everyone else uses to beat Nadal. Heavy forehand to the backhand of Nadal, which results in a predictable ball that goes crosscourt or towards the middle of the court. At worse Nadal moonballs it to your backhand, meaning easy for you to walk around and crush it.


2) Nadal is a one trick pony, whose trick is really good and really hard to beat. Djokovic is the only guy who can CONSISTENTLY do it, but people are figuring out how to do it more consistently. It is no coincidence that even lower ranked players were finding ways to push Nadal hard this year.


3) Nadal lucked out that Federer beat Djokovic. Had Nadal met Djokovic at the FO final, it would have been demolition derby since Nadal has literally 0 ways to hurt Djokovic on clay, as oppose to a HC or grass where he can at least utilize the speed of the court to hurt Djokovic with his forehand.

Ok, well, there have at least been times in my opinion when these guys have just gone to the forehand to Nadal to A) Stop hm using it as an aggressive weapon and B) To draw the short ball.




Lower ranked players gave Nadal problems pretty much every year bar last year, and even then guys like Haase and someone named Petzschner gave Nadal trouble at Wimbledon. Who?





By the way, I don't respect Nadal on the court or even off the court, from what I have seen. Don't be mad, but lots of great players have won slams because of a tough matchup(s) losing before they got to play. I'm a Safin and Roddick fan, it would seem a little hypocritical of me to bash other players for escaping tough matchups/getting lucky on occassion.

 

[tlm]

But that's the thing, if they ( TW Nadal fans) showed a bit more restraint in those days and didn't kick Fed when he was down so much then maybe some of us would have went a bit easier on them as well. Point is, nothing lasts forever and much can change in tennis in just one year.

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

 

[monfed]

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

YAWN. Cry me a river,hater.

 

[Sentinel]

I think in all fairness the Roger Rafa match should be replayed when Rafa is at his best.
Let's keep replaying it till Rafa wins. Then we'll call it a fair game, okay ?

 

[tlm]

YAWN. Cry me a river,hater.

I know the truth is not what you like to deal with, so go back to your la la land and shut up.

 

[rommil]

Rafa has a hard time in London. He can't tell if the signals he is getting is from Uncle Toni or the guy selling popcorn.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

I just checked the posts. Rafa fans were much worse than Fed fans.

 

[Param]

It was clear watching the match that Federer was playing in stratosphere while Nadal was playing sub par. This was evident from how the match ended - come on, Nadal could have done better on that back hand moonball which landed half a mile from sidelines. Looks like his shoulder is in trouble.

 

[tlm]

I just checked the posts. Rafa fans were much worse than Fed fans.

Sure you did you subjectively picked out what you wanted so you can hide from the truth. But can't expect much more from you, lies lies and more lies.

 

[tlm]

Rafa has not played very well all season, but that is his ability this season. So for this year it is his level of play, then when you add that he is indoors which is his worst setting there is no surprise.

 

[zagor]

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

You seem angry.

 

[Sid_Vicious]

You seem angry.

Why should he not be angry? He loves to pucker up and kiss Rafa's behind. He realizes that when the time comes to "face reality again", Djokovic will be kicking Rafa's ass and he will have to start going to weekly group therapy sessions.

 

[zagor]

Why should he not be angry? He loves to pucker up and kiss Rafa's behind. He realizes that when the time comes to "face reality again", Djokovic will be kicking Rafa's ass and he will have to start going to weekly group therapy sessions.

I guess.

It's kinda funny that he goes calling Fed fans frontrunner fans in the same post in which he implies that Fed is useless outside indoors these days and has no chance whatsoever to win more slams, a bit contradictory.

 

[DarthMaul]

Hmm. I am so glad Fed is playing well again! And I really enjoy the fact that Fed finally decided to give Nadal a taste of his own medicine.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Sure you did you subjectively picked out what you wanted so you can hide from the truth. But can't expect much more from you, lies lies and more lies.

So what's the point in telling someone to check the posts if you are going to believe what they come up with no matter what.

 

[hawk eye]

At his best or not, Nadal is definitely closing the gap with Djokovic.
Nadal lost to Federer, winner of 16 slams 6-3 6-0.
Djokovic lost to Ferrer, winner of zero slams 6-3 6-1.

16 slams don't equal one game, and two neither.
All in all, I believe Nadal stepped it up this week.

It that isn't a sign of Nadal being on the right track to nr 1..

 

[rommil]

He had a lot of debilitating rest coming in to this tournament, an infliction that the other players didnt have to deal with. Yet Rafa fought through it with his heart and soul, the epitome of a warrior spirit.

 

[gplracer]

Interesting posts and opinions in this thread....... Here is mine: Federer played better. I am a huge Federer fan but I must admit that as he has gotten older he has more days that he does not look as sharp. In the match against Nadal he was on. Nadal did not look on. If they are both on then it is a close match. I will say that Nadal has not looked as good this year. I think the pressure from other players like the Joker has been tough for him. The thing is when you are young you think you are invincible and you will always be at the top. As you get older you realize this is not true. You start to choke more and you start to worry more about not winning or making the finals. It happens to all players. Both Federer and Nadal are great champions.

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Does the OP mean that Nadal is not so professional anymore, by not preparing at his best?
Too much GF play?

 

[decades]

Toni was clearly not at his best. And that was the difference.

 

[TheTruth]

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

Your whole post should be bolded. So full of truth.

 

[pound cat]

Nadal has never done well at WTF, No he is not sick, injured, depressed, tired, etc. He just lost against someone who played better, Simple. End of story. On to DC.

 

[cc0509]

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

You know the saying be careful what you wish for? Federer has been inconsistent for the past few years no doubt but guess what he is 30 years old and has the slam record of 16. It does not matter what happens with him in the future. Whatever he manages to win is gravy. Contrast that to Nadal who is 25 years old and has looked absolutely terrible in the past few months. What is his excuse at age 25? It is possible that your idol is beginning his decline and he may or may not be what he once was moving forward, so again be careful what you wish for. :wink:

 

[TMF]

Your whole post should be bolded. So full of truth.

That is hilarious rafa fans showing more restraint huh. The fed fans are so much worse at this it is outrageous that you can try to use this analogy. Some of us would have been a bit easier on them you say, ya right you are so full of bs it is coming out of your ears.

Anyone that wants to look back on this site and check the posts after fed wins over rafa or when it is the other way around can do so easily. There is no comparison in the hatred shown by the fed lovers. Last year being their hero can not win a major anymore all they had left was to gloat over jokers success over rafa.

Like i said just go back and check the posts it is all there to prove that you are so far removed from reality, but that is just the norm. This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.

Then all the frontrunner fans come out and start fantasizing on how he is going to dominate the tour again. Enjoy it while you can because once the real season starts you will have to face reality again.

Just to show how his fans can be so bitter after a loss. Such a loser !

 

[Murrayfan31]

Toni was clearly not at his best. And that was the difference.

Yep Nadal can't see Toni in that dark crowd. That was the difference.

 

[namelessone]

Yep Nadal can't see Toni in that dark crowd. That was the difference.

Same darkness last year and he made finals.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Your whole post should be bolded. So full of truth.

So why didn't you bold it?

 

[Sentinel]

This is the same thing every season now, fed can't win at the majors anymore but come the indoor serving contest time he shines again.
.

Its amazing how you Nadal fans can call it a serve-fest whenever Federer wins a match. From what i remember Tsonga had more aces than him in their last match. I don;t remember the ace count between him and Fish the other day but must have been quite close. And not too many either.

Perhaps you didn't see how many times Fish broke Roger's serve and had breakpoints on him. He was spanking Roger's serve.

You are beginning to sound like Veronique and Babbit.

 

[Ico]

I know the truth is not what you like to deal with, so go back to your la la land and shut up.

Priceless.

 

[namelessone]

Its amazing how you Nadal fans can call it a serve-fest whenever Federer wins a match. From what i remember Tsonga had more aces than him in their last match. I don;t remember the ace count between him and Fish the other day but must have been quite close. And not too many either.

Perhaps you didn't see how many times Fish broke Roger's serve and had breakpoints on him. He was spanking Roger's serve.

You are beginning to sound like Veronique and Babbit.

It's even more funny calling it a servefest when this court is really slow that the conditions don't favor frequent ace-ing.

 

[monfed]

I know the truth is not what you like to deal with, so go back to your la la land and shut up.

You mean Mirka land, hater. Get it right.

Easy to shut up when you're looking at Mirka.

 

[TopspinDr82]

Silly Talk

Now everyone just needs to relax this whole Fed-Nadal fan rivalry is ridiculous. The rivalry between the players isn't this crazy. The fact is that both players are great, each has there specialty (Fed indoor hard)(Nadal Clay) and if they happen to play each other on there favored serface it can get ugly for the one that may not be at thier best. What all fans shold look at is the FACT that Fed is 30, two children and tennis has become a hobby for him. The thing that makes Fed a great tennis player is that not even taking it as serious as he once did he can still put it on the likes of the young guys like Nadal, Djok. Nadal has 5 years to build an his resume and he is not that far from where Fed went on his big run at the majors. Also the same argument that Fed can't win a Gold medal seemingly the only thing he has not won these days. But the reality of he whole thing is for a long time both players have given fans so much great tennis to enjoy.

 

[Towser83]

Now everyone just needs to relax this whole Fed-Nadal fan rivalry is ridiculous. The rivalry between the players isn't this crazy. The fact is that both players are great, each has there specialty (Fed indoor hard)(Nadal Clay) and if they happen to play each other on there favored serface it can get ugly for the one that may not be at thier best. What all fans shold look at is the FACT that Fed is 30, two children and tennis has become a hobby for him. The thing that makes Fed a great tennis player is that not even taking it as serious as he once did he can still put it on the likes of the young guys like Nadal, Djok. Nadal has 5 years to build an his resume and he is not that far from where Fed went on his big run at the majors. Also the same argument that Fed can't win a Gold medal seemingly the only thing he has not won these days. But the reality of he whole thing is for a long time both players have given fans so much great tennis to enjoy.

Good first post. But talking sense here is frowned upon by most :lol:

I think tennis is more than a hobby to Federer though, but yes it's not as big in his life as it once was.

 

[tlm]

Just to show how his fans can be so bitter after a loss. Such a loser !

Just stating the facts but you fed lovers don't comprehend what facts are so it is hard for you to understand. You are the one that sounds bitter i am just stating the truth but you fed lovers get so hyped up over the year end serving contest that you start actually dreaming you are back in 2004. But it won't be long and you will have wake up.