Need advice on my groundstrokes [video]

MasturB

Legend
My first video since May.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUi8LOURyVI

I know I have a problem "hugging" on my forehand. I'm still working on it. Trying to open up better with my left arm, using more of my torso on my forehand. Right now I feel i'm using alot more arm than I should be in my forehand, and I'm trying to improve that with the mid-section rotation (torso/hips). Another thing i'm working on is trying to get rid of the double bend in my forehand. I've been experimenting with semi-western, but i'm going to give extreme eastern a try later this week.

Oh yeah, Don't mind my lazy footwork in some of the video. We'd been playing for 4 hours and my feet were still sore from football from the day before. I'm still trying to cut off balls at certain angles so I don't have to hit it that high, but i'll deal with that soon enough.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 

Steven87

Semi-Pro
Alright, first of all, NEVER take your shirt off during tennis again. That was just gross and unnecessary. Secondly, your forehand has way too big of a swing and you aren't fast enough. Your lateness in contact is what it is causing your ball to fly. Try a more compact swing. Your backhand looked pretty inconsistent as well, but that could be because your footwork was an absolute nightmare. Overall, your game (and body) was just a mess. You're trying to be too flashy, when you should focus on substance.
 

MasturB

Legend
Alright, first of all, NEVER take your shirt off during tennis again. That was just gross and unnecessary. Secondly, your forehand has way too big of a swing and you aren't fast enough. Your lateness in contact is what it is causing your ball to fly. Try a more compact swing. Your backhand looked pretty inconsistent as well, but that could be because your footwork was an absolute nightmare. Overall, your game (and body) was just a mess. You're trying to be too flashy, when you should focus on substance.

I normally play like that when it's 40 degree weather and the other 10 courts in the facility are empty. After you've been playing for 3-4 hours... it gets pretty hot out there despite what the thermostat reads.

Your post is probably the most useless post ever on this forum. I didn't say I was trying to be a superstar. I didn't claim to have some god almighty forehand. So the flashy comment was useless at best. I was asking for valid critique, and all you did was turn your crappy post into a rant.
 
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hector

Rookie
Alright, first of all, NEVER take your shirt off during tennis again. That was just gross and unnecessary. Secondly, your forehand has way too big of a swing and you aren't fast enough. Your lateness in contact is what it is causing your ball to fly. Try a more compact swing. Your backhand looked pretty inconsistent as well, but that could be because your footwork was an absolute nightmare. Overall, your game (and body) was just a mess. You're trying to be too flashy, when you should focus on substance.

I watched the video and had no idea how to respond. This post said it all.
 

ericwong

Rookie
All I can say is to compact your FH swing and if possible, work on the footwork to give you a solid stronghold upon hitting the ball.
 

sapient007

Semi-Pro
Steven87 actually has some good pointers about your game.. however the only thing you're able to read was his slight insult.
 

FH2FH

Professional
yeah, your racquet goes took far back on your FH. i was doing exactly the same thing a month ago. try to let the buttcap go no further than pointing at the net (now, it's pointing at the right fence). that helped me a lot with returns and consistency in general. oh, and forget about the grip and double bend. looks good to me..??

by taking a shorter swing, you'll be able to take balls on the rise more often and can hit moving into the court, instead of what you're doing now ...which is moving back, letting the ball drop, and hitting off the back foot. For example, at 1:41/1:42, you could step up into the court and crush that $heet down the line. wouldn't you rather do that?

you have power now because you've got racquet speed, but it's not controlled power and your timing and position can get out of synch easily. work on your footwork too and send a check to me for this lesson. :) you will thank me later!
 

MasturB

Legend
Steven87 actually has some good pointers about your game.. however the only thing you're able to read was his slight insult.

Slight?

His entire post was garbage, minus the compact swing note he managed to squeeze in there.

He tried to take a shot at me any chance he could.

I didn't ask anybody to rate me. I didn't say I was a flashy player with a monsterous forehand. So all of his other comments were unnecessary.

I don't really care about what he said honestly, it's just stupid to come in here talking like a jackass unprovoked.
 

MasturB

Legend
yeah, your racquet goes took far back on your FH. i was doing exactly the same thing a month ago. try to let the buttcap go no further than pointing at the net (now, it's pointing at the right fence). that helped me a lot with returns and consistency in general. oh, and forget about the grip and double bend. looks good to me..??

I've been watching too many Fernando Gonzalez videos lately. His huge swing is still stuck in my head from time to time. Trust me, iv'e been trying to cut down on my backswing.

by taking a shorter swing, you'll be able to take balls on the rise more often and can hit moving into the court, instead of what you're doing now ...which is moving back, letting the ball drop, and hitting off the back foot. For example, at 1:41/1:42, you could step up into the court and crush that $heet down the line. wouldn't you rather do that?

I would. There were several instances in the video where I could have just easily crushed a ball down the line, but I was trying to gain some consistency, just aiming for the center area to keep it in instead of down the lines. I was trying to keep rallies going to gain some rythym instead of ending it purposely. Stepping into the ball is something i'm working on, as it would also help cut down my swing. I'm not rotating my torso and hips enough, but it's something i'm trying to incorporate into my swing. You'll notice there are times when I can just hit with a closed stance and have more control on my swing. But most of the forehands I hit were with an open stance, and as I mentioned before I armed alot of them because a lack of mid-section body movement.


you have power now because you've got racquet speed, but it's not controlled power and your timing and position can get out of synch easily. work on your footwork too and send a check to me for this lesson. :) you will thank me later!

Thanks for the advice.
 
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sharpy

Banned
Slight?

His entire post was garbage, minus the compact swing note he managed to squeeze in there.

He tried to take a shot at me any chance he could.

I didn't ask anybody to rate me. I didn't say I was a flashy player with a monsterous forehand. So all of his other comments were unnecessary.

I don't really care about what he said honestly, it's just stupid to come in here talking like a jackass unprovoked.

yeah the problem really is your forehand... stroke isnt compact, huge loop

backhand takeback too linear... too flat

too passive minded, far behind the baseline, not taking balls on the rise

sluggish footwork, heavy feet

l
 
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rbq4h4

Rookie
that is really impresive to be playin for 4 hours, i can really only do about 1 befroe getting tired. you must be in great shape. what position do you play in football, you look kind of like a linebaker?
 

MasturB

Legend
that is really impresive to be playin for 4 hours, i can really only do about 1 befroe getting tired. you must be in great shape. what position do you play in football, you look kind of like a linebaker?

Heh. I'm only 5'5. I play strong safety. Despite my big frame, I'm pretty fast.

I'm not trying to bulk up though, because i'll lose my flexibility in tennis.
 

rbq4h4

Rookie
wow thats neat. hey i know its not a football board but just learnig the sport why do they call it strong safety? why not just right or left?
 

MasturB

Legend
wow thats neat. hey i know its not a football board but just learnig the sport why do they call it strong safety? why not just right or left?

Strong safety is more of a heavy hitter, and plays closer to the action.

Free safety just wanders in the field and trys to read where the quarterback will throw.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
it gets pretty hot out there despite what the thermostat reads.

You sexy beast you!! :D

General observations:

1) I think you're crossing over for your first step. You want foot closest to ball to take first step.

2) It looks like you're using the left arm to turn the body to set up the unit turn. The way your feet moves away from the ball also suggests this. Instead, you want to use your hips to do this. If you practice swinging without any takeback, you'll get that down.

3) In terms of abbreviating the stroke, just imagine you're holding some very small under your armpit. This will tighten up your backswing and teach you to lead the swing with the shoulder, rather than with the hand.
 

CAM178

Hall of Fame
Why such a huge swing, and huge follow through? Economize your strokes. Just think of a boxer, as they economize all of their movement.
 

herosol

Professional
from what i've seen, you Have a huge backward momentum going right now.
You:

1) Generate most of your spin and pace off your arms
2) Most of your pace also comes from a huge takeback
3) You're core is used, but again the momentum shifts back

Right now all your shots on your forehand land on your back foot.
Really try to move yourself forward and compact your swing.


Backhand, your swing looks good, good timing too.
Problems are

1) I have this problem too, it's hard to change but, you need to have your right foot on the backhand to be pointed at the net, not directly but just a little bit. You have the same problem as me when having the right foot parallel, which is wrong. It causes you to not be able to move forward, since your right knee can't move forward, but only sideways. This also causes problem #2

2) You need to bend your legs a lot more. You end up doing alot of your right to be upright, instead of bent. Again this is caused by not having your right foot pointed to net. Again, not directly pointed, but atleast at a 45 degree angle?

But overall really, you look like you have a consistent and solid game for COMPETING. Really i think you would probably do well competing and playing matches, and if you really are as quick as you say you are, then you must be a pretty good COMPETITOR.

The things we critique on are mere technical issues. Don't have a bad day over these variables, because you can compete and that is what really matters.
 

ubel

Professional
First off, you have way too much clothes on to begin with. You did alright a few seconds into the video by showing us that sexy back, but I think you can do a bit better. HINT: Try a speedo.

Seriously, though, you should work on keeping your upper body more balanced and stable... in MANY of those shots you missed you were moving, off balance (often leaning back, but mostly leaning to the side), or both.. Swinging a racquet accurately and consistently is much easier when the base you're swinging it from isn't also moving. This is similar to the idea of freezing your head just before, during, and after contact with the ball.
 
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MasturB

Legend
Why such a huge swing, and huge follow through? Economize your strokes. Just think of a boxer, as they economize all of their movement.

I've been playing tennis for maybe a little over a year. I've had this problem ever since I began.

This was me in November of last year:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFGdujASnss

and this was me 5 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7yqTfRjhCc

Trust me, i'm really trying to shorten my takeback. I have alot of people that tell me to shorten down my backswing. I just can't seem to execute it right.
 
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MasturB

Legend
from what i've seen, you Have a huge backward momentum going right now.
You:

1) Generate most of your spin and pace off your arms
2) Most of your pace also comes from a huge takeback
3) You're core is used, but again the momentum shifts back

Right now all your shots on your forehand land on your back foot.
Really try to move yourself forward and compact your swing.


Backhand, your swing looks good, good timing too.
Problems are

1) I have this problem too, it's hard to change but, you need to have your right foot on the backhand to be pointed at the net, not directly but just a little bit. You have the same problem as me when having the right foot parallel, which is wrong. It causes you to not be able to move forward, since your right knee can't move forward, but only sideways. This also causes problem #2

I definitely will take that into consideration. I've always been trying to keep my right foot parallel with the baseline. I'll definitely try the 45 degree angle thing next time out.


2) You need to bend your legs a lot more. You end up doing alot of your right to be upright, instead of bent. Again this is caused by not having your right foot pointed to net. Again, not directly pointed, but atleast at a 45 degree angle?


This is problably something that runs through my head all of the time, but I can nevfer seem to get my knees bent. There are times where I HAVE bent my knees and I felt more in control, but for some reason my body seems to be having a hard time bending the knees while reacting. It's something i'm trying to train myself to do.

I'm going back out to hit again Saturday, so i'll brign the camera with me again and hope to get some better footage.
 

MasturB

Legend
First off, you have way too much clothes on to begin with. You did alright a few seconds into the video by showing us that sexy back, but I think you can do a bit better. HINT: Try a speedo.

Seriously, though, you should work on keeping your upper body more balanced and stable... in MANY of those shots you missed you were moving, off balance (often leaning back, but mostly leaning to the side), or both.. Swinging a racquet accurately and consistently is much easier when the base you're swinging it from isn't also moving. This is similar to the idea of freezing your head just before, during, and after contact with the ball.

One of my main problems is bending my knees on low backhands. Instead I lean over and have to scoop it from under me. I'm trying to fix this.

I also am trying to freeze my head (or keep it still while the rest of my body turns)during the swing. I got the idea from the Federer article that's been psoted on here several times.
 
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tricky

Hall of Fame
Trust me, i'm really trying to shorten my takeback.
Yeah, it's really because you're leading your backswing with the hand, which is what most people initially do.

Really, the trick is to concentrate on leading the backswing with just a shoulder turn. To do that, close up the space a little under the armpit (such as imagingin you're holding a tiny coin under your arm) first. Then work on feeling a stretch in the shoulder, and finally in the right pectoral. Initially just practice the takeback portion until you have that "feel" down.

I also am trying to freeze my head (or keep it still while the rest of my body turns)during the swing. I got the idea from the Federer article that's been psoted on here several times.

You actually do a pretty good job hitting the ball properly out in front on your BH. If you remember to step with the foot closer to the ball, you'll help a lot with improving the footwork.
 
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[K]aotic

Semi-Pro
umm on your backswing for your forehand, instead of physically bringing the racket back so much, try to rotate your shoulders instead. this way u can generate more power using ur hips as well.



on the backhand side, when you actually hit the ball, try to follow through up, instead of to the side. you're opening up too early which will mess up your contact point resulting in loss of control.


hope this helps :)
 

sharpy

Banned
You sexy beast you!! :D

General observations:


2) It looks like you're using the left arm to turn the body to set up the unit turn. The way your feet moves away from the ball also suggests this. Instead, you want to use your hips to do this. If you practice swinging without any takeback, you'll get that down.


hmm, what's the purpose of holding the racket with the left hand if it doesnt have purpose in the unit turn bringing the racket back?

what do you mean bring it back by the hips instead? it's way easier and faster i think to do this with the left hand??
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
on the backhand side, when you actually hit the ball, try to follow through up, instead of to the side. you're opening up too early which will mess up your contact point resulting in loss of control.

I think MasturB is intentionally swinging to the side, using a "lateral" BH a la Henin and Gasquet. Suprisingly, he's done a really good job hitting the ball really out in front as you should with that kind of swing.
 

CAM178

Hall of Fame
Trust me, i'm really trying to shorten my takeback. I have alot of people that tell me to shorten down my backswing. I just can't seem to execute it right.

If you were trying to shorten it, you would shorten it. It's the curse of the beginner player: you do what is comfortable. You're not alone there.

Instead of trying to do it, just do it. Just go out on your next practice session, and hit nothing but half strokes. You will find that you are far less tired at the end of the session (half the energy used), you will build up tremendous forearm power, and you will see drastic results in a short period of time.

I think what's happening is that you hear people, but you don't listen to them when they tell you about your stroke flaws. If you want to become good, become a sponge with every bit of advice you hear.

What is going to happen is that you are going to stay at that level, because you will not be able to deal with increased pace and subsequent decreased reaction time.
 

MasturB

Legend
I think MasturB is intentionally swinging to the side, using a "lateral" BH a la Henin and Gasquet. Suprisingly, he's done a really good job hitting the ball really out in front as you should with that kind of swing.

I've seen Fed use a lateral BH several times. Every side angle i have of him, his foot is parallel to the baseline, even when he runs up for backhands in the frontcourt.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
hmm, what's the purpose of holding the racket with the left hand if it doesnt have purpose in the unit turn bringing the racket back?

It improves body sequencing, lets you mirror the backswing according to what you see with your eyes. Above all, it sets up a reference point between your front and back shoulders, and influences the rotation of the hitting arm.

In a FH such as yours and MasturB, you want to make sure that the back shoulder always stays above the front in your takeback. This helps to make sure that your swing is "linear" and that the hitting arm is synced with the rotation of your body. This is the ideal for a stroke ("push") where weight transfer from the legs is key.

If you keep your back shoulder below the level of your front shoulder in the takeback, your swing becomes "rotational" and now the elbow springs away from your body and toward the ball. And this is ideal for a stroke ("pull") where hip and torso rotation figures heavily into the power.

Now, I imagine you've never had an issue with this, because frankly with your mechanics, it would feel REALLY awkward swinging with the back shoulder below the front. But, keeping that left arm is what helps the person set their shoulder reference point. Without it, you don't want you're going to get.

what do you mean bring it back by the hips instead? it's way easier and faster i think to do this with the left hand??

It screws up the body sequencing. If you use your left arm to set up the unit turn (and MOST people do this), it means that now the energy in the arms will drive the body, rather than the body driving the arms. Balance will be wrong, and you'll be arming the stroke.

Using the left arm also encourages the person to use the wrong footwork, that is to have the wrong foot "cross over" for the first step, rather than have the foot closer to the ball make the first step.

The difference in technique is subtle, but huge. You'll not only have a more rhythmic stroke, but the power will go way up.

The easiest way to drill this into your brain is to practice swinging without a takeback. This will FORCE you to use your body to drive the swing.

Finally, it also enables you to practice the "Federer see ball" method that's been discussed here. You keep your head still until you've set up the unit turn with your body. Then, you let the head track the ball into the racquet.

And in fact, MasturB is doing this with his BH. Even though his footwork isn't correct and he's bending over sometimes, he's consistenly able to hit the ball at the correct point-of-contact with a lateral swing. Keeping in mind that a 1H BH and a lateral swing both push the POC out further in front, it's remarkable he hits the ball so cleanly. And the reason is because on the BH side, he is using his body to set up and the unit turn and he's consciously holding his head still until the unit turn has been completed. Then he lets his head track the ball, seeing the ball behind the racquet string, and letting the arm find the correct POC. He instinctively makes pretty good adjustments when hitting the low ball and when the ball bounces high on him.

I've seen Fed use a lateral BH several times.

Federer doesn't open up his body in the way a normal lateral BH usually works. He uses a normal smile pattern, but he also has a lot more natural forearm rotation (due to inverting the racquet at unit turn), and so the body opens up a little more than usual on wide shots. That said, he doesn't intentionally swing across his body. You actually hit the ball more out in front than a normal 1H BHer usually do.
 

HewittSuckz

New User
serioulsy dude dont freakin take your shirt off in these videos...its so unnecessarily gay and redneck. you're welcome.
 
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I

ipodtennispro

Guest
Rotate the hit

My first video since May.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUi8LOURyVI


Any advice would be appreciated.

If you like what you see don't change a thing. Good racket head speed with very little shanks. However, there are some timing and balance issues with your forehand stroke as that is why you arm the ball so much on the forehand side. Your shoulders are completely open on every followthrough where as they should end up linear. I am going to grab this vid and slow motion/split screen it and post it back later if you want. This vid really needs to be slowed down. Do you notice that your core and shoulders don't rotate during the stroke? This vid explains what you could improve on:

http://iws.punahou.edu/user/lcouillard/2007/11/rotate_then_hit.html

PS You got the Fed head move down on the followthrough!

Good luck
 
Quick Runthrough

Your forehand with the big takeback doesnt seem to be getting much pace at all. You'll end up tiring out quickly.

You dont bend enough and your footwork needs improvement.

You hit late and do not have good side to side control

But overall not bad for a year
 

Jonnyf

Hall of Fame
Hey, just some points I thought I'd post
1) As stated before, shorted the takeback on the forehand, I know you've heard it like 20 times in this thread alone but it still stands
2) You appear to be leaning back on a few forehand.
3)You're hitting with quite a closed stance at times, you'll be able to incorperate more rotation with a more open stance. However, I suppose if you'd been playing for 4-odd hours then laziness is more than excusable!

But overall, Congrats you're doing very well for only having played for a year or so.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
You are way too late on the preparation - look at every shot and you will see that you do not take your racquet back until the ball is about to bounce in your court. Add to that your strokes are long, and you can see why you are late every time. It is not a problem when you are slow hitting, but a faster hitter will beat you off the court. You need to work on a progression of jump before the hit on the other side, turn just after the contact, and be ready at least by the time the ball is going over the net. Then take little tiny steps to perfect your position relative to the ball. As a check, see how you are positioned when a ball hits the net - were you already turned and ready?
 

mista-k

Rookie
your bh is better than your forehand coz your balance is better...I noticed your body on the forehands seem to either fall away/backwards and your ball would fly up or be everywhere else ...practice to "lean in" your shots rather than falling backwards- maybe coz your timing is slow or off...so your rotation on the hit seems to point upwards on your follow through...if you leaned in and caught the ball early/on the rise - the balls clearance from the net would decrease ---takes practice ----so think more leaning forwards into your shot than defensive

other thoughts - those shorts are big it close to capris...your height cant accomodate those shorts maybe Nadal could with Capris
couldnt tell which was more gay >with tight shirt or without (constructive criticism)
 

[K]aotic

Semi-Pro
I think MasturB is intentionally swinging to the side, using a "lateral" BH a la Henin and Gasquet. Suprisingly, he's done a really good job hitting the ball really out in front as you should with that kind of swing.

yeah but by turning, he is messing up the contact point (the contact poitn should be out in front). By turning, he is changing the trajectory of the racket which affects the timing and how well he can extend out.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
from what i've seen, you Have a huge backward momentum going right now.
You:

1) Generate most of your spin and pace off your arms
2) Most of your pace also comes from a huge takeback
3) You're core is used, but again the momentum shifts back

Right now all your shots on your forehand land on your back foot.
Really try to move yourself forward and compact your swing.


Backhand, your swing looks good, good timing too.
Problems are

1) I have this problem too, it's hard to change but, you need to have your right foot on the backhand to be pointed at the net, not directly but just a little bit. You have the same problem as me when having the right foot parallel, which is wrong. It causes you to not be able to move forward, since your right knee can't move forward, but only sideways. This also causes problem #2

2) You need to bend your legs a lot more. You end up doing alot of your right to be upright, instead of bent. Again this is caused by not having your right foot pointed to net. Again, not directly pointed, but atleast at a 45 degree angle?

But overall really, you look like you have a consistent and solid game for COMPETING. Really i think you would probably do well competing and playing matches, and if you really are as quick as you say you are, then you must be a pretty good COMPETITOR.

The things we critique on are mere technical issues. Don't have a bad day over these variables, because you can compete and that is what really matters.

Very good post.

Good luck MasturB, and thanks for sharing the vid!
 
A few things you can try to improve on first are preparing earlier and bettering your footwork. It seems like you're late on a lot of shots seeing as they keep accidentally spraying off to the sides. Additionally, the forehand is a bit arm-y and you could hit some more solid shots without such an unnecessary loop in the forehand with better weight transfer. Just some things to think about for now :)
 
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