Neos 1500 Base Clamp Moving?

[grhcan99]

Would anybody know what could be causing my string clamp to "twist" when releasing tension? I just started noticing this about more or less 7 string jobs ago. My theory is the base clamp is no longer clamping tight and moving. Am I correct? The movement is not much and I could see if moving after I release tension. And this is happening to just one of the clamps. On the images below I'm stringing the mains using synthetic gut at a tension of 52 lbs. If the base clamp has somehow "loosened up" is there a way to tighten it. Haven't asked Tennis Machines yet but will if I don't get any answers here. Thanks for any help.

 

[kkm]

Do you ever clean the clamp base rails? If not, clean the top and the inner. If that doesn't fix it, adjust the clamp bases' tightness. Having the increase the clamp bases' tightness by a lot could be a sign that something's wrong with them.

 

[kkm]

I think you might also be clamping the mains too high in the clamp teeth.

 

[grhcan99]

I just looked again and no the base is not moving at all when releasing tension. It's just the string clamp. I also made sure that I'm clamping the string at the bottom of the teeth. Why is it doing it and not the other? I mean at the end of the day it's nothing major. Just curious why all of a sudden it would behave this way.

 

[Dags]

I'm with @kkm and would first clean the rails. My hypothesis is that the base clamp isn't moving as smoothly as it was, and isn't always reaching the perfect position before you lock it. If the base is locked slightly off centre, then when you release tension the clamp is going to twist. This would also explain why you observe it on one clamp and not the other.

 

[grhcan99]

OK cleaned up the rails and everything that I could. The issue is still there. @Dags you have a point in the base "locking off center". You know I've noticed before that when I locked it with a string it would "shift" just ever so slightly into position. Could there be something in the base clamp that would make it do this?

Another thing that I've noticed during cleanup with 99% isopropyl alcohol is that as I wipe the underbelly of the base clamp the rag would come out blackened like there's some soot in there. Also right after I've wiped the rails with the rails still being damp and I move the base clamp along it it would streak with some black material. I see this in both clamps and rails though and it was like this since day one. I just thought it odd but didn't worry about it.

 

[Dags]

I probably worded that quite poorly. I was meaning off centre in relation to the string... which is possibly an even worse description! When everything is working properly, when we move to clamp to clamp the string, the base clamp should end up in alignment underneath. For the clamp to twist when tension is released it suggests the base isn't in the correct position, which implies that either the base clamp has moved, or it was never in the correct position when it was locked.

As cleaning the rails didn't fix it, next step would be to tighten the clamp. Is there an opening on the lever end of the base clamp? It may well be covered with a rubber stopper. If so, that's where the Allen key goes to tighten it. The base needs to be in the correct alignment otherwise you can't access the screw - should be 90 degrees to the turntable facing inwards. Clockwise tightens, anti-clockwise loosens. If you over tighten the base clamp simply won't move smoothly, so you'll know to back off a touch.

If that didn't make sense (and reading it back, that feels highly likely... it's been one of those days), I'll post a photo later. Your bases look very similar to mine, so I'm making an assumption that there can't be much deviation in the mechanics!

 

[grhcan99]

I totally understood what you meant the first time. And this second explanation states it even more clearly. And yes I see an opening there which when positioned correctly exposes a deep hole. I peered into it last night but couldn't see the end of it even with light shining into it. Ok I'll make a go for it. Thanks @Dags. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[grhcan99]

So I went in with an allen key, turned it clockwise just a bit. What it did was shorten the travel of the lever towards the locked position. I turned it back to so lever arrives at the marker that indicates "lock". It didn't do anything to affect snugness of the base clamp when locked. But I did try tensioning it at the tightened state and it didn't fix the issue.

 

[Dags]

In terms of both ideas and general maintenance, I'm probably out. I've never got as far as stripping a base clamp, so will leave any potential advice in that area for someone else.

One final piece of troubleshooting if you haven't tried it already - have you switched the clamps so that they're in the opposing bases? I would expect it to confirm the issue is with one base, but worth doing just in case it shows something else.

 

[grhcan99]

Yes I did try switching the string clamps hoping against hope that it could be that but no dice. Anyway, thanks @Dags for your help. I've already emailed JC from TennisMachines where I bought my machine from.

 

[grhcan99]

Reason I'm not too worried about this is that as I tension the next main it pulls the clamp back straight again.

 

[Irvin]

There are two centers on the base of the clamp. The center of the locking mechanism for the base and the center of the clamp post. For the clamp to twist your post center is twisting around the clamp as the base is locked. Try holding the post center in position as you lock the base and see what happens. If you preload the post of the clamp to negate drawback it can also cause this, you’re pushing the post center out of alignment.

 

[Irvin]

Also drawback can cause this problem especially on the outer strings. when stringing the outer strings the two centers on the clamp base are more out of alignment accentuating the twist action.

 

[grhcan99]

Yes I have tried nudging the post either outward or towards me before clamping to test that theory without success. But I do agree that it does have something to do with the post somehow "losing its center". I tried holding the base clamp with my left hand when releasing tension hoping to feel some movement but that thing is rock solid. Could the post have somehow gotten "bent" out of alignment in relation to its base?

 

[mmk]

I think Irvin has it - this is drawback. When tension is pulled on the string and the clamp is closed, everything is straight. Once the string is released from the tension head, there is normally some drawback as you now have tension on only one side of the clamp. As you noted, your base clamp is rock solid, it isn't moving. Something has to give, and in this case it is the clamp rotating a bit.

 

[grhcan99]

Yes, I don't have a problem with the drawback. I've had the drawback since day one It's the clamp twisting/rotating which as I've stated just started recently that intrigues me right now.

 

[Rabbit]

I think @Irvin is right. With my 1500, there were some rackets where on just two mains (one each side) the clamp would do exactly as the picture above. If I moved the base into the "right" position, the clamp would remain straight, but it was not worth the effort IMO. The string was fine with the next pull. @grhcan99 I don't think there's anything a miss with your bases or your clamps.

 

[mmk]

I think @Irvin is right. With my 1500, there were some rackets where on just two mains (one each side) the clamp would do exactly as the picture above. If I moved the base into the "right" position, the clamp would remain straight, but it was not worth the effort IMO. The string was fine with the next pull. @grhcan99 I don't think there's anything a miss with your bases or your clamps.

I occasionally have the same issue with an Alpha. No big deal.

 

[grhcan99]

Thanks guys. I won't worry about it then. I was "wishing" somebody would have said it's a goner then I could tell me wife that I needed that Alpha Ghost 2 now

 

[Rabbit]

@grhcan99, I consulted with some experts. I'd like to offer you a revised opinion. I think that the clamp, both base and clamp along with the turntable are beyond repair and you should look to replace the machine.

 

[grhcan99]

I knew it. You guys were just trying to give me some moral support here weren't you when in reality a twisting clamp can cost me my reputation. Imagine if my friends/clients find out about this

 

[mmk]

Yes, you need a new Ghost. And you should probably give away your 1500 as it is likely deadly dangerous - you never know when the clamp will just let go and the tensioned string hit you. If you are near Maryland, I'll save you from this dangerous machine.

 

[grhcan99]

Ok for my wife's sake I'll make another attempt to fix it. I think it's just fair, isn't it. As the post may now be definitely be mis-aligned I doubt it would take much to get my tiny 16lb sledgehammer and maybe hit it with a few gentle whacks to "center" it. I mean the post is made of metal, right?

 

[Irvin]

While the twisting of the clamp on most strings does not present a problem it does present a problem on tied odd strings because you can't pull out the twist through the knot. Make sure you don't have a twisted string when tying off.

 

[Rabbit]

Ok for my wife's sake I'll make another attempt to fix it. I think it's just fair, isn't it. As the post may now be definitely be mis-aligned I doubt it would take much to get my tiny 16lb sledgehammer and maybe hit it with a few gentle whacks to "center" it. I mean the post is made of metal, right?

tiny 16lb sledgehammer? And I thought I was the only person who owned stringing machine maintenance tools. I routinely use my tiny 16 pound sledgehammer to reset the electronic touch pad on the Mighty Sensor! The display tells me the Mighty Sensor needs cleaning; a couple of whacks from the tiny 16 pound sledgehammer and voila! it's reset. Wow...it is a small world after all!

On a more on-topic note, I did some more research overnight. The twisting of the clamp you describe can be symptomatic of bigger issues. Some of these issues can be related to your turntable warping, the arm on which the tensioner rides being faulty, and even the tensioner itself reaching the end of its useful life. Considering the breath of these issues, and the fact that replacement parts for the 1500 are in limbo at present with no bright light at the end of the tunnel (other than an oncoming train) I would seriously consider dumping that machine ASAP while you can still get scrap metal money for it and purchasing a Ghost 2. If it helps, please tell your wife that I majored in racket stringing in college.

 

[jim e]

@Rabbit is giving you sound advice, except I am surprised that you did not suggest getting the Sensor after scrapping his machine for scrap.

 

[Rabbit]

@Rabbit is giving you sound advice, except I am surprised that you did not suggest getting the Sensor after scrapping his machine for scrap.

You know, Jim, I don't want to be presumptuous or overbearing or insistent or know-it-all-ish or my-machine-is-the-end-all in my replies. I like for those who ask to have some latitude. Now, the Mighty Sensor is, without a doubt, the right machine for me, but it may not suit all. I, for one, find that some folks like chocolate and some like vanilla....and that's OK. With me, it's not my way or the highway; to each his own path. I know there are others here that insist they are very much right all the time, but that is nonsense.

 

[grhcan99]

tiny 16lb sledgehammer? And I thought I was the only person who owned stringing machine maintenance tools. I routinely use my tiny 16 pound sledgehammer to reset the electronic touch pad on the Mighty Sensor! The display tells me the Mighty Sensor needs cleaning; a couple of whacks from the tiny 16 pound sledgehammer and voila! it's reset. Wow...it is a small world after all!

On a more on-topic note, I did some more research overnight. The twisting of the clamp you describe can be symptomatic of bigger issues. Some of these issues can be related to your turntable warping, the arm on which the tensioner rides being faulty, and even the tensioner itself reaching the end of its useful life. Considering the breath of these issues, and the fact that replacement parts for the 1500 are in limbo at present with no bright light at the end of the tunnel (other than an oncoming train) I would seriously consider dumping that machine ASAP while you can still get scrap metal money for it and purchasing a Ghost 2. If it helps, please tell your wife that I majored in racket stringing in college.

ROFL!!!

 

[grhcan99]

Yaay, I have discovered a fix! String at 15lbs!

 

[mmk]

Yaay, I have discovered a fix! String at 15lbs!

Then your perfect customer is Daniel Nestor

 

[10shoe]

Downgrade to the Neos 1000 and you will not have a problem with clamps twisting any more.

 

[10shoe]

Out of curiousity, why DID you choose a machine with swivel clamps? I mean, I am in the business. I NEED swivel clamps. Et tu?

 

[grhcan99]

Out of curiousity, why DID you choose a machine with swivel clamps? I mean, I am in the business. I NEED swivel clamps. Et tu?

I string fan patterned racquets.

 

[10shoe]

Well, there ya go. Me too. And from time to time I see the kind of clamp twist you refer to. What's the last time you took an alcohol dampened rag and pulled it through the tube of the base clamp? (BTW, that's easier to do if you tie an old tennis shoe string to the rag). And after cleaning the shaft of the swivel clamp with alcohol just a really light oiling with a couple drops of oil on another clean rag.

 

[10shoe]

Another thing that I've noticed during cleanup with 99% isopropyl alcohol is that as I wipe the underbelly of the base clamp the rag would come out blackened like there's some soot in there. Also right after I've wiped the rails with the rails still being damp and I move the base clamp along it it would streak with some black material. I see this in both clamps and rails though and it was like this since day one. I just thought it odd but didn't worry about it.

The streaking is grease. The lever mechanism is supported by a pair of bearings that are packed with grease and it is oozing out the bottom of the clamp. You can probably clean this without disassembling the clamp bases but you will probably have to remove the rail assemblies from the vise to get at them effectively. The source of the ooze is pictured below. I think I actually disassembled mine and repacked the bearings with something a little less "runny" but it was eons ago so my memory is fuzzy.

 

[grhcan99]

Well, there ya go. Me too. And from time to time I see the kind of clamp twist you refer to. What's the last time you took an alcohol dampened rag and pulled it through the tube of the base clamp? (BTW, that's easier to do if you tie an old tennis shoe string to the rag). And after cleaning the shaft of the swivel clamp with alcohol just a really light oiling with a couple drops of oil on another clean rag.

Thanks I'll try that.

 

[grhcan99]

The streaking is grease. The lever mechanism is supported by a pair of bearings that are packed with grease and it is oozing out the bottom of the clamp. You can probably clean this without disassembling the clamp bases but you will probably have to remove the rail assemblies from the vise to get at them effectively. The source of the ooze is pictured below. I think I actually disassembled mine and repacked the bearings with something a little less "runny" but it was eons ago so my memory is fuzzy.

Ahh so that's how it looks from underneath.

 

[grhcan99]

Well @10shoe it looks like cleaning and oiling the tube has fixed the issue in so far as stringing a 98sqin Head Radical MP Graphene. True test would be stringing my POG107.

 

[jmnk]

Upgrade to the Neos 1000 and you will not have a problem with clamps twisting any more.

fixed it for you

 

[10shoe]

Well @10shoe it looks like cleaning and oiling the tube has fixed the issue in so far as stringing a 98sqin Head Radical MP Graphene. True test would be stringing my POG107.

Um, I guess my wording was unclear. After cleaning both the tube and the shaft with alcohol, I was suggesting a very, very, very light oiling of the shaft, not the tube.

 

[grhcan99]

Um, I guess my wording was unclear. After cleaning both the tube and the shaft with alcohol, I was suggesting a very, very, very light oiling of the shaft, not the tube.

No what I actually meant to say was that I oiled the shaft with a few drops not the tube.