No pace balls difficult

[FiReFTW]

Wonder if anyone else has similar experience currently or in their past (which they corrected/improved).

I dont really need help just wanted to share that lately coach has been analyzing a few sets and matches and some interesting observations came out about what to put more focus on and improve more during practice.

Well there are a couple things but the most interesting thing is, that my forehand is quite a solid weapon already, BUT when in facing faster balls or active spin balls, when the balls have energy on them.
Since I tend to also play close to baseline ive developed pretty good skills to redirect shots or hit on the rise or half volleys ocassionaly and also hit good against pace or active spin.

But the SLOWER and more DEAD the ball I receive is, the worse my forehand becomes.

Against those really dead balls that slowly land and bounce straight up in the air and have no forward momentum my forehand is absolutely horrible.

Now there were signs during play that I notice that deader balls are more difficult but only till now when doing a more in depth analyzis and being aware and also some tests with some drills did I notice that my forehand is not only slightly worse on such balls but its extremely weak and extremely suseptible to errors by overspinning them into the net or overhitting with not enouhg spin without finding a good balance.

While its cool to know this and its something i will put focus on now and practice alot against, I really am wondering everyones opinion here, thoughts, similar experiences etc

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Not much to add other than generating pace usually = more errors

Interested in anyone having solutions too

 

[FiReFTW]

Not much to add other than generating pace usually = more errors

Yes thats true and logical, however its quite insane what a difference it is, specially with my forehand, hitting on the rise against pace i hit great, meanwhile dead balls its an absolute mess.

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Yes thats true and logical, however its quite insane what a difference it is, specially with my forehand, hitting on the rise against pace i hit great, meanwhile dead balls its an absolute mess.

I sometimes wonder if it is related to the trajectory the ball comes in to the racquet it, more up and down rather than forward/back.

 

[mcs1970]

Bro..I mean this with no disrespect. Your constant threads on your game are coming off as TTPS's threads now. He used to be the same way...preaching one thing and then the next game he'd play...he'd come up with these observations as if those were unique, and start a thread on that.

This forum is littered with threads on how to handle slower balls, and the frustration lower level players face with those. Do you really need to start another thread to get tips on that?

 

[jga111]

Bro..I mean this with no disrespect. Your constant threads on your game are coming off as TTPS's threads now. He used to be the same way...preaching one thing and then the next game he'd play...he'd come up with these observations as if those were unique, and start a thread on that.

This forum is littered with threads on how to handle slower balls, and the frustration lower level players face with those. Do you really need to start another thread to get tips on that?

He is not asking for tips but sharing his analysis and instruction from his coach. Fair play to him, good to put this issue in the limelight again, it’s a struggle for many players

 

[mcs1970]

He is not asking for tips but sharing his analysis and instruction from his coach. Fair play to him, good to put this issue in the limelight again, it’s a struggle for many players

There are plenty of threads on this very topic. The basic advice to handle slower balls has never changed. I don't see his coach adding any new insights here tbh.

Anyway, my bad. You're correct. I can always ignore if I see redundant threads.

 

[dominikk1985]

Have you tried Low Drop feeds? High no pace balls are easy for a decent player but short balls below net height are tough even for good players. Do an about knee high drop feed in front of you and then hit it with heavy spin over the net.

But in games try to recognize them early and move in fast, above the net they are super easy

 

[FiReFTW]

Have you tried Low Drop feeds? High no pace balls are easy for a decent player but short balls below net height are tough even for good players. Do an about knee high drop feed in front of you and then hit it with heavy spin over the net.

But in games try to recognize them early and move in fast, above the net they are super easy

This particular opponent was hitting quite dead flat balls but they didnt bounce that high, so a nightmare!

Its also annoying when facing weak bunt servers that throw no pace serves in and they bounce low and have no pace.

 

[FiReFTW]

I sometimes wonder if it is related to the trajectory the ball comes in to the racquet it, more up and down rather than forward/back.

For sure, a ball with pace or spin comes towards you, but these kind of balls just sit up and jump up.

 

[AlexSV]

Wonder if anyone else has similar experience currently or in their past (which they corrected/improved).

I dont really need help just wanted to share that lately coach has been analyzing a few sets and matches and some interesting observations came out about what to put more focus on and improve more during practice.

Well there are a couple things but the most interesting thing is, that my forehand is quite a solid weapon already, BUT when in facing faster balls or active spin balls, when the balls have energy on them.
Since I tend to also play close to baseline ive developed pretty good skills to redirect shots or hit on the rise or half volleys ocassionaly and also hit good against pace or active spin.

But the SLOWER and more DEAD the ball I receive is, the worse my forehand becomes.

Against those really dead balls that slowly land and bounce straight up in the air and have no forward momentum my forehand is absolutely horrible.

Now there were signs during play that I notice that deader balls are more difficult but only till now when doing a more in depth analyzis and being aware and also some tests with some drills did I notice that my forehand is not only slightly worse on such balls but its extremely weak and extremely suseptible to errors by overspinning them into the net or overhitting with not enouhg spin without finding a good balance.

While its cool to know this and its something i will put focus on now and practice alot against, I really am wondering everyones opinion here, thoughts, similar experiences etc

My coach said the same thing Thursday. That I do well off pace and struggle a bit more on the off pace balls.

 

[ubercat]

Perfect opportunity to practice your slice game. See his low ball and raise him a low ball that s spinning sideways

 

[zaph]

If you can't hit those kind of balls, then your forehand is no weapon. Frankly I would moonball you to death.

Stop trying to smack these balls, place them instead. Your opponent has given a slow nothing ball on your forehand, you are now in control of the rally. Just aim the ball at the place they would least like it and hit it there. Simples.

 

[rogerroger917]

Ask your coach how to hit those for forcing shots or clean winners if they are inside the baseline a few feet. You can hit it very hard and safe. There is just a technique to it.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[FiReFTW]

Ask your coach how to hit those for forcing shots or clean winners if they are inside the baseline a few feet. You can hit it very hard and safe. There is just a technique to it.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Yes I have to learn this and work on it, because its honestly atrocious and maddening.

 

[TnsGuru]

I like this drill to help you to generate your own pace. The ball feed is slow so the person has to position themselves and swing fast to get good pace. I like to take the ball early when I can and use pace against a player but there are times you have to be patient, set up and swing fast at slower balls, see if you can get a lesson where a coach does this kind of feed, it should help you to not fear the slower balls ever again.

 

[Chadalina]

Rise - Peak - Decline

I've explained in the past, dont think anyone understood

 

[FiReFTW]

I like this drill to help you to generate your own pace. The ball feed is slow so the person has to position themselves and swing fast to get good pace. I like to take the ball early when I can and use pace against a player but there are times you have to be patient, set up and swing fast at slower balls, see if you can get a lesson where a coach does this kind of feed, it should help you to not fear the slower balls ever again.

Did something similar after these matches, coach just wanted to test to see how i do on these dead feed balls.

My backhand was actually great, hit it very hard with lots of spin and ball curved in and had nice topspin and power.

Forehand was a mess spin into the net and long and very poor control.

So my backhand seems good against dead balls whilst my forehand is extremely prone to errors... i could of course control it very easily and get the ball in, but thats not the point the point is to be able to hit an active ball that can trouble the opponent off these balls.

 

[Kevo]

Everybody has that trouble from time to time. Showed up a quite a few times in the Wimbledon final with Fed and Djokovic. You really have to just know what you are capable of doing with that kind of ball and then have the situational awareness to make the right shot choice when the floater shows up in a match. My usual tactic is to aim a little shorter in the court than usual and overdrive the spin. I try to let the spin carry the ball through the court. If you go for too much pace it's easy to over hit or get on top of the ball from being too early and mishit it or drive it into the net.

 

[fuzz nation]

Wonder if anyone else has similar experience currently or in their past (which they corrected/improved).

I dont really need help just wanted to share that lately coach has been analyzing a few sets and matches and some interesting observations came out about what to put more focus on and improve more during practice.

Well there are a couple things but the most interesting thing is, that my forehand is quite a solid weapon already, BUT when in facing faster balls or active spin balls, when the balls have energy on them.
Since I tend to also play close to baseline ive developed pretty good skills to redirect shots or hit on the rise or half volleys ocassionaly and also hit good against pace or active spin.

But the SLOWER and more DEAD the ball I receive is, the worse my forehand becomes.

Against those really dead balls that slowly land and bounce straight up in the air and have no forward momentum my forehand is absolutely horrible.

Now there were signs during play that I notice that deader balls are more difficult but only till now when doing a more in depth analyzis and being aware and also some tests with some drills did I notice that my forehand is not only slightly worse on such balls but its extremely weak and extremely suseptible to errors by overspinning them into the net or overhitting with not enouhg spin without finding a good balance.

While its cool to know this and its something i will put focus on now and practice alot against, I really am wondering everyones opinion here, thoughts, similar experiences etc

It's absolutely a different shot compared with sending a faster incoming "rally ball" to the other end of the court. The slow ball doesn't come to us, so we need to make an extra effort to move to the right spot to hit it. Since it doesn't have much energy in it, we need to add some to send it on its way, but not too much or it will easily sail off on the jet stream.

Somebody here (I think) got talking a while ago about the theory that the slow ball doesn't bite into our string beds as much as a faster ball, so it's also harder to get it to behave with a topspin stroke. Made sense at the time.

Tennis magazine had a tip some years ago that really stuck with me and I'm repeating it all the time when working with the high school teams that I coach. That tip was: Never try to add more than 5% pace to any ball. With a faster incoming rally ball, this is easy to understand. Swing too big and the ball can go way too fast to keep down on the court. But it's just as important when dealing with a slow ball that can distort our judgement in terms of both proper swing timing and a finding a good contact point.

Because I was slicing as a kid before I was hitting with topspin, I also like to encourage everyone to get more comfortable with the slice for so many shots that aren't too easy to handle with a topspin stroke. The slow incoming ball is a great candidate for a well controlled slice.

 

[Dragy]

This decease has several stages. First you have issues with getting to the ball. Penetrating shots demand lateral movement and fast setup. If you face strong ones, you step back other couple of feet, and wait for them there. Now for weak balls you need to get to exact spot to play them - laterally and depth-wise. However, you usually have time, it’s mostly a matter of not being lazy, moving fast, then precise with small steps, only settle right before you swing (or sometimes even moving through the shot).

Once you get past that it’s about how to hit: how hard, how spinny. There’s a deceptive feel on dead balls, when you perceive your shot as weaker due to initial collision being weaker - so based on that feedback you might try to hit much harder than you do against faster rally ball. Figure out how the ball flies actually, even with calmer hit sensation. It’s good enough.

Another story is related to weaker balls being short so frequently. If you hit against a weak flat deep lob, which falls down after bounce almost vertically behind the baseline, by all means hit it with good effort, through the ball, high over the net and with decent spin. But so many times you face a dead ball inside the baseline, and it’s just a different court length to land the ball in and different net position to clear. So it must be a differently calibrated shot, maybe less pace, maybe more spin, maybe lower over the net.

And yet another case is associated with killing short sitters, hanging above the net. You absolutely don’t want to lift them, but hit them forward-and-down, with some topspin for the shape. So it’s high racquet setup with almost zero drop before the accelerated swing, yet with moderate WW action.

So I think it’s about understanding those situations and practicing them... as always... boring

 

[undecided]

Wonder if anyone else has similar experience currently or in their past (which they corrected/improved).

I dont really need help just wanted to share that lately coach has been analyzing a few sets and matches and some interesting observations came out about what to put more focus on and improve more during practice.

Well there are a couple things but the most interesting thing is, that my forehand is quite a solid weapon already, BUT when in facing faster balls or active spin balls, when the balls have energy on them.
Since I tend to also play close to baseline ive developed pretty good skills to redirect shots or hit on the rise or half volleys ocassionaly and also hit good against pace or active spin.

But the SLOWER and more DEAD the ball I receive is, the worse my forehand becomes.

Against those really dead balls that slowly land and bounce straight up in the air and have no forward momentum my forehand is absolutely horrible.

Now there were signs during play that I notice that deader balls are more difficult but only till now when doing a more in depth analyzis and being aware and also some tests with some drills did I notice that my forehand is not only slightly worse on such balls but its extremely weak and extremely suseptible to errors by overspinning them into the net or overhitting with not enouhg spin without finding a good balance.

While its cool to know this and its something i will put focus on now and practice alot against, I really am wondering everyones opinion here, thoughts, similar experiences etc

You sound like me. When I am 'on' I can handle no pace balls but if I am having a mediocre or less day then no pace balls give me trouble.

 

[a12345]

Easy solution!

 

[Steady Eddy]

Nearly everything about tennis is unfair.

 

[heninfan99]

did you watch the Agassi Udemy series? He briefly speaks on this.

 

[FiReFTW]

did you watch the Agassi Udemy series? He briefly speaks on this.

What does he say

 

[graycrait]

The slow ball doesn't come to us, so we need to make an extra effort to move to the right spot to hit it.

I love feeding these sorts of ball to my friends, it absolutely wears us out to work on these. Moving up to the ball, getting the feet right and getting the racket spacing correct is seemingly hard for us older players who weren't "grooved" as juniors. I still think 10:1 practice to play is about right but most of my hitting buddies would rather reverse that ratio or just never practice. Fortunately I ran into a couple of 20-somethings who got burned out on tennis while playing the junior circuit. They prefer practicing now than point play.

 

[sredna42]

Yes thats true and logical, however its quite insane what a difference it is, specially with my forehand, hitting on the rise against pace i hit great, meanwhile dead balls its an absolute mess.

I think its more common than you'd think. I used to struggle heaps but was good redirecting etc too.

I took NYTA's advice a did heaps of drop feeds, and it really helped

 

[MajesticMoose]

Just gotta learn to be more disciplined on those sitting ducks or those slice or junk balls. Creating your own pace can be frustrating when you have to do it 3-5 shots in a row. My advice is either to be more disciplined or return those "slow" balls with a slice of your own. Develop a good slice backhand.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I just played my wife who mostly bunts my hard shots back. I've become very good at low paced balls and low bouncing flat shots from facing her.

As they say in tennis, you need to play against people better than you and people worse than you to develop a complete game.

Playing against weaker players teaches you to hit the soft ball with pace and directional control.

 

[ubercat]

Really comes down to what you were doing wrong. are they going into the net off the sidelines or missing long. could be a technique floor like over rotation or you could just be going for too much and not picking safe targets. by the sound of it I would bet that u were swinging too fast and not extending enough. Needs a vid.

 

[FiReFTW]

Really comes down to what you were doing wrong. are they going into the net off the sidelines or missing long. could be a technique floor like over rotation or you could just be going for too much and not picking safe targets. by the sound of it I would bet that u were swinging too fast and not extending enough. Needs a vid.

On faster balls or heavy spin balls I have very good control of the ball meaning I can do what I want almost, higher spin deep ball or more driving ball etc...

But on these sit up dead balls it seems I have much less control and much less margin, I go more through the ball and its quite easy to hit it long, I try to spin it much more and it can easily spin into the net, finding a harder time finding a good balance.

 

[Dartagnan64]

On faster balls or heavy spin balls I have very good control of the ball meaning I can do what I want almost, higher spin deep ball or more driving ball etc...

But on these sit up dead balls it seems I have much less control and much less margin, I go more through the ball and its quite easy to hit it long, I try to spin it much more and it can easily spin into the net, finding a harder time finding a good balance.

That just sounds like it needs practice. Balls into the air, let them bounce and hit them. Over and over again.

 

[ubercat]

And practice with targets. Really the point is just to keep the guy running ie hit where he is not. The classic play is to hit it near a corner and take the net. Placement is going to be much more important than speed. If I tried power hitting with my coach he smax me off the court. when he does cough put away ball like that I alternate between dropshots deep into the corner and fast axe like slices. Of course I never win he s the coach but I get a lot closer

 

[FiReFTW]

And practice with targets. Really the point is just to keep the guy running ie hit where he is not. The classic play is to hit it near a corner and take the net. Placement is going to be much more important than speed. If I tried power hitting with my coach he smax me off the court. when he does cough put away ball like that I alternate between dropshots deep into the corner and fast axe like slices. Of course I never win he s the coach but I get a lot closer

Placemenr yes but you need to learn how to hit forceful shots of these balls.

The interesting thing is my backhand has less problems with dead balls i can really swing fast and hit with lot of spin and pace, my fh seems the weakest on these particular balls, but yeah, will practice it alot now.

 

[undecided]

On faster balls or heavy spin balls I have very good control of the ball meaning I can do what I want almost, higher spin deep ball or more driving ball etc...

But on these sit up dead balls it seems I have much less control and much less margin, I go more through the ball and its quite easy to hit it long, I try to spin it much more and it can easily spin into the net, finding a harder time finding a good balance.

Experienced this today. Played this guy who cannot hit a hard serve so he was dinking balls over the net with zero pace. First 2 games, I was overhitting them trying to do something with them but it was too much. After that, I made sure I got there with plenty of time and basically top spin the ball softly into his back hand corner, softly is the key word, no need to go balls to the wall on this. I pretty much won all those 2nd serve dink points after that.

 

[navigator]

*Consistently* generating your own pace off of soft balls is one of the hardest things to do in tennis. (Anyone can do it once or twice in a rally, but doing it routinely over an entire match against someone who gives you little pace is entirely different.) It's basically a technique issue and most folks below the middling 5.0 level just don't have the necessary technique. I know I can't do it so I don't even try. Unless I'm hitting a passing shot, I just take the soft balls and hit them back with the same low pace and try to put them in inconvenient places (generally coming to net if it's short in the court). But I don't even bother trying to add much pace to these cream puffs. It's a recipe for errors. And that's just the way it is for the vast majority of rec players. Open players don't have much difficulty with these shots... because they're open players.

 

[FiReFTW]

*Consistently* generating your own pace off of soft balls is one of the hardest things to do in tennis. (Anyone can do it once or twice in a rally, but doing it routinely over an entire match against someone who gives you little pace is entirely different.) It's basically a technique issue and most folks below the middling 5.0 level just don't have the necessary technique. I know I can't do it so I don't even try. Unless I'm hitting a passing shot, I just take the soft balls and hit them back with the same low pace and try to put them in inconvenient places (generally coming to net if it's short in the court). But I don't even bother trying to add much pace to these cream puffs. It's a recipe for errors. And that's just the way it is for the vast majority of rec players. Open players don't have much difficulty with these shots... because they're open players.

But isnt it annoying that a decent player.. say someone of your level can basically become neutralized by an almost complete beginner (since almost anyone can keep dinking these no pace dead balls in play as it requires no skill)

 

[Enga]

Maybe you're too behind the ball? Overspinning or underspinning it makes me imagine that the ball is far in front of you, rather than on your right side.

 

[navigator]

But isnt it annoying that a decent player.. say someone of your level can basically become neutralized by an almost complete beginner (since almost anyone can keep dinking these no pace dead balls in play as it requires no skill)

If someone keeps doing it then I just come to net and put away a volley or OH. What is challenging is when you play someone who keeps you pinned to the baseline with no pace balls and then passes you when you try to come to net. That results in a very long day at the office. But those folks ain't beginners...

 

[jz000]

1. Hit it out of the air, with amazing footwork.
2. Predict where the ball will land and hit it on the rise.
3. Volley it, with less footwork.

 

[Dondon]

Use closed stance then jump n skip

 

[FiReFTW]

Maybe you're too behind the ball? Overspinning or underspinning it makes me imagine that the ball is far in front of you, rather than on your right side.

Im moving more casual to these slow balls so could be very possible

 

[Dragy]

But isnt it annoying that a decent player.. say someone of your level can basically become neutralized by an almost complete beginner (since almost anyone can keep dinking these no pace dead balls in play as it requires no skill)

Decent players I face (not semi-pro, well-trained consistent hard-hitters, but just good rec players) take advantage of short balls by placement and angles. Being inside the court and with enough time to get and adjust to the ball they usually find a good spot to hit to and don’t miss much. Although they leave some chance for me to run down the ball, it takes some great execution to pass them in such situations.
I mean, there’s a solution to beat a complete beginner and his dinks without being a monster short ball spinner-crusher And I think it’s a separate skill which I seem to lack.

 

[undecided]

Decent players I face (not semi-pro, well-trained consistent hard-hitters, but just good rec players) take advantage of short balls by placement and angles. Being inside the court and with enough time to get and adjust to the ball they usually find a good spot to hit to and don’t miss much. Although they leave some chance for me to run down the ball, it takes some great execution to pass them in such situations.
I mean, there’s a solution to beat a complete beginner and his dinks without being a monster short ball spinner-crusher And I think it’s a separate skill which I seem to lack.

This is the right approach for a rec player, it's tough to hit the ball hard off a dink but softly angling it with top spin to one of the two corners and coming in behind it will win more than 50% of those points.

 

[fuzz nation]

I love feeding these sorts of ball to my friends, it absolutely wears us out to work on these. Moving up to the ball, getting the feet right and getting the racket spacing correct is seemingly hard for us older players who weren't "grooved" as juniors. I still think 10:1 practice to play is about right but most of my hitting buddies would rather reverse that ratio or just never practice. Fortunately I ran into a couple of 20-somethings who got burned out on tennis while playing the junior circuit. They prefer practicing now than point play.

My dad is still playing with pals - he's 86. He sees the same attitude with his group in that everybody else wants to only do a very brief warm-up and then get right to starting a set. Sometimes he suggests a little extra practice, but the other guys aren't up for it.

We get out here and there to hit - I try to be his backboard and maybe cue him on this or that if he has a gremlin making too much trouble with his game. Early stroke preparation is usually the troublemaker. He has actually learned a two-handed backhand in the last couple of years and he didn't need to do anything heroic like practicing it six days a week. He just kept at it until it started to groove.

What's funny is when he goes out to play with his buds after we have done one of those workouts. I usually give him about thirty or forty serves so that he can practice his returns and that's usually where the biggest difference is on match day. His pals can usually tell when we've been out to practice because he's really getting a jump on the ball.

The 20-somethings that you've run into sound like a true windfall. I don't think you could hope to find any better hitting pals than those.

 

[FiReFTW]

So quite interesting, today when we were playing some points after practice with coach she said she will play just like these frustrating players, basically getting everything back, hitting deep moonballs, slicing the ball, dinking the serve slow and low etc...

Now of course my coach is way better than any rec player that plays like this so she can do whatever she wants consistently, but still, its a good simulation.

We played 4 games (I was using 2nd serve only) and she won 4 games easily, I think I won 2 points total.

She already said in game 2 that we will play a couple more and then we will talk about what im doing.

So after the 4 games we had a talk, she explained what I was doing wrong and then we played 2 games where I was the one playing that style and she would show me how I needed to play against it, she won the 2 games, and I got some glimpes exactly how easy it is to play against this as long as you are confident to execute.

Then after explaining it all in detail and telling me how I should aproach it instead, we played 3 more games where she again played like before, and I won all 3 games and it actually felt very comfortable and I felt in control, while before I was frustrated.

 

[GeoffHYL]

I had several short, no pace balls hit to me today. The one's I took full cuts on, FH and BH, I hit long. The shots I treated more like a volley were winners. I just got up to them very quickly and punched them with a bit of slice and good placement. Placement with decent pace trumps mediocre placement with good pace.

 

[zaph]

But isnt it annoying that a decent player.. say someone of your level can basically become neutralized by an almost complete beginner (since almost anyone can keep dinking these no pace dead balls in play as it requires no skill)

No, for two reasons. It takes skill to block back a good players shots. Good players generate so much pace and spin that a beginner wouldn't have a hope of consistently blocking their balls back into play, it takes skill to neutralise their kind of power. If a beginner can neutralise your shots, you're not as good as you think you are.

A good player would take advantage of a nothing ball to take control of the rally, so they would hardly considering it annoying.

 

[undecided]

No, for two reasons. It takes skill to block back a good players shots. Good players generate so much pace and spin that a beginner wouldn't have a hope of consistently blocking their balls back into play, it takes skill to neutralise their kind of power. If a beginner can neutralise your shots, you're not as good as you think you are.

A good player would take advantage of a nothing ball to take control of the rally, so they would hardly considering it annoying.

Not true, I played against a novice tennis player but seasoned racquet ball player. He was basically chopping the ball all day. Took me 2 whole games to adjust.