Players say bounces are higher, pace slower on U.S. Open hardcourts

[monologuist]

Random thoughts:

You cant compare tennis from 1990 or whatever to tennis of today..everything is different.

Federer is a most excellent serve/volleyer..he doesnt do it because there is no longer the right percentage in playing it...if there was he would. In fact, he used to play s.v more and as the conditions slowed down and the ball bounced higher, he stays back more and more

Often the WTA'ers use a lighter faster ball than the ATP'ers so even though the surfcae may be the same for both, the ATPers often use the heavier slower ball

Exactly. Before 2003, Federer was a brilliant serve and volleyer; just watch him dismantle Sampras at Wimbledon 2001...The baseline tennis in that match is nearly non-existent, and Federer shows up the SnV King himself. Federer turning the corner around 2003 has less to do with the courts slowing down as it does with his evolution mentally, the growth of his confidence, as well as the improvement of his backhand which was a clear weakness previously. This is what he says himself. The improved backhand was huge; people used to exploit his weaker wing, but in doing so, they did little more than provide him with several seasons of top flight backhand drills, forcing him to improve his topspin backhand considerably, as well as developing the variety of slice shots hat he has now mastered and uses to devastating effect in constructing points and playing defense.

The evolution of his game towards baseline play, is likely a conscious adjustment on his part, in order to adapt to the changing surfaces. There are few that actually have the option to make these adjustments with such ease, but clearly Federer posseses the necessary arsenal of shots and athletic talent to do so. In the process, it is likely that his SnV'ing skills may have diminished somewhat, out of a lack of practice. I would also say that Federer's serve seems to have slipped in the last year or so; especially after his injury before Shanghai 2005...not sure why, but the drop in consistency could also contribute to his decreased SnV'ing. It would also seem strange for him to take on Tony Roche as his coach if his intention was to persist in becoming a pure baseliner rather than an all-courter.

 

[fastdunn]

Settle down cuddler. You reminds me of other id who disappeared lately.
You seem to have follow every posting of mine but mis-interpreted some of them.
You can make any false accusation/defamation on me if it comforts you.
But I bet the more you do that, the more you'll get hurt only after whatever
temporary comfort you're feeling now.

It appears that there will be no intelligent communications with you in the future.

Any person not drunk or stoned that says in the matter of only about 2 days:

Agassi and Federer are same kind of mover around court
Chang volleys better then Federer
WTA surfaces are speeding up while ATP are slowing down when the play slams on the same surfaces

.......is calling me a nut, you really a tall drink of something. Most people would be covering their head in shame after saying those things, once they got over their hangover they were probably on.

Also you were the one who quoted alot of my posts so dont give me this "well why do you read my......" since you are the one who was trying to push your strange opinions on me by quoting me first, not vice versa. One final time I now conclude your posts are meant for humour and comic relief and will only read them from on for such purposes, not for serious tennis discussion as they make too little sense to even start to debate on. So dont try and engage in conversation by quoting me in the future. It would be funny to read some of your womens tennis views which might be:

Hingis has a better serve then Serena Williams
Davenport moves the same as Venus
Capriati is better at net then Mauresmo or Hingis

 

[Babblelot]

Settle down cuddler. You reminds me of other id who disappeared lately.

lol

 

[Bogie]

Players like
Johakim(?) Johansson were supposed to be next generation dominating
power players. Where are they now ?

uuhhhhhh...........injured for a year and a half.

 

[The tennis guy]

Didn't just about everybody S&Ved at Wimbledon in 2001 or before ?

But let's compare his offensive weapons to those of power players of 90's.
Federer isn't exactly that type, is he ? Players like Marat Safin or
Johakim(?) Johansson were supposed to be next generation dominating
power players. Where are they now ?

I think you get into a position you can't get out.

No question, as the way Federer is playing right now, he would have struggled on super fast indoor carpet. However, Federer can adapt. Not just at Wimbledon, he served and volleyed a lot more prior to 2003 - he was a better volleyer back then than he is today because he hasn't gone up there enough. In 2000, when slowdown hadn't occured, Sampras was asked who would be the next dominating player like him. He didn't hesitate at all by saying Federer. Federer has the game to play well on any surface.

You know Safin, he is a head case, that has nothing to do with court surface. His best result in slam came from medium speed Australia Open.

Joachim Johansson got to semifinal at "SLOW" US Open in 2004. He had major shoulder surgery after 2005 Australia Open, hasn't recovered yet. Otherwise he would be in top 10, no question in my mind.

New construction materials make hardcourt bounce higher, you have to accept that. On the other hand, ATP should bring the indoor carpet season back after US Open to give serve and volleyers extended period to enjoy. They are trying with introduction of Master Cup final on indoor supreme.

 

[ontherise17]

what i dont get about this whole ordeal is why navratilova is the expert on this? sure she knows how the court is playing but couldnt it also be shes 50 years old and her volleys arent exactly a threat to most players. when shes talking about having 5 minutes to track down a volley. DUH ur 50. its the evolution of the game honestly.

another thing is i feel like they are slowing down the courts to balance the extremely powerful racquets players are using. when you have half of the tour using a PD its no doubt you need to slow the courts down a bit.

if you start speeding up the courts i doubt players will miraculously go back to serving and volleying.

and if you look at any sport over the past 50 years everyone of them has evolved. not just tennis. baseball is all about juicing and homeruns. basketball is all about which team slamdunks the most. hockeys all about pounding slapshots from the point. and has anyone seen how big golf clubs have gotten? its all due to advancements in technology and the evolution of players physiques. and the same is true with tennis. the sport HAS to change. and the only reason tennis enthusists have such a problem goes back to tennis being such a sport bound by tradition and rules. tennis has to change. it has changed. and will continue to change as time goes on.

i actually feel like its taken a turn back to better tennis. no longer do two shot ralleys determine a winner. wheres the fun or talent or challenge in that? tennis should be more about stamina and precision and consistancy. it would speak more to the athletic abilities of tennis players. i shouldnt have to defend my sport through high school and dispell it as a "wussy sport". its gonna be hard for someone to call it that when you ask them if they wanna be in constant movement for 5 hours in 80+ degree (most of the time 90+ degree) heat.

im all for the evolution of the sport. even if it includes slower courts.

 

[fastdunn]

Not just Safin and Johansson. You probably know the general trend of
power players in current tour. There are lots of "woulda" 'coulda"s. but
look what we actually have now. The number of big power players
definitely decreased at top, doesn't it ? I'm NOT suggesting 90's condition
was better. There's definitely difference.

I don't know whether this evolution is good or bad. But I don't think it's fair
to say the evolution is fine becasue we have a player like Federer but suddenly
not OK since Nadal starts to dominate. It's unfair bias, IMHO.

I think you get into a position you can't get out.

No question, as the way Federer is playing right now, he would have struggled on super fast indoor carpet. However, Federer can adapt. Not just at Wimbledon, he served and volleyed a lot more prior to 2003 - he was a better volleyer back then than he is today because he hasn't gone up there enough. In 2000, when slowdown hadn't occured, Sampras was asked who would be the next dominating player like him. He didn't hesitate at all by saying Federer. Federer has the game to play well on any surface.

You know Safin, he is a head case, that has nothing to do with court surface. His best result in slam came from medium speed Australia Open.

Joachim Johansson got to semifinal at "SLOW" US Open in 2004. He had major shoulder surgery after 2005 Australia Open, hasn't recovered yet. Otherwise he would be in top 10, no question in my mind.

New construction materials make hardcourt bounce higher, you have to accept that. On the other hand, ATP should bring the indoor carpet season back after US Open to give serve and volleyers extended period to enjoy. They are trying with introduction of Master Cup final on indoor supreme.

 

[foetz]

It is disgusting how they are trying to turn tennis in a year round clay court season. It is bad enough they have 3 masters events on clay and 0 on grass and have eliminated almost all the carpet events. Now though grass has been slowed to the point people say it like slow hard court, fast hard court has been slowed to the point it is very slow hard court, and rebound ace has been slowed to the point it is like slow clay. It is pathetic, that is why we see clay courters like Mauresmo, Nadal, and Henin dominating now, the whole tour is like a big clay court show these days. People are going to start watching tennis if the womens and mens tour dont realize what crap they are trying to pull right now.

sad but true

 

[ontherise17]

I don't know whether this evolution is good or bad. But I don't think it's fair
to say the evolution is fine becasue we have a player like Federer but suddenly
not OK since Nadal starts to dominate. It's unfair bias, IMHO.

exactly!

 

[The tennis guy]

Not just Safin and Johansson. You probably know the general trend of
power players in current tour. There are lots of "woulda" 'coulda"s. but
look what we actually have now. The number of big power players
definitely decreased at top, doesn't it ? I'm NOT suggesting 90's condition
was better. There's definitely difference.

I don't know whether this evolution is good or bad. But I don't think it's fair
to say the evolution is fine becasue we have a player like Federer but suddenly
not OK since Nadal starts to dominate. It's unfair bias, IMHO.

I agree with your first point. I said long time ago it's not fair to compare today's top players against players in 90s because condition have changed. Big servers don't have as much advantage anymore. British ACE magazine asked former top 10 players compare today's tennis vs 10 years ago. Ivanisevic said the big difference is he could rely on his serve to win many matches before, he couldn't in today's condition.

I think you are confusing my point completely. I never said it is not OK since Nadal dominates. I simply pointed out Nadal's wins on hardcourt are all slow to medium high bouncing courts - he bombed out in Cinci and US Open, two of the faster courts. I simply pointed out the court condition well before this sudden realization of slowdown on this board recently. My point has always been condition makes players they are today. It is pointless to say Federer can't do this, can't do that compared to players in 90s because the condition today dictate how he plays. We already know he plays differently today than 4 years ago.

ATP is not going to reverse the trend of overall slow down and higher bouncing court. People are advocating to bring some carpet tournaments back in the fall. That's all they are going to do in the next a few years. Master Cup was a start.

 

[fastdunn]

I think you are confusing my point completely. I never said it is not OK since Nadal dominates.

Yep. I never meant you said it. Some other posters in this thread
and some other thread basically say so. Sorry if I suggested you
said it.

Basically, my point is that Federer and Nadal must be sharing same
quality that make them so successful in current tour condition.

 

[The tennis guy]

Basically, my point is that Federer and Nadal must be sharing same
quality that make them so successful in current tour condition.

Nadal benefited a lot more than Federer if Federer benefited at all. Federer doesn't mind faster, lower bouncing court because he has been successful at Cinci and US Open type of low bouncing fast court while Nadal started as a clay courter, then adjusting his game to faster court gradually. Today's US Open court is still faster than pre-1997 US Open court. The big change of condition occurs at spring and fall season - which is why the article is misleading. The spring outdoor courts used to be similar to US Open series, while indoor courts were mostly carpet.

 

[fastdunn]

Nadal benefited a lot more than Federer. Federer doesn't mind faster, lower bouncing court because he has been successful at Cinci and US Open type of low bouncing fast court while Nadal started as a clay courter, then adjusting his game to faster court gradually. Today's US Open court is still faster than pre-1997 US Open court. The big change of condition occurs at spring and fall season - which is why the article is misleading. The spring outdoor courts used to be similar to US Open series, while indoor courts were mostly carpet.

Yes, probably Nadal is benefiting from it more.
But there's just too much coincidence
between the slowing down of surfaces and Federer's success.

From 2001, Wimbledon started to use 100% rye grass. That's when
Federer beat Sampras (although Sampras was declining) and Hewiit
the defensive baseliner won it that year.

In 2003, Wimbledon further slowed it down by changing the layer
underneath grass. In 2003, US Open slowed the surface down to
current condition. And that's the year when Federer really broke
out and started to dominate. Could it be just Federer having
mental break-out? Finally things start working perfectly?

I think the "slowness" of courts I and Moose are refering to
is different from "slowness" that you're refering. I think you're
refering to the speed of slower courts on today's tour.
And I'm refering to "general" slowing down of courts since
2001. Then I think I can agree with you....

 

[wimble10]

are any US Open series tournament played on Har-tru?
How about WTT matches?