Playing against players that are better than you

[Deleted member 25923]

Am I putting myself to a disadvantage by mainly playing players that are better than me? My main hitting partners are my brother and cousin (both are probably 4.0 level. My cousin did pretty well in a 4.0 league, if my memory serves me well).

I'm probably 3.0-3.5

When I play them, i'm almost always on the defensive unless I take the net or get good serves in (my serve is improving, lately I've been going for spots with spin).

In baseline rallies, i'm usually playing a defensive role.

Is it normal for me to be playing defensive against higher players? My bro told me i'm a counterpuncher, and I replied by saying only because they make me play defense.

My game is typically work the point until I get a short ball I can get to net on. I like to finish at the net, and I do serve and volley often. I do concede that I should be more offensive more often though.

 

[mikeler]

I like to play people at my level or 0.5 above me. I also like to play a wide variety of players. It forces you to execute different strategies against each opponent.

 

[Zachol82]

Playing against players that are better than you only makes you better if you put on your learning mindset in the process. You must also go for winners and be aggressive whenever you can. Even a 2.0 wont get any better if he plays against a 5.0 and all he does is just dink balls back.

Pay attention to your opponent. See what he does in different circumstances. If he is hitting an extremely hard forehand, see what he's doing different from you that's giving him so much more power.

Remember to go all out on a chance ball! Contrary to many beliefs, going for winners is the BEST way to improve your winners, if you don't use it, it'll never improve...pretty obvious. That being said, only go for winners on shots that you feel prepared for. If you can barely catch up to the ball, dont attempt a random winner.

 

[coyfish]

I think it depends on your level. If your a 3.0 playing a 4.0 I think its pointless. You will be forced to go for broke on your shots out of desperation or just push and get the ball smashed.

The best thing for the 3.0-3.5 is just to work on mechanics and consitancy. Hit with people that make you hit the ball as much as possible. Ball machine is your friend.

Once your a solid 4.0-4.5 though you can play with higher levels and improve more.


Like mikeler said ideally you wan't to hit with people .5 below and .5 above you. The more variety the better.

You need wins to gain confidence and losses to keep you fixing your game.

 

[Matchball]

I want to add something to this post.

Have in mind that these guys always have the feeling that they need to prove they are better players than you are. This can make them worse at the very moment you can "freely" concentrate your energy on "upseting" their game.

This will benefit you immensely... You always end up being better if you play with people that are better than you. But it's a learning experience you also have the personal responsibility to utilize!! Basically, read their game and see what they do best. Is it variety, confidence, some favorite strokes ?

I 'd say:

1. Raise your level of concentration
2. Absolutely try to minimize return errors when they serve.

Now, these two steps are the best start.

3. Try to safely bring some variety in your game and interpret the outcome.
4. Spare that counterpuncher accusation and ruin their confidence with good footwork and "answers" from all over the court.
5. Gradually hit extreme angles and longlines.
6. Work on your serve too.

I don't know what's the case, but you'll be surprised of how much you can surprise them if you start from a high concentration level against their mentality of already having won before even playing...

It's always a mental thing, if you want the "margin" for more offensive play and experimentation, you need to minimize your errors and gain confidence first. Then, try to adapt to the "patterns" of their game and upset them by bringing new things in your game. You can't loose . . .

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Why try to play a match against them? Since you have them handy, why not practice? You should be working on improving your shots.

Having someone who can hit the ball back to you in a uniform way and give you tips along the way is a big advantage. You can also play a match against them where they do not try to crush you (which seems like no fun). Rather, they should think of is as practice- hitting the ball back, moving you around, giving you the opportunity to hit lots of balls back.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Why try to play a match against them? Since you have them handy, why not practice? You should be working on improving your shots.

Having someone who can hit the ball back to you in a uniform way and give you tips along the way is a big advantage. You can also play a match against them where they do not try to crush you (which seems like no fun). Rather, they should think of is as practice- hitting the ball back, moving you around, giving you the opportunity to hit lots of balls back.

Lately, it's been indoor practices, so time is limited. We play tiebreaks up to 5, then winner stays and a third man rotates in. We use the first 45 minutes as practice.

Personally, I feel i need more practice and less of these tiebreaks. I usually get blown away unless I come in and even then, it's a forced error by them or an unforced error by them.

I want to add something to this post.

Have in mind that these guys always have the feeling that they need to prove they are better players than you are. This can make them worse at the very moment you can "freely" concentrate your energy on "upseting" their game.

This will benefit you immensely... You always end up being better if you play with people that are better than you. But it's a learning experience you also have the personal responsibility to utilize!! Basically, read their game and see what they do best. Is it variety, confidence, some favorite strokes ?

I 'd say:

1. Raise your level of concentration
2. Absolutely try to minimize return errors when they serve.

Now, these two steps are the best start.

3. Try to safely bring some variety in your game and interpret the outcome.
4. Spare that counterpuncher accusation and ruin their confidence with good footwork and "answers" from all over the court.
5. Gradually hit extreme angles and longlines.
6. Work on your serve too.

I don't know what's the case, but you'll be surprised of how much you can surprise them if you start from a high concentration level against their mentality of already having won before even playing...

It's always a mental thing, if you want the "margin" for more offensive play and experimentation, you need to minimize your errors and gain confidence first. Then, try to adapt to the "patterns" of their game and upset them by bringing new things in your game. You can't loose . . .

Thanks, i'll try this out.

Playing against players that are better than you only makes you better if you put on your learning mindset in the process. You must also go for winners and be aggressive whenever you can. Even a 2.0 wont get any better if he plays against a 5.0 and all he does is just dink balls back.

Pay attention to your opponent. See what he does in different circumstances. If he is hitting an extremely hard forehand, see what he's doing different from you that's giving him so much more power.

Remember to go all out on a chance ball! Contrary to many beliefs, going for winners is the BEST way to improve your winners, if you don't use it, it'll never improve...pretty obvious. That being said, only go for winners on shots that you feel prepared for. If you can barely catch up to the ball, dont attempt a random winner.

I definately need to go for more winners.

I think it depends on your level. If your a 3.0 playing a 4.0 I think its pointless. You will be forced to go for broke on your shots out of desperation or just push and get the ball smashed.

The best thing for the 3.0-3.5 is just to work on mechanics and consitancy. Hit with people that make you hit the ball as much as possible. Ball machine is your friend.

Once your a solid 4.0-4.5 though you can play with higher levels and improve more.


Like mikeler said ideally you wan't to hit with people .5 below and .5 above you. The more variety the better.

You need wins to gain confidence and losses to keep you fixing your game.

is this because at that point i'll have the kind of consistency to stay in the points?


Also, my coach has been telling me to aim high over the net, work the points in, but i've also heard that I should be stepping in more and going through my shots. I'm a bit confused here.

 

[drake]

Am I putting myself to a disadvantage by mainly playing players that are better than me?

Is it normal for me to be playing defensive against higher players?

No and Yes. It's always better to both practice and play against better players however if you're the type of player that prefers to play over practice then you'll be in 3.0 - 3.5 limbo. SW grip and foot speed, spin with pace and preparing early with proper balance. This is your best route to consistency under pressure. The only way to learn this is practice, not against higher level match play.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

No and Yes. It's always better to both practice and play against better players however if you're the type of player that prefers to play over practice then you'll be in 3.0 - 3.5 limbo. SW grip and foot speed, spin with pace and preparing early with proper balance. This is your best route to consistency under pressure. The only way to learn this is practice, not against higher level match play.

I believe in a balance, but feel like lately has been too much matchplay. That's why I enjoy my tennis sessions on saturday mornings. We get more practice in to groove our strokes. Even practice matches can be detrimental IMO.

I already use a SW grip, though I need to flatten my shots out more.

 

[mikeler]

When playing a match, I typically try and start out conservatively looping balls back. If I start getting bossed around the court, then I will start driving through the ball more.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

When playing a match, I typically try and start out conservatively looping balls back. If I start getting bossed around the court, then I will start driving through the ball more.

That sounds like Brad Gilbert's approach. I do this on my serves, and as a result, my spin serves are getting much better.

 

[Nellie]

Playing better players will make you better (make you prepare and move better, for example) but you will struggle against 3.0 junk (the paceless ball at the service line!) because you get to the higher level of play.

 

[OHBH]

Lately, it's been indoor practices, so time is limited. We play tiebreaks up to 5, then winner stays and a third man rotates in. We use the first 45 minutes as practice.

If you have three men on court you should use the Harry Hopman drills.
Perfect for your situation.
If they are good enough for Laver...

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/instruction.aspx?articleid=609&zoneid=18

 

[samster]

To OP,

Have you posted any videos for us to critique?

 

[Deleted member 25923]

To OP,

Have you posted any videos for us to critique?

I'm working on the camera issue. I'm not that great though

I have a video camera, but it still works on tapes and I don't know how to get that on the computer.

 

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

This is the best way to improve at any sport. Michael Jordan used to try to beat his older brother this drove him to bball goat status.

It has worked for me at tennis on a much smaller scale of course.

 

[Geezer Guy]

Am I putting myself to a disadvantage by mainly playing players that are better than me?

Yes you are. You're teaching yourself how to lose.

You need to learn how to win. About half your matches should be against players that are your equal. Try to play a variety of players that have different styles. Play some counter-punchers, some serve and volleyers, and yes - even some pushers. Play about a quarter of your matches against players you think you should beat. If you get ahead, work on aspects of your game that you're weaker in. However - you should still do your best to win these matches. Finally, play about a quarter of your matches against players you think you probably can't beat. Take these matches seriously, work out a game plan and even a plan B for each match, and do your best to win those matches.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

This is the best way to improve at any sport. Michael Jordan used to try to beat his older brother this drove him to bball goat status.

It has worked for me at tennis on a much smaller scale of course.

I'm trying to beat my older brother too. Will I reach GOAT status?

Yes you are. You're teaching yourself how to lose.

You need to learn how to win. About half your matches should be against players that are your equal. Try to play a variety of players that have different styles. Play some counter-punchers, some serve and volleyers, and yes - even some pushers. Play about a quarter of your matches against players you think you should beat. If you get ahead, work on aspects of your game that you're weaker in. However - you should still do your best to win these matches. Finally, play about a quarter of your matches against players you think you probably can't beat. Take these matches seriously, work out a game plan and even a plan B for each match, and do your best to win those matches.

This is my biggest fear. Sometimes I feel like walking on the court it's like "Ok, goal for the match, don't get bageled"

Then I win a game and think "Hey maybe I could do it" and but I guess that seed of doubt is still in there.

Case in point: Last monday, played some kid who I know is better than me in a set (No Ad scoring).

Who woulda thunk it, I broke him in the first game! And it was almost like "alright, just gotta make it look respectable". I'm up 2-1, and then he beats me 6-2.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

If you have three men on court you should use the Harry Hopman drills.
Perfect for your situation.
If they are good enough for Laver...

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/instruction.aspx?articleid=609&zoneid=18

Holy crap, is this the majority of what Laver did?

 

[rk_sports]

Playing better players will make you better (make you prepare and move better, for example) but you will struggle against 3.0 junk (the paceless ball at the service line!) because you get to the higher level of play.

On a slightly different topic..just wanted to clarify if this is a common pattern..
'make you better' should mean that you can handle all under your level right?
Though this seems to be true to me.. I can hang with some pretty good level players for sometime but make too many errors when facing a junk baller..
I've a friend who is pretty good.. and when he get junk balls.. he just kills them.. there is no way a junk baller can win against him

 

[35ft6]

If you're practicing with somebody better, try to be consistent. That is the best thing you can do for yourself AND them. Don't try to be better than you are, hit harder, go for more, to try to prove you're their equal. All you're going to do is miss and believe me nobody is going to believe you're having a bad day.

 

[EP1998]

35ft6 is spot on with this. I have always been asked by players way better than me in terms of match results to practice. The reason is that I am very consistent. When I practice with these types of players, I dont miss and can hit a deep, high quality ball. I am also very respectful and dont make stupid comments. that is very important, lol. It helps though that I have hit a lot of balls in my lifetime so I can always dial into that and that nothing impresses me so I have very laid back personality.

 

[KenC]

It's a good idea to play players above you as long as you are willing to try to raise your level. Its also fine to play players below you as long as you don't reduce yourself to their level of play. It's a good idea to play as wide a variety of players as possible, including lefties, people with 1HBHs, 2HBHs, older players who just love to slice everything, baseline bashers, net players, etc. Get as much experience as you can with the widest variety of hit balls possible.

Its a bad idea to only play people at your level, or even slightly above or below, because as you get better and enter tournaments you will find a little bit of everything, from pushers to killers. You will often have to play people several levels below you and several levels above you. Its a good idea to be prepared for everything in a tournament.

 

[mikeler]

It's a good idea to play players above you as long as you are willing to try to raise your level. Its also fine to play players below you as long as you don't reduce yourself to their level of play. It's a good idea to play as wide a variety of players as possible, including lefties, people with 1HBHs, 2HBHs, older players who just love to slice everything, baseline bashers, net players, etc. Get as much experience as you can with the widest variety of hit balls possible.

Its a bad idea to only play people at your level, or even slightly above or below, because as you get better and enter tournaments you will find a little bit of everything, from pushers to killers. You will often have to play people several levels below you and several levels above you. Its a good idea to be prepared for everything in a tournament.

Totally agree with this. I have all types of players in my rotation and it forces you to strategize and play differently against each.

 

[raiden031]

If you only play against better players than yourself, then you will hinder your progress. It is not healthy to develop your tennis game by losing every single time you step on the court. You have to learn how to dictate play as well. If you are always against someone better than you, then you get too used to reactionary tennis where everything you do is dependent upon your opponent.

I reached 4.0 by playing only against 3.0 and 3.5 players. I was getting very good practice and improving despite playing with some people who were skilled below me. The turning point wasn't until I started beating all my 3.5 partners in straight sets regularly that I needed to find some better practice partners.

As often posted here as a rule of thumb, you need to play with players below, equal to, and above you. It should be a 25-50-25 ratio. That is the ideal scenario for a player who is looking to improve.

 

[10ACE]

Am I putting myself to a disadvantage by mainly playing players that are better than me? My main hitting partners are my brother and cousin (both are probably 4.0 level. My cousin did pretty well in a 4.0 league, if my memory serves me well).

I'm probably 3.0-3.5

When I play them, i'm almost always on the defensive unless I take the net or get good serves in (my serve is improving, lately I've been going for spots with spin).

In baseline rallies, i'm usually playing a defensive role.

Is it normal for me to be playing defensive against higher players? My bro told me i'm a counterpuncher, and I replied by saying only because they make me play defense.

My game is typically work the point until I get a short ball I can get to net on. I like to finish at the net, and I do serve and volley often. I do concede that I should be more offensive more often though.

You want to play people better then you, it raises your game. If you play people who are the same as you or worse, you stay in your comfort zone, and this stops being challenging. Granted you do not want to enter a 5.0 or open tournament as a 3.0-3.5 But hitting with or playing against them from time to time will be highly beneficial. I also find practicing with someone better then me- allows for great rallies and a solid workout.

 

[azbabolat]

the better your opponets are, then the better you will get.