Please critique this 7-years old

Good day here!
I am asking for a little help here to take a look at my 7 year son who is obsessed with tennis. Please critique his if you see any flows.
We live in Columbia, SC where it is very hard to find a good tennis coach.
There are plenty of them but unfortunately for the most part they are somewhat recreational coaches and thus are limited to teaching good technique which is so crucial for the beginners.
He started playing at age of 6 and seriously practicing for about 6 months.
As his game picking up he started dreaming about playing tournaments.
In this video he is playing a mini-tennis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_20dcHK2As&feature=plcp
I’m a 3.5-4.0 tennis player myself who unfortunately picked up a tennis racquet only 3-years ago as an adult and trying to help my son based on the info I’m gathering from several tennis coaching websites. He is working with a tennis coach from time to time.
At this point we just started working on the modern footwork patterns (cross steps and shuffle) and I’m trying to change his racquet take back on the forehand as I think he takes it a little behind his right shoulder. Don’t know what else may need to be changed to build a solid base.

Thanks in advance for watching and leaving a feedback.
I would love to hear any advice.


PS. I thank everyone here who gave us the feedback and advice on what to concentrate on.
For the last couple of days we concentrated on changing the FH back swing to shorten it up and keep it on the right part of the body, contact point and the footwork. I want to ask you guys to take another look to evaluate our homework to see if we are going in the right direction. As my son is in the process of changing the back swing. He is still a little stiff which I hope will change once he gets comfortable with new movement.
Here is the second video of him rallying with the orange balls. Thanks for watching and leaving the feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-s25G8_zgo&feature=channel&list=UL
 
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Fuji

Legend
I got "An Error Occurred During Validation" when I tried to load it. Not sure if the error is on your end or mine!

-Fuji
 

Korso

Semi-Pro
Nice! Excellent stroke production. But, I am a little worried that he sets up a bit to close to the ball, and makes contact a bit late, on his forehand. You should correct those habits before they become engrained.

Agree here. Point of contact needs be further away.
 
Nice! Excellent stroke production. But, I am a little worried that he sets up a bit to close to the ball, and makes contact a bit late, on his forehand. You should correct those habits before they become engrained.

Thanks for pointing it out. His normal contact point is in front. But yes, you are correct, when he doesn't have enough time to prepare for the shot his is getting late sometime and his contact zone changes to be close to the body. I think partially it's because he doesn't quite understand yet how to judge the incoming ball or shorten his swing when needed. When I hand feed the balls to him everything works normal. Thanks
 

pkshooter

Semi-Pro
Just let him have fun, his strokes are better then my freind's. Can he play with full compression balls, I think his footwork is there... Idk
 
Agree here. Point of contact needs be further away.

I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
In my view if you look at the very first forehand in the beginning of the video you can see that the contact zone is well in front.
Again, I'm not a coach and I can only judge by what I can see from the pros or what his coach says.
 
Just let him have fun, his strokes are better then my freind's. Can he play with full compression balls, I think his footwork is there... Idk
I normally don't let him play with regular balls, once in a while I drop them off to his forehand or backhand at the baseline so he can hit with good extension and generate racquet head speed, just a few. Couple time a month he attends tennis clinic where he can play points with teenagers. But only for about 10 minutes max, I don't think he is old enough to play with regular balls as I believe if he develops right footwork and technique he shouldn't have hard time to adjust.
 

Korso

Semi-Pro
I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
In my view if you look at the very first forehand in the beginning of the video you can see that the contact zone is well in front.
Again, I'm not a coach and I can only judge by what I can see from the pros or what his coach says.

Yes he is hitting it in front of him but it is on top of him. He will eventually have a hard time handling heavy balls. He will produce short balls as well. Hope this helps.
 

johndagolfer

Professional
Like most juniors I see he has a better backhand than forehand. The reason I see this is that the tend to use their shoulders a lot more in the backhand while arming too much with the forehand.
 
P

Playnice

Guest
Very modern strokes, smooth and relaxed with good weight distribution, up and across motion and great finish on both sides. This is the result we work for in MTM. I would make him more aware of putting his weight on his outside foot and not stepping in with his left foot on the fh. I would suggest to him he try open stance on the bh as well - with weight on his outside foot up and across to his finish over the shoulder. The big takeback is not helping him at this stage of his game and is causing the timing issue you mentioned. I would suggest to him that he might like to experiment with reducing the big "C" and focus instead on just finding the ball well with his hand and that nice finish. Oscar Wegner's "cone drill" would be very useful for him at this stage. You can e-mail me for details on that drill and others that will help him.

Are you his coach? Very well done to whomever is working with him.
 
Yes he is hitting it in front of him but it is on top of him. He will eventually have a hard time handling heavy balls. He will produce short balls as well. Hope this helps.

Sorry for asking to clarify. What do you mean "but it is on top of him"?
I apologize English is my second language.:(
 
Very modern strokes, smooth and relaxed with good weight distribution, up and across motion and great finish on both sides. This is the result we work for in MTM. I would make him more aware of putting his weight on his outside foot and not stepping in with his left foot on the fh. I would suggest to him he try open stance on the bh as well - with weight on his outside foot up and across to his finish over the shoulder. The big takeback is not helping him at this stage of his game and is causing the timing issue you mentioned. I would suggest to him that he might like to experiment with reducing the big "C" and focus instead on just finding the ball well with his hand and that nice finish. Oscar Wegner's "cone drill" would be very useful for him at this stage. You can e-mail me for details on that drill and others that will help him.

Are you his coach? Very well done to whomever is working with him.

Thanks, yes I'd like to know about those drills.
Well, I need to be coached my self:)
so I wouldn't call myself a coach, probably a tennis partner, I watch online videos from several web portals out there and then work with him to best of knowledge and understanding of the concept. In the meantime yes, he gets a private tennis lesson with the coach once a week and clinic with big kids.
I normally make sure to ask specific details about certain technique to make sure I'm not doing any thing wrong.
 
Very modern strokes, smooth and relaxed with good weight distribution, up and across motion and great finish on both sides. This is the result we work for in MTM. I would make him more aware of putting his weight on his outside foot and not stepping in with his left foot on the fh. I would suggest to him he try open stance on the bh as well - with weight on his outside foot up and across to his finish over the shoulder. The big takeback is not helping him at this stage of his game and is causing the timing issue you mentioned. I would suggest to him that he might like to experiment with reducing the big "C" and focus instead on just finding the ball well with his hand and that nice finish. Oscar Wegner's "cone drill" would be very useful for him at this stage. You can e-mail me for details on that drill and others that will help him.

Are you his coach? Very well done to whomever is working with him.

I'm sorry as I'm new here I don't see an option to send you a PMessage with my email for the drills reference.
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Oh look another promotional post brought to you by MTM.

Amazing, you guys cannot give anyone advice on here without mentioning MTM and Oscar Wegner can you? Give it a shot, and there's a good chance people will accept you as being part of the TT community. Imagine that.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Sorry for asking to clarify. What do you mean "but it is on top of him"?
I apologize English is my second language.:(

He means that the boy is setting up too close to the ball making his swing a bit cramped. In addition, he's also hitting it late. I would also like to see a consistent open stance on the FH where his weight transfers from the right foot across to the left foot. That weight transfer might also help create more room for his swing.
 
Like most juniors I see he has a better backhand than forehand. The reason I see this is that the tend to use their shoulders a lot more in the backhand while arming too much with the forehand.

Probably you are correct. However, in this video the goal was to keep the ball close to the service box line as close as possible and that's why he wasn't using full shoulder rotation on his forehands, otherwise he would be hitting harder. Still yet it could probably be adjusted with slower swing in this case.
Normally if he hits withing kids size tennis court he rotates his upper body more on the forehand side.
Good point though, I just didn't think about taking a video of normal hitting which I should in this case we could take a look at a normal strokes production.
Oh well, I'll be thinking better next time.
Thanks
 
He means that the boy is setting up too close to the ball making his swing a bit cramped. In addition, he's also hitting it late. I would also like to see a consistent open stance on the FH where his weight transfers from the right foot across to the left foot. That weight transfer might also help create more room for his swing.

Point is taken, now I completely understand. As far as open stance his coach says he wouldn't recommend open stance at this age just yet.
He wants him to develop a neutral stance first.
 
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tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Your son does hit the ball late a lot of the time, however in my view it is not because of his hands but because of his feet. Tennis is 80% footwork, and from watching your video it is something your son will need to work on a fair bit.
He doesn't react quick enough and doesn't set up his body for the shot. Your feet set up your contact point and this is what I would work on with him. I do like where his strokes are going. Some mentioned his backswing might be a bit too big but thats just him lacking a bit of strength right now which is fine.
 
Your son does hit the ball late a lot of the time, however in my view it is not because of his hands but because of his feet. Tennis is 80% footwork, and from watching your video it is something your son will need to work on a fair bit.
He doesn't react quick enough and doesn't set up his body for the shot. Your feet set up your contact point and this is what I would work on with him. I do like where his strokes are going. Some mentioned his backswing might be a bit too big but thats just him lacking a bit of strength right now which is fine.

I agree on the importance of the footwork and yes the kid needs to learn how to move which is something that we started working on more and more. And sure enough we can see the improvement right away. I initially thought that we needed to learn proper strokes and once it is achieved move to footwork paterns so there wont be any confusions for him. So now he does a split step every time and moving to the ball a lot better. He just hasnt been playing long enough but sure enough he is not getting jammed as much as he used to.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Point is taking, now I completely understand. As far as open stance his coach says he wouldn't recommend open stance at this age just yet.
He wants him to develop a neutral stance first.

With respect to his coach, I could not disagree more. A neutral stance on FH has always been a falacy, a technical defect. There is no reason to hit a forehand with a neutral stance if you have the time and ability to set up in an open stance. It is all the more defective with modern stroke production. IMO, it is much more difficult to make contact out front, and IMPOSSIBLE to fully rotate the upper body and properly finish the stroke, from a neutral stance. Further, teaching him defective technique now will make it all the more difficult to change it later.
 
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tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
I agree on the importance of the footwork and yes the kid needs to learn how to move which is something that we started working on more and more. And sure enough we can see the improvement right away. I initially thought that we needed to learn proper strokes and once it is achieved move to footwork paterns so there wont be any confusions for him. So now he does a split step every time and moving to the ball a lot better. He just hasnt been playing long enough but sure enough he is not getting jammed as much as he used to.

Its difficult to give an accurate assessment from such a short video and only seeing one small aspect of his whole game. I was commenting on what I saw, nothing more.

I think the kid is doing well. It is difficult to teach multiple things at once, especially to small kids. His game will look incomplete and have holes in it for a while still but as you know it all comes together in the end. I like his footwork, but at times he just stands there and relies on his hands. This causes him to be too close to the ball or hit it late. He is young and hasn't been playing for a while, and like you said you worked on technique first which is fine. You guys got the right approach. Would be great to see additional videos of him in the future to see the progress.
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
With respect to his coach, I could not disagree more. A neutral stance on FH has always been a falacy, a technical defect. There is no reason to hit a forehand with a neutral stance if you have the time and ability to set up in an open stance. It is all the more defective with modern stroke production. IMO, it is much more difficult to make contact out front, and IMPOSSIBLE to fully rotate the upper body and properly finish the stroke, from a neutral stance. Further, teaching him defective technique now will make it all the more difficult to change it later.

That depends, several top coaches I've talked to teach both semi-open and neutral stances for the forehand however they are situation specific. For example, deeper balls, out wide go semi open. If you gotta move into the ball, move forward before you set, neutral or semi-open as well depending on the ball, your intention and court positioning.

Open to me is feet parallel with baseline, so I like to use the term semi-open, loading on the right leg etc.

A player should be able to use both neutral and semi-open, as hitting from only open stances is limiting. If a coach wants to first teach neutral then semi-open I think thats ok.
 
With respect to his coach, I could not disagree more. A neutral stance on FH has always been a falacy, a technical defect. There is no reason to hit a forehand with a neutral stance if you have the time and ability to set up in an open stance. It is all the more defective with modern stroke production. IMO, it is much more difficult to make contact out front, and IMPOSSIBLE to fully rotate the upper body and properly finish the stroke, from a neutral stance. Further, teaching him defective technique now will make it all the more difficult to change it later.

Thanks for your input. Let me ask you one question here. what is your take on two handed backhand stance. Do you recomend an open stance as well?
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
That depends, several top coaches I've talked to teach both semi-open and neutral stances for the forehand however they are situation specific. Deeper balls, out wide go semi open. If you gotta move into the ball, move forward before you set, its a bit more neutral or can be semi-open as well.

Open to me is feet parallel with baseline, so I like to use the term semi-open, loading on the right leg etc.

A player should be able to use both neutral and semi-open, as hitting from only open stances is limiting. If a coach wants to first teach neutral then semi-open I think thats ok.

I agree with you. Hitting on the run laterally out wide is a big exception to an open stance. Moving in can make it difficult to set up with an open stance, especially when taking low balls. But, IMO, it's still preferable if you have time to do it. Also, I use the term open stance to mean anything from 45-90 degrees from the target.
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Overall at this stage of his development his strokes look good. However his backswing, esp. on the FH, is too long. As a result his timing is sometimes off and there is a hitch. Unless he fixes this I don't see him winning any Wimbledons or USO's in the future. 7 FO's maybe, but not Wimbledon or USO.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for your input. Let me ask you one question here. what is your take on two handed backhand stance. Do you recomend an open stance as well?

IMO, and the general consensus is that, a neutral stance is optimal for a 2hb. But, an open stance is sometimes necessary when rushed. On a 1hb, it is optimal to hit from a closed stance.

PS: By closed I mean where the front foot is closer to the side fence than the back foot. I don't mean paralllel to the baseline.
 
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Its difficult to give an accurate assessment from such a short video and only seeing one small aspect of his whole game. I was commenting on what I saw, nothing more.

I think the kid is doing well. It is difficult to teach multiple things at once, especially to small kids. His game will look incomplete and have holes in it for a while still but as you know it all comes together in the end. I like his footwork, but at times he just stands there and relies on his hands. This causes him to be too close to the ball or hit it late. He is young and hasn't been playing for a while, and like you said you worked on technique first which is fine. You guys got the right approach. Would be great to see additional videos of him in the future to see the progress.

Oh, we are good. Trust me I came here to get an honest opinion and critique to open up my eyes on what we need to be concentrating on. As far as this short video assessment then I agree with you 100% it's almost impossible to get a whole picture, so you are cool. As far as his inconsistency in the footwork then I see it as well I just don't know how to fix it. Any advice here???
It's tough to explain a 7-year old kid things that are very important as he isn't just old enough to understand what he is doing right or wrong. Thanks a lot.
 
Overall at this stage of his development his strokes look good. However his backswing, esp. on the FH, is too long. As a result his timing is sometimes off and there is a hitch. Unless he fixes this I don't see him winning any Wimbledons or USO's in the future. 7 FO's maybe, but not Wimbledon or USO.

Thanks for the comment. Just to make sure I understood you are you calling a long backswing a hitch?
We had a real hitch a few months ago when his backswing wasn't quite fluid as he had a pause in his take back. Well, we've fixed that with swinging with both hands on the FH which immeadiatelly fixed that. Now, I'm trying to fix his backswing to make it a liitle more compact by shadowing and tracing his racquet to memorize the movement, not sure how what else to try.
It's hard to explain him as he is asking me Why do you change me every week? Now just to make sure in my view Federer and Djokovic have a much longer take back compare to Agassi. TIA.
 
IMO, and the general consensus is that, a neutral stance is optimal for a 2hb. But, an open stance is sometimes necessary when rushed. On a 1hb, it is optimal to hit from a closed stance.

PS: By closed I mean where the front foot is closer to the side fence than the back foot. I don't mean paralllel to the baseline.

Ok, I'm glad we are on the same page. So he still needs to learn both stances.
 
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Maybe because I'm new here I don't have enough privileges yet. Please feel free to send me a private message and I'll reply promptly. Thanks
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Ok, I'm glad we are on the same page. So he still needs to learn both stances.

That's not what I'm saying. On the BH, the neutral stance is primary and that's what a beginner should learn first. On the FH, the open stance is primary and that's what a beginner should learn first. A beginner should learn the primary techniques before learning the secondary, specialty techniques.

To be clear, I see absolutely no good, and potentially a lot of harm, in teaching a beginner to hit with a FH with a neutral stance before he has mastered an open stance FH.
 
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D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
Thanks for the comment. Just to make sure I understood you are you calling a long backswing a hitch?
We had a real hitch a few months ago when his backswing wasn't quite fluid as he had a pause in his take back. Well, we've fixed that with swinging with both hands on the FH which immeadiatelly fixed that. Now, I'm trying to fix his backswing to make it a liitle more compact by shadowing and tracing his racquet to memorize the movement, not sure how what else to try.
It's hard to explain him as he is asking me Why do you change me every week? Now just to make sure in my view Federer and Djokovic have a much longer take back compare to Agassi. TIA.

What I meant was that (1)his backswing is too long and (2)he still has a hitch sometimes where he pauses in his backswing. He needs a more fluid backswing where his racket is taken back by rotating his core and the racket goes along with it (like Fed and Djoko), instead of arms lifting the racket back which can cause inconsistent backswings with a hitch.
 
What I meant was that (1)his backswing is too long and (2)he still has a hitch sometimes where he pauses in his backswing. He needs a more fluid backswing where his racket is taken back by rotating his core and the racket goes along with it (like Fed and Djoko), instead of arms lifting the racket back which can cause inconsistent backswings with a hitch.

Ok, thanks, now I understand what you are talking about. I'll take a close look at it.
 
P

Playnice

Guest
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tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Oh, we are good. Trust me I came here to get an honest opinion and critique to open up my eyes on what we need to be concentrating on. As far as this short video assessment then I agree with you 100% it's almost impossible to get a whole picture, so you are cool. As far as his inconsistency in the footwork then I see it as well I just don't know how to fix it. Any advice here???
It's tough to explain a 7-year old kid things that are very important as he isn't just old enough to understand what he is doing right or wrong. Thanks a lot.

That's easy, especially at his age. Hand fed drills are the best. They'll allow precise control for the coach over the drill and make the little guy work. Look into X pattern drills, or any up and back type drills. The Spanish are great at these and there are a ton of video examples on Youtube. I'd suggest any video from Sanchez-Casal Academy or Emilio Sanchez.
Here is a good example where you can start. I've used this one on kids his age, just modify it and do it from the service line or just behind it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpA-BTs0YQQ

Pay attention to how me moves towards the ball and sets up and just as importantly how he recovers. You don't have to go in depth in explanations as the drill will teach him on its own that he's gotta move the right way.

EDIT:
Here are more great examples, and all drills can be modified for all levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbXWfACf2M
 
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Playnice

Guest
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peoplespeace

Professional
Oh look another promotional post brought to you by MTM.

Amazing, you guys cannot give anyone advice on here without mentioning MTM and Oscar Wegner can you? Give it a shot, and there's a good chance people will accept you as being part of the TT community. Imagine that.

Thank u thank u thank u for saying this tennis_balla! I was about to chose between throwing up in my mouth and starting to steam when i read ur alliviating comment!

In addition these exaggeratedly positive comments is a big disservice. As far as i can see this great kid is not hitting above avarage for somebody his age who has played alot for 6 months including with a coach and in clinics. Yes his swing looks nice but as has been pointed out on 90% of his shots his contact point is much too close to his body. This is not an easy habit to get rid of as he gets bigger and stronger and the temptation to arm the ball gets greater. I would have him hold the racket with three fingers for a while so that he is forced to generate pace through proper kinetic chain action as well as gravity. Let him hit under the ball in the beginning to assist in generating ball speed, this will also force him to use pronation so that the ball is not hit out of the court.

Have fun and good luck!
 
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NLBwell

Legend
At his age, the ability to hit with a long smooth swing incorporating the kinetic chain properly is primary. I like the three fingers advice above - it will force him to do things correctly. Oh, yes, drills like the X-drill for footwork.
Don't get into overloading him with changes. He is passionate about the game now, don't nitpick him.
 
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That's easy, especially at his age. Hand fed drills are the best. They'll allow precise control for the coach over the drill and make the little guy work. Look into X pattern drills, or any up and back type drills. The Spanish are great at these and there are a ton of video examples on Youtube. I'd suggest any video from Sanchez-Casal Academy or Emilio Sanchez.
Here is a good example where you can start. I've used this one on kids his age, just modify it and do it from the service line or just behind it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpA-BTs0YQQ

Pay attention to how me moves towards the ball and sets up and just as importantly how he recovers. You don't have to go in depth in explanations as the drill will teach him on its own that he's gotta move the right way.

EDIT:
Here are more great examples, and all drills can be modified for all levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbXWfACf2M

Thanks a lot for the links. Will be going over to implement. I'll try to shoot a couple other videos in slow motion to monitor his progress.
 
Nice job by the community :)

Awesome JOB indeed. I appreciate everyones advice as it helps tremedously.
Thanks everybody for taking your time to view and comment.

We practiced today and I could clearly see all the flows people highlighted.

As we had him hitting hand fed balls while keeping his racquet back in the right position on his FH the result was incredible. He was hitting the balls cleanly and well out front and away from his body, although once in a while he was trying to go back and take his too far. Next step would be to have him memorize correct motion so he can hit the full swing.

Thansk everybody here.
We'll keep working and I'll post another video shortly to monitor his progress.
 
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