Poly @ HIGH tensions perform amazing for some

[Fuji]

I really wonder how many rec players do use enough racket head speed to really benefit from strings snapping back. I also believe that the snap back theory is overblown.

The bite of the strings into the ball with fast racket head speed is what I believe creates the most spin. I have used kevlar hybrids that have syn. gut x's and in no time at all I will have the mains moved with big gaps and they stay there until I push them back, but yet I can get a lot of spin with those mains not snapping back in the least.

I have done this with worn out multi jobs that were all separated with big gaps and stuck in that position but yet could still get a lot of spin. It is hard to believe for the small amount of time that the ball is on the strings that the strings snapping back can effect the spin that much. Not saying that it doesn't add any spin but I don't think it is the main contributor.

In all honestly, not very many rec players have enough bat speed to create snapback on strings. You need to be swinging fairly quickly to really wear bend poly. I'd wager that most people below 4.0 don't generate enough RHS to really create snapback on their groundstrokes. You start to notice it (with poly especially) that the strings start to groove where you hit the ball (normally sweetspot area) and they begin to notch. In my normal racket, 99S, the strings snapback so much that I have notching after about 2 hours of hitting in the sweetspot.

The issue I find when using syngut/multi is that when there are gaps in the string bed, it just causes inconsistencies in trajectory which is annoying. You still get spin, but it's not a consistent spin, since the ball is grabbing a different "pattern" each time. Just my own experience, YMMV though.

-Fuji

 

[Doubles]

Is that really a plausible explanation? He obviously uses it because it gives him maximum spin, just like the ultra-stiff high-friction duralast gave him max spin before he swtched to RPM

The only person it's obvious to is you.

 

[Nostradamus]

Lower tension---good ball pocketing. High tension--No ball pocketing

In response to all the naysayers who belittle and ridicule other players using poly's at high tensions I needed to post a thread to clarify a few things surrounding this contentious issue.

Firstly, polyester strings are for control, they're primarily designed for people who either break multi's and/or can't keep the ball in the court with their full swings. We can all agree on that can't we?

Secondly, I've often come across speculation that poly's were 'designed' to work best in the 40-50 pound range, and stringing any higher will 'ruin' the intended effects of the string and those of us who choose to ramp up the tension to hike up the control factor apparently should be using synthetic guts because 'poly mustn't be for us'.

It's utter nonsense - polyester strings are 'dead' by their very nature, and to some of us (big hitting players, shotmakers etc) we need as much raw control as possible to improve our accuracy - we're all individuals and we all hit the ball at different trajectories, we all have a different 'feel' for the game and we all prefer different string set-ups.

I play a full-bed of Isospeed Black Fire 17 @ 68/66 pounds in a 16X19 string pattern and LOVE IT.

never had any problems with my elbow or shoulder from my high tension escapades.

I have tried Pro Hurr Tour at 60-62 lbs and also tried it at 50 lbs and it has MUCH MUCH better control at 50 lbs. Here is why.

At 60-62 lbs, PHT has almost NO ball pocketing. it was like a board. This is where WEIRD happened. Board like string bed, you think will give you more control. Well, Opposite was true. I had NO idea how far the ball would carry and how much power. Ball would go long by 2 feet and on the next shot, it would fall short on the service line, with same swing. VERY odd.

But then when I strung it at 50 lbs, Ball pocketing increased 2-3 fold. and the Control increased 2-3 fold. I had great feel for how far the ball would travel and how much spin I can generate. so does Ball pocketing mean ball Control ????????????????????????????

Some would say yes and some would say no. but in case of polys like Pro hurr tour, it is a definite YES.

 

[Xonemains]

Hey X1, long time no see! Don't know how long I'm sticking with this thread, as spoon feeding information to people who clearly don't want it, is a fool's errand. But thanks for the kudos none the less. You still rockin with the P1?

No worries Jack, still rocking with the P1's.

Just waiting for Donnay to make a capped version to make it stiffer
(in my dreams, lol)

 

[Rabe87]

Nadal. Fed. 16/19. Of the top ten there are probably more 16/19 than denser.
But. When the current top pros were developing there was not any 14/16 frames. So it stands to reason (something you obviously lack wearing a tinfoil cap) that they would not be using such a drastic racket.
Spin is not an issue for the top players. If you could actually play tennis you would know this.
If you hit the ball hard enough the strings move and snap back. You can hear it and feel it. Your girly pushing does not make your strings do this which is why you are in disbelief.
Hit the ball hard and you will hear and feel the snap back.
Your just not swinging fast enough.

I truly do make a career out of shutting every one of your comments down, no the majority of the top ten do not use 16 x 19 - pro's using a particular racquet dont use the stock version with the same retail specs, shock horror! Have i blown your belief system right out of the water there?

Simply google the players and look at their racquets close up, Djok Fed Mur Berdych etc use 18x20 even Victoria Azarenka does.

 

[arche3]

I truly do make a career out of shutting every one of your comments down, no the majority of the top ten do not use 16 x 19 - pro's using a particular racquet dont use the stock version with the same retail specs, shock horror! Have i blown your belief system right out of the water there?

Simply google the players and look at their racquets close up, Djok Fed Mur Berdych etc use 18x20 even Victoria Azarenka does.

Last I checked fed and rafa used 16/19. I think murry is as well now. But not sure. Your really clueless. What does the exact model of racket have to do with string pattern? Fed and rafa use 16/19. Regardless of racket.

Swing harder. String snaps back.

Did you really think polys didnt move back and forth?

Not much of a career you have going. Lmao.

 

[Fuji]

I truly do make a career out of shutting every one of your comments down, no the majority of the top ten do not use 16 x 19 - pro's using a particular racquet dont use the stock version with the same retail specs, shock horror! Have i blown your belief system right out of the water there?

Simply google the players and look at their racquets close up, Djok Fed Mur Berdych etc use 18x20 even Victoria Azarenka does.

These players in the Top 10 Use 16x19:

1) Rafa
2) Fed
3) Berdych
4) Tsonga
5) Murray
6) Warwrinka (16x20)
7) Gasquet

So 70% of the top 10 use 16 main rackets... The only ones who use 18x20 are Djoker, Ferrer, and Del Potro.

-Fuji

 

[arche3]

How can r87 deny facts and keep spewing his crazy talk. How can he count 18 when everyone else in the world counts 16? How I ask you? Lol.

 

[arche3]

Hey r87. You know how to get the ultimate stiff string bed for your girly game? Use a giant 27 inch ping pong paddle. Lol.

 

[tkoziol]

So wait is this guy saying that Polys don't move? Or is he saying that they DO move, but that movement (snap back) is not what creates the spin?

Either way he's wrong. I just wanna know what kinda crazy I'm dealing with here...

 

[Doubles]

I truly do make a career out of shutting every one of your comments down, no the majority of the top ten do not use 16 x 19 - pro's using a particular racquet dont use the stock version with the same retail specs, shock horror! Have i blown your belief system right out of the water there?

Simply google the players and look at their racquets close up, Djok Fed Mur Berdych etc use 18x20 even Victoria Azarenka does.

2 top 10 players use 18x20's. everyone else uses 16x18 or 16x19. Please, please, please check your facts before you sound like an idiot again.

 

[Doubles]

These players in the Top 10 Use 16x19:

1) Rafa
2) Fed
3) Berdych
4) Tsonga
5) Murray
6) Warwrinka (16x20)
7) Gasquet

So 70% of the top 10 use 16 main rackets... The only ones who use 18x20 are Djoker, Ferrer, and Del Potro.

-Fuji

Doesn't Ferrer use a 16x18?

 

[arche3]

So wait is this guy saying that Polys don't move? Or is he saying that they DO move, but that movement (snap back) is not what creates the spin?

Either way he's wrong. I just wanna know what kinda crazy I'm dealing with here...

I think he thinks both. They dont move at all and they don't snap if they do.... ? I'm not sure at this point. Guy is cray cray.

 

[arche3]

Big hitta boss! Where da bigg hittasz at?

 

[Fuji]

Doesn't Ferrer use a 16x18?

I wasn't sure to be honest! I haven't looked at up close pictures of his rackets since he switched to the EX03 Paintjob.

Either way, as you pointed out its now 80% of the top 10 use open patterns. :razz:

-Fuji

 

[arche3]

Maybe r87 just needs to go to school to learn to count? English might be his second language. His first language is tinfoil hat speak. In tinfoil hat speak 18 means 16. It's code so "They" can't figure out the location of his secret base.

 

[mikeler]

I wasn't sure to be honest! I haven't looked at up close pictures of his rackets since he switched to the EX03 Paintjob.

Either way, as you pointed out its now 80% of the top 10 use open patterns. :razz:

-Fuji

Looks like 16x18:

 

[pug]

If snap back plays no part in spin production for upper level players, then why was spaghetti stringing banned? It seems that was what contibuted to the massive spin production.

 

[bkr]

This is an interesting thread about high tensions for open string patterns.

Interested to know different experiences on going to high poly tensions on pretty open pettern racquets like PureAero to add control.

 

[Shroud]

This is an interesting thread about high tensions for open string patterns.

Interested to know different experiences on going to high poly tensions on pretty open pettern racquets like PureAero to add control.

Low tensions say sub 60 dont work for me that well. Usually do kev/poly at 86/86. When did full poly in my profile 2.7 110" i used rpm blast team i think at 64/64 and should have gone higher

 

[bkr]

Low tensions say sub 60 dont work for me that well. Usually do kev/poly at 86/86. When did full poly in my profile 2.7 110" i used rpm blast team i think at 64/64 and should have gone higher

Good to know as I haven't gone higher than 59lbs on my Head Grpahene Instinct which is a powerful frame aka Pure drive type.

I'm always worried about poly's at high tension as we see lot of posts about injuries but as someone pointed out one needs to look at string pattern and other variables.High poly tensions on open string patterns may not be that bad atleast I'm not feeling it on my Instinct at 12oz,330sw strung with Hyper G 16g at 59lbs.

Looking at pros that have used the polys at high tensions seems to confirm this.Some of them full poly setup esp Monfils at 57lb on a Blade probably equivalent to high 60's on my very open Instinct.Also Nalbandia 64 lbs on 16*20 pattern is really high as well.

David Nalbandian Yonex VCore 98D,Luxilon Big Banger Original 64lbs
Garbine Muguruza Babolat Pure Drive,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 60lbs
Andy Murray Head Graphene XT Radical Pro,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power/Babolat VS Touch 62lbs
Serena Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs,Venus Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs
Paul-Henri Mathieu Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 62lbs
Gaël Monfils Prince Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 57/55lbs
John Isner Prince Textreme Warrior 100,Tecnifibre Pro RedCode 62lbs

 

[Shroud]

Good to know as I haven't gone higher than 59lbs on my Head Grpahene Instinct which is a powerful frame aka Pure drive type.

I'm always worried about poly's at high tension as we see lot of posts about injuries but as someone pointed out one needs to look at string pattern and other variables.High poly tensions on open string patterns may not be that bad atleast I'm not feeling it on my Instinct at 12oz,330sw strung with Hyper G 16g at 59lbs.

Looking at pros that have used the polys at high tensions seems to confirm this.Some of them full poly setup esp Monfils at 57lb on a Blade probably equivalent to high 60's on my very open Instinct.Also Nalbandia 64 lbs on 16*20 pattern is really high as well.

David Nalbandian Yonex VCore 98D,Luxilon Big Banger Original 64lbs
Garbine Muguruza Babolat Pure Drive,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 60lbs
Andy Murray Head Graphene XT Radical Pro,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power/Babolat VS Touch 62lbs
Serena Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs,Venus Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs
Paul-Henri Mathieu Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 62lbs
Gaël Monfils Prince Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 57/55lbs
John Isner Prince Textreme Warrior 100,Tecnifibre Pro RedCode 62lbs

Nice data. Thanks for posting.

Its a guess but those racquets all have a higher sw than what most rec players use. iME high SW needs higher tensions to retain control. I certainly need them to keep the ball in with the high sw racquets i use. And my 2 cents is that higher sw racquets are usually more arm friendly than lower sw racquets. So i can see the pros using higer tensions and being ok doing so

 

[DrumWizOHBD]

Good to know as I haven't gone higher than 59lbs on my Head Grpahene Instinct which is a powerful frame aka Pure drive type.

David Nalbandian Yonex VCore 98D,Luxilon Big Banger Original 64lbs
Garbine Muguruza Babolat Pure Drive,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 60lbs
Andy Murray Head Graphene XT Radical Pro,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power/Babolat VS Touch 62lbs
Serena Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs,Venus Williams Wilson Blade 104,Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon 4G 66lbs
Paul-Henri Mathieu Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 62lbs
Gaël Monfils Prince Wilson Blade 98,Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power 57/55lbs
John Isner Prince Textreme Warrior 100,Tecnifibre Pro RedCode 62lbs

I thought Nalbandian strung his Yonex 40-44 lbs, no???

 

[bkr]

Agree, High SWs are needed to go along with high tensions to avoid injuries.Also it seems high tensions on spin effect frames also might work and not hurt arm as someone mentioned in this board.

 

[Shroud]

Agree, High SWs are needed to go along with high tensions to avoid injuries.Also it seems high tensions on spin effect frames also might work and not hurt arm as someone mentioned in this board.

Yep! Though for me, my 14/16 warrior is not tight enough even at kev/poly at 86lbs. I need to put in kevlar crosses i think!!

 

[Shroud]

Here is a post that extolls the virtues of stiff stringbeds, which poly at high tensions woukd definitely be

If your stringbed is a little soft, then your slices might float up because the incoming ball will always have topspin due to the friction from the bounce, which will cause the ball to pop up with high rebound angle off the stringbed.

If your stringbed is stiff and firm, the rebound angle will be less sensitive to the incoming spin rate.

The reason why softer stringbeds are more sensitive to incoming spin rate is threefold:
1. The deeper the ball pockets into the stringbed, the longer the moment arm that places a torque on your racquet and twists it during the impact.
2. The longer the dwell time, the the more time there is for the ball to twist the racquet during impact.
3. The more the ball dents into the stringbed, the more the angle of the force vector applied to the center of ball depends on the incoming spin. If the stringbed is perfectly rigid like a wall (ideal case), the force vector applied to the ball is perfectly normal to the plane of the stringbed, giving excellent control almost independent of incoming spin rate, and the lateral force vector from the oblique impact goes entirely into spin (which is desirable for control).

The lower the hitting weight (and twistweight), the more factors 1 and 2 above come into effect.

Larger stringbeds and stiffer frames tend to have louder pings, in my experience.

 

[Aloysius]

Honestly, different strokes for different folks, isn't it? My opinion is that there could be two distinct categories - those who hit the tennis ball like a baseball bat and those who prefer to "catch" it with a bouncy net.

I'm guessing many are gonna laugh at this.

 

[Shroud]

Honestly, different strokes for different folks, isn't it? My opinion is that there could be two distinct categories - those who hit the tennis ball like a baseball bat and those who prefer to "catch" it with a bouncy net.

I'm guessing many are gonna laugh at this.

Yep. Put me in the baseball camp

 

[bkr]

Someone posted Stan's specs and he is stringing RPM Blast 16G at 62/58lbs which is okay as he is at 360SW and 370grms total weight.I think the point to note is this would be a stiffer bed in his Yonex 95d 16*20 frame.

Lot of OP views are in line with the pro setups.It seems he is not posting anymore no surprise considering lot of folks went against his views.I hope there is better understanding and respect for others point of views even though we may not agree with and this only helps to think outside the box.

 

[zalive]

Here is a post that extolls the virtues of stiff stringbeds, which poly at high tensions woukd definitely be

I suspect there's something additional too which travelerjam didn't mention.

With softer string beds more pocketing of course means more string displacement prior to snapback. More string displacement brings also both higher launch angle and less predictability. But even if predictability remains about the same, the mere fact that more difference in pocketing with different situations will bring more variance in launch angle (especially when ball is hit in the spot with less dense pattern, or inconsistently on various spots at the hoop with a racquet which pattern changes to a lot more open towards the tip) will leave us less used to the launch angle. And the mere fact is that higher launch angle by itself is an enemy to slicing while you want to control it and keep it reasonably low.

This is what I experience especially with Destiny setup if using full bed of Isospeed Cream. While at the net, if incoming ball is hit hard, there's too much displacement of strings on impact and rebound ball jumps with higher launch angle than I wanted to produce, easily floating out. The guilt is on Cream's slickness in combo with Destiny's head width. It's better with Yonex PTP on mains and Cream on crosses and yet better with full bed of YPTP, which seems to displace harder on volley situation. At the same time Cream is not softer than YPTP by itself, just slicker.

Racquets with narrower heads and generally smaller head size seem to more easily put things here under control. Using the same tension they offer higher string bed stiffness, so the efect is similar as if tensions were higher. Shorter strings also generally bring less string displacement.

 

[antony]

In response to all the naysayers who belittle and ridicule other players using poly's at high tensions I needed to post a thread to clarify a few things surrounding this contentious issue.

Firstly, polyester strings are for control, they're primarily designed for people who either break multi's and/or can't keep the ball in the court with their full swings. We can all agree on that can't we?

Secondly, I've often come across speculation that poly's were 'designed' to work best in the 40-50 pound range, and stringing any higher will 'ruin' the intended effects of the string and those of us who choose to ramp up the tension to hike up the control factor apparently should be using synthetic guts because 'poly mustn't be for us'.

It's utter nonsense - polyester strings are 'dead' by their very nature, and to some of us (big hitting players, shotmakers etc) we need as much raw control as possible to improve our accuracy - we're all individuals and we all hit the ball at different trajectories, we all have a different 'feel' for the game and we all prefer different string set-ups.

I play a full-bed of Isospeed Black Fire 17 @ 68/66 pounds in a 16X19 string pattern and LOVE IT.

I've tried every poly under the sun, from 35 pounds to 55, ensuring I didn't traipse into the 60 territory for fear of breaking a cardinal stringing sin - until I realised there wasn't one.

I'm sure this post will attract a barrage of negativity but the proof is really in the pudding - Azarenka uses ALU Power @ 62 pounds as does Andy Murray, Isner uses Pro Line II @ 66 pounds, and even Bursitis-sufferer Sharapova hikes her tension above 60 in a poly/gut hybrid.

These guys can play better than we can, so why aren't they using poly's as 'nature intended' in the 40-50 range? Also arm problems can be avoided with a shock-shield / soft overgrip, shock absorber and flexy frame, I've never had any problems with my elbow or shoulder from my high tension escapades.

How do you reconcile tennis racquet recommended tension ranges?

 

[ryushen21]

Did you resurrect this thread just because we gave you hard time for stringing at 59?

 

[antony]

Did you resurrect this thread just because we gave you hard time for stringing at 59?

Not just you, but I myself with the strings themselves. I've never preferred lower tensions in experimentation and so far higher has been better always (for me). I was wondering why people prefer one tension over another and found this thread, and I resurrected it because that specific post made me wonder about exceeding a racquet's recommended tension range.

 

[Shroud]

Not just you, but I myself with the strings themselves. I've never preferred lower tensions in experimentation and so far higher has been better always (for me). I was wondering why people prefer one tension over another and found this thread, and I resurrected it because that specific post made me wonder about exceeding a racquet's recommended tension range.

I have exceeded the rec tension on bunches of racquets. I always string at 86lbs. Only one frames had issues with that. It was a close out deal so maybe that was it. Otherwise over 20 different frames were strung way over the manufactures rec range. Every other model was fine, even 30 year old Profiles.

 

[antony]

I have exceeded the rec tension on bunches of racquets. I always string at 86lbs. Only one frames had issues with that. It was a close out deal so maybe that was it. Otherwise over 20 different frames were strung way over the manufactures rec range. Every other model was fine, even 30 year old Profiles.

what do you like about stringing that high?

and nice, found some info on stringing above recommended tension

The knowledgeable Physicists who published the book " The Physics and Technology of Tennis" did quite a bit of string testing. In chapter 30, String Properties, they measured the peak impact tension (simulated with the force of a 120mph serve) of 89 strings and produced a chart showing the peak tension vs the different strings. Gut string peaked at under 80 pounds, nylons peaked from approx 85 to 95 pounds, polyesters peaked from 90 to 100 pounds and kevlars from 125 to 155 pounds. Average tension rise was 20 lbs for gut, 40 lbs for nylons, 50 lbs for polyesters, and 90 lbs for kevlars.

The frame designers look at the worst case and would design extra margin for someone using kevlar strings - so peak frame forces of greater than 160 pounds would be expected for the strings in contact with the ball. For a nylon string to exceed 160 pounds peak force you would have to string it at over 120 pounds. So even strung at 88 pounds (another thread) , the peak forces put on the frame don't come close to what happens with kevlar strings.

edit: found it

Yo your dream is crashing! I prestretch and string at 86/86. Often i restring crosses due to tensions loss. A viscious prestretch where the string permanently elongates is a must imho and i prestretch everything these days

But its all initial really so after the 2nd outing its pretty stable.

Alternately you could install string savers.

 

[EasternRocks]

Never have been able to go above 55 on any poly even the softest poly I’ve ever played with in a full bed and that’s PTP yellow 120.