POSTURE PROBLEMS - that you have improved or corrected?

[Chas Tennis]

I have had some miscellaneous posture problems that I've improved and, in a few cases, corrected by stretching and strengthening. With some posture issues, there's been little progress.

1) tight rectus femorus (a quad muscle) - stretched considerably but still needs work. Patellofemoral pain improved. Corrected associated anterior pelvic tilt. Approved during physical therapy.

2) tight piriformis - stretched some but still needs work. Received physical therapy. Approved during physical therapy.

3) head forward - some small progress stretching, chest up and out, etc. I am not young. I don't believe that the fixes I've seen and tried are effective for this cast-in-concrete posture issue.

4) gluteus medius - progress strengthening, but don't maintain the required strengthening exercises. Part of a physical therapy treatment for knee injuries.

5) tight calves - stretching has worked and a case of PF has not returned. Mild, occasional Achilles pain went away.

6) shoulders forward - considerable progress stretching and strengthening the rhomboids and mid traps (?) needs more work. No shoulder injuries in serving shoulder after decades of tennis.

7) inner hamstring muscle night cramps - I don't know why these occur or which stretches to use, if appropriate, to correct.

I believe that the gluteus medius and piriformis posture issues may have contributed to my knee injuries. The knees are OK today after a meniscus surgery in 1999 and some non-surgery recoveries.

This website has some excellent illustrations and discussions of my very common posture problems including those listed above.
http://fixtheneck.com/posture.html

I generally find that medical treatments deal more with the immediate injury and I have had ask for posture evaluations. I've been glad that I did.

I believe that my life style - hours spent sitting, sleeping, slouching vs hours playing tennis and other activities - is a very important factor.

I've posted many times in this forum on these posture issues and my experiences with my knee injuries. Without going into more detail for now.

1) What posture deficiencies have you found?

2) If improved or corrected, what did you do? Exercises, stretches, massage, etc.

3) Exercises, stretches, other treatments that are very effective and those that for some reason you wanted to avoid. Why? Uncomfortable, did not seem effective, found better exercise or stretch, caused pain, etc. ?

3) Injuries that you suspect your posture issue might have contributed to?

4) Any references that you have found informative on posture issues, research, treatments, etc.?

5) Any other thoughts on posture and improving it?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I've lost much of the natural cervical curvature in my spine due to whiplash from 2 auto accident, 2-3 decades ago. Not sure that i have actual cervical lordosis tho'. I just came across the following exercise that i will be trying in order to restore the natural curve:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmtfC2b5Rz8

 

[WildVolley]

I have improved my forward head posture and tightness across the back of my neck associated with shoulder problems.

Going to a chiropractor helped me initially reduce pain and gave me exercises, but I quickly decided that the adjustments were not necessary. Instead, exercises had more impact.

I use a neck traction device like you can see in the video posted by SA. I do exercises to put a curve in my neck and retract my head by standing against a wall and sometimes use head weights (hard to get them adjusted correctly).

Also, I put a stand under my computer monitor to help me maintain proper posture while working, I don't hunch over to look at smart phones or tablets and built a holder for my ebook reader so I can lie flat while reading with a neck pillow to allow my neck to naturally be curved and in line with my spine rather than propped forward.

 

[comeback]

check and see if you have Morton's foot (when the 2nd toe is larger than the big toe)..it causes many structural problems ie: back, knees even jaw and headaches.
http://www.mortonsfoot.com/

 

[boramiNYC]

Shoulder and wrist complexes. Had some niggling injury with my wrist and couldn't rest my weight on the right wrist. Now mostly cured and can do hand stand which was unimaginable.

Thoracic spine/ribcage mobility. Significantly improved flexibility here and strength. This area is the cornerstone of the posture and affects shoulder usage, neck angle, lower back, and legs. Basically whole body. To achieve the ribcage expansion and flexibility I had to go through a couple of painful ribcage muscle pulls but totally worth it.

Lower back is more flexible from squatting properly. This took about a year of hard work but improve speed and balance and leg control. Faster footwork for tennis.

Hip complex. Along with lower back experienced significant improvement in flexibility here. Regularly stretch hip flexors and try to maintain proper pelvic tilt at all times. This engages all the muscles correctly. Especially usage of the glutes. Strengthened glute medius significantly. Trust me PT sessions won't help you that much since it take more sophisticated work. And a lot. But once you achieve this you'll be able to stand tall differently and the hip joint can be freed.

Ankle. Significant increase in range of motion and strength. Crucial in balance and big movements like tennis. Some Olympic rowing coaches say the biggest indicator of rowing success is the ankle mobility. Proper squat helps a ton.

Foot muscles. Huge improvement here. Now can use many many more muscles I hadn't used before. Much improvement in footwork, balance, speed, and reflex. When I step on something that hurts, my foot instantly adjusts the weight around to minimize the pain. Pretty amazing.

Knee. Strength and proper extension was improved. People have exaggerated fear of hyper extending the knee and tend to not fully extend the knee. Terrible mistake. Hyperextension is not that common.

Posture issues needs part by part as well as the whole approach.

 

[comeback]

Hip complex. Along with lower back experienced significant improvement in flexibility here. Regularly stretch hip flexors and try to maintain proper pelvic tilt at all times. This engages all the muscles correctly. Especially usage of the glutes. Strengthened glute medius significantly. Trust me PT sessions won't help you that much since it take more sophisticated work. And a lot. But once you achieve this you'll be able to stand tall differently and the hip joint can be freed.
Very well said... but most players seldom work on this aspect t..It's hard and uncomfortable and it took me over a year to get even small results..The Lotus Position is a good indicator of hip flexibility.
https://www.google.com/search?q=the...7LdipyATClICQAw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1252&bih=602
i could not even get near this position but now i come very close..And i went from difficulty running to now running freely without stiffness..

 

[RogueFLIP]

John Barnes Myofascial Release approach.

Postural assessment is a big evaluative tool.

Gentle sustained pressure and stretches (holding things for a minimum of 5 min to engage the collagenous barrier) is key.

Use of muscle energy techniques to trick the nervous system into relaxing contracted tissues can help. Other tools such as wedges and pillows.

You really think that poor posture that you've had for years and years will improve quickly by doing 30 second stretches?

Treat the whole system, not just pieces. Everything's all connected.

I never understood the logic of trying to do resistive exercises to improve posture without first trying to free the body of the soft tissue restrictions that's pulling the body into the poor posture first.

Like the people who say for the anterior tilt of the pelvis, do posterior exercises that engages the hamstrings and gluts.
Analogy: you've got a 50 pound weight on the anterior portion of your body pulling your pelvis into an anterior tilt. The correction is to strengthen the body posteriorly to be able to overcome the front weight. Basically add a 50 pound weight to the back to counter the anterior tilt.

Wouldn't it make more sense to first take OFF the 50 pound weight from the anterior?? THEN IF you still need to add posterior exercises, fine! But then at least you're not fighting the anterior pull.

Pretty much the same for the forward head issue. How much time and energy could you save from all the middle trap and rhomboid work if you identify and freed the restrictions most likely coming from the anterior side that's pulling your head forward in the first place?

 

[Chas Tennis]

.................................................
Gentle sustained pressure and stretches (holding things for a minimum of 5 min to engage the collagenous barrier) is key.

Very interesting. I am beginning to realize some of the significant overall fascia connections as boramiNYC has pointed out. Is that what you mean by the "collagenous barrier"?

......
Use of muscle energy techniques to trick the nervous system into relaxing contracted tissues can help. Other tools such as wedges and pillows.

Another interesting approach.

You really think that poor posture that you've had for years and years will improve quickly by doing 30 second stretches?

Yes, I'm certain in the case of certain posture issues that come especially from lifestyle. If muscles are held in shortened length for many hours of the week and used actively for only a few hours, I believe that specific muscles may tend to be short and tight. I believe that this is exactly the case for my calves, my rectus femorus, and probably my piriformis. Not sure how my lifestyle has affected my piriformis but I believe that it has. ? My lifestyle clearly is associated with my calf and rectus femoris shortness - I hold them in a shortened state much of my week. I point my toes and have my hips flexed sitting and sleeping far too many hours. Corrected with 30 second stretches, each side done twice. Use also stretch , then actively applying force and then stretching father, forget the name (See Stretching Scientifically, Kurz.)

Treat the whole system, not just pieces. Everything's all connected.

Agree with this with the above exceptions.

I never understood the logic of trying to do resistive exercises to improve posture without first trying to free the body of the soft tissue restrictions that's pulling the body into the poor posture first.

Like the people who say for the anterior tilt of the pelvis, do posterior exercises that engages the hamstrings and gluts.
Analogy: you've got a 50 pound weight on the anterior portion of your body pulling your pelvis into an anterior tilt. The correction is to strengthen the body posteriorly to be able to overcome the front weight. Basically add a 50 pound weight to the back to counter the anterior tilt.

Wouldn't it make more sense to first take OFF the 50 pound weight from the anterior?? THEN IF you still need to add posterior exercises, fine! But then at least you're not fighting the anterior pull. ......

Who advocates strengthening?

Stretching the rectus femorus corrected much of my anterior pelvic tilt in perhaps 4-5 weeks. I could see it in the mirror, maybe the top of the pelvis was back about 1". I had noticed my anterior pelvic tilt many years before and thought it was a condition of my aging or body shape. The kinesiology reference, Manual of Structural Kinesiology, says that a large percentage of older people have anterior pelvic tilt. But it is not aging, it is tight rectus femorus muscles and other causes! Not only do you feel better but it looks better as I never liked the look of the anterior pelvic tilt that I saw for many years. A smaller percentage of young people also have anterior pelvic tilt, it's easy to see. My rectus femorus muscles are still too short but the anterior pelvic tilt is much better and past patellofemoral pain is much improved. [The rectus femorus is the only quad muscle that attaches above the hip joint.]
http://www.mrtherapy.com/articles/article3.html

........
Pretty much the same for the forward head issue. How much time and energy could you save from all the middle trap and rhomboid work if you identify and freed the restrictions most likely coming from the anterior side that's pulling your head forward in the first place?

I believe that trap and rhomboid strengthening could be related to head forward (?) but mostly I use those exercises to move my scapulae back, to correct 'rounded shoulders'. Does anyone recommend trap & rhomboid work for head forward? I give some credibility to a book I read that the spine should hold the chest up and out and that is good for correcting head forward. Head forward is a big lifestyle problem with all the slouching and looking down. WildVolley is aware of the lifestyle factor and mentioned some fixes.

 

[torpantennis]

^^Agree, modern sitting oriented lifestyle tends to trigger tightening of rectus femoris/hip flexors, and as a result, it gives anterior pelvic tilt (APT) and back pain. I got through this all at a young age of under 30, ultimately giving so severe back pain that I couldn't walk!

Then I read about pilates, did 3 times a week pilates routine for half a year, and got rid of the back pain. Back then I didn't still realize the cause of the back pain, but now I know that it was APT. When I realized it, I got completely rid of ALL "good posture" sitting in my life. What I mean by "good posture" is sitting back straight up with a 90 degree angle at hips. I realized that the extreme hip angle during sitting had caused all my problems.

I use a kneeling chair instead of normal chair in my work nowadays, try to sit in a backwards sloping style on couch/chairs etc. to minimize hip angle, and as a result, I haven't had any back pain in 6 years! What I've also done is strengthening of posterior leg/hip muscles, to counter shortening of frontal muscles. I feel APT has also decreased, so I think back pains are gone forever.

So my message: Avoid sitting back straight, on a normal chair, at all costs!

 

[Chas Tennis]

How about head forward?

...........................

................................... try to sit in a backwards sloping style on couch/chairs etc. to minimize hip angle, and as a result, I haven't had any back pain in 6 years! ....................................................................
So my message: Avoid sitting back straight, on a normal chair, at all costs!

I don't know about the back issue from sitting up straight but " backwards sloping style on couch/chairs etc." would seems to place the neck in a position that might cause head forward .

 

[torpantennis]

^^Yeah, head forward could be a problem, with sitting in my unorthodox style. But I haven't (yet) got any neck/shoulder problems, so I still sit like this.

But on the long term, I want to get rid of sitting as much as possible. Higher chairs, with a bit of forwards sloping seats, would allow a much gentler sitting posture, with less severe joint angles, resembling standing. Know of any commercial chairs like this?

Another good option is a laying position. Sitting on a chair is really the worst there is for the human body. Wonder why it's so central in our culture?

 

[Chas Tennis]

..............................................
I use a kneeling chair instead of normal chair in my work nowadays, ........................

Any recommendations?

 

[torpantennis]

Any recommendations?

Varier Multi balans is the best I've tried. I was able to test drive it for three months back then. But now I unfortunately use a cheap copy of that.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Kneeling chairs (aka Back chairs or Ergonomic Knee chairs) were quite popular in the 80s. Thinking about getting in the near future. Any thoughts on these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling_chair

 

[torpantennis]

@SA: My kneeling chair is like the one on the right. If you buy one, make sure there's thick layers of memory foam on knee pad and the seat. Normal foam isn't sufficient IMO.

 

[WildVolley]

I believe that trap and rhomboid strengthening could be related to head forward (?) but mostly I use those exercises to move my scapulae back, to correct 'rounded shoulders'. Does anyone recommend trap & rhomboid work for head forward? I give some credibility to a book I read that the spine should hold the chest up and out and that is good for correcting head forward. Head forward is a big lifestyle problem with all the slouching and looking down. WildVolley is aware of the lifestyle factor and mentioned some fixes.

I think that trap and rhomboid strength is related to head forward, along with the whole scapula/rotator cuff system. I got serious about shoulder rehab and head forward after locking up my shoulder and neck (likely ripping something in the rotator cuff) after serving big.

The exercises I've found most helpful are 1) hanging from a bar shoulder width while relaxed (30 second segments), 2) doing pullups, 3) doing deadlifts, and 4) doing rotator cuff work (primarily external rotation work and rowing using exercise tubing).

Hunched forward posture is endemic to the modern lifestyle - just watch people walking down the street hunched over a phone. Tennis can contribute to this imbalance because of the emphasis on internal rotation.

Strengthening my back has allowed me to lessen the hunching forward of my shoulders, lift my chest without strain and I think improved my head position over my neck.

My impression is also that head weights can help improve head forward. The Chiro had evidence of this which I don't think was faked. However, I'm definitely not a fan of regular chiro neck cracking even if it is great at reducing pain in the short-run (the drop in pain and increase in range of motion I experienced after my first adjustment was not a placebo and was very impressive though it faded over time). I believe that specific neck exercises can retract the head if the deterioration in the spine isn't too great.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@SA: My kneeling chair is like the one on the right. If you buy one, make sure there's thick layers of memory foam on knee pad and the seat. Normal foam isn't sufficient IMO.

Thnx for the feedback. Anyone tried a rocking kneeling chair?

​

Ikea may carry a rocker. Here is one for $80:

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/17892336901659116753?q=kneeling+chair+ikea&espv=2&biw=1422&bih=691&ei=S4aPU8yGFM3yoASS54LACQ&ved=0CHEQpiswAA

 

[boramiNYC]

I don't think one sitting posture will solve many problems. Key is restoring mobility/ROM/flexibility of complex joints and learning good form for each dynamic cases. Even if there's a perfect posture if you stay in that posture for too long you become stiff in that posture and could lose mobility. Using full ROM regularly like stretching and swinging motion is important and learning principles of good posture/form for different activities is important.

And

Posterior pelvic tilt is nothing new. It's known as 'hollow' in gymnastics for years and it's important in any activities that require critical balance like hand stand. And of course it'll help tennis since it improves balance. People say lumbar arch/lordosis is a good thing and people overdo it and the lower back becomes tight.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ Saw some reference to anterior pelvic tilt in previous posts but not posterior pelvic tilt. New subject?

I've been experiencing considerable tightness of the psoas/hip flexor. Sitting in conventional chairs bothers it quite a bit. Even after I've been driving my car for 15-20 minutes, I can barely walk unless I stretch the hip flexor after getting out of the car. It looks like the kneeling chair, will be kinder to my psoas/hip flexor. These chairs can also reduce lower back strain by dividing the burden of the weight between the shins/knees & the butt.

"A study from 2008 confirms that ergonomically designed kneeling chairs set at +20 degrees inclination do maintain standing lumbar curvature to a greater extent than sitting on a standard computer chair."

 

[RogueFLIP]

Chas,

The fascia contains elastin and collagen fibers. Collagen has a very strong tensile strength. Your 30 second stretches won't even begin to engage the collagenous barrier.

Kudos to you for getting better doing what you did. I'm not saying that 30 second holds won't get results. I'm contending that you would have corrected your issues faster if you stretched the way I have been suggesting in this post and previous.

Gentle, slow in and out of, softening into it. Minimum of 5 min.

And prob even faster results if you incorporated some soft tissue work like the myofascial release or trigger point to break up the tight tissue along with the stretching.

A lot of traditional physical therapists advocate exercise sized base protocols as the primary means of correcting postural issues. I should know, that's how I was trained. So yes, posterior based exercises for forward head and rounded shoulders are quite the norm in a traditional orthopedic PT setting. Oh you'll get some manual tricks here and there...but the focus is on exercise.

 

[RogueFLIP]

I believe that trap and rhomboid strengthening could be related to head forward (?) but mostly I use those exercises to move my scapulae back, to correct 'rounded shoulders'.

This is my point exactly. Instead of doing exercises to move the scapula back,
shouldn't the question be what's pulling it forward in the first place and correct that?

Again, I want to clarify I'm not anti-exercise or what have you. I'm just saying that identifying and reducing the soft tissue restrictions that are part of the cause of the postural issue will make whatever else you decide to do to "correct" said issue that much more effective.

Say you have a plant that you want to grow. It's planted in concrete. You can water it and feed it and will it grow? Sure, it may.

But change the environment that it's planted in, change the concrete to fertile soil, and will it grow faster? I bet you it will.

And then once you change it to soil then align it properly so it gets sunlight, will it grow even faster? I'll all in for that.

Perhaps if you understand my analogies, you might begin to understand why I'm always advocating soft tissue (fascial) work.

Because the fascia is the environment is which everything in the body is in. There is no system, organ, tissue or cell in the body that is not affected by the fascial system.

 

[RogueFLIP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpUTtFtXXOQ

Starting at 43 seconds in, I use wedges exactly like the one in the video to aid in the correction of anterior pelvic tilt.

Didn't really search long on Youtube though for a more exact process.


About 2 months ago, I landed wrong on my left leg playing a match; no pain, just felt like I landed weird. Finished my match and did my usual post match cool down and stretches.

Woke up feeling miserable. Left SI was in a lot of burning pain with a slight radiating burning pain into my hamstring. Left glut was solid as a rock.
Throughout my work day I tried to stretch and do some trigger point into my symptomatic region and was surprised that it made little headway bc that stuff usually works like a charm for me.

Finally came home and was able to assess myself a bit more and noticed that I had a pretty severe anterior tilt. I was in a lot of pain, and wasn't able to relax so I decided against even gentle stretching bc I knew I wouldn't be able to soften into it.

Decided to use the wedges to help correct the tilt and laid on them on my yoga mat and just let whatever happen happen. Just let my body soften into it. After a bit of time, my body finally softened and something popped. I startled myself and opened my eyes and noticed that 8 minutes had passed.

Reassessed and my pelvis was balanced. Still felt tightness in my glut, but this sensation of pressure in the region had been relieved. And NOW the stretches and trigger point work was much much more effective.

Hurt myself Monday night....felt it most of the day Tuesday....treated and corrected Tuesday night....back to tennis Wednesday....

Probably could've resolved things Tuesday if I didn't have to work and could've just worked on myself.

 

[RogueFLIP]

And just so people are aware, there are many things that the pelvis can do to cause postural issues, not just anterior pelvic tilt.

There's posterior tilt, there's upslips, downslips, flairs inwards and outward just to name a few. Any and all can create issues at the pelvic region and beyond.

Your pelvis is the foundation of the body.

And you can have unilateral and bilateral issues of the pelvis. One side is upslipped while the other side is anteriorly rotated.

With flairs outward...

Lions and tigers and bear oh my!

 

[boramiNYC]

Rogue, that's interesting anecdote. Another thing I noticed over time was my SI joints gained significant mobility from stretching. It added fuller pelvis and legs control. Glutes just work better now.

Agree everything you said about fascia. I gave Chas a taste of Tom Myers' work. I believe the whole coordination business is mainly transmitted by the tensile network of fascial system. Because of this it's important to lengthen the spine and stand tall in general. The tensile network becomes tout and the kinetic chain works best with such tesion. A metal chain links without some tension won't be able to transmit waves effectively. And people always misunderstand tension negatively. Without it the kinetic chain becomes less effective.

 

[RogueFLIP]

I believe that trap and rhomboid strengthening could be related to head forward (?) but mostly I use those exercises to move my scapulae back, to correct 'rounded shoulders'.

This is my point exactly. Instead of doing exercises to move the scapula back,
shouldn't the question be what's pulling it forward in the first place and correct
that?


Repeat from post #21 in case you missed it with all my other ramblings....

 

[Nostradamus]

posture problems are hard to fix. because at work, not all the chairs are ergonomically correct and out of habit, you keep repeating the bad posture that perpetuates the problem

 

[RogueFLIP]

Rogue, that's interesting anecdote. Another thing I noticed over time was my SI joints gained significant mobility from stretching. It added fuller pelvis and legs control. Glutes just work better now.

I remember the first time I did specific SI work all those years ago on myself, I woke up the next morning like I had slept for a week. So much energy!!
Nowadays anytime I encounter any SI specific dysfunction, I almost always find some dysfunction in the iliopsoas region just medial to the ASIS.

Agree everything you said about fascia. I gave Chas a taste of Tom Myers' work. I believe the whole coordination business is mainly transmitted by the tensile network of fascial system. Because of this it's important to lengthen the spine and stand tall in general. The tensile network becomes tout and the kinetic chain works best with such tesion. A metal chain links without some tension won't be able to transmit waves effectively. And people always misunderstand tension negatively. Without it the kinetic chain becomes less effective.

I'm familiar with Tom Myer's very good work. Ida Rolf's philosophy and John Barnes' philosophy on fascia have a lot of similarities and a lot of differences; obviously beyond the topic of this board.

But basically, John believes the fascial system is essentially the main conductor of information for all functions of the body. And where the body's "consciousness" is stored. YMMV

 

[RogueFLIP]

Kneeling chairs (aka Back chairs or Ergonomic Knee chairs) were quite popular in the 80s. Thinking about getting in the near future. Any thoughts on these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling_chair

We use a similar chair at work; except ours can go up/down and swivel.
But like BoramiNYC alluded to, there isn't one "perfect" posture.
Even with these chairs, it's very easy to sit in "bad" posture.

We also use the larger Swiss balls to sit on when at the main desk doing paperwork.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Tried your 5 minute recommendation, umexpected result.

John Barnes Myofascial Release approach.
....................................................................

Gentle sustained pressure and stretches (holding things for a minimum of 5 min to engage the collagenous barrier) is key.

..................................................................................

You really think that poor posture that you've had for years and years will improve quickly by doing 30 second stretches?

............................................................................

.

The idea of a long duration stretch is very interesting. Before I tell my experience with a 5 minute stretch - I like the technique and will be doing it again. I thought that you might have some experience that might bear on what happened to me

Background -

I know that I have tight piriformis muscles. I have stretched them in the past with good results. I don't like some piriformis stretches partly because of my tightness and partly because of the effort. The "Figure 4" that I had used, for example, takes a lot of arm pulling to get much of a stretch. I'm looking for other stretch options.

"Figure 4" stretch that I have used in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxsDfXBDZec

Have not tried this
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Lying-Piriformis-str.htm

Or this - I don't think I'm flexible enough for this one.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Piriformis_str.htm

Another stretch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl474z1bhnk

Just found
http://www.charlottesocceracademy.c...e in Stretching the Hip Piriformis Muscle.pdf

I had found another piriformis stretch - seated, cross the legs, ankle on one knee, and lean forward to feel the piriformis stretch. This allows the body weight to contribute to the stretch. This Youtube shows a way to do it in good form.
Seated Piriformis Stretch, similar to what I did for the the 5 minute stretch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZ517Rw7ME

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Now for my 5 minute stretch experience

I sat in the position with one ankle on the knee (see Seated Piriformis Stretch). I applied very light pressure by leaning forward. I held it for 5 minutes and felt that it was really doing something.

That eve or the next day I went to play doubles. In the last set of 2 hours of tennis, I started getting considerable pain in the area between the trunk and thigh or toward hip, one side. I could still play but it was bothering me. After tennis, it hurt mostly very near the area of the stretch. The next morning it still hurt and I cancelled my tennis for the eve. By noon the pain had mostly gone away so that I wanted to play tennis again. After that, no problem.

I guess that the 5 minute stretch had gotten to a muscle and it was causing it to spasm. ?

Anyway, I wanted to ask your opinion on my experience.

 

[RogueFLIP]

The idea of a long duration stretch is very interesting. Before I tell this experience - I like the technique and will be doing it again. I thought that you might have some experience that might bear on what happened to me

Background -

I know that I have tight piriformis muscles. I have stretched them in the past with good results. I don't like the piriformis stretch partly because of my tightness and partly because of the effort. The "Figure 4" for example that I had used takes a lot of arm pulling to get much of a stretch. I'm looking for other stretch options.

"Figure 4" stretch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxsDfXBDZec

Have not tried this
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Lying-Piriformis-str.htm

Or this - I don't think I'm flexible enough for this one.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/flexibilityandstretching/qt/Piriformis_str.htm

I had found another piriformis stretch - seated, cross the legs, angle on one knee, and lean forward to feel the stretch. This allows the body weight to contribute to the stretch. I found a good Youtube that showed a way to do it in good form.
Seated Piriformis Stretch similar to what I did for the the 5 minute stretch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZ517Rw7ME

I am not a fan of the figure 4 stretch bc as you alluded to, it takes a lot of effort to hold that position for any length of time. Plus you are automatically putting the muscle in a pretty strong stretch, esp if you're tight and that's not what you want IMO for an effective stretch. Trying to balance yourself may cause you to contract the same leg you're trying to stretch and that also will counteract any stretch you're trying to acheive.

I do like the seated stretch better because you are more in control of the depth of the stretch. It's not a matter of bending all the way forward, it's about feeling a gentle stretch, then holding and softening into the stretch. As time progresses, you'll feel the stretch relax or release and then you can slowly lower yourself gently to take up the slack. How many releases you want is up to you. You don't necessarily have to think ok it's been 4:58, so I can stop now.

And going into and out of stretches is equally as important. On a particularly tight region, I can easily take 30+ second to come out of a stretch as to not engage any rebound effect.

Bonus tip: while doing the seated piriformis stretch, stick one of those soft stress balls into any tender regions in your piriformis to add a trigger point component. YMMV.

Pigeon stretch is good too because you once you're in a good position, you can really relax into the stretch, but yeah if you don't think you're flexible for it, don't try it!

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Now for my 5 minute stretch experience

I sat in the position with one ankle on the knee (see Seated Piriformis Stretch). I applied very light pressure. I held it for 5 minutes and felt that it was really doing something.

That eve or the next day I went to play doubles. In the last set of 2 hours of tennis, I started getting considerable pain in the area between the trunk and thigh, one side. I could still play but it was bothering me. After tennis, it hurt mostly very near the area of the stretch. The next morning it still hurt and I cancelled my tennis for the eve. By noon the pain had mostly gone away so that I wanted to play tennis again. After that no problem.

I guess that the 5 minute stretch had gotten to a muscle and it was causing it to spasm. ?

Anyway, I wanted to ask your opinion on my experience.

The first thing that came to mind after reading your experience is that if you only stretched the piriformis then you've created a slight imbalance in the system. Your backside is a little looser, but your front quads are still tight.

So your body detects this imbalance and along with the impact of the tennis match, it finally reached a point where it decided to tighten enough to make you feel it.

But I'm glad you listened to your body and cancelled your next tennis match. And viola, by listening to your body, it was able to resolve things, and no more pain.

2nd thing: it's quite common for patients who are new to experiencing myofascial release and its stretching concepts to report delayed onset muscle soreness symptoms. Again, as long as they don't force anything, its not injurious. You possibly could have been in that beginning stages of it, and by playing could have exacerbated it to the point of pain and discomfort.

 

[A-Rod6600]

With the seated position my big problem is that i struggle to hold the lumbar lordosis, it pretty easy flatten.
And yes i have sore in my hip on the side sometimes.