Prince NEOS or Stringway MS200
- Thread starter WYK
- Start date
MAX PLY
Hall of Fame
Either is a good choice but I would go for the Neos 1000 or 1500. Both are super solid -- little to break down on either machine. If you are ok with glide bars--go with the 1000 (its clamps are fantastic)--skip the Wise unless you really feel it is necessary---use the extra money on a machine (i.e., rather than a 1500 plus a Wise, I'd save a little more and get a Ghost).
eelhc
Hall of Fame
I had the Laserfibre MS200TT with the t98 fixed, swivel clamps and now own a Neos 1500.
Both are capable machines but the Neos 1500 IMO is a better machine.
Keep in mind that all Stringway machines have a flaw that may be a dealbreaker for you. Ob some frames, the clamps will not be able to reach the first or the last cross string because the racquet mounting base interferes. Stringway's response has been that it's only a few frames with this problem so it's no big deal... But if you happen to own one of these frames, I would steer clear of the Stringway.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/stringway-ml120-clamp-issue.411989/
Both are capable machines but the Neos 1500 IMO is a better machine.
Keep in mind that all Stringway machines have a flaw that may be a dealbreaker for you. Ob some frames, the clamps will not be able to reach the first or the last cross string because the racquet mounting base interferes. Stringway's response has been that it's only a few frames with this problem so it's no big deal... But if you happen to own one of these frames, I would steer clear of the Stringway.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/stringway-ml120-clamp-issue.411989/
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Technatic
Professional
I doubt if this is our response to this matter, anyway I do not agree with it.
Our response is that there is an easy work around for this issue:
Skip the cross string before the last and insert the last one in without tensioning first
Weave in the cross before last and tension both at knot tension.
Clamp the string before last.
IMO this works very easy and does not have any drawback.
I do think that tensioning 2 cross strings before the knot has the advantage that there is more stretch in the string to maintain the tension on the knot.
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MathieuR
Hall of Fame
Agree.IMO this works very easy and does not have any drawback.
Stringway has made the choice to prioritize the (direct) support of the beam of the racket-head while tensioning.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Thank you very much for your time, Gentlemen.
Unfortunately, the Wise will never happen. It's noisy and slow(though I assume you can turn the beeping off?). And, more importantly, I will be stringing in places where there is no power. Glide bars are fine, but I like Stringways triple flying clamps quite a bit. So whether the NEOS or the Stringway(or another option which I haven't seen suggested yet) I'll be using flying clamps often enough - which also means the issue with some rackets having some obscured string may be mitigated some? I string mostly for my local clubs, not pros(this is Ireland, after all - know an Irish pro?), so more worried about speed than absolute perfection. Another issue is an NEOS 1500(which, I assume you get for the clamps, which I do not need), is nearly $1900 delivered. So a NEOS 1K or MS200, or...?
WYK
Hall of Fame
It is also the choice betwern lock-out or constant-pull.
I would say a no-brainer
Yeah, the constant pull of the Stringway is nice, and the fact it is foot operated(which makes it even faster and more compact) is putting it in the lead so far. Though a lock out doesn't bother me, really. Add in the fact it's not made terribly far from me(Netherlands is it?), and it's in the lead.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
Can't imagine how how tensioning 2 strings at a time would maintain tension better. (Even if it is at knot tension which is something higher than normal.) Once the clamps are released you may have the same thing as if you clamped both strings to begin with.
EDIT: I say may have because you will have less tension on the bottom cross than you have on the one above it until the tensioner is released.
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WYK
Hall of Fame
Is there any Alpha support at all in Europe?
marco forehand
Semi-Pro
I currently own both a Ektelon Model H (the NEOS is a direct descendant) and a Stringway ML100 (which replaced a Stringway EM450).
I use my Ektelon when I'm stringing in public (for junior and college tournaments) but I much prefer to string on my Stringway.
Your instincts to avoid the bells and whistles of an electronic machine are, in my opinion, well founded.
I had an Wise tension head on my Ektelon which, while it lasted for years, did eventually fail.
I have had to do service work on my Ektelon but it's over 30 years old. The Stringway is about 6 years old and has not required any repairs.
The MS 200TT is a machine I've considered buying second hand. Last one I remember seeing on the market was 6 or 7 years ago. Seems that people hold on to them.
I would expect it to maintain it's resale value better then the Neos.
Just my two cents.
I use my Ektelon when I'm stringing in public (for junior and college tournaments) but I much prefer to string on my Stringway.
Your instincts to avoid the bells and whistles of an electronic machine are, in my opinion, well founded.
I had an Wise tension head on my Ektelon which, while it lasted for years, did eventually fail.
I have had to do service work on my Ektelon but it's over 30 years old. The Stringway is about 6 years old and has not required any repairs.
The MS 200TT is a machine I've considered buying second hand. Last one I remember seeing on the market was 6 or 7 years ago. Seems that people hold on to them.
I would expect it to maintain it's resale value better then the Neos.
Just my two cents.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
Prince and Gamma both have a dead simple direct mount system without the compromise of mount/clamp interference. Stringway had the opportunity to address it with their new portable machine but they do not see the interference as an issue (with their workaround).
eelhc
Hall of Fame
I doubt if this is our response to this matter, anyway I do not agree with it.
Our response is that there is an easy work around for this issue:
Skip the cross string before the last and insert the last one in without tensioning first
Weave in the cross before last and tension both at knot tension.
Clamp the string before last.
IMO this works very easy and does not have any drawback.
I do think that tensioning 2 cross strings before the knot has the advantage that there is more stretch in the string to maintain the tension on the knot.
This is called the yonex loop but without tensioning the last cross. One has to take care when doing this as there are now more chances for string crossovers outside the frame and will result in a longer length of string prior to the knot. Sloppy outside the crossovers can result in vibration for some string types.
I think Stringway machines are quality, well built machines but anyone who is considering purchasing one should be fully aware of this issue and the work around that you have for it. No?
Technatic
Professional
The MS200 with flying clamps is not on our English site but we can supply it without a problem.
If you already have the SW clamps we can also supply the machine without clamps.
Don´t you think that we would work on this when users would think this is a real issue?
To maintain the tension on a string after unclamping there must be elastic elongation in the string.
The stiffer and shorter the string the less elongation there is certainly with monos with very low elastic elongation.
So the tension drop after unclamping is huge when you only clamp one short string .
OccasionalStringer
Rookie
This is great. Following this logic it is of course better if you pull 3 crosses simultaneously rather than only 2 before tying off. Then you have even longer string and elongation to maintain tension.
But wait, if you pull 4 crosses then you have even longer string to maintain tension. Yes, it is actually best to pull all the crosses simultaneously then you have the longest possible string to maintain tension after unclamping.
But to really maximize this it is really best to string one piece, thread both mains and crosses and make single pull for all the strings. This way you have the longest possible string to maintain tension after unclamping
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Careful, you're crossing into proprietary territory methinks. This is the way demos are strung in China!
OccasionalStringer
Rookie
Yes, it is a pity that this did not come up earlier.
Now I can get my stringing time down to propably 5 minutes per frame and have also absolute top quality.
What a time saving, my next ITF in August will be peace of cake.
Technatic
Professional
When you put 50 % of the crosses in from the head and from the throat and you tension them in 2 pulls in the middle you have an “automatic proportional stringing system”.
Because of a all the friction the shorter strings are strung at the lowest tension.
These discussion should contain some humor also.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Well, that escalated quickly.
@Irvin - I actually started stringing mainly watching your videos. So I might be biased towards your opinion. Do you feel I can mitigate some of string/mount occluded problems on the mS200 by using flying clamps from the top? I think such an issue may be rare, as I only know a few players using 18X20 frames, let alone any smaller frames.
@Irvin - I actually started stringing mainly watching your videos. So I might be biased towards your opinion. Do you feel I can mitigate some of string/mount occluded problems on the mS200 by using flying clamps from the top? I think such an issue may be rare, as I only know a few players using 18X20 frames, let alone any smaller frames.
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I've never used a Stringway, but I think the problem discussed on the clamps not reaching the top or bottom crosses on some frame is a non issue. As long as you can Tension the cross next to it you should be fine. A NEOS 1000 will have a few issues too. I'd still go with the Stringway as long as you're excluding electronic machines.
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Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I prefer fixed swivel clamps over glide bar clamps and CP over lockout. If electronic is out and I was only comparing the Stringway and NEOS because of limited machine in Ireland I'd choose Stringway.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
@Irvin - that really wasn't what I asked. You said there were "issues" with the Neos and I just wanted to know how much experience you've had with it. Have you had a machine with glide bars in the past? As I mentioned, I used it for quite a long time and never had any issues. Your qualifications above are new to the conversation.
OccasionalStringer
Rookie
Well, probably also I can give you some feedback because I did string with MS200 with T92 single action clamps for some time (hundreds of frames anyway) and I still own it.
Prior to that I used to string with and old Tenex 6000 lock out machine and I also own ML100. Nowadays I string with an electronic machine.
I would say that I faced that last cross problem with 20-30 % of the frames I strung. I always used tripple flying clamps for the last cross with those trouble frames. It works ok but of course I did not like doing it that way.
Here are some other pros and cons concerning MS200
Pros
- Its is fast to operate during the actual stringing process, i.e. it pulls and releases string very fast, provided hat the tension head string sensing works ok
- No power needed
- Quite light for an upright machine, you can move it around just by lifting it
- Racket mount: direct support provides good support
- String gets easily tangled in that foot pedal and other small knobs and levers in the machine, specially when doing the crosses one ahead
- Clamps:
- Clamps have quite a bit drawback even if you twist them towards tension head like instructed. For example, after finishing crosses outside mains are always crooked inside
- Specially with crosses takes a bit time to align them with the string during clamping
- Racket mount:
- That aforementioned last cross problem
- Slow mounting specially when doing different rackets. You need to move the towers when switching to different type of racket and loosen/tighten a screw underneath the turntable. You must pay attention that you tighten them properly
- Racket may start to slide sideways when doing last crosses
- Tension setting a little bit complicated,
- You need to lean forward and look at the scale at right angle and have enough light
- You need to turn one lever which you may easily forget to turn back. You may not notice the wrong position of the lever when you start stringing and it will reduce tension a lot
- Tension head:
- pull length is short, with stretchy multis and SG tensioner bottoms out and 2-3 pulls is required. Not a problem with polys though which I strung 99% of the time
- pull accuracy with different tension head angles is not as good as advertised and varies between individual units. But my MS200 is better in this respect than my ML 100. As I was stringing mostly polys I calibrated my machine so that tension was good with first 2/3 of tension head motion range and I made a little mark on the tension head which I monitored during pull. If the mark went too far I made another pull.
- If you do several rackets a day your left leg may wear out from operating that footpedal, each pull requires two strokes
The machine is quite robust. I bought mine used from a tennis shop (auction site UK) when they switched to Wilson Baiardo. It had one problem though, the tension adjustment screw slowly turned on its own during stringing. In the beginning I was juts monitoring it and adjusting it back but later I improved the problem with a nyloc nut placed is a threaded rod inside tensioner. To do this I had to partly disassemble the tension head assembly. I may be that this was due to heavy use at the shop and this detail may have been improved in later models
My machine was made pre-concorde time so I retrofitted one. But I pretty soon switched back original fixed console arm for 3 reasons
- String tension was 10 % too high with concorde in tilted position. This is because the angle at which the string enters the tension head plays critical role regarding tension head pull tension. According to my measurements I had much better tension accuracy with no tilt and going over the racket when pulling center mains at the throat
- In increased the distance of the turntable and the racket from tension head. So tension head was bottoming out more frequently as there was more string to stretch
- With concorde there was one more lever to catch the string during stringing
OccasionalStringer
Rookie
In my review I forgot this from the pros:
- Clamps:
- Clamps are very string friendly and have a good grip with light pressure (no marks in the string).
- You also quite seldom need to adjust them even if the string gauge changes
- Clamps are very string friendly and have a good grip with light pressure (no marks in the string).
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
@OccasionalStringer - that is a great review.....
Chotobaka
Hall of Fame
Irvin
Talk Tennis Guru
I really don't care what you asked
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, that's about par for the course.
OccasionalStringer
Rookie
Thanks!
eelhc
Hall of Fame
Prince has a similar direct mount system. So does Gamma on their 2 point (actually 6 point) machines. Having has a MS200TT, I prefer the Prince Neos 1500 and Gamma 2 point mounts.
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