pt57a pt57e tgk238.1 compared?

[kumat63]

Does anyone with actual knowledge know how the Microgel Prestige MP from the head factory (throat code tgk 238.1) actually differs from a pt57a or pt57e? Is there really any microgel in a TGK238.1 or is it just a pt57a mold with a different lay-up?

 

[dr325i]

Does anyone with actual knowledge know how the Microgel Prestige MP from the head factory (throat code tgk 238.1) actually differs from a pt57a or pt57e? Is there really any microgel in a TGK238.1 or is it just a pt57a mold with a different lay-up?

Do the SEARCH!!! There is a WHOLE thread exactly about what you're asking...
The TGK238.1 is Made in China, has NOTHING to do with the PT57x mold and yes, it has the MG in it. It is EXACTLY the same mold as the Retail MG Prestige MP, different layup. It comes lighter than the Retail MG, comes with the different balance and different flex (feels much stiffer, but may not be, just different flex).

The PT57x is made in Austria.

 

[kumat63]

Do the SEARCH!!! There is a WHOLE thread exactly about what you're asking...
The TGK238.1 is Made in China, has NOTHING to do with the PT57x mold and yes, it has the MG in it. It is EXACTLY the same mold as the Retail MG Prestige MP, different layup. It comes lighter than the Retail MG, comes with the different balance and different flex (feels much stiffer, but may not be, just different flex).

The PT57x is made in Austria.

I DID DO A SEARCH... your threads are the only ones that claimed to know where the frames came from but... you speculated a TGK238.1 flexes in the upper sixties. I put three of them on a Babolat RDC machine and they flexed at 60, 60, and 61. An old PT630 flexed at 58 on the same machine and four retail MG Prestige MPs flexed between 63 and 65. So your speculations didn't match my actual measurements.

Also you are the only one I could find who insists (with no reason or source for your claim) that the TGK238.1 is made in China. Well, the three I got were from Roman Prokes from **** and he said they were definitely made in Austria. Roman is a pretty credible source. My three from Roman have a bunch of lead under the bumper and silicone in the handle and still only weigh 325g. Haven't seen a China made frame that light.

So on the two assertions you make that I could test, you did not come up as a credible source.

Finally I didn't ask how the TGK238.1 compares to retail because I already know. I didn't ask how it compares to a PT57x because I don't care. I wanted to know how the TGK238.1 actually compares in terms of flex, raw weight, and mold to a PT57a and PT57e. I didn't want speculation but actual info from someone who has actually measured the three frames on the same machine.

If you don't have the info, maybe you could save the flaming posts, huh? It's supposed to be an information board, polite answer to polite questions, yes?

 

[RacquetCraft]

I DID DO A SEARCH... your threads are the only ones that claimed to know where the frames came from but... you speculated a TGK238.1 flexes in the upper sixties. I put three of them on a Babolat RDC machine and they flexed at 60, 60, and 61. An old PT630 flexed at 58 on the same machine and four retail MG Prestige MPs flexed between 63 and 65. So your speculations didn't match my actual measurements.

Also you are the only one I could find who insists (with no reason or source for your claim) that the TGK238.1 is made in China. Well, the three I got were from Roman Prokes from **** and he said they were definitely made in Austria. Roman is a pretty credible source. My three from Roman have a bunch of lead under the bumper and silicone in the handle and still only weigh 325g. Haven't seen a China made frame that light.

So on the two assertions you make that I could test, you did not come up as a credible source.

Finally I didn't ask how the TGK238.1 compares to retail because I already know. I didn't ask how it compares to a PT57x because I don't care. I wanted to know how the TGK238.1 actually compares in terms of flex, raw weight, and mold to a PT57a and PT57e. I didn't want speculation but actual info from someone who has actually measured the three frames on the same machine.

If you don't have the info, maybe you could save the flaming posts, huh? It's supposed to be an information board, polite answer to polite questions, yes?

Kumat63, if that is what Roman told you then lucky you!

Everyone else who plays with that racquet has to settle for TGK238.1's made in China (including the pro players).

RacquetCraft

 

[kumat63]

Kumat63, if that is what Roman told you then lucky you!

Everyone else who plays with that racquet has to settle for TGK238.1's made in China (including the pro players).

RacquetCraft

Interesting. Yes that's what Roman told me himself when I ordered and spec'd the frames. I got the three frames specifically because they were Austrian made. It was December '07 I think... Are you suggesting that Roman was not being honest about this? If you're sure the TGK238.1s were only made in China, I'd like to know how you know this, because I've always thought Roman to be a completely reliable source.

 

[RacquetCraft]

Interesting. Yes that's what Roman told me himself when I ordered and spec'd the frames. I got the three frames specifically because they were Austrian made. It was December '07 I think... Are you suggesting that Roman was not being honest about this? If you're sure the TGK238.1s were only made in China, I'd like to know how you know this, because I've always thought Roman to be a completely reliable source.

kumat63, please don't put words in my mouth. I never made any such suggestion about Roman's credibility. I have no idea what you bought from Roman, nor do I particularly care

I recommend that you read the post titled "custom youtek radical" in the Racquet section of this TT board...your answer lies within that post, and particularly VSBabolat's posts #73 and #75:wink:

My point was that the hairpin was not manufactured in Kennelbach...it was manufactured in China.

You got a pro racquet..in fact you got the same racquet many if not most Head sponsored players use...it was likely customized and finished in the Head pro room ...where's the beef?

 

[kumat63]

kumat63, please don't put words in my mouth. I never made any such suggestion about Roman's credibility. I have no idea what you bought from Roman, nor do I particularly care

I recommend that you read the post titled "custom youtek radical" in the Racquet section of this TT board...your answer lies within that post, and particularly VSBabolat's posts #73 and #75:wink:

My point was that the hairpin was not manufactured in Kennelbach...it was manufactured in China.

You got a pro racquet..in fact you got the same racquet many if not most Head sponsored players use...it was likely customized and finished in the Head pro room ...where's the beef?

How am I putting words in your mouth? You seem to claim that all TGK238.1s are made in China, yes? I am telling you Roman Prokes told me personally that the TGK238.1s I bought from him in Dec '07 were manufactured in Austria. Not customized there. Roman customized the raw frame himself to my specs. He insisted the frame was made in Austria. Either Roman was not speaking factually or you aren't. I just want to know where the TGK238.1 frames are really made. I know Roman to be a credible source. So, I would like to know who are you anyway that you (and VSBabolat) know more about this than Roman Prokes?

Maybe you are right and Roman is wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence that you really know more about this than he does. So, do share more, if you would be so kind... I'm not interested in flame wars or putting anyone down, but just finding out the facts on this frame.

Thanks.

 

[JW10S]

I'd like to see some evidence that you really know more about this than he does.

Looking for evidence is a waste of time on this board I can assure you. People make claims all the time that they can't back up--except to say another poster says so. What you get is mostly conjecture, hearsay, wishful thinking, assumption, rumour, not so educated guesses, and often just plain fiction.

 

[ae1222]

If you look in the thread on the PT57E vs. TGK you referred to earlier I measured the RA on a bunch of different head frames, the TGK, the 57A, the 57E and even and i.prestige I had laying around. That was the only data I had on those frames, I didn't get weight or SW on any of them, sorry. Plus it is hard to say what the weight is because all of the ones I have have lead in them in different areas, most of mine are all in the same range in specs.

I can go in and weigh them if you want, but again it won't be absolute for all frames. Were you interested in what the standard unleaded #'s are for all of those frames? I would find that interesting myself.

As for where they are built I have no clue. And in all honesty I don't particularly care because all that matters to me is I like how the TGK frame feels and plays. Doesn't make it better or worse than any other racquet on the market, just means I like it, so I use it.

 

[dr325i]

I DID DO A SEARCH... your threads are the only ones that claimed to know where the frames came from but... you speculated a TGK238.1 flexes in the upper sixties. I put three of them on a Babolat RDC machine and they flexed at 60, 60, and 61. An old PT630 flexed at 58 on the same machine and four retail MG Prestige MPs flexed between 63 and 65. So your speculations didn't match my actual measurements.

Also you are the only one I could find who insists (with no reason or source for your claim) that the TGK238.1 is made in China. Well, the three I got were from Roman Prokes from **** and he said they were definitely made in Austria. Roman is a pretty credible source. My three from Roman have a bunch of lead under the bumper and silicone in the handle and still only weigh 325g. Haven't seen a China made frame that light.

So on the two assertions you make that I could test, you did not come up as a credible source.

Finally I didn't ask how the TGK238.1 compares to retail because I already know. I didn't ask how it compares to a PT57x because I don't care. I wanted to know how the TGK238.1 actually compares in terms of flex, raw weight, and mold to a PT57a and PT57e. I didn't want speculation but actual info from someone who has actually measured the three frames on the same machine.

If you don't have the info, maybe you could save the flaming posts, huh? It's supposed to be an information board, polite answer to polite questions, yes?

First of all your Roman could have told you that the TGKs were filled with gold (just to sell it to you) and you would have gone for it... In any case, the SAME Roman told me and many others that the TGKs are Made in China. Furthermore, I know at LEAST 5 more tuners and customizers out there that claim the same. AND furthermore I know at least 3 Pros that use the TGKs and confirmed they do NOT come from Austria.

NEXT, your flex machine thing... Maybe you should read a bit more in the thread. I did not claim they were in the upper 60's, I said they felt like that. Your machine measures flex around a single point, the racket may be more flexy there, yet still feel stiffer when hitting -- and that is the case with the TGKs - they definitely feel stiffer than the retail or PT57E.

Again, READ the damn whole thread, not a single post with my opinions about the frames...

 

[kumat63]

If you look in the thread on the PT57E vs. TGK you referred to earlier I measured the RA on a bunch of different head frames, the TGK, the 57A, the 57E and even and i.prestige I had laying around. That was the only data I had on those frames, I didn't get weight or SW on any of them, sorry. Plus it is hard to say what the weight is because all of the ones I have have lead in them in different areas, most of mine are all in the same range in specs.

I can go in and weigh them if you want, but again it won't be absolute for all frames. Were you interested in what the standard unleaded #'s are for all of those frames? I would find that interesting myself.

As for where they are built I have no clue. And in all honesty I don't particularly care because all that matters to me is I like how the TGK frame feels and plays. Doesn't make it better or worse than any other racquet on the market, just means I like it, so I use it.

I appreciated your measurements and they were interesting. The unleaded weights would be interesting, but like you say, pretty much guesswork. I would be curious since you've been able to look at the PT57a, PT57e, and TGK238.1 side by side if they are three different molds, or if the TGK238.1 looks to be the same mold as the PT57a or PT57e... Thanks for the info!

 

[kumat63]

First of all your Roman could have told you that the TGKs were filled with gold (just to sell it to you) and you would have gone for it... In any case, the SAME Roman told me and many others that the TGKs are Made in China. Furthermore, I know at LEAST 5 more tuners and customizers out there that claim the same. AND furthermore I know at least 3 Pros that use the TGKs and confirmed they do NOT come from Austria.

NEXT, your flex machine thing... Maybe you should read a bit more in the thread. I did not claim they were in the upper 60's, I said they felt like that. Your machine measures flex around a single point, the racket may be more flexy there, yet still feel stiffer when hitting -- and that is the case with the TGKs - they definitely feel stiffer than the retail or PT57E.

Again, READ the damn whole thread, not a single post with my opinions about the frames...

Where does the hostility and the snide comments about my character (and Roman Proke's) come from? Seriously dude, I don't know you, you don't me, and if you really knew Roman you wouldn't insult him by suggesting he's a cheap huckster. Could you just stick to answering polite questions with simple, factual responses? As far as reading your whole thread... well, like you read my post carefully and answered the questions I asked? I don't think you did. And where in your thread did you ever post actual RDC numbers anyway? I looked over it again (it's a long thread) and never found that part of it. I've hit with the retail MG and TGK and they feel the same to me, I couldn't tell a difference in stiffness, even though the TGKs I measured flexed a few points less stiff.

Here's a thought: Could it be some of the TGK238.1s were Austrian made and some where made in China? Maybe we're both right? At any rate, your suggestion that Roman lied to me to make a sale is insulting to a man with an excellent reputation in the tennis world. Unless you've got some hard evidence to back up your claim that he's dishonest (i.e. the names of the other "pros" and "tuners" and the name of their Head connection or a confession from Roman) then you really ought to think about an apology... or at least stick to posting factual answers with more to back it up than your feelings (and anonymous hearsay).

 

[kumat63]

Looking for evidence is a waste of time on this board I can assure you. People make claims all the time that they can't back up--except to say another poster says so. What you get is mostly conjecture, hearsay, wishful thinking, assumption, rumour, not so educated guesses, and often just plain fiction.

I see your point!

 

[TheSafin]

kumat the hostility is coming from your direct defiance to any kind of information racquetcraft and dr325i, who are both credible posters, try to give to you. you keep asking people for evidence, but where's yours?

 

[ae1222]

I appreciated your measurements and they were interesting. The unleaded weights would be interesting, but like you say, pretty much guesswork. I would be curious since you've been able to look at the PT57a, PT57e, and TGK238.1 side by side if they are three different molds, or if the TGK238.1 looks to be the same mold as the PT57a or PT57e... Thanks for the info!

I am no expert but here are my observations, remember, these could be totally incorrect. I think they all come out of slightly different molds. The vast majority of the frame all looks the same, overall head size and beam width are about the same (for some reason the E feels just a tad wider, but maybe I am just seeing things). The only visible difference I can see between all three is what most on this board refer to as "the dimples" of the frame, the indentation at the bottom portion of the hoop where it meets the "Y" of the throat, at approximately 5 and 7 o'clock. The indentations there are slightly different on all 3 frames, the E frame it is a bit longer and tapers to a very long, sharp point. On the TGK it is shorter and what I would term as stubby, with a rounded end point. The A frame seems to be somewhere in between these two. I hope that helps, but that is the only thing I can tell, but what do I know.

 

[dr325i]

Where does the hostility and the snide comments about my character (and Roman Proke's) come from? Seriously dude, I don't know you, you don't me, and if you really knew Roman you wouldn't insult him by suggesting he's a cheap huckster. Could you just stick to answering polite questions with simple, factual responses? As far as reading your whole thread... well, like you read my post carefully and answered the questions I asked? I don't think you did. And where in your thread did you ever post actual RDC numbers anyway? I looked over it again (it's a long thread) and never found that part of it. I've hit with the retail MG and TGK and they feel the same to me, I couldn't tell a difference in stiffness, even though the TGKs I measured flexed a few points less stiff.

Here's a thought: Could it be some of the TGK238.1s were Austrian made and some where made in China? Maybe we're both right? At any rate, your suggestion that Roman lied to me to make a sale is insulting to a man with an excellent reputation in the tennis world. Unless you've got some hard evidence to back up your claim that he's dishonest (i.e. the names of the other "pros" and "tuners" and the name of their Head connection or a confession from Roman) then you really ought to think about an apology... or at least stick to posting factual answers with more to back it up than your feelings (and anonymous hearsay).

First, I apologize if I sounded rude...I looked back at my replies to your posts and they are...rough

Now, as I pointed out, I talked to Roman about these sticks (see my signature), I talked to the people that work for him, I talked to MANY other tuners and customizers and last 5 of the TGK sticks (Mid, Pro and MP) I got from two different Pros, one ranked in the 300s, one in the 450s, and ALL of them confirmed the sticks are Made in China, same mold as the retail stick, different material composition, therefore, as we both agree:
- lighter
- different flex
- different balance

My main sticks that I use are matched and belonged to Volandri.

These sticks, after being produced and painted in China are shipped to Head Austria or to the Customizers for the finishing touches.

The only Head rackets actually made in Kennelbach factory are PT57x, PT10 and PT161 , and some unique sticks that apparently have no codes (like Murray's for example)...

Nevertheless, I trully don't care if my stick is made in China, Austria or Russia as long as it feels good and is easily customizable.

i never posted any RDC numbers in the thread I started as I never measured any of that as I really don't care what the machine would say about the flex about a single point. On the other hand, I find a HUGE difference between the Retail stick and the TGK:
- stiffness as I explained
- feel (MUCH more solid)
- totally different sound
- totally different balance (less HL allowing you to add silicone in the handle that most Pros do)
- weight as we both mentionsd...

 

[PED]

As for where they are built I have no clue. And in all honesty I don't particularly care because all that matters to me is I like how the TGK frame feels and plays. Doesn't make it better or worse than any other racquet on the market, just means I like it, so I use it.

BINGO!!!!

I do seem to remember something back in late 07,early 08 about **** selling some frames from Austria but they had run out and the rest would be the chinese frames. I tried to search but couldn't find the points I was looking for. I'm just sad that they are not selling the TGK's at **** this time around

 

[ae1222]

BINGO!!!!

I do seem to remember something back in late 07,early 08 about **** selling some frames from Austria but they had run out and the rest would be the chinese frames. I tried to search but couldn't find the points I was looking for. I'm just sad that they are not selling the TGK's at **** this time around

yeah that does suck that we won't be able to get more. But then again, head may come out with the new prestige and the PJ may be just awful so maybe it is a blessing in disguise. But if we can't get them anymore then the unfortunate byproduct will be that the price will go up on the old ones. Who says I didn't pay attention in my economics class all those years ago?

 

[PED]

Can anyone compare the "feel" of the TGK 238.1 (midplus) with the feel of the retail Prestige MG Mid?

When I played with the retail MGMP last month, it felt too flimsy for me-not near as robust as my Pro and it felt flexy in all the wrong places...IMO

I played today with my son's MG Mid and it was absolute $$. Couldn't believe the effortless pace on groundies and the depth. Put away balls were a dream and so was the serve. I might have to hi jack this stick from him.

I'm going to string it up with PL2 this weekend at 52/50 and see how it goes. On the MGMP, I thought it was the tight pattern that I didn't like but I had no issues with the 18X20 on the Mid today so go figure.

I'm curious if the tgk238.1 feels as solid...Sorry for the ramble

 

[dr325i]

Can anyone compare the "feel" of the TGK 238.1 (midplus) with the feel of the retail Prestige MG Mid?

When I played with the retail MGMP last month, it felt too flimsy for me-not near as robust as my Pro and it felt flexy in all the wrong places...IMO

I played today with my son's MG Mid and it was absolute $$. Couldn't believe the effortless pace on groundies and the depth. Put away balls were a dream and so was the serve. I might have to hi jack this stick from him.

I'm going to string it up with PL2 this weekend at 52/50 and see how it goes. On the MGMP, I thought it was the tight pattern that I didn't like but I had no issues with the 18X20 on the Mid today so go figure.

I'm curious if the tgk238.1 feels as solid...Sorry for the ramble

I played with both and the Mid was a bit too small for me. I also played with the 237.1 and will have two of them next week...
The 238.1 is much different (flex points, stiffness feel, etc) from the MGPMP. Much more solid feel, etc. Although, I liked the Retail too.

But you knew all that already

 

[PED]

If the 238.1 was more like the Mid in terms of solid feeling, I think I would like that. As I mentioned above, I thought my issue with the MP was the tight pattern but I was getting plenty of action on the ball with the Mid.

I was surprised that the head size was not an issue....it's bothered me in the past and I'll know more after hitting with it for a week or so.

 

[kumat63]

I am no expert but here are my observations, remember, these could be totally incorrect. I think they all come out of slightly different molds. The vast majority of the frame all looks the same, overall head size and beam width are about the same (for some reason the E feels just a tad wider, but maybe I am just seeing things). The only visible difference I can see between all three is what most on this board refer to as "the dimples" of the frame, the indentation at the bottom portion of the hoop where it meets the "Y" of the throat, at approximately 5 and 7 o'clock. The indentations there are slightly different on all 3 frames, the E frame it is a bit longer and tapers to a very long, sharp point. On the TGK it is shorter and what I would term as stubby, with a rounded end point. The A frame seems to be somewhere in between these two. I hope that helps, but that is the only thing I can tell, but what do I know.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was curious about. I've seen some photos of the three but never all lined up. From pics I've seen it looks like the "dimple" area is slightly different on all three which does suggest three (slightly) different molds. And is the area at the end of the CAP, near the handle, a bit different on some of them too?

I appreciate the info...

 

[ae1222]

Yeah I would say the TGK is more similar in feeling to the stock mid than to the MP. The MP just felt hollow and flimsy to me, I really like the TGK because it is so solid. I feel like I get just a little more pop with the TGK as well compared to the mid, plus the larger head size is nice. I feel like I get plenty of action with it even though it is an 18X20. But I have noticed lately that I am breaking string somewhat faster than I usually would with an 18X20 (used to use the Kblade tour for awhile) but it is worth it.

 

[ae1222]

Thanks! That's exactly what I was curious about. I've seen some photos of the three but never all lined up. From pics I've seen it looks like the "dimple" area is slightly different on all three which does suggest three (slightly) different molds. And is the area at the end of the CAP, near the handle, a bit different on some of them too?

I appreciate the info...

I have always had issues trying to post pics on this site (apparently I am not that smart) but if you want pics of all of mine lined up just shoot me an email at bwentz1222@yahoo.com and I can take any that you want.

 

[kumat63]

First, I apologize if I sounded rude...I looked back at my replies to your posts and they are...rough

Now, as I pointed out, I talked to Roman about these sticks (see my signature), I talked to the people that work for him, I talked to MANY other tuners and customizers and last 5 of the TGK sticks (Mid, Pro and MP) I got from two different Pros, one ranked in the 300s, one in the 450s, and ALL of them confirmed the sticks are Made in China, same mold as the retail stick, different material composition, therefore, as we both agree:
- lighter
- different flex
- different balance

My main sticks that I use are matched and belonged to Volandri.

These sticks, after being produced and painted in China are shipped to Head Austria or to the Customizers for the finishing touches.

The only Head rackets actually made in Kennelbach factory are PT57x, PT10 and PT161 , and some unique sticks that apparently have no codes (like Murray's for example)...

Nevertheless, I trully don't care if my stick is made in China, Austria or Russia as long as it feels good and is easily customizable.

i never posted any RDC numbers in the thread I started as I never measured any of that as I really don't care what the machine would say about the flex about a single point. On the other hand, I find a HUGE difference between the Retail stick and the TGK:
- stiffness as I explained
- feel (MUCH more solid)
- totally different sound
- totally different balance (less HL allowing you to add silicone in the handle that most Pros do)
- weight as we both mentionsd...

Apology accepted, thanks! Sorry too that my tone was less than friendly at a number of points

I only had Roman's say so back in Dec. '07 when I bought the sticks. Clearly you've talked to more people and credible folks than I have about these frames. Perhaps Roman was simply misinformed? I do think he's an honest and knowledgeable person, but everyone makes mistakes and I suppose no one asks too many questions when you get a chance to acquire pro-room frames. I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says...

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

 

[kumat63]

First, I apologize if I sounded rude...I looked back at my replies to your posts and they are...rough

Now, as I pointed out, I talked to Roman about these sticks (see my signature), I talked to the people that work for him, I talked to MANY other tuners and customizers and last 5 of the TGK sticks (Mid, Pro and MP) I got from two different Pros, one ranked in the 300s, one in the 450s, and ALL of them confirmed the sticks are Made in China, same mold as the retail stick, different material composition, therefore, as we both agree:
- lighter
- different flex
- different balance

My main sticks that I use are matched and belonged to Volandri.

These sticks, after being produced and painted in China are shipped to Head Austria or to the Customizers for the finishing touches.

The only Head rackets actually made in Kennelbach factory are PT57x, PT10 and PT161 , and some unique sticks that apparently have no codes (like Murray's for example)...

Nevertheless, I trully don't care if my stick is made in China, Austria or Russia as long as it feels good and is easily customizable.

i never posted any RDC numbers in the thread I started as I never measured any of that as I really don't care what the machine would say about the flex about a single point. On the other hand, I find a HUGE difference between the Retail stick and the TGK:
- stiffness as I explained
- feel (MUCH more solid)
- totally different sound
- totally different balance (less HL allowing you to add silicone in the handle that most Pros do)
- weight as we both mentionsd...

Apology accepted, thanks! Sorry too that my tone was less than friendly at a number of points

I only had Roman's say so back in Dec. '07 when I bought the sticks. Clearly you've talked to more people and credible folks than I have about these frames. Perhaps Roman was simply misinformed? I do think he's an honest and knowledgeable person, but everyone makes mistakes and I suppose no one asks too many questions when you get a chance to acquire pro-room frames. I'll send him an e-mail and see what he says...

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". But it's a subtle difference and in terms of playability, I really couldn't see a difference in performance. My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

 

[ae1222]

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?[/QUOTE]

I think (and not sure on this one) is that the layup material and composition of the TGK is different than the standard frame. The first thing I noticed when I hit the first few balls with it was the flexibility (I thought it was very different) and the dampened feel of the frame. I got to think that has to do with the composition materials, but I have no clue what they are. I think that is what you are feeling when you say the frame isn't "pingy" because the frame is flexing so much more you will get a much deeper sound out of the frame.

No clue on how they make the frame that much lighter, my guess is (again, just speculating) is that the frame doesn't have much filler in it (many frames have some type of foam) because the frame composition doesn't require it because it is denser (just a wild guess, only way I will know is to smash one and find out but that would be a waste of a good frame and way too expensive just to satisfy my curiosity). I do love how the pro stock frames come that light so you can really mess around with the weight and balance, I have mine slightly heavier than yours, I have mine at 330g unstrung (352 strung with overgrip) and approximately 8 pts headlight. Swingweight measured on the Babolat RDC machine (there is your reference point!) was 302 unstrung and 335 strung.

 

[dr325i]

So are the PT57a and PT57e made in Austria or China? I don't mean to belabor the point, I'm just curious. I agree with you that it really isn't important. I've enjoyed playing with the 3 TGK238.1s I have and wherever they were made does not affect how they play or feel at all.

That said, I have hit extensively with retail MG Prestige MPs and I do not perceive them to be more or less stiff than the TGK238.1 The Babolat RDC machine a buddy of mine has says the TGKs are a little less stiff (63-65 RDC vs. 60-61 for the TGK). I mention the machine only because it give some objective measure to subjective impressions. Maybe my arm and hands just aren't finely calibrated enough to tell subtle differences.

I do think the TGKs have a little different feel from the retail. A little more dampened and muted. A little less "pingy". But it's a subtle difference and in terms of playability, I really couldn't see a difference in performance. My tennis shop owning friend, a solid 5.0 player who's been ranked in the top 5 ams in our state, also had a similar impression. For what it's worth, I had my TGK238.1s spec'd almost identically to retail: 325 grams unstrung, 7.5 points headlight strung and had the same string in the retail and in the TGK. I wonder if the different feel is simply from the TGK being lighter from the start? I'm just guessing, but I can't imagine the raw weight for the frame could be over 11 ounces. It does make me wonder what they do to make the frame that much lighter? Any word on that?

THe PT57A & E, the PT10 and the PT161 are all made in Austria, along with the "special" Head frames/molds (Murray, Novak...). The PT57A uses the old PT630 mold, the PT57E apparently the iPrestige MP mold, the PT10 is the PC600... Beside the molds, they don't have much else incomon with those sticks.

I don't know anything about the RA stiffness rating of the frames, but I definitely know that the TGKs feel stiffer (or more solid) than the retail MGP MP.

My favorite feature of the TGK sticks is that I can customize them the way I like it without going excessive weight; I could not do that with the retail frames.

So, for me, they are great - stiff feeling, solid, ideal balance/weight/SW, great sound...

I am not sure how they make them lighter. THey do feel solid, so it is probably not the lack of the filler as compared to the Retail. That plus a different balance in the "stock" form from the retail + a different sound tells me they are using a different material composition. I am just guessing here...

 

[kumat63]

ae1222 and dr325... thanks for the replies.

At the end of the day, we seem to have the same impressions of the racquets... appreciate your input!

 

[bad_call]

PED - interested in your comments regarding the Mid.

 

[PED]

PED - interested in your comments regarding the Mid.

Hit again today with it and NASTY is the word I'll use...not the racquet but the ball it produces. Playing against a heavy hitter and the extra mass of the mid (350g) just absorbs the pace and spits it out. I'm usually pretty good at hitting the middle of the bed on the Pro (always breaks right there) and that helps in hitting the sweet spot on the Mid as it's a somewhat all or nothing kind of deal.

I don't know if it's the smaller head versus the Pro combined with the thinner 19mm beam but racquet head speed is really effortless. I've had no issues with depth or spin and the shot that has really shined with the extra control is to take a FH from the dead center of the baseline and drive it just inside the service line in the deuce court. I could do that with the Pro but not as consistently. When I played today, I still had the FXP in there but will have PL2 at 51/49 in there next week. My stringer shook his head as the stick he had just strung up was my Pro at 57/55, but with full poly in the 89.3 inch head, I'd rather be safe than sorry. He's probably cursing me as we speak putting that poly on that small head

 

[bad_call]

PED - thanks for your post. happy with the Pro but may need to give the Mid a try at some point.

 

[PED]

Bad Call, one more update on the Mid. I tried it with full pl2 but the Mid played better with head FXP at 58/56. The multi gave it more pocketing as well and a bit more pop.

I like the Mid when playing against a big hitter because it absorbs pace so much but found it a bit frustrating on Monday when playing against somewhat of a pusher. I found I could more easier get spin from my Pro to get the angles I wanted....

Oh well, it was fun. As I've said before, I wish they'd make a 98 inch version of the Mid with the thin beam and the same heft as opposed to the MGMP they did come out with.

 

[bad_call]

Bad Call, one more update on the Mid. I tried it with full pl2 but the Mid played better with head FXP at 58/56. The multi gave it more pocketing as well and a bit more pop.

I like the Mid when playing against a big hitter because it absorbs pace so much but found it a bit frustrating on Monday when playing against somewhat of a pusher. I found I could more easier get spin from my Pro to get the angles I wanted....

Oh well, it was fun. As I've said before, I wish they'd make a 98 inch version of the Mid with the thin beam and the same heft as opposed to the MGMP they did come out with.

thanks. confirmed my thoughts on the Mid.

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

. I would be curious since you've been able to look at the PT57a, PT57e, and TGK238.1 side by side if they are three different molds, or if the TGK238.1 looks to be the same mold as the PT57a or PT57e... Thanks for the info!

notice how your concern was not answered by our in house Dr

 

[dr325i]

notice how your concern was not answered by our in house Dr

Instead of crying and being hurt for someone pointing out details you did not know, you should take it as a learning lesson...

 

[Pro_Tour_630]

notice you still did not answer the question.............. intern

 

[dgoran]

So all animosity aside can anyone who knows anyone in the know from Head Austria or some factory person familiar with the process confirm these statements/suspicions:

"pt57e" - lite pro stock version of consumer iprestige
"pt57a - lite pro stock version of consumer pro tour 630"
"tkg series - lite pro stock model/version of consumer MG line"

How do you make racket lighter and in the same time feel the same?
My understanding is that most pros grow up using one RETAIL frame or another with various customizations throughout the years so head makes pt and tkg for them to ease matching to their exact specs. For example Djokovic used Prince than LM radical than probably realized he could use more flex so head custom made a radical for him with LM Rad mold and PT 630 flex feel.

 

[ignorant]

Hi, is it all TGK238.1 are extended racquet? thanks!

 

[BobFL]

Hi, is it all TGK238.1 are extended racquet? thanks!

No....................

 

[ignorant]

No....................

Thanks,recently i brought a TGK238.1 ,which is half inches longer,and it is heavily customized,lead under the bumper and Silicone inside the butt cap,and i hit with it for a hour, and i feel more solid on groundies,compare with the stock prestige mid+,but i can't generate speed on serve because it was a few more points headlight,but i love the feel.

 

[BobFL]

Thanks,recently i brought a TGK238.1 ,which is half inches longer,and it is heavily customized,lead under the bumper and Silicone inside the butt cap,and i hit with it for a hour, and i feel more solid on groundies,compare with the stock prestige mid+,but i can't generate speed on serve because it was a few more points headlight,but i love the feel.

Yep, you bought extended version. Standard version is also available...

 

[star 5 15]

All head prostock frames, tgks included start out as hairpins and are cut down to the desired length whether or not head does it in austria or the desired customizer of the players choice.