Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.
Haha it was just a terrible pun, it's called Babolat Envy, they just spell it in a silly way.
And I got it in trade for an old racquet, so it ended up only costing me a racquet I'd never use again (an AG100), and even if I want to, I still have six more left lol.
And, I do agree that most syn guts do play similarly with a few exceptions: Gosen OGSM, Forten Sweet, Pro Supex Titan and Bab Nvy. I think the reason Nvy is so expensive is because it plays more like a solid-core multifilament, AND, it's the best cross string you can get next to gut (my personal opinion).
Pro Supex BAM / Babolat N.vY 1.30mm
Pro Supex BAM / Babolat N.vY 1.30mm
Stringing: Super easy to string. I'm almost convinced that Nvy is a multi with the tiniest solid core so they have to call it a syn gut, because it's floppier than even some multis. It strings identically to Thunderblast, but is very soft feeling like Thunderblast. Don't just rip it through otherwise I imagine you'll burn it easily. Apologies for my highlights work in the macro shot, I just wanted to show the difference in size between the thin mains and thick crosses. Strung 47/51.5 lbs.
Nvy cross is not the answer. Damps the BAM too much. Will try NRG2 next (got about a half reel, why not).
Discho Iontec Black 1.20mm / Dunlop S-Gut 17g
Discho Iontec Black 1.20mm / Dunlop S-Gut 17g
Stringing: Easy peasy. If you haven't guessed, I didn't much care for the Nvy cross with the BAM mains. It's brilliant with other polys, but not so with BAM. It just took away too much of the crispness and responsive feel. So instead, I am using another budget but outstanding poly. In the Iontec family, I feel that Iontec Black is the one to use in the mains, and Iontec Salmon is the one to use as a cross for gut. Since this is a mains setup, I decided to cross it with S-Gut 1.22mm in black. Should play softer than the BAM, but it will for sure have superior feel and less of a stiff feedback. Will see in the morning. Strung 47/52lbs
I think I read that Co-focus is one of your favorite poly strings as a cross. Do you still hold that opinion? Is it just as good for a multi or s.gut hybrid as it is for natural gut?
For a cross with gut, it's fantastic. Beyond that, I don't have the experience to say.
Pah, the Iontec Black still wasn't as good. It really is hard to beat that crisp feeling that BAM gives you.
Based on the high praise for the WT gut-Co-Focus hybrid setup - I just ordered Pacific Natural Gut to go with Co-Focus 1.23. What tension do you recommend?
I'll be comparing this to what I am currently hitting, Co-Focus mains (52) and OGSM crosses (56). I do like that setup so it will be fun to compare.
There is a significant cost difference between the two - but also hopeful the gut-Co-focus will have more durability so cost isn't a major issue (assuming I like the gut setup better)
I've never hit gut before so excited to try this.
There is a huge thread on that exact combination, so I would post in there. WT is very low powered compared to other guts, whereas Pacific is not.
Oh - Thanks - I will take a look.
A little disappointed to read that the Pacific is not as low powered as the WT, since the WT is not available (from what I found) - I was hoping the Pacific would be a decent low cost alternative - at least for trying my first gut.
Oh then don't be disappointed. WT is not a good introduction to gut because no other natural gut plays like it. It is for that reason, however, that I like it. If VS wasn't so expensive though, do trust that I'd use that exclusively.
Interesting, you'll find that Iontec marks up balls too if you're hitting at a decent pace. (Granted, it's no where near the bleeding of other colored strings).
I actually don't mind it at all. How much does the TBst come out to a set? I've started "trying" multis in a full bed.
It does indeed, I've noticed that.
I will be testing a gut mains setup tonight courtesy of levy1. I will use my reference standard cross poly, CoFocus.
And yup U&C, photos shall be taken.
Which gut are you using?
Mystery Gut 16g / MSV CoFocus 1.23mm
Stringing: This playtest is brought to you in part by levy1. He posted that he had found a natural gut supplier having run out of Performaxx. I asked him about it, and he offered to sell me a set to test. I agreed, so here we are! To start: all details about the gut itself will have to be answered by him because I know absolutely nothing whatsoever about where this gut came from or who manufactures it. Now, let's get on to the string.
This is without question in the "cheap" gut class. I have strung the majority of the cheap guts including Global, Mamba, Volley, Unifibre, an unnamed e Bay brand and of course Performaxx. Out of all of these, Performaxx is second to none as far as quality. It truly strings like and appears to be Pacific gut. The mystery gut, however, does not. It is very brittle feeling and has the very rough texture that the rest of the budget guts do. It has, however, a singular advantage over Mamba, Global and Volley, but not Unifibre. Although rough and dry, it is consistent in gauge. It is 1.36mm unstrung per my calipers whereas the Unifibre is 1.33mm in gauge. Now, from set to set, I cannot be sure obviously, but it is fairly uniform although not smooth. There is no protective coating of any sort and has typical budget gut coil memory.
It took me about 8 minutes longer to string this gut than it does with VS, Pacific or Performaxx. The reason is because knowing that it feels like a cheaper gut, I don't want to rush anything whatsoever for fear of it breaking. While weaving the crosses, the roughness is very apparent because the gut does not let you slide the poly into straightening position very easily. After tensioning, the amount of touch-up straightening is exactly like that of the other cheap guts. You get the same "violin" sound when fanning the poly which is indicative of a very rough surface.
So, here's my stringing conclusion. Although less expensive than Performaxx, it is indeed a cheaper gut than Performaxx. I don't have confidence while stringing it, and since it is so thick, I would not want to do this in a full bed. It is not a product I would offer to my customers for the very reason that I cannot guarantee that I will be able to have some recourse in the event of premature breakage. Now, that is a tad unfair since I bought it through someone and not from a company, but given what I've been told, it's not a gut to buy a few sets at a time. In summary, it strings just like the other dry budget guts, but gets marks for being consistent in gauge, but still is not in the same quality league as Performaxx. I will hit with it this evening to give the playability verdict. Strung at 52/47lbs, no prestretch.
Played one hour thus far, and not a fan. It feels even stiffer than Mamba Supra, and there is extremely little feel. So far, it plays very "twiney" like Volley and Unifibre.
That stuff looks a lot like Unifibre.
Hi PV, I am about to try Pacific classic 16L and co focus 1.23. I never use gut before. Can you recommend the tension that I should have for my racket, the Babolat PDR 2012.
I just played with that exact setup last night! I strung at 56/52 (gut/poly). That may be on the high side - but initially this seemed a little too powerful for me and felt a little stiff. At the end of an hour I had the power under control and it seemed to soften a little.
I'd be tempted to loosen it a little next time - but would probably have more control issues.
I noticed on Smasher08's thread on this topic - he is in the low 50's in this setup.
As lacalamar said, Smasher08 has an enormous thread dedicated specifically to that string setup. I'd ask in there since whereas my Dunlops are purposely extremely flexy and low powered, the PDR is a stiff rocket launcher.
He's also using a prestige mid 18x20 pattern. Small headsize with a tight pattern takes his 17g natural gut very well. Open patterns should play with a thicker gauge and increase the tension accordingly. What was just right when I used the Yonex 89 tour is a little too powerful on my 95d.
I notice that you have the co focus cross at 9 lbs lower than the gut. How does it play and is there a purpose of doing that? Sorry, I am learning about gut now. Thanks!
Hit another hour tonight and it's broken in quite a lot. Still not a lot of power and spin, but the feel has finally come through. As of right now, it plays just like Mamba Supra.
As you can tell with what you've probably been reading, there are many methods to string a racket. I use a yonex and I prefer using percentages when taking an initial calculation on how to tension a hybrid. There are two percentages involved - 10% lower poly when compared to a multi or gut string and an additional 5% for the yonex isometric head shape that comes to a total of 15%. A gut main tension of 57 with a poly cross is 57*0.85 = 48.45 lbs. At the moment I have no real complaints about the string bed and these percentages are what I have always used in the yonex line.
I string my vcore 95d at 53/51 for what its worth. sadly though today's let down was my fault not the racquet or strings.
I've read some where in this forum that poly string has the most trampoline effect at around 50-55 lbs. Do you have that same experience? Thanks!
Dude what are you on about, you were hitting some nasty skidding slices. You made that kid in the dark green t-shirt (no idea what his name is, but he's a bigger guy) throw his racquet into the curtain because the slice skidded away from him so much haha. I shouldn't have laughed aloud at that...but I did. And did a few others :lol:
Love it when the big boys throw a tantrum because they can't "hulk-smash" something. Nicely done
Perfect description haha
I hit some semi decent shots, but I was making way to many UE last night, and that is not the way I like to play my game of tennis.
Lets talk strings though, I though that if you had huge differences in tension in the mains and in the crosses that it would warp the frame. Is that not true?
Key distinction: warp, or deform? Deform, yes. Warping is permanent deformation. I had a stringer in MA string my gut/poly which I typically do at 52/47 string it at 57/47. Within an hour I had it back at the pro shop to be re-done. I hit with that stick last night and it's fine. The warping issue really only occurs when you have an acute stress on the frame or a large amount of stress in one direction. For example, I bet you would warp the frame if you strung the mains only, and then unmounted the racquet to finish the crosses later. Someone like tennezsport, Irvin or drakulie would give a better answer.
It depends on the types of string as well. I string the way I do because gut is elastic and poly is much stiffer. Because of this difference I can string the poly much lower than gut. I use percentages while others use a few lb differentials.
Are you acquainted with TennezSport? I actually just got home from a weekly visit to his shop and he's stringing his 98D with Alpha Vengeance at 44lbs mains and 40 crosses. He'd be much better at explaining the deformation of a racket than I can.
I know him on this forum only and know that he's damn brilliant when it comes to equipment.
Indeed. He's damn near an encyclopedia for tennis.
I am also considering a racquet switch. I am looking for something a touch lighter, and more HL. Although the AG100 fits the bill, it just doesn't feel quite there with my new strokes. A client of mine brought in a BLX 6.1 95 16x18. Just swinging it back and forth made me drool. Perfect weight, perfect balance. I need to find one of these frames to test, because unforutnately, Dunlop is not making a stick which has: >93sq", >=11.5oz unstrung, open pattern AND >=6pts HL. The 300 is too light unless you go for the closed pattern. I guess that's worth a shot though, but I just feel like I am losing a lot of RHS with my 200T and wouldn't lose much power if I did switch. Blah, I like strings since they're easy. Frames...hate playtesting.
Vcore 95d? :twisted:
Maybe a Donnay pro one could fit the bill. Slightly larger head size but more closed than both the six one 95 and 4d 200t.
seconded on 95d. good enough for hewitt and woz no?
Yeap, time for the 200T to see the door. Hit with rdis10093...who gave me a 95D to play with haha. It just seemed to click. The balls aren't as heavy, but I don't feel like I'm fighting to get into position to hit the perfect ball every time because otherwise, the frame's going to bite my rear. Since you can't have the perfect prep every time in a match situation, the weight has just become a liability now that I've switched my strokes. Blaaaah, racquet quest is on. Picked up a Prestige MP to demo since the local pro shop really only has Head and Babolat. Two problems: closed string pattern, and the most idiotic grommet setup in the world (cap grommets). Unless this thing is other worldly, I'm pretty sure I should've just left it there.
I was a huge fan of the Wilson 95 16x18. I would gladly have switched, it just wasn't better than my apdgt's and I have to pay for my own rackets. I could easily have played with either though.
Hah, I have to pay for mine too! This won't be an easy switch, and unless Dunlop can somehow save the day (bring back the HM300G!!!!!!!), 'tis adios to my favorite brand
Loving the spin, comfort and lower weight of the Exo Tour.
Teenagers don't exactly have money just laying around (then again neither do college students!)
Even though they said not to, I realllly want to restring this demo racquet. I mean, it's strung with God knows what nylon that's 500 years old and all notched up.
Nobody will notice if you restring...
what about a technifibre tfight 325, only problem is that its not as headlight as the 95d
schwartz center does demoes?
Nope, the shop in downtown.
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