Sampras' thoughts on Fed losing to Nadal at the AO

[GameSampras]

If I were Roger, I would try to come in a little bit more, especially on my serve. I'm sure he's frustrated. He's playing fine. Rafa's just an animal. The guy can play all day, play at a high level for hours.

"I felt for (Roger). He's frustrated, and he wants it so bad. To be at that breaking point, it's affecting him a lot more than I thought." -Sampras




Ive been saying this for quite some time, Roger needs to come in and force the issue a bit against Nadal. This rallying from the baseline with nadal is not going to get it done. Roger seems so stubborn. He thinks he can bully Nadal around from the baseline like he did Hewitt. That aint gonna happen. It may be too late but Roger should develop a nice net game if possible

 

[Bretto]

He needs to believe...!

 

[helloworld]

He needs to believe...!

Believing alone is not enough. You need to have a proper game to beat Nadal. Sampras knows what he's doing. Bring on Sampras vs Nadal!!

 

[edberg505]

If I were Roger, I would try to come in a little bit more, especially on my serve. I'm sure he's frustrated. He's playing fine. Rafa's just an animal. The guy can play all day, play at a high level for hours.

"I felt for (Roger). He's frustrated, and he wants it so bad. To be at that breaking point, it's affecting him a lot more than I thought." -Sampras




Ive been saying this for quite some time, Roger needs to come in and force the issue a bit against Nadal. This rallying from the baseline with nadal is not going to get it done. Roger seems so stubborn. He thinks he can bully Nadal around from the baseline like he did Hewitt. That aint gonna happen. It may be too late but Roger should develop a nice net game if possible

How is it too late? The guy started off serving and volleying. It was one of the reasons I started watching him play in the first place. It just seems now that if he gets passed he's too scared to go back up there in fear of getting passed again. He needs the Edberg, Becker, Sampras mentality. "Good you passed me that time, let's see if you can keep doing it."

 

[alienhamster]

I think it's difficult for him because he's NOT a great net player. He's good, sure, but it's not his go-to game. And when you're under a huge amount of pressure, it's usually wisest not to depend on the weakest parts of your game.

That being said, I can see him trying this sort of strategy IF he's completely losing against Nadal (like at the French last year). But again, it's not like he's being blown out from the baseline. Most of these matches are going a full five sets, so Fed is probably thinking of making small rather than radical strategic changes.

The easiest thing for him to change is to punish the Nadal 2nd serve. Fed hates doing the James Blake style returns of serve, but that's part of why Blake is so effective against Nadal. Take the risk so you don't let Nadal get ahead in the rally.

 

[veroniquem]

If I were Roger, I would try to come in a little bit more, especially on my serve. I'm sure he's frustrated. He's playing fine. Rafa's just an animal. The guy can play all day, play at a high level for hours.

"I felt for (Roger). He's frustrated, and he wants it so bad. To be at that breaking point, it's affecting him a lot more than I thought." -Sampras




Ive been saying this for quite some time, Roger needs to come in and force the issue a bit against Nadal. This rallying from the baseline with nadal is not going to get it done. Roger seems so stubborn. He thinks he can bully Nadal around from the baseline like he did Hewitt. That aint gonna happen. It may be too late but Roger should develop a nice net game if possible

He can't come in all the time against Nadal, first he's not good enough at volleying, second he won't be able to control Nadal's heavy spin at the net, third he's gonna get passed every time. Against Nadal you have to mix it up and I'm sure he's trying but it's easier said than done. Another strategy would be to attack (even from the baseline) and go for the winner every time like Verdasco did, the problem is that even if you're in a good day and you paint the line a lot, this is a high risk strategy and you're gonna have a lot of UEs too. It's also a strategy that is very hard to maintain over a long period of time.

 

[araghava]

while i agree with sampras's assesment, it's a lot easier for sampras than federer. for sampras, serve and volley was not only his plan A, it would probably have been his only plan.

his attitude was to bring his game and lets the chips fall.

unfortunately for fed, coming to the net is plan B and he's not that comfortable at the net anymore. by the time he switches to plan B, he's already a set or so down and it's almost impossible to catch up.

 

[edberg505]

He can't come in all the time against Nadal, first he's not good enough at volleying, second he won't be able to control Nadal's heavy spin at the net, third he's gonna get passed every time. Against Nadal you have to mix it up and I'm sure he's trying but it's easier said than done. Another strategy would be to attack (even from the baseline) and go for the winner every time like Verdasco did, the problem is that even if you're in a good day and you paint the line a lot, this is a high risk strategy and you're gonna have a lot of UEs too. It's also a strategy that is very hard to maintain over a long period of time.

What the hell? I guess that must have been some other guy I was watching at Wimbledon 2001 and 2003. Tsonga didn't get passed everytime and neither did Mahut or Guccione. Nadal leaves a high floating ball on his returns of serve a lot and no one seems to want to take advantage of that. As much of a tool I think Justin Gimelstob is he said something very wise. He said when you are serving and volleying or have a sitter go behind a very fast person and if the person is not so mobile go for the open court. I still think any person that attacks a lot or has a decent serve and volley game will give Nadal all sorts of problems.

 

[Puma]

while i agree with sampras's assesment, it's a lot easier for sampras than federer. for sampras, serve and volley was not only his plan A, it would probably have been his only plan.

his attitude was to bring his game and lets the chips fall.

unfortunately for fed, coming to the net is plan B and he's not that comfortable at the net anymore. by the time he switches to plan B, he's already a set or so down and it's almost impossible to catch up.

And Fed does not serve anywhere near the quality serves that Sampras did/does. That was really evident in the exhibition matches the two played. The difference in power and ball speed you could hear and see on tv. I wonder what its like in person! It looks on tv like Sampras has a topspin first serve that goes 120 and jumps off the court.

I wish I could see that up close and in person.

 

[Puma]

Also, in my opinion as time goes by Sampras serve and his ability to serve gets better and better. Every year we begin to see newer younger players, tall, strong, who can hit bombing serves. But, no one seems to be able to use it the way Sampras did. And Sampras was only what, 6' tall?

 

[jackson vile]

Roger needs an Olympic traininer, a nutritionist, and finally a hypnotist.

All in that order, other wise Roger needs to do what Roger does best.

If he listens to other people on this board he is sure to lose.

 

[mikeler]

I agree that he does seem to give up on the net game after he gets passed a few times. I also agree that he needs to go for a little more on his returns. He hardly gets any breaks against Nadal, so he might as well take some more cuts at the ball like James Blake does.

 

[JankovicFan]

deleted to withdraw from thread

 

[helloworld]

And Fed does not serve anywhere near the quality serves that Sampras did/does. That was really evident in the exhibition matches the two played. The difference in power and ball speed you could hear and see on tv. I wonder what its like in person! It looks on tv like Sampras has a topspin first serve that goes 120 and jumps off the court.

I wish I could see that up close and in person.

That's the magic of Sampras serve. It's basically a heavy topspin serve than goes well over 120 mph. It's heavy, fast, accurate, and reliable. It's the perfect serve.

 

[vtmike]

He can't come in all the time against Nadal, first he's not good enough at volleying, second he won't be able to control Nadal's heavy spin at the net, third he's gonna get passed every time. Against Nadal you have to mix it up and I'm sure he's trying but it's easier said than done. Another strategy would be to attack (even from the baseline) and go for the winner every time like Verdasco did, the problem is that even if you're in a good day and you paint the line a lot, this is a high risk strategy and you're gonna have a lot of UEs too. It's also a strategy that is very hard to maintain over a long period of time.

IMO Its easier to control nadal's heavy topspin at the net than from the baseline...

 

[theProdigy]

fed's serve IMO is good enough to come in with...BUT having stayed back for so long and now, basically is a baseliner, fed's volleying mechanics are not good enough. he stretches for volleys, doesn't move his feet well enough up at net and goes for too many of those ridiculous drive volleys.

 

[tennis-hero]

Sampras's serve was SOOOO good that if he got to 50% of his prime, he'd go deep at fast hard court slams even today- i really believe that

and mentally he's not going to throw it away, thats for sure

 

[pepe01]

Pete is right

Pete is right, Federer needs to look for something new, he is keeping playing as same way than before, result will be same.

Slice, net game, avoid long points, and increase first serve %......and of course hire a coach.

Roger needs to go down from his clowd and see that he needs something new to defeat Nadal, go to basics, and forget all those slams won.

Just as a comment but will be great to see Sampras as a coach of Federer searching for that 14 and 15 slams, ironic dont you think?.

Any way, Federer has a great chance at RG, but he needs to work hard and do something different to play against Rafa on clay.

I saw entire match against Verdasco, Fernando putted a great example how to play against Rafa, he went to net, used slice, first service % haigh, never allow Rafa to set his game.

I need another RG final Rafa vs Roger.

 

[ksbh]

Pete's serve was a work of art. You could just watch his serve all match and not get tired!

Also, I don't ever remember Pete lacking self-belief in the most important matches. He was a mental giant. I remember watching the 2000 Wimbledon final against Pat Rafter. Pete was 1 set down and trailing in the 2nd set tie-breaker. It seemed like a lost cause. His comeback from that point was awe-inspiring. Contrast that to the attitude of the current GOAT candidate, Roger Federer.

It's a pity that players of Sampras' calibre don't exist any more.

That's the magic of Sampras serve. It's basically a heavy topspin serve than goes well over 120 mph. It's heavy, fast, accurate, and reliable. It's the perfect serve.

 

[fastdunn]

How is it too late? The guy started off serving and volleying. It was one of the reasons I started watching him play in the first place.

Since he hit the tour, he has been always a baseliner. In around 1999-2000, I saw him playing 90% baseline at indoor tournaments and I saw him crushing Michael Chang from baseline at US Open. Well he did some S&V at Wimbledon up until 2003 but that's when everybody including clay courters would try S&V. When I first saw him, I though he was a clay courter (with some all court flavor). I do not recall, at any time in his career, he was ever truely successful at the net. I am with Brad Gilbert on this one, he is a hard core baseliner. Basically same kind as Nadal. That's why they are dominating modern tennis. The bottom line is that Federer is tasting his own medicine now.

 

[wihamilton]

Ive been saying this for quite some time, Roger needs to come in and force the issue a bit against Nadal. This rallying from the baseline with nadal is not going to get it done. Roger seems so stubborn. He thinks he can bully Nadal around from the baseline like he did Hewitt. That aint gonna happen. It may be too late but Roger should develop a nice net game if possible

I dunno. On anything other than clay I still think the game is in the margins. Tighten a few screws and Federer will beat Nadal consistently. For example, look at Federer's break point conversion rate for his last two matches... it was awful. If it was mediocre he would have won both matches in ~4.

 

[edberg505]

Since he hit the tour, he has been always a baseliner. In around 1999-2000, I saw him playing 90% baseline at indoor tournaments and I saw him crushing Michael Chang from baseline at US Open. Well he did some S&V at Wimbledon up until 2003 but that's when everybody including clay courters would try S&V. When I first saw him, I though he was a clay courter (with some all court flavor). I do not recall, at any time in his career, he was ever truely successful at the net. I am with Brad Gilbert on this one, he is a hard core baseliner. Basically same kind as Nadal. That's why they are dominating modern tennis. The bottom line is that Federer is tasting his own medicine now.

Hmm, I never saw this. Got any video of it?

 

[BreakPoint]

He can't come in all the time against Nadal, first he's not good enough at volleying, second he won't be able to control Nadal's heavy spin at the net, third he's gonna get passed every time. Against Nadal you have to mix it up and I'm sure he's trying but it's easier said than done. Another strategy would be to attack (even from the baseline) and go for the winner every time like Verdasco did, the problem is that even if you're in a good day and you paint the line a lot, this is a high risk strategy and you're gonna have a lot of UEs too. It's also a strategy that is very hard to maintain over a long period of time.

I can guarantee that if Federer SERVED AND volleyed that he will not get passed "every time". Do you want to put money on it?

We're talking about SERVE AND volley. Which is completely different than hit an approach shot and then come into the net. Just look at where Nadal stands to receive serve. He's a serve and volleyer's you know what dream.

 

[Dash]

I think it is too hard for Fed to implement more SV or coming in after good approach shot.
1. If Roger serves a good 1st serve, there won't be a need for him to come in and he will finish off the weak return easily.
2. Against Rafael, Roger's 2nd serve is his Achilles' heel. He has a great kicker, which is effective against most righties. But it doesn't work well against Rafael because he is lefty and stay so far back. Roger's slicer is ok but not penetrating enough. If he wants to come in on 2nd serve, he will need a hefty racket like Pete's PS85 to produce a fast, heavy, topspin and well-disguised 2nd serve.
3. In baseline rally, Roger starts to get bullied by Rafael and other young guns. He doesn't get many short balls to approach on. Rafael is a great mover and shot-maker. How many have we seen Roger got passed even after quality approach shots?
4. I think Roger has been over-confident for the last 2 years or so. He knew young guns were coming. They run faster, hit harder and learn quicker. Roger should have built up more power to hang in with them. Just looking at changes in the body types of Pete and Andrea, they were not getting faster late in their career but they got more muscular, became more explosive, hit the balls harder.

 

[BreakPoint]

What the hell? I guess that must have been some other guy I was watching at Wimbledon 2001 and 2003. Tsonga didn't get passed everytime and neither did Mahut or Guccione. Nadal leaves a high floating ball on his returns of serve a lot and no one seems to want to take advantage of that. As much of a tool I think Justin Gimelstob is he said something very wise. He said when you are serving and volleying or have a sitter go behind a very fast person and if the person is not so mobile go for the open court. I still think any person that attacks a lot or has a decent serve and volley game will give Nadal all sorts of problems.

Totally agree 100%.

Few players have a chance against Nadal from the baseline. Serve and volley is the way to go. Take advantage of Nadal's poor positioning on returns of serve and his floating returns. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[aqgardezi]

One thing that we all forgetting is. Ball specs changed by ATP n most of the court surface r slow which luckily help nasal style game play n which ruins the s&v game

 

[TheMagicianOfPrecision]

I think it's difficult for him because he's NOT a great net player. He's good, sure, but it's not his go-to game. And when you're under a huge amount of pressure, it's usually wisest not to depend on the weakest parts of your game.

That being said, I can see him trying this sort of strategy IF he's completely losing against Nadal (like at the French last year). But again, it's not like he's being blown out from the baseline. Most of these matches are going a full five sets, so Fed is probably thinking of making small rather than radical strategic changes.

The easiest thing for him to change is to punish the Nadal 2nd serve. Fed hates doing the James Blake style returns of serve, but that's part of why Blake is so effective against Nadal. Take the risk so you don't let Nadal get ahead in the rally.

I totally agree with you, Blake often punishes the Nadal 2nd serve a lot and so does Tsonga and sometimes Djokovic.

 

[Mick]

i am surprised that sampras would want to give federer advice on how to play nadal, considering that advice may help federer tie and later on break sampras' own grand slam record.

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Anyone got a link to Pete's interview please.

 

[Dash]

One more thought.
To come in more, Roger needs a mentality of gambling, which means playing the percentage and the score. If you believe it is gonna work in a long run, stay with it, no matter how many times you get passed early on. However, Roger is a perfectionist, who loves control and style. Even sometime he comes in, he tends to overplay a little bit.

 

[bolo]

I would love to see federer come in more on faster surfaces. If he can convert a bit more than usual he might turn a wimbledon type match in his favor.

But I would say he needs better approach shots if he is going to be coming in more often. Less topspin, less in the middle of the court.

 

[Andyk028]

IMO Its easier to control nadal's heavy topspin at the net than from the baseline...

because you play net against him all the time??

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

Fed's ability at the net is sooo overated he's fine coming in when he's hammering nobodies but against the top players he frezes and misses too many easy volleys.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

Fed's ability at the net is sooo overated he's fine coming in when he's hammering nobodies but against the top players he frezes and misses too many easy volleys.

I completely agree with you. Sometimes he hits good volleys and other times misses the most simple ones.

 

[YouCantBeSerious]

i am surprised that sampras would want to give federer advice on how to play nadal, considering that advice may help federer tie and later on break sampras' own grand slam record.

I think that if Sampras had wanted to give Fed advice on how to beat Nadal, he would have given it to him in private (since they are good buddies and have each other's number.) This is not advice, it's more like a mental game to put pressure on Fed. Sampras is a genius.

 

[danb]

He can't come in all the time against Nadal, first he's not good enough at volleying, second he won't be able to control Nadal's heavy spin at the net, third he's gonna get passed every time. Against Nadal you have to mix it up and I'm sure he's trying but it's easier said than done. Another strategy would be to attack (even from the baseline) and go for the winner every time like Verdasco did, the problem is that even if you're in a good day and you paint the line a lot, this is a high risk strategy and you're gonna have a lot of UEs too. It's also a strategy that is very hard to maintain over a long period of time.

I don't think anybody knows for sure how to beat Rafa...:twisted:
But yes, Fed has to make some changes

 

[illkhiboy]

Hmm, I never saw this. Got any video of it?

I don't know about 2003 cause I wasn't watching tennis then but I remember Courier S&V on his first serves in 1993. Moya was volleying a lot when he played Henman in 2007.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Fed's game strategy against Nadal was just fine given how horrible of a matchup Nadal really is for him. Nadal is very good with passing shots and Fed broke Nadal many times in the Australian Open Final. James Blake has lost the last 2 meetings against Nadal. Fed will never be able to hit like Blake but Blake will never be able to hit like Fed.

 

[Thor]

Federer won 72% of points when he came to the net,enough said

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Federer won 72% of points when he came to the net,enough said

Fed only comes to the net when he is in control of the point. Nadal will own him if he comes to the net on weak approaches.

 

[thejoe]

Fed only comes to the net when he is in control of the point. Nadal will own him if he comes to the net on weak approaches.

I agree, but behind decent serves? It would be something to try.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

I agree, but behind decent serves? It would be something to try.

I don't think Fed is as quick to the net as Sampras was. Thus I don't think he'll be in the best position to volley off his serve.

 

[thejoe]

I don't think Fed is as quick to the net as Sampras was. Thus I don't think he'll be in the best position to volley off his serve.

Probably not, but with Nadal's more floaty returns, you don't think he'd be at the net in time? He did it at Wimbledon with enormous returns coming at him, and fair enough, he isn't as quick now, but he is no slouch.

 

[Thor]

Fed only comes to the net when he is in control of the point. Nadal will own him if he comes to the net on weak approaches.

No he wouldnt.
In Rome 2006,a clay court,Federer won 76% of points at the net.

In both matches(Australia and Rome) Federer won over 70% of net points and finished with more points total.

Federer was most successful coming in,he owes it to himself to try at least once to attack the net on a regular basis vs Nadal,especially on 1st serves.

 

[edberg505]

Fed only comes to the net when he is in control of the point. Nadal will own him if he comes to the net on weak approaches.

LMAO, think about what you just typed for a min.

 

[TennisandMusic]

I think all of these "what does Fed need to do" threads are bordering on extremely disrespectful of Nadal's game, and I've seen these kinds of things since 2005 when people were only asking "What does Fed need to do to beat Nadal on clay?" Now it has turned into, what can Roger do to win.

Does anyone ever discuss the fact that Nadal is STILL improving? That perhaps the match isn't solely on Federer's racquet and that there is another world class talent (Sorry BP) on the other side of the net? This would be akin to saying "What does Roddick need to do to beat Federer" as if it were solely up to Roddick. Federer just needs to play really badly for Roddick to win because Federer is far and away a better player.

It is a similar situation for Nadal right now. He is just a better player than Federer, period. Certainly not to the extent of Roddick/Federer, not even close. But if Nadal plays 100%, I think at this point he wins on any surface. Perhaps thats why Federer broke down and bawled. He knows he just isn't the best anymore.

Now all of this talk like "Federer will never beat Nadal again!" is silly at this point. I'm sure Federer will win against Nadal a few more times at least. However, the notion that Federer simply has to "figure him out" is absurd. Nadal is good. He will win matches on his own terms sometimes people. Stop acting like Federer is in complete control of every outcome. Believing that is what is referred too as "denial."

 

[Nadal_Freak]

LMAO, think about what you just typed for a min.

I did. Fed's percentages against Nadal are high because he is finishing off a point that was well constructed. Coming to the net against Nadal is not a great strategy. Only used when finishing off a point or you'll get burned.

 

[thejoe]

I think all of these "what does Fed need to do" threads are bordering on extremely disrespectful of Nadal's game, and I've seen these kinds of things since 2005 when people were only asking "What does Fed need to do to beat Nadal on clay?" Now it has turned into, what can Roger do to win.

Does anyone ever discuss the fact that Nadal is STILL improving? That perhaps the match isn't solely on Federer's racquet and that there is another world class talent (Sorry BP) on the other side of the net? This would be akin to saying "What does Roddick need to do to beat Federer" as if it were solely up to Roddick. Federer just needs to play really badly for Roddick to win because Federer is far and away a better player.

It is a similar situation for Nadal right now. He is just a better player than Federer, period. Certainly not to the extent of Roddick/Federer, not even close. But if Nadal plays 100%, I think at this point he wins on any surface. Perhaps thats why Federer broke down and bawled. He knows he just isn't the best anymore.

Now all of this talk like "Federer will never beat Nadal again!" is silly at this point. I'm sure Federer will win against Nadal a few more times at least. However, the notion that Federer simply has to "figure him out" is absurd. Nadal is good. He will win matches on his own terms sometimes people. Stop acting like Federer is in complete control of every outcome. Believing that is what is referred too as "denial."

It is on Federer's racquet.

EDIT:

I did. Fed's percentages against Nadal are high because he is finishing off a point that was well constructed. Coming to the net against Nadal is not a great strategy. Only used when finishing off a point or you'll get burned.

Not true. Utter bollocks. If you come in behind the right approach shot, he is almost as vulnerable as everyone else. If you approach poorly against anyone, you'll get burned.

 

[Thor]

I think all of these "what does Fed need to do" threads are bordering on extremely disrespectful of Nadal's game, and I've seen these kinds of things since 2005 when people were only asking "What does Fed need to do to beat Nadal on clay?" Now it has turned into, what can Roger do to win.

Does anyone ever discuss the fact that Nadal is STILL improving? That perhaps the match isn't solely on Federer's racquet and that there is another world class talent (Sorry BP) on the other side of the net? This would be akin to saying "What does Roddick need to do to beat Federer" as if it were solely up to Roddick. Federer just needs to play really badly for Roddick to win because Federer is far and away a better player.

It is a similar situation for Nadal right now. He is just a better player than Federer, period. Certainly not to the extent of Roddick/Federer, not even close. But if Nadal plays 100%, I think at this point he wins on any surface. Perhaps thats why Federer broke down and bawled. He knows he just isn't the best anymore.

Now all of this talk like "Federer will never beat Nadal again!" is silly at this point. I'm sure Federer will win against Nadal a few more times at least. However, the notion that Federer simply has to "figure him out" is absurd. Nadal is good. He will win matches on his own terms sometimes people. Stop acting like Federer is in complete control of every outcome. Believing that is what is referred too as "denial."

Im a Nadal fan and i thank the stars for every Nadal Federer match where federer chooses to stay back.
Although it would be interesting to watch Fed S&V on every point and coming in much more,from a Nadal fan prespective it is a worrying idea...

 

[TennisandMusic]

It is on Federer's racquet.

Nice thoughtful reply. Well if it's on Federer's racquet he's an awful player then. You can't have your cake and eat it too.