I think I understood. I just made a reasonable inference. if that's not a reasonable enough for you, excuse me.
Sports Biomech. 2002 Jan;1(1):47-68.
The one- and two-handed backhands in tennis.
Reid M, Elliott B.
Source
International Tennis Federation, London, UK.
Abstract
The study investigated differences in the one- (SH) and two-handed (DH) backhands when hit flat, across-court (AC) and down-the-line (DL), and with heavy topspin DL (TDL). The ability to disguise each of these backhands when hitting the above strokes was also assessed. Eighteen college-level male tennis players, identified as having a high performance topspin SH (n = 6) or DH (n = 12) backhand drive, participated in the study. Players were required to hit three AC, DL and TDL backhands from the baseline with their preferred technique, while being filmed with two high-speed video cameras operating at 200 Hz. The highest horizontal velocity backhand for each stroke was analysed. Results indicated that the sequential coordination of five body segments (hips, shoulder, upper arm, forearm, and hand/racquet rotations) was required for the execution of the SH stroke. The same number of segments were generally coordinated in the DH stroke (hips, shoulders, and varying degrees of upper arm and forearm rotations followed by hand/racquet movement).
Mature players produced comparable racquet horizontal velocities 0.005 s prior to impact using either the SH or DH backhand technique.
The SH backhand was characterised by a more rotated shoulder alignment than the DH stroke (SH: 119.1 degrees; DH: 83.4 degrees) at the completion of the backswing. At impact the ball was impacted further in front (SH: 0.59 m: DH: 0.40 m) and a similar distance to the side of the body (SH: 0.75 m: DH: 0.70 m). Players using the DH backhand technique delayed the horizontal acceleration of the racquet towards the ball (SH: 0.13 s: DH: 0.08 s prior to impact) and thus were capable of displaying a similar hitting motion closer to impact than players with a SH technique.
sorry not a good piece of writing. you buy into this?
Hi,
please specify which parts are bad from your point of view
My angle is as follows:
1."Power" of 1hbh vs 2hbh looks comparable according to the paper I quote for a specific group of college
students selected for this paper
2.I teach some combos of 2hbh with 1hbh.
Meaning majority of shots are hit with 2hbh
"Combos" do depend on a court location.
I teach 1hbh slice and volleys
I teach 1hbh for transition game
3.I am NOT sure about the quote from the original link
"Two handed backhand:
1. more stable racket at the moment of impact"
I am NOT even sure that I know what is the defintion of stable for this case.
Ash,Borami - I'm with you on this - I read the piece and came to pretty much the same conclusion, it is not a scientific analysis, nor is it an objective study, it is merely one person's opinions wrapped up as "fact".
You could pretty much re-write the piece swapping 1 hander and 2 hander around and it would read much the same and still make sense!
For example...
"More versatile- one hander is much more versatile than two hander. With one hander you can hit drive,different topspins,topspin lob,short topspin cross,half-volley,balls on the rise,high balls with topspin or on the rise,and all these different shots are much more easier to execute on one hand (much higher percentage of success), and with more variation .Furthermore , players who use one handed backhand easyly transfer this technique to hit slice and volleys (very difficult shots hit with two hand)"
And you can't dispute that, as those are "facts"
Cheers
Ash,
there are 2 issues left:
1.what is amount of side spin for 1hbh vs 2hbh?
2.is it possible for incorporate elements of ATP forehand
into 2bh?
If yes what are possible implications?
If have tried to "touch" item #2 somewhere above
regards,
Julian
IMO,it would be good to bring Ash back into this thread.When switching or learning a 1h as a newbie, how old do you think is the appropriate time to switch for juniors without there being any health hazards?
A bit "orthogonal issue"?I have to laugh at this idea 1hbh can be a health hazard. if taught and performed wrong it could be but what else isn't? key is to wait until the student can faithfully follow instruction and find a coach who has very very good 1hbh.
A bit "orthogonal issue"?
>>just had to make sure. had to check dictionary. what do you mean?
If one switches what to do to with return of serve?
>>learn how to return in 1hbh. find a coach who can teach this skill.
I had multiple cases like that and an answer is NOT a piece of cake.
>>cuz you can't teach 1hbh return. not many coaches who can teach good 1hbh period.
Slicing a la Federer is NOT a great answer,IMO
>>fed will smack 1hbh return on anything less than top pros serves. but even with those slices he's won more matches than most pros ever did and ever will.
I do NOT advice to do a switch during a middle of a high school season,etc,etc
>>me neither. but one can learn and practice 1hbh while playing matches in 2hbh for some time.
IMO,it would be good to bring Ash back into this thread.
I have failed in this regard
Ash,
there are 2 issues left:
1.what is amount of side spin for 1hbh vs 2hbh?
2.is it possible for incorporate elements of ATP forehand
into 2bh?
If yes what are possible implications?
If have tried to "touch" item #2 somewhere above
regards,
Julian
When switching or learning a 1h as a newbie, how old do you think is the appropriate time to switch for juniors without there being any health hazards?
Ash,I am back!
Side spin - not sure! Maybe JY has studied? My hunch would be single has greater, but the dominance of the hands in the 2 hander may effect this (top hand dominance may increase the amount of side spin???)
2. Elements yes, but I like a greater amount of extension from the top hand on my ideal 2 hander, so that probably doesn't map across exactly like the typical double bend ATP forehand. However, GRF, hip rotation, drive position etc can all be practiced as a lefty forehand and incorporated into a righties 2 hander without question.
I think the women's 2 handers are generally more like the forehand as they tend to maintain the double bend structure in both arms for the duration of the shot so for a right hander it is like a lefty forehand.
I do NOT have the full text of the paper.nice study but mostly easily predictable findings I think. one question. "delayed the horizontal acceleration of the racquet towards the ball" could you explain?
The answer is multilevel: only superior coaches know how to teach a good 1HB. It's easier to learn a 1HB at a young age.
I guess you meant to say easier to learn the 2 hander at young age?
^^^don't guess anything
I taught myself a one-hander, and I must have that spine imbalance because whenever I try to hit a two-hander, I can't seem to get forward momentum, everything is just leaning back when I hit it. lol
LONG LIVE THE 1 HANDED BACKHAND.
So this data says that a 1hbh and a 2hbh produce the same racquet speed 0.005 s before impact. OK. Good data point.
As a one-handed backhander i find this a very interesting discussion.
If we look at empirical evidence, is the one-handed backhand really worse?
5 of the current top 20 in the world have them (Federer, Gasquet, Almagro, Warwinka, Kohlschreiber; 6 if you make it the top 21 and include Haas); they are successful on a variety of surfaces and with different overall styles of play. I don't know if 25% of the players in their generation(s) were trained on that stroke.
Anyway, I'm just glad that people are even discussing the one-hander and hopefully there will be a better understanding of the stroke and how to use and teach it properly. We can use all the resources we can get!
arguably the biggest disadvantage for 1hbh is time.... time required to prepare.... time you can afford on the european clay.. you can stand back and take a big cut.
time you cannot afford on hard courts.
Problem here....\
It IS arguable.
And 1hbh is easy to cheat to a slice.
And grip change needs to be more accurate.
And body posture needs to be the same every time, as late changes are hard to compensate.
I use a 1hbh exclusively for the last 20 years.
My competitive days I used only a 2hbh for topspin, a 1hbh for defensive slices.
honestly i have not found 1 clip in the public domain that really address the issues 1hb players face - open stance, high balls being 2 of them.... every guru shows a couple of shots at waist high
that's the point... the posture.... requires time to get there..
you can hit open stance, but not ideal.
and sure, technique is more important than 2hbh with which you can hit half ass.....
honestly i have not found 1 clip in the public domain that really address the issues 1hb players face - open stance, high balls being 2 of them.... every guru shows a couple of shots at waist high
Very very good point and one that I have raised several times on this forum. 1 handed BH videos on the Internet do not address the high ball and the jamming ball issue, and show only sunny-day scenario balls being hit.