Spin Potential

[cluelessmoose]

So I understand that a poly gives more spin potential than a nylon string... but why is this?

Will a hybrid of a poly in the mains and multifilament crosses have the same spin potential as a full bed of polly? maby more or less potential?

what about kevlar strings vs polys?

thanks in advance :3

 

[TennisNinja]

Well some polys are shaped or roughened, which helps.

 

[Anton]

Poly strings seem to snap back more smoothly then sgut - basically the ball hits the strings and in the moment before it's departure the poly springs back into original position helping out the topspin, sgut just gets stuck more and you have to fix it, by hand.

The measured difference was about 20% more spin for poly over sgut.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovement.php

 

[cluelessmoose]

Poly strings seem to snap back more smoothly then sgut - basically the ball hits the strings and in the moment before it's departure the poly springs back into original position helping out the topspin, sgut just gets stuck more and you have to fix it, by hand.

The measured difference was about 20% more spin for poly over sgut.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovement.php

i see

so if i used the said hybrid the poly would get stuck on the multi so it wouldn't help? lol

 

[cluelessmoose]

well is this correct or not? XD

 

[nvottennis]

No... i would think it would be just as spin potential.. maybe a bit more if it was a full bed of poly

 

[Anton]

i see

so if i used the said hybrid the poly would get stuck on the multi so it wouldn't help? lol

No tests to confirm the hybrids, but probably yes, if you see your strings are not snapping back much thats not a good sign for spin.

 

[Toad]

What I have found from extensive testing (and what I think is generally agreed upon) is as stiffness increases and as gauge decreases, spin potential increases. I have yet to find a string that has more spin potential than 18 ga. Kevlar.

 

[pvaudio]

What I have found from extensive testing (and what I think is generally agreed upon) is as stiffness increases and as gauge decreases, spin potential increases. I have yet to find a string that has more spin potential than 18 ga. Kevlar.

Kirschbaum Spiky Shark and Pro Supex are if not the two, then two of the top five best spin producing strings available, and Spiky Shark in particular is one of the softest polys available. That string just makes you a miracle worker.

 

[MuscleWeave]

I'm gonna attempt an explanation; but it's really more of a guess.

The poly is more of a mushy string than sgut and multis (at tension). This mushiness deforms the string at impact, where the ball deforms the bed more in the cases of sg and multi. The deformation of the poly string de-celerates the ball at the string level, where ball bite happens, giving the string more contact time to put spin on the ball.

 

[Austinthecity]

I've been thinking about this recently and I actually think there are two types of spin potential.

I think one of the types is where the string "grips" the ball. This happens with shaped polys, textured polys, and from what I've heard: thinner gauge strings. The extra friction helps to grip the ball causing more spin.

However, I think there is another type of spin potential from when you start to hit the peepee out of the ball. I think this spin potential is when the ball actually starts to flatten out on the racket from impact and the spin comes from hitting through the ball while the ball is deformed.

Personally, I get more spin (from what I can tell) from just a soft, thick poly string (non-textured) when I swing hard. When I tried a rough string, my balls flew like 8 feet out and I couldn't perceive any more spin. It's like my racket gripped the ball more and just made it fly farther.

 

[pvaudio]

I'm gonna attempt an explanation; but it's really more of a guess.

The poly is more of a mushy string than sgut and multis (at tension). This mushiness deforms the string at impact, where the ball deforms the bed more in the cases of sg and multi. The deformation of the poly string de-celerates the ball at the string level, where ball bite happens, giving the string more contact time to put spin on the ball.

I don't know where you heard this, but I really want to see some evidence since it makes absolutely no logical or physical sense.

 

[Anton]

I'm gonna attempt an explanation; but it's really more of a guess.

The poly is more of a mushy string than sgut and multis (at tension). This mushiness deforms the string at impact, where the ball deforms the bed more in the cases of sg and multi. The deformation of the poly string de-celerates the ball at the string level, where ball bite happens, giving the string more contact time to put spin on the ball.

Poly is a stiffer material then sgut and multi (at tension).

By your theory natural gut should have the most spin, as it is the stretchiest.

 

[Toad]

Kirschbaum Spiky Shark and Pro Supex are if not the two, then two of the top five best spin producing strings available, and Spiky Shark in particular is one of the softest polys available. That string just makes you a miracle worker.

I have tested Pro Supex Blue Gear 17 ga. and can confidently say 17 ga. and 18 ga. Kevlar produces, at the very least, as much spin. I did like that string but it broke to quick for me. I have a set of Kirschbaum Spiky Shark that I am going to test out soon so can't comment on that one yet. I have high hopes for it though.

 

[Donny0627]

Also polys dont move alot so that helps create spin

 

[retlod]

Also polys dont move alot so that helps create spin

They *do* move, though...at least while the ball is on the strings. It's the snap-back to their original position that helps impart more spin on the ball.

 

[MuscleWeave]

I don't know where you heard this, but I really want to see some evidence since it makes absolutely no logical or physical sense.

The only thing I heard is that poly strings de-celerate the ball and I thought about it from there. And if you think about it, it does make logical and physical sense.

Poly strings don't elongate much during tensioning. This leaves more diameter for the string to give while stopping the ball. Because the poly stringbed is more of a solid wall (due to lower string elasticity), the onus is put on the individual strings to stop the ball through string deformation. During this deformation more spin is imparted to the ball.

As described above, using thicker and softer poly and swinging hard gives alot of spin. These strings are exhibiting what happens for all poly strings, especially compared to sg and multis. Gut seems to manage to keep enough softness, even under tension, to decelerate the ball well and provide good spin.

Sorry, no hard evidence. Has anyone had experiences that support or refute this musing?

 

[naturallight]

I think it's simply because poly's are much less elastic. When the ball hits the strings, they don't give, and thus the strings bite into the ball rather than moving with the ball.

 

[Anton]

The only thing I heard is that poly strings de-celerate the ball and I thought about it from there. And if you think about it, it does make logical and physical sense.

Poly strings don't elongate much during tensioning. This leaves more diameter for the string to give while stopping the ball. Because the poly stringbed is more of a solid wall (due to lower string elasticity), the onus is put on the individual strings to stop the ball through string deformation. During this deformation more spin is imparted to the ball.

As described above, using thicker and softer poly and swinging hard gives alot of spin. These strings are exhibiting what happens for all poly strings, especially compared to sg and multis. Gut seems to manage to keep enough softness, even under tension, to decelerate the ball well and provide good spin.

Sorry, no hard evidence. Has anyone had experiences that support or refute this musing?

yes:
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/spinexperiment.php

 

[Chris Rizutto]

I think it's simply because poly's are much less elastic. When the ball hits the strings, they don't give, and thus the strings bite into the ball rather than moving with the ball.

I agree and the beuty of the soft poly strings like BAM. It allows some ball pocketing and bite.

 

[jrod]

This has been debated ad nauseum on these boards. At one point even the TW professor posted some data which added to the confusion. I think that perhaps the most accurate summary to date on which string type/combo maximizes spin production is that there is no single solution that applies to everyone.

It's interesting to read what works for different players, but it's difficult to know whether their formula will translate to your own game. After years of experimentation I know what works best for me: gut mains with a smooth co-poly cross. The resiliency and elasticity of the gut sliding on the smooth co-poly produces extreme spin (with proper technique), feels great, retains it's playing characteristics (with the right poly) and is reasonably economical (~20 hours, not a string breaker).

 

[MuscleWeave]

yes:
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/spinexperiment.php

Thank you, that was a very useful link. Unfortunately, it describes 'that' poly strings impart more spin, not 'how' they do it. Interesting read though.

 

[Anton]

Thank you, that was a very useful link. Unfortunately, it describes 'that' poly strings impart more spin, not 'how' they do it. Interesting read though.

Here:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovement.php

"What if the strings moved and snapped back into position while the ball was still on them? That would produce a tangential torque on the ball that would cause more spin. Theoretically, strings that stored the most energy in tangential string movement and returned to position without getting stuck by friction would spin the ball more. The key was that the moved string had to have enough energy to overcome the friction on its return to equilibrium and that the ball still had to be in contact with the strings long enough and with enough force to create sufficient friction to increase spin by the observed amounts.

The videos above, for the most part (and given the restraint of only seeing 600 fps), seem to support this view that tangential string movement is a contributing factor in spin. Fourteen identical racquets strung with 7 different strings at two tensions (52 and 62 pounds) were tested. You can see from the videos that polyester strings tend to move farther, more strings move, and strings move in more places (front, center, back of ball) than with either gut or nylon."