Surface of original French Championships (1891-1925)

Q&M son

Professional
There is a very pretty picture in Gilles Delamarre's Roland Garros centenary, taken in 1900. The court surface has a silvery ashen greyish tone. Naturally there is a lady in the frame dressed in a white frock, with other white accents: a male player at the back of the court, the umpire's hat . . . though not a single line!
But it is not a full view of the court and perhaps the angle from which the picture is taken is too low.

Hi liesl,
how do you search those books on archives.org???
Thanks.
Lucio
 
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Borgforever

Hall of Fame
Great posts Liesl.

So you're stating evidence for the Racing Club as the first venue and when did Puteaux run the show?

By the way -- where's the work your compiling to be found if one is to able to review or submit feedback?

Keep posting...
 

newmark401

Professional
"Unfortunately my French is really very poor! So I need help in translating accurately:

"Des courts qui se multiplient, des clubs qui grandissent conduisent naturellement au lancement d'un Championnat de France. C'est, sans doute, un titre un rien pompeux pour une réunion encore bien mondaine, qui attire seulement les initiés. Pour cette première édition, en 1891, le Racing Club de France prête ses installations de la Croix-Catelan à l'Union des Sociétés Françaises des Sports Athlétiques, qui régente alors le sport encore embryonnaire."

The text mentions a report by Richard Dougerthy in the Bulletin of l'USFSA (l'Union des Sociétés Française des Sports Athlétiques).

"La presse, il faut bien le dire, n'accorde aucune attention à l'événement. Seul, le Bulletin de l'USFSA en donne un compte rendu qui n'hésite à critiquer ni les organisateurs ni les acteurs : « C'est devant un public peu nombreux, mais choisi et fin connaisseur, que le Championnat individuel de tennis a eu lieu. Le Racing Club de France avait mis à la disposition de l'Union son terrain. Constatons que l'organisation de cette réunion était quelque peu défectueuse. Quoi qu'il en soit, nous avons assisté à des parties si remarquables que l'intérêt du sport a eu le pas sur tous les petits côtés défectueux de la réunion, organisation et mauvais temps. »"


What is basically being said here is that the Racing Club de France made available its facilities in the Croix Catelan to the "Union of French Societies of Athletic Sports" [USFSA] for the holding of the first French Championships in 1891.

The media did not pay any attention to the event. But in its bulletin the USFSA did not hesitate to criticise both the organisers and the participants. The tournament took place before a small number of select people who nevertheless knew something about the game. Ultimately, some of the matches were so good that their quality won the day over the poor organising and the bad weather.

This report contradicts Heiner Gillmeister, who in "Tennis - A Cultural History" states that the first French Championships were held at the Ile de Puteaux venue in 1891 and at the Racing Club de France one year later, then at each event alternately for a number of years.

But it is clear that, as the popularity of the sport grew, so did the number of clubs and tournaments.
 

newmark401

Professional
In "La paume et le lawn-tennis", E. de Nanteuil says that the "Inter-Club Championships" tournament was held alternately on the Ile de Puteaux and at the Racing Club de France. The first edition was won by H. Briggs over P. Baignières, the score being 6-3, 6-3. Unfortunately, he does not say where the first edition was held, but it was either on the Ile de Puteaux or at the Racing Club de France. Or was it?

Here are the men's singles results for the first few years (very few first names provided):

1892 Schopfer d. Fassitt 6-2, 1-6, 6-2
1893 L. Riboullet d. Schopfer 6-3, 6-3
1894 André Vacherot d. Brosselin 1-6, 6-3, 6-3
1895 André Vacherot d. L. Riboullet 9-7, 6-2
1896 André Vacherot d. Brosselin 6-1, 7-5
1897 Paul Aymé d. Warden 4-6, 6-4, 6-2
 

liesl

New User
Just a database search engine problem from that site, fixed now it seems.
Now I can find it.
Ok!
Due to copyright-protection the amount of tennis-titles available on the site is limited. I think I have nearly found all I could on it. In a couple of days I will add the rest of my findings to the list which I previously posted on Borgforever's Doherty thread.
 

liesl

New User
newmark401, thanks for translating. It is all a little confusing. One would have to find more primary sources to get a clear picture.

Great posts Liesl.
So you're stating evidence for the Racing Club as the first venue and when did Puteaux run the show?
Well haven't found any more info, yet . . .

As to your other question: apologies for not responding earlier. I will do in a sec.!
 

krosero

Legend
The old links at Bruno's website don't work anymore. The new link is: http://www.chansons-net.com/tennis/.

He also answered my question about Auteuil.

>>>>>Auteuil was a small village near Boulogne in the XIX century. Now inside Boulogne, but it still exist through the name "Porte d'Auteil" along the peripherical boulevard. Roland-Garros is located at "The porte d'Auteuil". The Racing Club is also very close to it. Tilden played in Paris in 1921? in St-Cloud, Stade Français, also called "La Faisanderie". It still exist today. Tilden played again in 1927 in the Racing Club (he lost against Lacoste). Then, again in 1929 and 1930 in Roland-Garros ("Auteuil")<<<<

This is exactly what I see on Google Earth when I put in the borders, but one thing I'm not clear about is this word "Auteuil". In the 1920s some New York Times articles report on Roland Garros matches from a place called "Auteuil". And some of them don't even specify Roland Garros, they just say the place is Auteuil. It leaves the impression that Auteuil is (or was) another commune, or suburb of Paris.

But today I don't see Auteuil anywhere on the maps of Paris. In fact, type in "Auteuil" in Google Earth and you get taken to a place many miles to the west of the city. Confusing.

Also thanks to Liesl for the new information.
 
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Borgforever

Hall of Fame
The old links at Bruno's website don't work anymore. The new link is: http://www.chansons-net.com/tennis/.

He also answered my question about Auteuil.

>>>>>Auteuil was a small village near Boulogne in the XIX century. Now inside Boulogne, but it still exist through the name "Porte d'Auteil" along the peripherical boulevard. Roland-Garros is located at "The porte d'Auteuil". The Racing Club is also very close to it. Tilden played in Paris in 1921? in St-Cloud, Stade Français, also called "La Faisanderie". It still exist today. Tilden played again in 1927 in the Racing Club (he lost against Lacoste). Then, again in 1929 and 1930 in Roland-Garros ("Auteuil")<<<<

This is getting more and more... Wasn't 1927 French Open at St. Clouds? It seems Racing Club was the venue. I don't dare quote any of this since new different info pops up every day.

Although I will say that this guy -- who you quote kros -- seems very credible but, who knows...

A lot of sources have now have different facts. Hard to find similar quotes...
 

krosero

Legend
This is getting more and more... Wasn't 1927 French Open at St. Clouds? It seems Racing Club was the venue. I don't dare quote any of this since new different info pops up every day.

That just looks like a slip on his part, because on his website the 1927 tournament was played at St. Cloud, not the Racing Club. In French: "L'épreuve se déroule au Stade Français, dans le magnifique parc de Saint-Cloud."

Sorry, I hadn't noticed the mistake. His response to me was focused on Auteuil, not on the other stuff. As far as I know there is no source stating that the 1927 tournament was someplace other than St. Cloud; it's always stated as being played there (for e.g., the New York Times).

It's an easy mistake because 1926 was indeed at the Racing Club.
 

newmark401

Professional
The following excerpt from Chapter 8 of "Lawn Tennis at Home and Abroad" (1903), entitled "Play in France and Switzerland", sheds some light on the situation in France circa 1903. Unfortunately, no venue is given for what the writer, R.B. Hough, calls "the single championship of France for French players" (no doubles yet, apparently).

However, it is clear that at that time several tournaments were already being held not just in Paris, but throughout France. It is also clear that most of them were open to foreign players. The main event in Paris appears to have been the "Open French Singles and Doubles", held at the Tennis Club de Paris at Easter.

The distinction made between tournaments open to foreign players and tournaments not open to foreign players, is important.
--------------

"In France the game has taken a great hold, and there are now Lawn Tennis Clubs in towns where, a very short time ago, the game was unknown. So much is this the case, that I was very much struck, on a recent trip through a large part of the French provinces, to see quite a number of people, in many different places, with lawn tennis rackets. Paris is, however, very far ahead of the provinces, and in Paris the tennis enthusiast can have all the play he wants, and exceedingly good play, too.

"The leading Clubs in Paris are the Tennis Club de Paris, at Auteuil; the Racing Club, in the Bois de Boulogne; and the Puteaux Club, the last named being a very fashionable resort. The first-named Club — the T.C.P. as it is usually called — is quite the most important, as, not only are there several good outdoor courts, but also two excellent covered courts. It is here that the Open French Singles and Doubles Championships are contested at Easter.

"It would be impossible to write of French tennis without mentioning the very prominent part Armand Masson has taken in developing the game. This gentleman is a French Canadian who has resided in Paris for many years, and has worked very hard to promote lawn tennis in his adopted city. Success has certainly rewarded his efforts. I recollect in 1895, during the Dinard Tournament, Masson telling me with delight that the Paris Tennis Club’s covered courts were an actuality, and that the Club had decided to institute a yearly competition for the Open Singles Championship of France. He there and then made me promise to come to the first open meeting, to be held in the November of that year. This meeting took place, and among the competitors were Count von Voss, André Vacherot, P. Aymé, Lebreton, and P. Lecaron. G. Hetley and myself were the only English players — it was a great disappointment to the club that the English entry was so small.

"However, Masson did not despair; he wanted his club to take the leading position, and he intended that it should do so. My opinion was asked, and I said that if the meeting were held at Easter, commencing on the Good Friday, I was sure several of our good players would be pleased to come. It was thereupon decided that the club’s meetings for the Open Championships of France, together with the usual handicap events, should take place every Easter. The floor of the courts was not quite satisfactory, and the Committee at once resolved to put down a new floor in oak; and this was done, although it was a very expensive matter for a new club. It was Masson who led the way in all this; he was backed, however, by an excellent Committee, of whom the leading members were Lecaron, Holland, and Hetley.

The Second Annual Meeting was held the following Easter (1896), and was a great success. Amongst the English competitors were M. F. Goodbody, G. M. Simond, J. M. Flavelle, F. Carter and myself. Since then the meeting has taken place regularly, and both the English and French entries have gone on increasing each year. This tournament is particularly French; the great majority of the competitors, and mostly all the spectators, are French, but at no meeting are English players more welcomed, or made to feel so thoroughly at home as at Auteuil, whilst the applause is absolutely impartial. The handicapping and management of the meeting have for the last few years been carried out by C. A. Voigt in a most satisfactory manner. One annual function at this meeting is the dinner given by P. Lecaron, formerly president and still one of the leading members of the club. A great feature of this festive gathering is the after-dinner speeches in French of the English players, and the speeches in English of the French players.

"At Puteaux there is an Annual Summer Meeting, at which the championships of Paris are played, and a very enjoyable tournament it is from a social point of view. The Comte de Janez is President of the club, and the meeting is under his management, consequently it is well looked after. R. F. Doherty carried all before him there in 1902.

"In the provinces, Dinard, Nice, and Cannes are the most important tournaments. Dinard is managed exceedingly well by Sir George Duntze, who has been Hon. Sec. to the Dinard Lawn Tennis Club for many years. H. A. B. Chapman and A. W. Gore learned a good deal of their tennis on these courts, whilst many of our leading players have played there at one time or another; amongst others, H. A. Nisbet, M. F. Goodbody, and W. V. Eaves have been frequent visitors. In 1896 Eaves won the cup outright after some very hard rights. R. V. Forbes, the present holder of the cup, is a player who competes very little in tournaments excepting at Dinard and at St. Servan (where he won the cup outright in 1902). He plays with a peculiar cut stroke, and when at his best is a difficult man to beat.

"The Nice Courts are managed by a good Committee, of which those well-known players, A. G. Morganstern and F. L. Fassitt, are leading members. Two or three tournaments are held there every season, at which some of the very best English and Continental players compete.

"Burke, the professional player, also has some courts at Nice, and anyone wishing for first-class practice and good instruction cannot do better than engage Burke to give lessons.

"At Cannes there are several courts, mostly belonging to different hotels. Here almost every one of our best players has played at some time or another. The Renshaws in their day, and the Dohertys now, have all played a great deal on the well-known Beau Site Courts; whilst G. W. Hillyard and Count von Voss are most regular visitors."
 

krosero

Legend
"At Puteaux there is an Annual Summer Meeting, at which the championships of Paris are played, and a very enjoyable tournament it is from a social point of view. The Comte de Janez is President of the club, and the meeting is under his management, consequently it is well looked after. R. F. Doherty carried all before him there in 1902.
So which championship is this that Doherty won?

It was not the closed FC, which was won by Michel Vacherot.

And the author says that the Open Singles Championships (open to international amateurs), were at the Tennis Club de Paris around Eastertime.
 

liesl

New User
The following excerpt from Chapter 8 of "Lawn Tennis at Home and Abroad" (1903), entitled "Play in France and Switzerland", sheds some light on the situation in France circa 1903. Unfortunately, no venue is given for what the writer, R.B. Hough, calls "the single championship of France for French players" (no doubles yet, apparently). ...
... However, it is clear that at that time several tournaments were already being held not just in Paris, but throughout France. It is also clear that most of them were open to foreign players. The main event in Paris appears to have been the "Open French Singles and Doubles", held at the Tennis Club de Paris at Easter.

The 'Open French Singles and Doubles Championships contested at Easter' here refered to are the French Covered Court Championships. Indeed as the text quoted by you says, they took place at the Tennis Club de Paris which opened with a tournament in Nov. 1895. And as you rightly say: not to be confused with the French National Championships - the actual precursor to the later open French Championships.

This is often talked of in English tennis writings: that following the Spring Riviera tournaments, and before returning to Britain (or reversed depending on the schedule), English players would stop at Paris for the 'French championships' [understandably they would refer to them as such because they were indeed one of a group of French championships, and added to that they open to foreigners]. Paret mentions them, as does Myers and in the Wilding biography it is said that in 1906 Wilding first plyed in the 'French championships' beating Ritchie 6-2 6-1 and 6-1, on just such a playing trip.

Here are the male singles 'Open' Covered Court Championships winners untill 1925 (from Ayres Almanack):
Men singles
1895 A. Vacherot
1896 M. F. Goodbody
1897 M. F. Goodbody
1898 G. M. Simond
1899 M. J. G. Ritchie
1900 G. A. Caridia
1901 G. M. Simond
1902 M. J. G. Ritchie
1903 M. Decugis
1904 M. Decugis
1905 M. J. G. Ritchie
1906 A. F. Wilding
1907 A. F. Wilding
1908 M. J. G. Ritchie
1909 M. Decugis
1910 M. Decugis
1911 W. H. Laurentz
1912 A. H. Gobert
1913 W. H. Laurentz
1914 F. G. Lowe
1915-18 No competition
1919 A. H. Gobert
1920 A. H. Gobert
1921 A. H. Gobert
1922 H. L. de Morpurgo
1923 J. Borotra
1924 A. J. Gerbault
1925 Restrepo.


"At Puteaux there is an Annual Summer Meeting, at which the championships of Paris are played, and a very enjoyable tournament it is from a social point of view. The Comte de Janez is President of the club, and the meeting is under his management, consequently it is well looked after. R. F. Doherty carried all before him there in 1902.

This is interesting and very typical, because even though one may come across the name of the I'lle de Puteaux club quite a lot in tennis literature, it is often kept very vague. And rarely it is said what sort of event actually took place and who took part.

Wallis Myers says in his writings that "there are 'open tournaments' held on the Auteuil Club and Ille de Puteaux."

Some tennis encyclopedias / reference books claim that the first championships were held at Ille de Puteaux [The Encyclopedia of Tennis, Max Robertson and Jack Kramer (eds.), New York: Viking Press, 1974], [The Consice Dictionary of Tennis, Martin Hedges (ed.), London: Bison Books, 1978], while elsewere you will read that the early French National Championships were staged alternately at the Racing Club at Croix-Catelan and the Stade Francais at the Faisanderie [The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Tennis, John Parsons, London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1998].

In Clerici' beautiful book (I have the translation in German) there is a chapter on French and German tennis in which he looks back on a conversation he had with Decugis and Gentien (this was late 1940s), in which both former players remenice on the first tournaments at Auteuil, Racing Club and the I'lle de Puteaux. But again: it's all rather inconclusive.

Heiner Gillmeister follows an early French publication [La Paume et le Lawn-Tennis, E. de Nanteuil, G. de Saint-Clair and Delahaye (eds.), Paris: Hachette, 1898] when he states that the first champioship was held on the courts of the I'lle de Puteaux and then by turns there and at the Racing Club. Both texts also make clear that in addition to a single event for men , the Union des Sociétés Française des Sports Athlétiques also organised other events: gentleman doubles (since 1891), intercollegiate singles (since 1893), and doubles (since 1891), and ladies' events (since 1896), but they seem to have taken place at various places and at various times. However La Paume et le Lawn-Tennis was published in 1898, so one needs to look elsewhere for information on the years 1898 &c.

As mentioned in a previous post two French sports almanacks [L'Almanach de sports] covering the 1898 and 1900 seasons contain results of various championships organised by the USFSA, but also of competitions organised by diverse clubs such as the Covered Court Championships at the Tennis Club de Paris. For example (at least if I see it right): according to the edition
covering 1900, the Championat interscolaire simple of that year took place on the courts of the I'lle de Puteaux club (commencing 20 may), the Championat double interclubs at the Racing club, etc. {As said earlier: my understanding of the French is not good to say the least so I'm not sure I read it correctly . . . See pages 257 &c.}
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k55485987.image.f257

But then we come to the interesting bit: when we can see mentioned a "Tournoi de l'Exposition", held at the S.S.I.P. (Societe de Sports de I'lle de Puteaux) in which the Doherty brothers and Harold Mahony apparently took part, with Laurie defeating Mahony in the singles final 6-4 6-2 6-3, the brothers winning the doubles against Max Decugis and Basil Spalding de Garmendia, and Reggie teaming up with Charlotte Cooper to win the mixed against Mahony and Helene Prevost 6-2 6-4.

So I'm looking at these scores and the date and then it starts to dawn: this was the tennis event of the 1900 olympics! [if I'm not mistaken, also spoken of by borgforever in the thread on Laurie Doherty). This last week I've been searching through my whole appartment for another book by Heiner Gillmeister which I had unfortunately displaced a while back: Die Geschichte der olympischen Tennisturniere (1896-1992), [Sankt Augustin: Academia Verlag, 1993], which covers al olymic tennis events untill 1992. And indeed: there is a wonderful 6 page piece recounting the proceedings leading up to and on the island.

One other place where I've found a mention of a tournament to be held at the I'lle de Puteaux club is in the Lawn Tennis Annual, compiled by H. R. McDonald (London: British Sports Publishing, 1907) containing tournament results of the 1906 season. There is listed a ('preliminary') Fixtures for 1907:
june 17- London chps at Queen's Club
june 23- I'lle de Puteaux Tournament at Paris.
june 24- Wimbledon


Right, haven't any time left for more, but will do so at a later time.
 

urban

Legend
I don't know, if someone has posted this here. In the book 'La fabuleuse histoire du tennis' by Christian Quidet, Paris, editions odil 1979, p. 43, is the draw of the first French Championships, played at Racing Club Paris (it seems on grass) in 1891.
First round:
M.P. de Candamo - M.P. Baignieres 5-6 (its called 1 rst partie), 6-2,1-6.
P. Briggs - M. Swann 6-5,4-6,6-3.
M. Heywood exempt on first round.

Second round:
Briggs-Heywood 6-4,6-3.
Baignieres exempt on 2nd round

Final:
Briggs- Baignieres 6-3,6-4.

I am looking for more results in this French book, if i find more, i will post them.
 

newmark401

Professional
Hi, Liesl,

Great post! Things are a bit clearer now, thanks to your information. I can see several main tournaments taking place at different venues in Paris during that era. Here they are in something approaching chronological order:

1a/ The Covered Court Championships, held at the Tennis Club de Paris at Easter, and open to French and foreign players alike. The almanac for 1900 talks of “Championnats internationaux” organised by the T.C.d.P. This event was won in 1900 by George Caridia of Wales, who beat Harold Mahony of Ireland in the final after Mahony retired due to exhaustion.

1b/ According to the almanac for the year 1900, a M. Gillou beat a M. Lebreton in the final of the “Championnat simple”, 6-0, 6-3, 7-5. This appears to have been a “closed” singles event, also held at the Tennis Club de Paris, and just before the “open” Covered Court Championships mentioned above.

I don’t know if there was an event for women at either time.

2/ The French Closed Championships, which began in 1891 and were open only to French nationals and players licensed with French clubs. The women’s singles started at this event in 1896. There is a list of the winners of the women’s singles event in this thread, with the venues and surfaces based on information contained in Heiner Gillmeister’s “Tennis – A Cultural History”. This event was usually held in mid-May (the dates for 1914 were 17-23 May; by that time it was definitely being held on clay at the Racing Club de France in Paris).

3/ An annual summer meeting held on the Ile de Puteaux, and called the “Championships of Paris”. Reggie Doherty won it in 1902, so it was obviously open to foreign players. I don’t know if there was a women’s event too. This event is not mentioned in the almanac for 1900. Maybe it took place after Wimbledon.

4/ An inter-schools singles and doubles championship, obviously open only to French players. Both events were held in mid-May.

5/ An inter-clubs doubles championship, held at the Racing Club de France. In 1900, this was won by Paul Aymé and the aforementioned Lebreton, both representing the Tennis Club de Paris. They beat Messrs Kippng and Warden from the Island Club. The latter two appear to have been British or Irish, but it’s clear that they were at least members of a French club. This event was held on 10 June in 1900.

6/ A mixed doubles championship, won in 1900 by M. and Mlle Prévost, who had a walkover in the final because no opponents turned up. It appears that they were the only entrants. No venue specified. This event was held in mid-June in 1900.

7/ Last, but not least, another singles championship held at the Tennis Club de Paris in mid-June. Paul Aymé beat M. Prévost 6-3, 6-0 in the final. Could it have been the French Closed Championships? There is no mention of a women’s event, and one had started four years earlier. However, this event was held in mid- to late June and coincided with the main grass court events in Ireland and England, in the run-up to Wimbledon, so there wouldn’t have been a big foreign entry even if it had been open.
----------

The “Tournoi de l’Exposition” was, indeed, the Olympic event, held in Paris in 1900. It coincided with an “Exposition Universelle”, or “World’s Fair” being held in Paris that year to celebrate 100 years of achievements in science, technology, etc.
------------
 

krosero

Legend
I don't know, if someone has posted this here. In the book 'La fabuleuse histoire du tennis' by Christian Quidet, Paris, editions odil 1979, p. 43, is the draw of the first French Championships, played at Racing Club Paris (it seems on grass) in 1891.
First round:
M.P. de Candamo - M.P. Baignieres 5-6 (its called 1 rst partie), 6-2,1-6.
P. Briggs - M. Swann 6-5,4-6,6-3.
M. Heywood exempt on first round.

Second round:
Briggs-Heywood 6-4,6-3.
Baignieres exempt on 2nd round

Final:
Briggs- Baignieres 6-3,6-4.

I am looking for more results in this French book, if i find more, i will post them.
So then this looks like the answer to the OP's question. The first championships was on grass, at the Racing Club.

Urban, what does it say specifically about the surface?
 

urban

Legend
Quidet is citing a contemporary report of the year 1891 in the magazin: "Les sports athletics" by a certain M. Richard Dougherthy. In the cited article there are two indications for grass as surface:
1. It begins with a reference to "le championnat individuel de Lawn tennis". On clay it would be no lawn tennis. Earlier in Quidets book it is stated, that the Racing Club had two grass (herbe) courts.
2. At the end the article refers to the conditions of the court, which became at the end very slippery, and very diffcult for the players due to rain. There is a strong possibilty, that it was grass, because on clay rain doesn't make the court too difficult.
Some more notes: There are extensive descriptions of the matches and styles of the players. The organisation of the Racing Club was quite bad. The winner, the Brit Briggs had practiced tennis for two months, he unnnerved the more stylish Swann by playing a hazardous game. Nevertheless the event was a success and the club had 50 more entries that day.
Quidet also mentions, that the Racing Club had staged an international tournament in 1889, won by M. Hetley, which wasn't an official championships.
 

liesl

New User
I can see several main tournaments taking place at different venues in Paris during that era.
Hi Newmark, I think that one might have to expand on that, and differentiate between tournaments organised by the USFSA (making use of the facilities of various clubs) and tournaments organized by various clubs. Here for every year your findings are highly likely to vary. Nanteuil and his co editors also have winners and scores of those other events organized by the USFSA, but trying to decipher it will probably give me a headache.
But as you say: as of 1914 the location of the main National championship events (Racing Club de France in Paris) and dates are easily found. (I don't have the Ayres almanack prior to 1914, so can't help further with those earlier dates).

I still have doubt about the so-called 'tournaments' at Ile de Puteaux, Maybe this was merely a fancy name for an otherwise not very relevant event. Yet Doherty took part and won it at one time.

I had a closer look at Gillmeister's book on the olympics (where he cites among others the Field magazine and sportsmagazine La Vie au Grand Air): The organization of the olympic exibition event was very troublesome and chaotic and it very nearly not took place, which was reflected in the small number of players that took part, on the otherhand the quality of those that did however was very good. After more than a year of squabling, the I'lle de Puteaux club was finally asked to organize the tennis events. The club had 10 tennis courts, a croquet lawn and a nine-hole golf course. Five courts were reserved for the olympic event which was spread over 3 days. The crowd of course consisted of the crème de la crème of Parisian society (with Sarah Bernard making a daily appearance). The gold and silver medalists had to wait 2 years before they were given their medals. Astonishingly too, the prizes which were in addition awarded to the winners did not come in the shape or form of trophies but rather in cash!

I also remembered that I have an article by Anne Waser on the early beginnings of tennis in France, which appeared in a journal on sports history. I would have to see if I can locate it.
 

liesl

New User
Quidet is citing a contemporary report of the year 1891 in the magazin: "Les sports athletics" by a certain M. Richard Dougherthy. In the cited article there are two indications for grass as surface:
1. It begins with a reference to "le championnat individuel de Lawn tennis". On clay it would be no lawn tennis. Earlier in Quidets book it is stated, that the Racing Club had two grass (herbe) courts.
2. At the end the article refers to the conditions of the court, which became at the end very slippery, and very diffcult for the players due to rain. There is a strong possibilty, that it was grass, because on clay rain doesn't make the court too difficult.
Some more notes: There are extensive descriptions of the matches and styles of the players. The organisation of the Racing Club was quite bad. The winner, the Brit Briggs had practiced tennis for two months, he unnnerved the more stylish Swann by playing a hazardous game. Nevertheless the event was a success and the club had 50 more entries that day.
Quidet also mentions, that the Racing Club had staged an international tournament in 1889, won by M. Hetley, which wasn't an official championships.
The centenary by Gilles Delamarre Roland Garros. Le Livre du Tournoi du Centenaire, (Paris: du May/FFdT, 1991 ) more or less seems to confirm this. It also quotes the report by Richard Dougerthy (but from the Bulletin of l'USFSA (l'Union des Sociétés Française des Sports Athlétiques). However I don't think there is mentioned what type of courts were in use at the time, though your reasoning about the slipperyness of the court due to rain makes sense.

The courts could very well still have been grass in 1891. For in this respect Gillmeister suggests a lot, but says little, at least not as presicely as you might expect from a linguist. Quidet ad Delamarre on the other hand have written and published extensively on tennis and would have had access to archives containing relevant information.
 

urban

Legend
Heiner Gillmeister, i think, was/is a specialist for English language. He lectured/ teaches at the university of Bonn. I think, Quidet's book was the forerunner of the Roland Garros book. I saw the RG book in a library Paris, but didn't buy it, because many pictures and texts were already in the Quidet book. Delamarre was/is the famous French photographer, who took long picture series of players, which appeared i.a. in the book of Gianni Clerici.
 

timnz

Legend
What was the name of the 1891 to 1924 tournament in French?

Wikipedia site on the French Open has so much incorrect information its not funny.

For instance Wikipedia says the name of the tournament was 'Championat de France International de Tennis'. But that can't be true because we all know that it wasn't an international tournament at all, but a domestic affair. Do we know the French name for the 1891 to 1924 tournament? I'll correct Wikipedia when I get it from you.

The other thing is that the Wikipedia site mentions the World Hard Court Championships (but only because i put the info. in there)... but what is unclear is the following:

Is the French Championships from 1925 onwards a continuation of

1/ The 1891 to 1924 French Club members only tournament

OR

2/ The 1912 to 1923 World Hard Court Championship?

There is a lot wrong on the Wikipedia entry - I have only elaborated on the fact that the 1891-1924 tournament was French Only + added info. about the World Hard Court Championship. There is heaps to change. For instance note (7) on the notes section quotes a web page that says that the World Hard Court championship was a French only affair - this is the official French Open Website!!
 

newmark401

Professional
I wouldn't look to wikipedia for any sort of accurate, reliable information at all. I don't know the original name for the tournament in question. I would call it the French Closed Championship, although foreign players licensed with French clubs could participate in it. Almost none did. As we now know, foreign players had a number of other options with regard to playing in tournaments in Paris and the rest of France.

Originally, I believed that the French Closed Championship was the precursor to the modern French Open tournament, but that belief seems ridiculous to me now.

You could say that the French Championships from 1925 onwards is a continuation of the World Hard Court Championships, held from 1912 to 1914 and again from 1920 to 1923. At least foreign players could play in the World Hard Court Championships, and did. Hence its special status.
 

krosero

Legend
My motivation: I'd like to see players who won the WHCC like Tilden get a tick in the box for winning the French Open (or at least the equivalent). From my way of thinking, it was not of lesser status. In fact it was regarded as the world championship on that surface.
Well check this out, timnz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfTbnIaxL3I

So we know in 1984 Bud Collins regarded Tilden as winning the French. Even if it was just a slip of the tongue, it shows that Tilden's victory at the WHCC has left an impression many years later as if it had been a win at the French Championships.

I'll check Bud's record book later. Maybe it will list the closed French championship as the technical predecessor to the international event begun in 1925.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Well check this out, timnz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfTbnIaxL3I

So we know in 1984 Bud Collins regarded Tilden as winning the French. Even if it was just a slip of the tongue, it shows that Tilden's victory at the WHCC has left an impression many years later as if it had been a win at the French Championships.

I'll check Bud's record book later. Maybe it will list the closed French championship as the technical predecessor to the international event begun in 1925.
I just glanced at Bud's record book and it states on page 377 on the second paragraph "Although dating back to 1891 (men) and 1897 (women), the French Championships welcomed only citizens and permanent residents. Not until 1925 was that restriction lifted, the rest of the world invited in, and the French would become the fourth of the major international championships, making a Grand Slam possible."

Since the World Hardcourt started in 1912, the Collins book doesn't seem to consider it as the technical predecessor to the French. I also checked the yearly summaries and it only lists three majors up to 1924.
 

krosero

Legend
I just glanced at Bud's record book and it states on page 377 on the second paragraph "Although dating back to 1891 (men) and 1897 (women), the French Championships welcomed only citizens and permanent residents. Not until 1925 was that restriction lifted, the rest of the world invited in, and the French would become the fourth of the major international championships, making a Grand Slam possible."

Since the World Hardcourt started in 1912, the Collins book doesn't seem to consider it as the technical predecessor to the French. I also checked the yearly summaries and it only lists three majors up to 1924.
Yes, and though his list of French champions begins only in 1925, it's clear he regards the closed FC as the technical predecessor, because for the "French-only days" he mentions Masson with 6 titles and Decugis with eight. And he refers to the WHCC as if it were another tournament.
 

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Yes, and though his list of French champions begins only in 1925, it's clear he regards the closed FC as the technical predecessor, because for the "French-only days" he mentions Masson with 6 titles and Decugis with eight. And he refers to the WHCC as if it were another tournament.

I guess you're right. I did just a quick glance.
 
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3954123515_9fe34a6c75_o.jpg


With a little help from the author of the French tennis website, and using Gillmeister's book, I put together this image of all the tennis courts and stadiums we've been talking about.

I was particularly interested because I spent a week in Paris twelve years ago and I have very fond memories of the city. Now that I look at the map, I realize that I even walked one day down the full length of the avenue that crosses the Bois de Boulogne, passing all these places without knowing it (I wasn't thinking much about tennis then). Île-de-Puteaux was close on my left, the Racing Club courts on my right, and Roland Garros also on the edge of the park.

On Google Earth, in the spot I marked, there are tennis courts called the Tennis Club de Paris (and they're just inside the western boundary of Paris). Now whether those are the exact courts that were used a century ago for the FC, well I can't say 100% (there are other courts nearby, belonging today to another club, per Google Earth anyway).

With the other sites it was easier: for example, there are courts today in the "Faisanderie" in St. Cloud park, and Gillmeister says that the original stadium is still there.

Great map Krosero,

La Faisanderie is in the commune of Saint-Cloud and not Paris itself

Have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_gates_of_Paris to see all "Les Portes de Paris" which surround the commune of Paris.
Their name indicates more or less a direction. For instance "Porte d'Orléans" is directed towards Orléans, about 100 km to the south of Paris (which gave the name "New Orleans" when the French conquered the Louisiana).

Porte d'Auteuil is one of them and Roland Garros is near Porte d'Auteuil.

So all the stadiums or locations shown in your beautiful photo are inside Paris itself except "Le Parc de Saint-Cloud" (on the photo it is translated in English "St Cloud Park"), and Ïle-de-Puteaux.

"Le Parc de Saint-Cloud" is in the south of the commune called "Saint-Cloud".

L'Ïle-de-Puteaux, http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Île_de_Puteaux, is an island mostly located in the commune called (5/6 of the island area) and the 1/6 left are in the commune "Neuilly" (in the past the mayor was a certain Nicolas Sarkozy)

"Le Bois de Boulogne" (as "Le Bois de Vincennes") is inside Paris itself and not inside the commune of "Boulogne-Billancourt" though it is outside the peripherical boulevard.
So the commune of Paris is roughly what is inside the peripherical boulevard plus "Le Bois de Boulogne" plus "Le Bois de Vincennes" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Par_Arr.jpg or http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Paris_arr_jms.gif (here both “Bois” are truncated).

Communes of the department of “Les Hauts-de-Seine” : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communes_des_Hauts-de-Seine
In particular Puteaux, Saint-Cloud and Boulogne-Billancourt

Some commune maps (the red part) :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Boulogne-Billancourt_map.svg for Boulogne-Billancourt
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Puteaux_map.svg for Puteaux
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Saint-Cloud_map.svg for Saint-Cloud
 

newmark401

Professional
As more and more results and other data become available online, the picture we have of tennis in France in the middle of the 1890s and on up to the First World War expands and becomes clearer and clearer.

It is obvious, now, that many tournaments were being held in France by 1900, and not just on clay. Of course, these tournaments included the Closed French Championships, considered by some people as the precursor to today's French Open, held at Roland Garros. However, knowing that several tournaments were open to overseas players as early as 1895, this special claim for the Closed French Championships seems ridiculous.

The South of France Championships tournament, held in Nice, was inaugurated in 1894 and would become one of the most prestigious of the Riviera tournaments. It was usually held around the beginning of March, as part of the clay court season in the south of France (there were also tournaments in Monte Carlo and in places like San Remo and Bordighera in Italy). If any tournament was a precursor to Roland Garros, it was one like the South of France Championships because it attracted not just the top French men and women, but also the top overseas players. It was also held on clay, like today's French Open.

The French Covered Court Championships tournament, held on the wooden courts of the Tennis Club de Paris, appears to have started in 1895, when André Vacherot won it. Manliffe Goodbody of Ireland won it the following two years, so it was certainly open to overseas players. By 1907 an indoor tournament was also being held in Lyons, around the beginning of April. Like the French Covered Court Championships tournament, the event in Lyons was open to both men and women, and attracted overseas players.

Despite their popularity, the clay court tournaments in the South of France (and elsewhere in that country) lacked the prestige of the Wimbledon tournament in Britain. This was one of the main reasons for the creation of the World Hard Court Championships, first held in 1912, at the Stade Français in Saint Cloud, close to Paris. From the very start, and during its brief life, this tournament attracted the top French and overseas players.

By 1914, just before the First World War, many other tournaments were also being held in France, in places like Bordeaux, Deauville, Lille, Compiègne and Amiens. Needless to say, the main surface for the outdoor tournaments was clay, or an approximation of clay, while wood was the surface of predilection indoors.

Hopefully, all of the results from these tournaments, from their beginning up to their demise (most of them are no longer held), will be available online one day so that anyone who wants to access them can do so with a few clicks of their mouse.
 

Idzznew

Rookie
from www.cannes.com

Some info on tenniscourts in Cannes:

Le tennis
• 1879 : Only one tennis court existed in France, built in Cannes by Sir Thomas Robinson Woolfield, the enormously wealthy property developer who built the finest homes in Cannes. This adaptation of the venerable French game Jeu de Paume, invented six years earlier in Great Britain by Major Wingfield, owes its name to the French word ‘Tenez’ spoken by the server just before serving the ball. Spelled ‘Tenetz’, it changed phonetically into ‘Tennis’.

• After 1881, certainly under Sir Thomas’ influence, several courts were installed by the Renshaw brothers on the property of the future Hôtel Beau Site in Cannes: they are considered to be the first on French soil. The fashion was launched. Soon, all the hotels in Cannes demanded their own courts.
• In 1889 the Prince of Wales opened the eight courts at Hôtel Métropole, a luxury establishment situated between Cannes and Golfe Juan.

• In 1907 Captain Charles Letts, an officer in the Army of India, had 17 courts installed on a vast plot between what is now Avenue du Maréchal Juin, Rue Lecour and Rue Velasquez.
• From 1909 onwards, this site, the Cannes tennis club, became the venue for the first women’s tennis tournament in Cannes. In the 1920s the great names of world tennis displayed their skills on the courts of Rue Lacour: William “Big Bill” Tilden, the famous Musketeers (Borotra, Lacoste, Cochet and Brugnon) and, of course, Cosette Saint Omer-Roy, one of the great ambassadors for women’s tennis in Cannes. In 1932, she took charge of the club, the future Cannes tennis Martinez, to which she welcomed many celebrities such as George V of Sweden, the actress Viviane Romance, or Prince Ali Kahn and his wife Rita Hayworth.
• 1910. Henri Ruhl decided to build the Carlton and added six courts along Rue du Canada, which were opened in 1912.
• February 1926. On the court of honour of the Carlton lawn tennis club presided by Thomas Arthur Burke the great French champion Suzanne Lenglen, a frequent visitor to Cannes, beat the American Helen Wills-Moody in a historic match. From Michèle Morgan to Errol Flynn, from Kirk Douglas to Anthony Quinn, the greatest stars of the screen met regularly in Rue du Canada, on these courts, which disappeared in the 1970s.

• 1922. Hôtel Gallia opened five courts in an exceptional natural setting.

• In 1956 it was in the Gallia tennis club, the first club in the world with clay courts, that great American and Australian players such as Pancho Gonzales, Ken Rosewall, Lewis Hoad, Rod Laver or Pancho Segura came to play in Europe for the first time. The crowds also applauded France’s first two professionals, Robert Haillet and Pierre Barthes and of course, a few years later, Monique Salfati, the great player who was the daughter of Henri Salfati, President of the club from 1963 onwards. In 1993 the Gallia tennis club was refurbished and became the Lucien Barrière tennis club.

• Lucien Barrière’s father-in-law, François André, leading casino owner in Cannes after the war, laid out the “François André” park in the gardens of Hôtel Montfleury, with tennis courts and other sports facilities inaugurated in 1962.


www.cannes.com
 

newmark401

Professional
"From 1909 onwards, this site, the Cannes tennis club, became the venue for the first women’s tennis tournament in Cannes."

This is wrong because a tournament featuring a women's singles event was being held in Cannes as early as 1905, and more than likely earlier. I'm not sure of the venue, but it was probably the Métropole Hotel courts or the Beau Site Hotel courts.

The Monte Carlo tournament (one of them - eventually there was more than one) had a women's singles event as early as 1901, and it's unlikely that it was the first or the only tournament on the Riviera to feature such an event.

As I mentioned before, the South of France Championships tournament in Nice was inaugurated in 1894, and is likely to have featured a women's singles event then or soon after.

In other words, by the end of the nineteenth century, as the popularity of tennis in France was increasing, so was the number of tournaments being played in which both men and women were competing. This pattern had first been created in Great Britain and Ireland in the late 1870s/early 1880s and would be repeated in many other countries later on.

Mark
 

Q&M son

Professional
"From 1909 onwards, this site, the Cannes tennis club, became the venue for the first women’s tennis tournament in Cannes."

This is wrong because a tournament featuring a women's singles event was being held in Cannes as early as 1905, and more than likely earlier. I'm not sure of the venue, but it was probably the Métropole Hotel courts or the Beau Site Hotel courts.

The Monte Carlo tournament (one of them - eventually there was more than one) had a women's singles event as early as 1901, and it's unlikely that it was the first or the only tournament on the Riviera to feature such an event.

As I mentioned before, the South of France Championships tournament in Nice was inaugurated in 1894, and is likely to have featured a women's singles event then or soon after.

In other words, by the end of the nineteenth century, as the popularity of tennis in France was increasing, so was the number of tournaments being played in which both men and women were competing. This pattern had first been created in Great Britain and Ireland in the late 1870s/early 1880s and would be repeated in many other countries later on.

Mark

Thanks for this one Mark
 

timnz

Legend
Racing Club de France in 1926

Let's not get carried away here. The World Hard Court Championships (in French, Les championnats du monde sur terre battue, which is really the World Clay Court Championships, but I know what they mean) were held seven times - from 1912 to 1914 and, after the war, again from 1920-23. The venue each year was the clay courts of the Stade Francais in Saint Cloud, with one exception, namely 1922, when they were held at the Royal Leopold Club in Brussels, Belgium.

The WHCC was not played in 1924, when Paris hosted the Olympic Games, with the tennis event being held in the Colombes district on the outskirts of the city. The event was held outdoors and on red clay. "On the outskirts of Paris, Colombes was a dusty manufacturing district dotted with dirty cafes and grimy buildings. What greeted the team when they first arrived and viewed the court site was a Fellini-like surrealism. In the background, where the roaring crescendos of approval would soon erupt, was a large stadium in a barren field overgrown with dry woods and stickers. Close to it, anxious for a moment in the spotlight, brawny wrestlers practiced on a platform, and
on a frame of rods and bars, chiseled gymnasts polished their daring feats of precision. In the foreground was the shocking sight of pyramid piles of red clay and sand – the tennis courts." (Helen Wills, winner of the singles - and ladies' doubles with Hazel Wightman - wrote that in her autobiograpy "Fifteen-Thirty".)

In 1925, the French Championships, which had hitherto been open only to French nationals and other players licensed with French tennis clubs, became open to all amateurs. The FC were held at the Stade Francais in 1925, the Racing Club de France in 1926 and then again at the Stade Francais in 1927 (always on red clay). In 1928, the Roland Garros stadium was opened and the event has been held there ever since. It's the one Federer and Kuznetsova won earlier this year.

This French Championships - open only to French nationals and other players licensed with French tennis clubs - appears to have began in 1891 at the Racing Club de France in Paris (sufrace unknown). An Englishman H. Briggs won it (there were five participants and it was all held on one day).

In 1897, a women's singles event was held for the first time. It was won by Adine Masson. The venue may still probably have been the Racing Club de France in Paris. The surface is still uncertain (clay or grass).

By 1914 this French Championships was (still) being held at the Racing Club de France in Paris. The reason we know this is that Suzanne Lenglen, aged 14, lost the final that year to Marguerite Broquedis. By this time the surface was definitely clay.

After the war this same French Championships was held at the same venue (Racing Club de France in Paris) and on the same surface (clay) from 1920-24. We know what happened in 1925. It became open to all amateur players from all countries and was held at the Stade Francais in Saint Cloud twice (1925 and 1927) and at the Racing Club de France once (1926). Then came the definitive move to Roland Garros.

The period 1891 to 1913 is very vague. Certainly there were a number of grass courts at the Racing Club de France when it was founded in the early 1880s, but the change to clay was obviously made at some point. When, is the question. Hopefully it will be possible to clarify this question in the near future.

What was the surface at the Racing Club de France in 1926 ?
 

newmark401

Professional
What was the surface at the Racing Club de France in 1926 ?

It was definitely clay or a slow, clay-type surface like sand. They might have had hard (asphalt) and indoor (wood) courts there, too, but I would rule out grass.
 
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krosero

Legend
All the newspaper reports I've seen for 1926 refer to the French hardcourt championship, or as the NY Times put it, the "international" hardcourt championship. That certainly means clay or sand of some kind; what's interesting is that the tournament is being referred to almost as if it's still the World hardcourt championship (WHCC). In 1922 when Lenglen won the WHCC, the Times had called it the "international" hard court championship.
 

timnz

Legend
Hardcourt Championship

All the newspaper reports I've seen for 1926 refer to the French hardcourt championship, or as the NY Times put it, the "international" hardcourt championship. That certainly means clay or sand of some kind; what's interesting is that the tournament is being referred to almost as if it's still the World hardcourt championship (WHCC). In 1922 when Lenglen won the WHCC, the Times had called it the "international" hard court championship.

Just more evidence that the World Hardcourt Championship was the French Open's predecessor. Well, actually the French Open seems to be a kind of merger between the WHCC and the French Club Members only Championships. (The former tournaments finishing in 1923 and 1924 respectively).

Thanks for the confirmation as to the surface.
 

krosero

Legend
"French open"

Well on the one hand the open French championship, which started in 1925, was spoken about as if it were the continuation of the WHCC. To give another example, in May 1927 (just before the French championship at St. Cloud), the NY Times referred to Jean Washer as "twice finalist at St. Cloud." That's in reference to 1921 and 1923, when he lost the WHCC to Tilden and Johnston, respectively.

On the other hand, there was an awareness that there was something new about the French championship starting in 1925. Some papers refer to the "French open" championships; and one headline in 1925 read, "LENGLEN WINNER OF FRENCH OPEN TOURNEY".

In February '26 there was this AP report:

MLLE. LENGLEN OUT OF RIVIERA SINGLES

Will Not Meet Miss Wills Again Until St. Cloud or Wimbledon Tourneys.

.... the French champion said: "I consider the French open championships and Wimbledon more important than Riviera tennis."

Interesting the the French tourney was expected to be at St. Cloud again in '26, but ended up being at the Racing Club.
 

newmark401

Professional
Well on the one hand the open French championship, which started in 1925, was spoken about as if it were the continuation of the WHCC. To give another example, in May 1927 (just before the French championship at St. Cloud), the NY Times referred to Jean Washer as "twice finalist at St. Cloud." That's in reference to 1921 and 1923, when he lost the WHCC to Tilden and Johnston, respectively.

On the other hand, there was an awareness that there was something new about the French championship starting in 1925. Some papers refer to the "French open" championships; and one headline in 1925 read, "LENGLEN WINNER OF FRENCH OPEN TOURNEY".

In February '26 there was this AP report:



Interesting the the French tourney was expected to be at St. Cloud again in '26, but ended up being at the Racing Club.

It sounds as if they wanted to be fair to the main French tennis clubs and move the biggest tournament around until the Stade Roland Garros was ready. That said, there were only three years between the first big open French Championships tournament at Saint Cloud in 1925 and the first Roland Garros tournament in 1928. And, of course, the main tennis clubs outside of Paris, e.g. in Nice, Cannes and Menton, not to mention Dinard, Boulogne-sur-Mer and Le Touquet, had been running tournaments for decades by 1925.

But it appears that what would become the biggest French tournament had to take place in the capital. This was not the case in Germany, for example, where the German Championships took place in Hamburg from 1896 onwards (1897 for the men), excluding the sojourn in Bad Homburg from 1898 to 1901. Nor has it ever been the case in the United States.
 

newmark401

Professional
Two interesting reports on lawn tennis tournaments held in Cannes were included in “The Field Lawn Tennis Calendar” for 1888 (relating to the previous year, 1887). These two reports are reproduced below:

“From a correspondent at Cannes we hear that the lawn tennis courts at the Hotel Beau Site are in continual use, in spite of the recent earthquake shocks, which has [have] driven so many frequenters away from these parts. Many well-known English players are already there, while others are expected; America has also contributed two of her best players in Mr [James] Dwight and Mr A. Beeckman. Mr [Ernest] Renshaw has played several exhibition matches with Mr Beeckman, conceding him half 15, and has won the majority. The following handicap commenced on February 21:

Hotel Beau Site, Cannes, France

[Matches were best of five sets of 9 games each]

Semi-finals
A. Beeckman (USA) d. Arthur J. Stanley (GBR), three sets to two
Ernest Renshaw (GBR) d. James Dwight (USA), three sets to love

Final
Ernest Renshaw (GBR), owing half 15 and one bisque, d. A. Beeckman (USA) 3-5, 6-3, 2-5, 5-3, 5-3”
-----

“Lawn tennis is in full force on the gravel courts of the Beau-Site Hotel at Cannes, as will be seen by the following return. Mr [Ernest] Renshaw presented the prize for the winning lady, and Mr B. Winthrop gave a prize for the lady in the runner-up [position].

[10-14 March] Scratch double handicap

Semi-finals
Ernest Renshaw (GBR)/Miss Bryan (GBR) d. C.B. Penlington (GBR)/Maud Watson (GBR) 4-6, 6-4, 7-5
Harry Grove (GBR)/Edith Gurney (GBR) d. James Dwight (USA)/H. Asser 3-6, 6-4, 11-9

Final
Ernest Renshaw (GBR)/Miss Bryan (GBR) d. Harry Grove (GBR)/Edith Gurney (GBR), owe 15, 6-4, 13-11”
-----

The two reports reproduced above indicate that exhibition matches and handicap events (it seems wrong to call them tournaments) were being held quite often on the Riviera in the early months of the year, at least in 1887, and probably in other years too. It is worth noting that, with the exception of one or two American players, the participants were all British.

The appearance of Maud Watson in the second of the events reported on above is noteworthy because 1887 was one of the last years in which she played competitive tennis. Towards the end of her career she was handicapped by an injured wrist.

The “A. Beeckman” referred to might have been R. Livingston Beeckman, one of the better early American lawn tennis players.
-----
 
... Unfortunately my French is really very poor! So I need help in translating accurately: ...

Sorry but my English is likely not much richier than your French.

Here is my rough translation :

Des courts qui se multiplient, des clubs qui grandissent conduisent naturellement au lancement d'un Championnat de France. C'est, sans doute, un titre un rien pompeux pour une réunion encore bien mondaine, qui attire seulement les initiés. Pour cette première édition, en 1891, le Racing Club de France prête ses installations de la Croix-Catelan à l'Union des Sociétés Françaises des Sports Athlétiques, qui régente alors le sport encore embryonnaire.

Courts that proliferated, clubs that grow, naturally lead to the launch of a Championship in France. It's probably a tiny bit pompous title for a meeting still very mundane, that attracts only the initiated. For this first edition in 1891, the Racing Club de France lends its facilities of the Croix-Catelan to the Union des Sociétés Françaises des Sports Athlétiques, which regulates the sport still at the embryonic stage.

La presse, il faut bien le dire, n'accorde aucune attention à l'événement. Seul, le Bulletin de l'USFSA en donne un compte rendu qui n'hésite à critiquer ni les organisateurs ni les acteurs : « C'est devant un public peu nombreux, mais choisi et fin connaisseur, que le Championnat individuel de tennis a eu lieu. Le Racing Club de France avait mis à la disposition de l'Union son terrain. Constatons que l'organisation de cette réunion était quelque peu défectueuse. Quoi qu'il en soit, nous avons assisté à des parties si remarquables que l'intérêt du sport a eu le pas sur tous les petits côtés défectueux de la réunion, organisation et mauvais temps"

The press, it must be said, pays no attention to the event. Only the Bulletin of the USFSA gives an account that doesn’t hesitate to criticize both the organizers and the actors: "It's in front of a small audience, but chosen and connoisseur, that the individual tennis championship took place. Le Racing Club de France had placed his ground at the Union's disposal. Let’s observe that the organization of this meeting was somewhat defective. Anyway, we've seen games so remarkable that the interests of the sport took precedence over every little bad sides of the meeting, organization, and bad weather"

Plus libres de leurs mouvements, les joueurs commencent à faire parler d'eux. Mais, à l'aube du XXe siècle, les Championnats de France, qui ne sont toujours pas ouverts aux étrangers, demeurent une fête de famille réunissant les joueurs de première série. Ils ne sont, le plus souvent, pas plus de huit, presque toujours parisiens. Ainsi, en 1902, un deuil familial empêche MM. Lawton et de Luze, les Bordelais de la Société Athlétique de la Villa Primrose, d'affirmer la présence de la province, et Marcel Vacherot, sortant vainqueur d'un tournoi joué sur deux dimanches — les 15 et 22 juin —, succède à son frère André. Le finaliste est un grand jeune homme de vingt ans, armé d'un service et d'un smash qui étonnent pour l'époque, Max Decugis."
"Il prend le pouvoir, sans coup férir, dès l'année suivante, après avoir, comme les autres, acquitté son engagement de 5 francs pour prendre part aux Championnats, disputés sur les courts du Tennis Club de Paris dans la seule journée du 14 juin 1903."
"Max Decugis, qui emmène pour la première fois une équipe française en Coupe Davis, en 1904, est l'artisan de la prise de conscience. Cheveux gominés, les yeux presque noirs, il a une prestance et un engagement qui dissuadent de parler plus longtemps de simple passe-temps à propos de son sport. Même lorsqu'il n'est pas vainqueur, c'est lui qui attire l'attention et le public. C'est le cas aux Championnats de France 1906, toujours disputés sur les courts du Tennis Club de Paris, où il s'incline face à Maurice Germot, né, comme lui, en 1882."
"En 1908, les Championnats de France prennent enfin le visage d'une grande semaine de tennis. Toutes les épreuves se disputent en même temps sur les courts du Racing Club de France, les simples et doubles des joueurs et joueuses de première série, mais aussi de deuxième série et, en plus, les handicaps, encore de règle. Le nombre des engagements fait un bond en avant jusqu'à deux cents et, dès le lundi 8 juin, plus de cent parties se disputent.


More free in their movements, players begin to get themselves talked about. But at the dawn of the twentieth century, the Championships of France, who are still not open to foreigners, remain a family event bringing together players of the first series. They are most often not more than eight, almost always Parisian. Thus, in 1902, a family bereavement prevented MM. Lawton and Luze, the Bordelais of the Société Athlétique de la Villa Primrose, to affirm the presence of the province, and Marcel Vacherot, emerging victorious from a tournament played over two Sundays - the 15 and 22 June - succeeded his Brother André. The runner-up is a great young man of twenty, armed with a service and an overhead smash that surprise at the time, Max Decugis."
"He took power without any difficulty, from the next year, after having, like others, paid his commitment of 5 francs to take part in the Championships, played at the Tennis Club of Paris in the single day of 14 June 1903. "
"Max Decugis, who leads for the first time a French team in Davis Cup in 1904, is the architect of awareness. Slicked hair, eyes almost black, he has a presence and a commitment that discourage to talk any more about his sport as a hobby. Even when not winning, he attracts attention and the public. This is the case in the Championships of France in 1906, still played on the courts of the Tennis Club de Paris, where he goes down to Maurice Germot, born, like him, in 1882. "
"In 1908, the championships of France are finally becoming a great week of tennis. All events are held at the same time on the courts of the Racing Club de France, the singles and doubles of men and women of the first series, but also of the second series and, moreover, the handicap events still played. The number of entrants made a leap ahead to two cents, and from Monday, June 8, over a hundred parties are played.

Note about the post #36 : I made a slight edit and in particular I rewrote the exact location of L'Île-de-Puteaux as follows :
L'Île-de-Puteaux ... is shared between the municipalities of Puteaux (5/6e of the area, south-west) and Neuilly (1:6 north-east)
 
The old links at Bruno's website don't work anymore. The new link is: http://www.chansons-net.com/tennis/.
He also answered my question about Auteuil.
>>>>>Auteuil was a small village near Boulogne in the XIX century. Now inside Boulogne, but it still exist through the name "Porte d'Auteil" along the peripherical boulevard. Roland-Garros is located at "The porte d'Auteuil". The Racing Club is also very close to it. Tilden played in Paris in 1921? in St-Cloud, Stade Français, also called "La Faisanderie". It still exist today. Tilden played again in 1927 in the Racing Club (he lost against Lacoste). Then, again in 1929 and 1930 in Roland-Garros ("Auteuil")<<<<
Also thanks to Liesl for the new information.

I don't exactly know what you call Boulogne when you write "Auteuil was a small village near Boulogne in the XIX century". Is it the "Bois de Boulogne" which is a wooden era inside Paris nowadays or the French commune "Boulogne-Billancourt" which borders Paris and in particular Roland Garros ?

However I found this in the following link http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auteuil
which refers to several different Auteuil :

* Auteuil, ancienne commune française du département de la Seine annexée à Paris en 1860 et devenue le quartier d'Auteuil dans le XVIe arrondissement de Paris. Il a donné son nom à :
o l'hippodrome d'Auteuil
o l'église d'Auteuil
o la Porte d'Auteuil
o Un central téléphonique parisien.
* Auteuil, commune française de l'Oise ;
* Auteuil, commune française des Yvelines.
* Auteuil, quartier de Laval, Quebec

It means that "Auteuil" was a French commune bordering Paris until 1860.
"Auteuil" has given its name to a racecourse, a church, to the famous gate, la Porte d'Auteuil (gate = porte in French), and a Parisian telephone centre.
As you can guess from the link above there is a French commune called Auteuil in the French department "L'Oise", another one in the department "Les Yvelines" and even a district in Laval, Quebec.

Paris has grown through its history and in particular in 1860 (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anciennes_communes_de_Paris).
Some communes have been fully annexed :
* La Villette,
* Belleville,
* Vaugirard,
* Grenelle.
Others have been split in two and suppressed :
* Passy,
* Auteuil,
* Batignolles-Monceau,
* Montmartre,
* La Chapelle,
* Charonne,
* Bercy.
So from now on Auteuil doesn't exist anymore as a commune and has been annexed both by Paris and Boulogne-Billancourt.
The part of the late commune Auteuil annexed by Paris is nowadays a quarter enclosed in the 16th arrondissement (district) of Paris (Paris has 20 arrondissements in all).

Finally some other communes have been amputated :
* Neuilly,
* Clichy,
* Saint-Ouen,
* Aubervilliers,
* Pantin,
* Le Pré-Saint-Gervais,
* Saint-Mandé,
* Bagnolet,
* Ivry,
* Gentilly,
* Montrouge,
* Vanves,
* Issy.
it means that they still exist nowadays but a part of each of them has been annexed by Paris in 1860.

About Boulogne you could also look at http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulogne
where you could check that "Le Bois de Boulogne" is also in the 16th arrondissement (district) of Paris.
 

krosero

Legend
I don't exactly know what you call Boulogne when you write "Auteuil was a small village near Boulogne in the XIX century". Is it the "Bois de Boulogne" which is a wooden era inside Paris nowadays or the French commune "Boulogne-Billancourt" which borders Paris and in particular Roland Garros ?
I can't recall either (it was months ago), whether the Bois de Boulogne or Boulogne-Billancourt was meant. I was quoting an email.

Carlo, just note regarding the other thread: Borgforever said in a post months ago that he doesn't read this forum anymore. And indeed he has not posted since then. So he may not know that you are posting replies to him; possibly he may never know.

Were you able to find anything on Rosewall and the French/Wimbledon in the 70s?

Thanks.
 
...
1. It begins with a reference to "le championnat individuel de Lawn tennis". On clay it would be no lawn tennis. Earlier in Quidets book it is stated, that the Racing Club had two grass (herbe) courts. ...

Hello urban,

the fact that a tourney was labelled "... lawn tennis championships" doesn't mean it was automatically held on grass.
For instance in January 1927 the Cannes Beau Site tournament was referred in The (London) Times as the "Beau Site Lawn Tennis tournament" and was, I think, held on clay.
However the tournament which you refer was possibly held on grass.
 
I can't recall either (it was months ago), whether the Bois de Boulogne or Boulogne-Billancourt was meant. I was quoting an email.

Carlo, just note regarding the other thread: Borgforever said in a post months ago that he doesn't read this forum anymore. And indeed he has not posted since then. So he may not know that you are posting replies to him; possibly he may never know.

Were you able to find anything on Rosewall and the French/Wimbledon in the 70s?

Thanks.

Hello krosero,

about Borgforever I wasn't fully aware of his exit however I think it was important to reply to his statements in this forum and to give another point of view as his.
If I get his private address back I will send him my posts but I think I have erased it.

About Kenny at the French I can just say this :
A few weeks ago I counted how many WCT players were in the 1971 French draw but unfortunately I have already forgotten the right number : about 15 or 16 or 17 out of 34 WCT players entered this event (among them Ashe, Riessen and Pasarell). If my memory is good Lamar Hunt even pushed his players to enter the clay Slam event in 1971 but most of them were already tired by a gruelling season. If I believe Rosewall’s own article in World of Tennis ’72 he asked WCT heads a permission to have a leave because his sons were in holidays so Kenny was exempted from playing the Italian Open and Teheran tourneys (this is why he played “only” 18 out of the 20 tournaments of the circuit held before the play-offs in Houston&Dallas).
I then guess that he didn’t want to make the trip from Down Under to Paris. But given that so few of the best WCT players entered the French and that it caused in part the future split between the ILTF and Hunt, Rosewall claimed he regretted not to have come to Paris that year.
I guess you have already look at http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4546554&postcount=31
 
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newmark401

Professional
Given the fact that the Renshaws were playing lawn tennis in Cannes in the 1880s, it’s strange to think that a top-class tournament didn’t really get off the ground in that French Riviera town until circa 1904. (There was one in 1901 and an attempt at one in 1903.)

Of the attempt at a tournament in 1903, “Lawn Tennis and Croquet” said the following in April of that year:

“The Beau Site Tournament at Cannes followed the Nice meeting. With most of the crack players either gone or engaged in the golf contests at La Napoule, there were no open events, although both the Dohertys, Countess Schulenburg, Mrs Winch and G.W. Hillyard took part in the Handicaps.”

It appears that the players, especially Reggie and Laurie Doherty, favoured the tournaments in Monte Carlo and Nice.
-----
 

newmark401

Professional
This is an excerpt from "Lawn Tennis on the European Continent" a piece written circa 1898 by the American lawn tennis player and journalist Jahial Parmly Paret:

"In France there is a very sharp distinction between the early season on the Riviera and the regular French tournaments. During February and March each year there are always a number of meetings held in the most popular resorts of the south, Cannes, Nice, Monte Carlo and others, but these are monopolized almost entirely by the visiting English experts. Last season the Dohertys and a few other crack English players took about everything in sight, handicaps and all, while the sprinkling of Italian, French, German and American players filled in the background, the only prominent one of them being Count [Viktor] Voss. This early season on the Riviera offers the best possible kind of preliminary practice for the more important campaigns later in the season, while the balmy climate of southern France at this season of the year and the boundless attractions of the resorts of the Riviera are enough to insure the return each spring of all the old favorites.

"The round of these Riviera tournaments always leads up to the open French championship meeting, which is held in Paris during Easter week. The covered courts of the Tennis Club de Paris, at Auteuil, are of the best, and the management of the tournament in the hands of MM. Masson and Hetley is beyond reproach. A delegation of English layers usually crosses the Channel for this meeting alone, beside those who journey up from the Riviera meetings and stop over in Paris on their way back to England. The tournament lasts from Good Friday over until Easter Monday, as a rule, and the French capital offers many attractions for the visiting players at this, its gayest season. For the party of Englishmen this meeting always furnishes one of the best of holidays, with a reasonable certainty of bringing back with them the greater share of the handsomeprizes the Frenchmen always put up.

"Later in the season, generally in August and September, there is another small 'circuit' over in France that appeals to English players, and the Dinard, Boulogne-sur-Mer and St. Servan meetings always attract a goodly list of foreigners, a delegation of the second-class Britishers invariably crossing over and bringing back the usual lion’s share of the honors. It is unfortunate that these three meetings generally conflict with other big tournaments in England, but there are no vacant weeks in the English schedule after the season once begins, so the French must be satisfied with such of the foreigners as they can entice away from the attractions of Eastbourne, Brighton, and the other famous English meetings at the end of the season."
 
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timnz

Legend
Sand, Clay or Grass - are we sure, definitive?

This new chronology is less tentative. The Closed French Championships were only open to French nationals and players licensed with French clubs. They were first held in 1891 and won by the elusive Briton Mr H. Briggs; there was no women's singles event until 1897. During the first eighteen years of the tournament's existence it was held alternately on the Île de Puteaux, an island on the Seine to the west of Paris, and at the Racing Club de France in the Bois de Boulogne, also in Paris.

After a one-off visit to Bordeaux in 1909 (there was strong competition between the Bordeaux clubs, which had excellent players, and those in Paris), the FCC returned to the Racing Club de France in Paris and stayed there until they were discontinued in 1924. The tournament was not held during the First World War.

I don't know the first name of P. Girod, winner in 1901, nor of the Comtesse de Kermel, winner in 1907. Adine Masson had the first name Françoise, but seems to have been popularly known as Adine.

According to Heiner Gillmeister in "Tennis - A Cultural History", the first courts at the Île de Puteaux were sand laid out on a bed of rubble; they more than likely had clay courts there too at a later stage.
----------------

Original venues and surfaces of Closed French Championships

Year Venue Surface Winner

1891 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand

1892 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay

1893 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand

1894 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay

1895 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand

1896 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay

1897 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand Adine Masson

1898 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Adine Masson

1899 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand Adine Masson

1900 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Hélène Prévost

1901 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand P. Girod

1902 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Adine Masson

1903 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand Adine Masson

1904 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Kate Gillou

1905 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand Kate Gillou

1906 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Kate G. Fenwick

1907 Île de Puteaux, Paris Sand Comt. de Kermel

1908 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Kate G. Fenwick

1909 Société Athlétique de la Villa
Primrose, Bordeaux Clay Jeanne Mathey

1910 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Jeanne Mathey

1911 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Jeanne Mathey

1912 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Jeanne Mathey

1913 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Marguerite Broquedis

1914 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Marguerite Broquedis

1920 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Suzanne Lenglen

1921 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Suzanne Lenglen

1922 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Suzanne Lenglen

1923 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Suzanne Lenglen

1924 Racing Club de France, Paris Clay Diddie Vlasto
------------

When the "Internationaux de France de Tennis" (now the French Open) tournament came into existence in 1925, the venue was the Stade Français in Saint Cloud on the outskirts of Paris. Suzanne Lenglen won the women's singles title that year.

In 1926, the venue was the Racing Club de France in Paris. Suzanne Lenglen won her last major singles title at this event. In 1927, the tournament was held for the last time at the Stade Français in Saint Cloud. Kornelia "Kea" Bouman of the Netherlands won the women's singles title.

The Stade Roland-Garros was inaugurated in 1928 and the tournament has been held there ever since. Helen Wills was the first winner of the women's singles title at this new venue.

This list is really good.

So can we say with confidence now what the surface of Île de Puteaux & the Racing Club de France was? In the above quote it looks like the former was sand and the latter clay. Is that definitive. (It is just that I hear 'grass' bandied about on this forum. The above quote seems definitive to me anyway.)
 

newmark401

Professional
This list is really good.

So can we say with confidence now what the surface of Île de Puteaux & the Racing Club de France was? In the above quote it looks like the former was sand and the latter clay. Is that definitive. (It is just that I hear 'grass' bandied about on this forum. The above quote seems definitive to me anyway.)

It's so long ago since I made that entry I can't even remember what the sources were, though I know one of them was Alan Little's biography of Suzanne Lenglen. I'm fairly sure that there were no grass courts at those lawn tennis clubs in later years, and that the main surfaces were clay/sand/gravel; some clubs also had courts made from asphalt or a similar hard surface.
 
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