Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
QF. He lost to the first decent player he faced. The rankings didn’t work the same way back then, but I’m certain Roddick 2003/4 and Nadal 2005/6 approached that at a much younger age.
The biggest asterix in tennis history
- Thread starter SardinesForDinner
- Start date
QF. He lost to the first decent player he faced. The rankings didn’t work the same way back then, but I’m certain Roddick 2003/4 and Nadal 2005/6 approached that at a much younger age.
ForehandRF
Legend
Vultures have the toughest competition and if you don't believe me, go watch NatGeo lol
SardinesForDinner
Professional
Yes that would certainly be the reaction of someone who have judged Gonzalez only on paper rather than having watched his actual AO run and level of play.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Spencer Gore
Legend
I know! His record of taking down ATGs in slam finals proves it.
SardinesForDinner
Professional
Like the records of Tsitsipas, Medvedev, Zverev, Thiem and ANY OTHER PLAYER UNDER 30 prove? Lol
ForehandRF
Legend
I would say, let's asterisk anything outside the 2007-2013 stronk era and crown Nadal as the GOAT lol
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
He lost in straight sets to Federer, now somehow he’s going to take down AO GOAT in 4 sets?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
The biggest asterisk in tennis will always be Monica Seles being stabbed in her back and taken out of the game in her peak, removing Graf's toughest challenger which helped Graf then win 4 slams in a row and ultimately helped her get the open era record.
Nothing comes close to that.
Nothing comes close to that.
SardinesForDinner
Professional
That was Federer at his very peak. Djokovic in AO 2021 isn’t peak Djokovic. Why is it so hard for you guys to grasp the meaning of context?
SardinesForDinner
Professional
Yes, if you want to include bizarre incidents. Of course the Seles stabbing is something very different. If you just look at level of play etc nothing tops Djokovic’s 2021 slam titles. But Yeah, I see your point.
liriel
Semi-Pro
I love your post and I like Novak (no reasons needed). Thanks for reminding me about AO and his relatively poor form.
He might achieve something so extraordinary while being in not top form and with ease. Sport was never fair. I do agree with you. He didn't have amazing runs but "just" enough to win. Novak's form doesn't matter. He can win in his sleep. Clutch moments are his. I almost forgot how he recovered from 0:2 a few times. Wimbledon was so forgettable he faced no real opponent. So he was beatable but the results matter. Even Rafa choked after a great beginning and then moved terribly because of injury and frustration. I believe it was Novak's god mode moment when he saw how much he can achieve this year. Gave him fuel. Oh and NolelsBoat Tsisipas choked after winning 2 sets. There was something in the air though.. It would have been too easy.
It's very strange for me to assess properly Novak's form this year. His best year might be at his subpar form. US Open will be very interesting. Mostly it'd be team "everyone but Novak" vs Novak.
Edit: I'll also add that it "only" takes someone's great day vs Novak's bad/mediocre one to throw Djoker out of the competition. Yet no one for a year did that. It's almost unreal. Like so many times player x had a great run overall and then his opponent had one amazing day and the rest is history. In Novak's case it didn't happen. Only during the different format - Olympics. Which can show that he is beatable not once but twice. The opponents played better. It's not a slam though..
He might achieve something so extraordinary while being in not top form and with ease. Sport was never fair. I do agree with you. He didn't have amazing runs but "just" enough to win. Novak's form doesn't matter. He can win in his sleep. Clutch moments are his. I almost forgot how he recovered from 0:2 a few times. Wimbledon was so forgettable he faced no real opponent. So he was beatable but the results matter. Even Rafa choked after a great beginning and then moved terribly because of injury and frustration. I believe it was Novak's god mode moment when he saw how much he can achieve this year. Gave him fuel. Oh and NolelsBoat Tsisipas choked after winning 2 sets. There was something in the air though.. It would have been too easy.
It's very strange for me to assess properly Novak's form this year. His best year might be at his subpar form. US Open will be very interesting. Mostly it'd be team "everyone but Novak" vs Novak.
Edit: I'll also add that it "only" takes someone's great day vs Novak's bad/mediocre one to throw Djoker out of the competition. Yet no one for a year did that. It's almost unreal. Like so many times player x had a great run overall and then his opponent had one amazing day and the rest is history. In Novak's case it didn't happen. Only during the different format - Olympics. Which can show that he is beatable not once but twice. The opponents played better. It's not a slam though..
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was the best player of 2019 and then corona happened in 2020 and he skipped many tournaments including US Open where he was the defending champion.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Federer is arguably the most skilled tennis player we have ever seen. What makes you hate him so much?
SardinesForDinner
Professional
great post. It’s not Novak’s fault it’s the joke if his competition
Hitman
Bionic Poster
When Seles was stabbed and taken out at her peak, and remember at that point she was rapdily picking up slams and even had made her first W final the year before, there was a massive void in the competition for Graf to deal with. Sanchez Vicario didn't fully mature into a proper legitimate contender for Graf until RG 1994, the year she won two slams, and then continued to compete at the level that was needed to win more titles. Graf just swept her way to four slams in a row very easily at that point, and that is nothing like 2021 for Djokovic or anyone else, none of his opponents were stabbed and taken out. Graf wasn't the best in the game at that point, it was Seles, in 2021 Djokovic is the best in the game even if you want to question the quality of his oppostion, so even level of play wise Graf's run from the stabbing of Seles to Sanchez Vicario stepping up from one slam wonder to consistent slam contender has without a doubt the biggest asterisk I have ever seen.
Then when we look at numbers, Court has 24 slams to her name, the largest number of any player, yet 11 of them were won at AO against lets face it, very questionable competition.
So the top two women....Court for the all time, and Graf for the Open Era, before Serena came along both have asterisks that can easly weigh move heavily that the one being impied to Novak's run in 2021.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Prime nishikori?
RaulRamirez
Legend
..must be a very weak era for sardines -- especially the ones served for dinner.
Spencer Gore
Legend
It's fine. We've established you think winning four slams in a row is The Grand Slam.
With absolutely no disrespect, I prefer discussing these issues with people who know the basics. I'll be happy to discuss with you in a few years when you understand why the Grand Slam is a big deal in tennis and why real fans would love to see it with their own eyes rather than just a repeat of what happened last year.
Stick with it and you'll grow to love the game, not individual players.Good luck with your journey!
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I hope you grow up and grow out of your Federer hatred. You will miss him when he's gone. Most tennis fans will. Maybe when you're in your 30s you'll understand better.
Probably because you are making up gibberish.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Lol Djokovic would straight set that mug any day of the week!
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
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Texas Tennis Fan
Professional
Silly, but predictable post. The younger players, especially Medvedev, Zverev, Thiem, and Tsitsipas show they belong. Also, Djokovic has already had four slams in a row, which has probably been de-emphasized since he was far behind in the Slam race at the time.
Federer had his first 10 slam wins against weaker players and couldn't do four in a row. Nadal has most of his slams and other tournaments on clay and couldn't do it. Just accept that Djokovic is likely to be the GOAT especially if he wins the USO and other slams in the next few years as we have been predicting for years. Everyone else including tennis experts will agree other than special pleading, blindly loyal Fedal fans.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
He will never do that. In fact your Spanish hero and Federer have vultured the most 250 and 500 events. Djokovic already leads them in the big titles (slams, masters and world tours) and he’s the youngest and has more time on his side to get more.
TimHenmanATG
Hall of Fame
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Do the smaller titles really count as being vultured? That's just going after smaller prey, like a tiger, perhaps. A vulture would always prefer to opportunistically tuck into a grand carcass.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Tiki-Taka
Semi-Pro
You gave us an article long post about placing an asterisk on not just anything but an actual Calendar Slam, and I am supposed to believe your annoyance that Federer is being surpassed played no part in making such a statement. We can single out a match here or there where his opponents didn't play as well as it was initially expected, Medvedev certainly comes to mind considering how hot he was prior to the Australia final. But a disappointing final is nothing we haven't seen many times before, and for a Slam sweep to happen in any manner quite a few things have to align. Bottom line, it's quite disrespectful, dismissive towards Novak's quality and aura to suggest he'd have lost early in any other era playing like he has this year, or if his rivals today were just decent enough, implying they are like some clueless amateurs. It's usually on his racket. And even when it wasn't like when he was playing Rafa at the French with a convincing, bagel included loss from last year still fresh, he battled through. And that was exceptional.
Yugram
Legend
More asterisks to the God of asterisks!
liriel
Semi-Pro
Reasonable post but I believe (I might be wrong) the OP didn't mean the GOAT debate but the fact that Novak's best year tennis wise and the one that will make history will not be his best at all. It's reasonable on his part. Don't look for hate that's my motto here.
I'll just add it's not Novak's fault that his opponents didn't step up. At all.
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The Fedfather
Legend
In the end, Djokovic won 3 Slams by going through the field of top players without any damning incidents like multiple walkovers or bad calls on crucial points. Not like Novak himself can do anything about how his opponents end up playing.
That being said, considering the top level Djokovic needed to bring in those Slams and his average level, is this potential CYGS the be all of greatness that couldn't be replicated by any other great of the game? I don't think it is. The first 3 wins just weren't THAT impressive or challenging (by the greatest players' standards). So, there's no asterisk, it's an amazing achievement, but it won't put Djokovic on some special pedestal,
That being said, considering the top level Djokovic needed to bring in those Slams and his average level, is this potential CYGS the be all of greatness that couldn't be replicated by any other great of the game? I don't think it is. The first 3 wins just weren't THAT impressive or challenging (by the greatest players' standards). So, there's no asterisk, it's an amazing achievement, but it won't put Djokovic on some special pedestal,
dumb-person
Rookie
hit the table, and shears to appeal
Its liferally you spending entire days writing paragraphs just to devalue someone's victories. I dont even think any of Federer slams was weak, i was just baiting people like you. Just get your life, stop living through people you have never met and move on
Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
The post makes no mention of Federer. Don’t know what that has to do with this.
Of course in this era you have Anderson making 2 slam finals, Berrettini making a Wimbledon final. Slam SFs with tItans like RBA, PCB, Pouille, Isner, Hurkacz, Karatsev, Schwartzman.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
You desperate to clutch on to any straw you can to give your phony clay specialist a chance still to get the most slams? haha
Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
Djokovic is GOAT, but there’s no question he’s been enjoying a free ride since 2018. Medvedev, Tsitsipas and Zverev, at their physical peak, have collectively been unable to beat Djokovic who’s 9-11 years older than them even once. What about Dimitrov, Raonic, Nishikori and Goffin? They were supposed to challenge the big 3 and block nextgen but they’ve done nothing.
Frenchy-Player
Hall of Fame
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
How is 2018 - 2019 Wimbledon a free ride? If they’re classed as easy then Fed won like 3 strong slams between 03-10
It's to be expected. The closer Djoker gets to slam record....the saltier Fedfans get...and they take out their frustration on the next gens and their inability to beat da djoka.
It's not like their hero fared much better vs Djoker in slams.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
That’s what happens when fanboys live vicariously through their idols, rather than being fans of tennis itself. I was happy with Djokovic reaching 15 and becoming AO GOAT with 7 there. No player is bigger than the sport.
Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
In the strong years of 2011-2014, it was almost guaranteed that you had to beat 2 of the top 4 in a row to win a slam. In Wimbledon 2018, he had a tough match vs Nadal then had a free ride in the finals. In 2019, he sleepwalked to the title, playing well below his best. Free ride in the SF and then ancient half-dead Federer in the finals.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
This is where you lose me (bolded).. ridiculous statement.
beltsman
G.O.A.T.
I always go by my own eyes, an I can barely watch the garbage tennis these days. I fin myself watching old matches on YouTube instead. Just look at the matches from 03-12 and compare them to 13-21, the quality dropoff is immeasurable.
05-07 Fed or 08-10 Bull (when he wasn't injured) would barely be losing sets to ANYONE playing right now, including Djokovic.
Can you imagine Medvedev trying his dumb gangly game vs peak Fed or Nadal? 6-1 6-2 6-0.
05-07 Fed or 08-10 Bull (when he wasn't injured) would barely be losing sets to ANYONE playing right now, including Djokovic.
Can you imagine Medvedev trying his dumb gangly game vs peak Fed or Nadal? 6-1 6-2 6-0.
D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Some Fed fans these days.
If Fed was winning these titles they would praise Fed and his ability to win against new gen of strong players...
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