the most painful defeat for a GOAT ?

[jean pierre]

Borg : final USO 1981 (against McEnroe)
McEnroe : final FO 1984 (Lendl)
Connors : final USO 1977 (Vilas) or maybe semi-final FO 1979 (Pecci)
Vilas : final FO 1982 (Wilander)
Lendl : final Wimbledon 1987 (Cash)
Edberg : final FO 1989 (Chang)
....

 

[Limpinhitter]

Laver's loss to Rosewall in the 1972 WCT Final in Dallas.

 

[TahoeTennis]

This is the most painful defeat of all time, GOAT or not. With this one win, Roddick would have risen at least one "tier", ended his career on a zenith having defeated his nemesis just this ONCE on the biggest stage.

 

[pc1]

Borg : final USO 1981 (against McEnroe)
McEnroe : final FO 1984 (Lendl)
Connors : final USO 1977 (Vilas) or maybe semi-final FO 1979 (Pecci)
Vilas : final FO 1982 (Wilander)
Lendl : final Wimbledon 1987 (Cash)
Edberg : final FO 1989 (Chang)
....

Another one to consider with Vilas is his loss to Orantes in the 1975 US Open semi after being up two sets to none and later up 5-0 15-40 in the fourth set.
Lendl's loss in the YEC to Becker has to be considered too.
Tilden losing the 1927 Wimbledon semi to Cochet after leading two sets to none and 5-1 in the third set.
Federer losing to Nadal in the 2009 Australian Open final.
Djokovic losing to Nadal at the 2013 French Open semi 9-7 in the fifth set.
Stan Stan losing to John Newcombe in the fifth set of the 1973 Davis cup final.

 

[Mainad]

This is the most painful defeat of all time, GOAT or not. With this one win, Roddick would have risen at least one "tier", ended his career on a zenith having defeated his nemesis just this ONCE on the biggest stage.

The look on Andy's face. Most heartbreaking pic I've ever seen at a Wimbledon final!

 

[Limpinhitter]

Another one to consider with Vilas is his loss to Orantes in the 1975 US Open semi after being up two sets to none and later up 5-0 15-40 in the fourth set.
Lendl's loss in the YEC to Becker has to be considered too.
Tilden losing the 1927 Wimbledon semi to Cochet after leading two sets to none and 5-1 in the third set.
Federer losing to Nadal in the 2009 Australian Open final.
Djokovic losing to Nadal at the 2013 French Open semi 9-7 in the fifth set.
Stan Stan losing to John Newcombe in the fifth set of the 1973 Davis cup final.

Stan Stan? Haha! Is that the match where Smith double faulted going for a second serve ace on match point down? Anyway, I don't think of Smith as GOAT worthy, and, to my recollection, he didn't seem terribly upset about it. He always seemed very casual about everything.

 

[pc1]

Stan Stan? Haha! Is that the match where Smith double faulted going for a second serve ace on match point down? Anyway, I don't think of Smith as GOAT worthy, and, to my recollection, he didn't seem terribly upset about it. He always seemed very casual about everything.

Yes I'm sure that was the match. It was a terrific match if I recall but I haven't seen it since 1973. I wish I could see that match again. That was Newcombe at his best.

I figured I just talk about greats. I forgot the thread was about GOATs worthy type players. Well Stan Smith was pretty good at that time and capable of beating anyone.

 

[BGod]

Lendl to Becker in 86. I mean, being straight set by a 16 year old could not have been encouraging.

 

[Mainad]

Lendl to Becker in 86. I mean, being straight set by a 16 year old could not have been encouraging.

Be fair, he got straight setted by an 18 year old.

 

[pc1]

Lendl to Becker in 86. I mean, being straight set by a 16 year old could not have been encouraging.

Be fair, he got straight setted by an 18 year old.

He was not exactly an ordinary teen. He was Boris Becker. Rod Laver was beaten 6-1 6-1 by a teen also who was 18 the first time they met. The guy had the same initials as Boris Becker. He was some teen named Bjorn Borg who turned out to be a decent player.

 

[70後]

Lendl's loss in the YEC to Becker has to be considered too.

This one hurt so much. 50 stroke rally only to lose it on a net cord. I badly wanted Lendl to win this that year, but 1988 was a bad year for both, Lendl losing number one and his French and US to Wilander, Becker losing Wimbledon to Edberg, Nabisco Masters was the last chance to salvage their season and after a titanic epic battle it was Becker who won. Lendl afterwards, I felt he was a shattered man.

 

[Limpinhitter]

He was not exactly an ordinary teen. He was Boris Becker. Rod Laver was beaten 6-1 6-1 by a teen also who was 18 the first time they met. The guy had the same initials as Boris Becker. He was some teen named Bjorn Borg who turned out to be a decent player.

I think Borg might have been 17 at the time, and that Laver didn't take him seriously enough. He should have scouted that "alien," better before the match.

 

[70sHollywood]

Another one to consider with Vilas is his loss to Orantes in the 1975 US Open semi after being up two sets to none and later up 5-0 15-40 in the fourth set.
Lendl's loss in the YEC to Becker has to be considered too.
Tilden losing the 1927 Wimbledon semi to Cochet after leading two sets to none and 5-1 in the third set.
Federer losing to Nadal in the 2009 Australian Open final.
Djokovic losing to Nadal at the 2013 French Open semi 9-7 in the fifth set.
Stan Stan losing to John Newcombe in the fifth set of the 1973 Davis cup final.

I think Lendl has to be a Wimbledon match. Maybe 1990 semi, having skipped what turned out to be a very winnable RG and winning Queens in the manner he did.

For Tilden you could have the 1927 French Championships final. 11-9 in the fifth. This was the one with the dodgy line call against Tilden on match point, right?

 

[pc1]

I think Lendl has to be a Wimbledon match. Maybe 1990 semi, having skipped what turned out to be a very winnable RG and winning Queens in the manner he did.

For Tilden you could have the 1927 French Championships final. 11-9 in the fifth. This was the one with the dodgy line call against Tilden on match point, right?

Cochet actually called the lines!

 

[KG1965]

Borg : final USO 1981 (against McEnroe)
McEnroe : final FO 1984 (Lendl)
Connors : final USO 1977 (Vilas) or maybe semi-final FO 1979 (Pecci)
Vilas : final FO 1982 (Wilander)
Lendl : final Wimbledon 1987 (Cash)
Edberg : final FO 1989 (Chang)
....

For Borg was painful because he understood that he was towards the end, ... but Mac was too strong .

On clay Vilas 77 > Connors 77
On clay Pecci 79 >> Connors 79

Cash >> Lendl on grass in 1987

The greatest disappointment among these I think both McEnroe in 1984 , but even then Lendl on clay was a war machine .

 

[KG1965]

Laver in Dallas ?
Jimbo against Ashe at Wimbledon 75 ( although there are some unclear aspects ...)
Borg leaking from Mac to Flushing in 1980 when he could win the GS.

 

[PDJ]

Evert losing to Navratilova USO Final 1984.
With more belief and confidence she could have won this.
The upshot was that Evert gained ground with her nemesis and settled with her metal racquet and was far more successful in 1985.
Every cloud......
Evert herself would probably say the sf loss to Virginia Wade, Wimbledon 77.

 

[hoodjem]

Evert losing to Navratilova USO Final 1984.
With more belief and confidence she could have won this.
The upshot was that Evert gained ground with her nemesis and settled with her metal racquet . . . .

Evert used a metal racquet?

 

[PDJ]

Every used a metal racquet?

Well probably graphite. But I'm sure you know what I meant - the change from wood.

 

[hoodjem]

Well probably graphite. But I'm sure you know what I meant - the change from wood.

OK. I had thought she went from her Wilson wood to a Pro Staff around 1984.

But I did not know she used any metal racquet. (So no, I did not know what you meant.)

 

[pc1]

OK. I had thought she went from her Wilson wood to a Pro Staff around 1984.

But I did not know she used any metal racquet. (So no, I did not know what you meant.)

I have a friend who gave a good argument that Evert used wood while Navratilova used a more modern racquet (graphite?) for ten matches and one Evert switched she was more competitive. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[jrepac]

OK. I had thought she went from her Wilson wood to a Pro Staff around 1984.

But I did not know she used any metal racquet. (So no, I did not know what you meant.)

Chris had the Pro Staff in '84

 

[metsman]

09 AO

 

[PacificOceanBlue]

Borg: US Open 1976 on clay. He should have beat Connors, let it slip away. He is on record as saying that is the one match he could have, and should have won. He also could have pulled off the 1980 Open final against McEnroe, but that was arguably a more difficult match.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

In hindsight this was probably the most painful loss for RF. Wimbledon was his crown jewel and the 2008 final he played brilliantly, but Rafa was just too strong for him. After this whenever he played Rafa, or indeed anyone, he began to play safe on break points = confidence loss.

The most heartbreaking loss is one that affects you forever, to me Wimbledon 2008 was it for RF.

 

[NatF]

In hindsight this was probably the most painful loss for RF. Wimbledon was his crown jewel and the 2008 final he played brilliantly, but Rafa was just too strong for him. After this whenever he played Rafa, or indeed anyone, he began to play safe on break points = confidence loss.

The most heartbreaking loss is one that affects you forever, to me Wimbledon 2008 was it for RF.

A GOAT's most hearbreaking loss is going from his hair then to now...

 

[donnayblack99]

Sampras' defeat by Federer in his last Wimby...

 

[hoodjem]

A GOAT's most hearbreaking loss is going from his hair then to now...

Cruel.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Well probably graphite. But I'm sure you know what I meant - the change from wood.

I think Evert used the same Wilson Pro Staff that Edberg, Courier and Sampras used.

 

[PDJ]

I think Evert used the same Wilson Pro Staff that Edberg, Courier and Sampras used.

Thanks. I've never really paid a great deal of attention to racquets - including my own. I test and if I like I play with. I know mine are Wilson, but not a clue as to the model. And I play to a reasonably high standard it's just something I've never especially bothered about.
But, I am particular about tennis shoes.
Go figure.

 

[Deleted member 742196]

A GOAT's most hearbreaking loss is going from his hair then to now...

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if there's a correlation between heartbreaking tennis losses and hairfall. I know the emotional turmoil I feel when I'm playing my tiny little set in the middle of pudunkit, nowhere. What must these guys - at their young ages - go through?

Cruel.

Yeah. Tennis is cruel. Possibly the most cruel of all major sports between the scoring system, isolation in the middle of a court, and battling your own issues. You sort of reach a point where it's the pain and cruelty that drives you forward. My personal theory is us tennis players must enjoy that anguish in some way.

 

[90's Clay]

 

[Limpinhitter]

Ouch! I think we might have a winner.

 

[BTURNER]

what about Graf and Court? Not answering, just asking.

 

[BTURNER]

Evert losing to Navratilova USO Final 1984.
With more belief and confidence she could have won this.
The upshot was that Evert gained ground with her nemesis and settled with her metal racquet and was far more successful in 1985.
Every cloud......
Evert herself would probably say the sf loss to Virginia Wade, Wimbledon 77.

So as not to mislead. Evert never said that the loss to Wade was especially painful at the time. She said it was the one match she would like most to redo. Its not the same question that she was answering. I think that has more to do with how easy it should have been to win and its impact in retrospect on her legacy, rather than the actual pain that the loss caused at the time. I agree that the Open final has to be one of the most painful losses if not the most. But that loss to Tracy in the '79 Open may be up there too. She has said that her most embarrassing result was being the only American not to win a medal at the '88 Olympics.

 

[PDJ]

So as not to mislead. Evert never said that the loss to Wade was especially painful at the time. She said it was the one match she would like most to redo. Its not the same question that she was answering. I think that has more to do with how easy it should have been to win and its impact in retrospect on her legacy, rather than the actual pain that the loss caused at the time. I agree that the Open final has to be one of the most painful losses if not the most. But that loss to Tracy in the '79 Open may be up there too. She has said that her most embarrassing result was being the only American not to win a medal at the '88 Olympics.

I'm positive I read that she said she cried for days after the loss to Wade. It may be in one of the biogs on her. I'll check.

 

[70sHollywood]

what about Graf and Court? Not answering, just asking.

I guess the easy pick for Graf would be 93 AO.

Court is tougher to pick. A Wimbledon loss seems the most likely, so I'll say 73 W. Could also pick 64 W.

You make a good point in the other comment. These are hindsight picks, considering legacy etc...Whether they are the most painful at the time is another question.

 

[heninfan99]

bingo!

McEnroe : final FO 1984 (Lendl)
....

 

[hoodjem]

McEnroe : final FO 1984 (Lendl)

Yep. I still regret that one.

 

[pat200]

graf's most painful would be the 92 RG Final or 89 RG F

 

[WCT]

With McEnroe how could it be anything but the 84 French? The pain is how close you are. Add to that, this was his only real chance to win there. With 80 Wimbledon, he won 3 other times. This was his one real chance and he is 2 sets up. That's painful.

 

[NatF]

Was Mac's loss at the French really that devastating for him? In hindsight it might look like it but at the time he was still dominating the game to a ridiculous degree and won Wimbledon and the USO later that year.

 

[PDJ]

I guess the easy pick for Graf would be 93 AO.

Court is tougher to pick. A Wimbledon loss seems the most likely, so I'll say 73 W. Could also pick 64 W.

You make a good point in the other comment. These are hindsight picks, considering legacy etc...Whether they are the most painful at the time is another question.

I'm absolutely convinced Evert herself said she was devastated after the Wade loss and was inconsolable.
She's also on record feeling similarly after the US 84 Final.

 

[pc1]

Was Mac's loss at the French really that devastating for him? In hindsight it might look like it but at the time he was still dominating the game to a ridiculous degree and won Wimbledon and the USO later that year.

He has said he has nightmares about it

 

[urban]

Most painful win could be that of Sampras vs. Corretja at USO 1996. But when i see all these horror falls at this year Olympics, that of those men and women bicycle racers, which could have ended deadly, or that broken leg of the French Gymnast, i must think of real pains. Sometimes i think, modern commercialized sports is killing himself, and if not himself then the people who compete.

 

[70sHollywood]

I'm absolutely convinced Evert herself said she was devastated after the Wade loss and was inconsolable.
She's also on record feeling similarly after the US 84 Final.

Sorry, I wasn't responding to the Evert/Wade debate, I was referring to my picks for Graf and Court as being hindsight picks.

Anyway, here is an article about the W 77 match. Certainly seems Evert was more emotional than normal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...n-semis/c651160c-924c-4872-8db8-10fa6a5f6eda/

 

[Arafel]

I think for Connors, the loss to Borg in five sets at Wimbledon in 77 might be more painful than his loss to Vilas at the U.S. that year, although both were particularly painful. The Wimbledon match was close, and Connors was playing with a broken thumb on his right hand, and that one match really turned around the rivalry between the two.

The U.S. was the one where Connors never felt he lost because he thought it was a bad call and then all the fans swarmed onto the court and parade Vilas around on their shoulders and Connors just walked off the court.

 

[hoodjem]

Was Mac's loss at the French really that devastating for him? In hindsight it might look like it but at the time he was still dominating the game to a ridiculous degree and won Wimbledon and the USO later that year.

I think somewhere in an interview he said he would wake up years later having nightmares about it.

 

[NatF]

He has said he has nightmares about it

I think somewhere in an interview he said he would wake up years later having nightmares about it.

I stand corrected.