The most regretful events of the Open Era.
- Thread starter JAY1
- Start date
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Navratilova? I always thought her unpopularity was primarily due to Chris Evert being so popular. Then you have her being from Czechoslovakia during the cold war years of the 70's and 80's (yes she became a U.S citizen)... then all the other stuff.
Serena Williams being defaulted at U.S Open, for threatening a lineswoman, has to be an all time low for sportsmanship, for women's or men's tennis.
Borgs early retirement.
The challenge system for line calls.
The hiring of Tracy Austin to provide tennis commentary.
Strawberries at Wimbledon.
Oversized racquets (anything in triple digits are for rec. players.)
Serena Williams being defaulted at U.S Open, for threatening a lineswoman, has to be an all time low for sportsmanship, for women's or men's tennis.
Borgs early retirement.
The challenge system for line calls.
The hiring of Tracy Austin to provide tennis commentary.
Strawberries at Wimbledon.
Oversized racquets (anything in triple digits are for rec. players.)
Last edited:
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
The Agassi cover-up ranks highly.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
LOL! I believe Chris Evert was just as painful... she spent 50% of her time in the commentary box moaning like she just bit her bottom lip every time she saw a great shot (you know, you can use your big girl words Chrissy!
Borg's coach loved to make excuses...Bjorn never did, but Lenart went on the record with his moaning and groaning. Yeah, the blister was nasty, no question, but he came out to play the match and that's that. Connors had the splint on his right hand in 77, yes, but he was a 2 hander on the backhand. Did it affect him? Maybe. And, in 75 he played with severe shin splints, but made the final. It was just his tenacious nature. '83 USO he had the bone spur on his foot...when he got the infamous, secret shot to relieve the pain. Twisted ankle in '85 USO semi as well, but he went out there, nonetheless. Point being, if you come out to play, shelve the excuses.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
From a personal point of view, the above.
From a historical point of view, Seles. This is accerbated by some of the people who post here who just have nothing but contempt for her and what she may have achieved. I was never a huge Seles fan but I certainly feel differently now.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Ha ha. Its true.
wasn't she playing Shriver?That said, wd we remember White other wise?
Ps- saw recent pics of her and she has aged damn well!
Great call. Amen.
AngieB
Banned
You mean that match where Steffi Graf thrashed Monica Seles in a Wimbledon final during Monica's prime? I wouldn't call that the most regretful event, rather, one of the most telling.
Everyone knows that Monica's weight and her poor athleticism hindered her grass court play. Stop using her grunting as an excuse, 20 years later.
cuckoo
#PTL #JC4Ever
#AngieB
#AngieB
Oh Definitely
Rookie
Right on! It's a strange event that if happened to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods (or heavens sake Pete Sampras) while they we the respective #1's everybody would still be lighting candles and howling at the Moon...
I'd just love to see anyone try and call Sharapova or Azarenka out on their grunting nowadays... see how far they get.
ScentOfDefeat
G.O.A.T.
Seles paved the way and helped it to become a normal occurrence on tour. When she did it it got a lot of attention because people weren't used to it. And, to be fair, people still aren't used to it, there are complaints every time players like Sharapova or Azarenka play. But there's a feeling nothing can be done about it.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
I agree, there are many spectators that complain, perhaps out of a misplaced sense of ownership over the players, or a need to control their experience...
These girls are full-on athletes, competing for hours in the hot sun, sweating up a storm for the world's enjoyment.
It is what it is, and if grunting, sealion barking or any other "noises" upset your precious viewing experience... they're showing the golf on ESPN2.
her 1992 final proved she could control her grunts. grunting a la seles, sharapova and co. is a disgusting sound that takes away from the viewer experience, as well as the opponent. it is so difficult to stay focused with loud sexual sounds coming out at you from the over side of the court.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Monica didn't have a weight problem back then.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
A very sexist remark, considering global efforts towards equality and respect... Why is it "sexual" and "disgusting" coming from a woman, yet Jimbo Connors, Johnny Mac and Andre the A-Train are never spoken about in such ways???
Pathetic.
And as for your sorrowful "viewer experience", the players may remind you it's a privilege to watch their contests, not a God given right. Why do you want to CONTROL their behaviour, accepting only what YOU deem allowable and/or respectable? Some people actually like the different sounds coming from the court...
How can you say grunting, exhaling, breathing, stretching, straining and otherwise emoting is somehow measurable to a level where you will solely judge their right to participate in any tournament?
suwanee4712
Professional
For me, I regret that Andrea Jaeger was so badly mismanaged. I'm blaming both Roland Jaeger and the WTA for this.
Roland for forgetting that he was her father first, and coach second. I say this knowing full well that he loved his daughter, but somehow he stopped being able to relate to her. When a 16 year old runs from you on the night before the Wimbledon final to the adversary that she is facing in that final in a matter of hours, that's a huge cry for help.
I wish that he could have had the foresight to curtail Andrea's schedule and let her be the kid that she wanted to be, not the hardened and cynical pro that she became. This is why I respect Mary Joe Fernandez's parents and the Davenports so much.
The WTA had a way of treating it's stars, age didn't seem to matter back in those days. For Andrea's sake, if her father wouldn't do it, someone from the WTA should have done something about the way that Andrea was acting out. Towards the end, it almost sounded dangerous.
To her credit, Andrea took control of her own life and became a truly powerful force for good, especially for kids.
But the tennis world was robbed of one of its most talented players. I put her hands on par with McEnroe's.
Roland for forgetting that he was her father first, and coach second. I say this knowing full well that he loved his daughter, but somehow he stopped being able to relate to her. When a 16 year old runs from you on the night before the Wimbledon final to the adversary that she is facing in that final in a matter of hours, that's a huge cry for help.
I wish that he could have had the foresight to curtail Andrea's schedule and let her be the kid that she wanted to be, not the hardened and cynical pro that she became. This is why I respect Mary Joe Fernandez's parents and the Davenports so much.
The WTA had a way of treating it's stars, age didn't seem to matter back in those days. For Andrea's sake, if her father wouldn't do it, someone from the WTA should have done something about the way that Andrea was acting out. Towards the end, it almost sounded dangerous.
To her credit, Andrea took control of her own life and became a truly powerful force for good, especially for kids.
But the tennis world was robbed of one of its most talented players. I put her hands on par with McEnroe's.
grunting by both men and women is disgusting. we were talking about women hence why i didnt mention any man. you trying to be smart and diminish my point by making it sound about sexism goes to show to what lows you will go to defend monica, who is by the way my second favorite player of all time. so that makes your point pathetic and you in need of getting over an event that happened 23 years ago, and start worrying more about events in your life rather than someone who doesnt even know you exist.
it is not a privilege for us to watch them, because if it werent for us watching them, they wouldnt be able to afford playing in any arena anywhere. it is a privilege for them that we pay hard earned money to watch them play, and our money is what increases prize money for them to earn in the millions and get endorsements. so if you want to talk of a privilege, it goes both ways.
as for participating in a tournament, i never said anything about that, you just assumed it by default, to sensationalize your reply.
it is not a privilege for us to watch them, because if it werent for us watching them, they wouldnt be able to afford playing in any arena anywhere. it is a privilege for them that we pay hard earned money to watch them play, and our money is what increases prize money for them to earn in the millions and get endorsements. so if you want to talk of a privilege, it goes both ways.
as for participating in a tournament, i never said anything about that, you just assumed it by default, to sensationalize your reply.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
OUCH!!!
I just got served...
You are so right. Your diminutive view of the World is totes correct and I should remember that Steffi Graf trained 6 hours a day from when she was <12 years old, and had cortisone injections before matches just so you wouldn't feel as though you wasted 60 bucks.
The grunting was not the most regretful event in tennis. Neither was the complaint by Navratilova, nor the inconsistent if well meaning effort by Wimbledon officials to get Monica to stop. None of this was a big deal.
The stabbing was a most regretful event. The intentional and public assault with a potentially lethal weapon, on a tennis court ,which nearly ended a nascent career of the Number 1 ranked player. That was a big deal! Is there no sense of perspective left around here?
The stabbing was a most regretful event. The intentional and public assault with a potentially lethal weapon, on a tennis court ,which nearly ended a nascent career of the Number 1 ranked player. That was a big deal! Is there no sense of perspective left around here?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Everything else pales in comparison.
Not sure if Hewitt's injuries has been mentioned before.
kiki
Banned
The missing rivalry we had in that Golden Era is, no doubt, Andrea vs Hana.Two fallen angels but the two most talented players of their generation
Paul Murphy
Hall of Fame
Wimbledon going too far in slowing down its courts.
Vegito
Hall of Fame
I wonder the same. But maybe those are things of destiny :neutral:
Vegito
Hall of Fame
Again, the rankings system in the 70´s. Many times they did not reflect the reality. Maybe if the best player saw himself in the number one spot when he deserved it, something in his career would have been different. Although I don´t know how important was the ATP ranking before, and there were other rankings. But anyway..
In the event that I'm not the only one who did not know or remember the rationale behind the FO excluding Connors in 1974 (per Wikipedia):
"In 1974, Connors was the dominant player. He had a 99–4 record that year and won 15 tournaments, including three of the four Grand Slam singles titles. The French Open did not allow Connors to participate due to his association with World Team Tennis (WTT).[4][5] However, he won the Australian Open, defeating Phil Dent in four sets. He also beat Ken Rosewall in straight sets in the finals of both Wimbledon and the US Open. His exclusion from the French Open denied him the opportunity to become the first man player since Rod Laver to win all four Major singles titles in a calendar year."
From the prospective of the long-term impact on professional tennis (and mark that specific qualification), I find the cowardice of the WTA and the ATP in refusing to stand up to Seles and her ilk and nip the grunting and shrieking in the bud to be the most regrettable occurrence in the past three decades.
From the prospective of individuals and humanity, the attack on Seles was worse, but it had an impact on the sport for only a few years and has not had any impact in the past decade except for the GS win totals in the record books of a few players. The attack was not something that could readily have been prevented. Let's face it, security at tournaments was too lax back then, it has improved significantly since then, but if a determined enough lunatic with some fairly modest resources wants to take out a professional tennis player, in the year 2015, he or she will still be able to hop onto a court at some tournament and attack a player or else stalk a player thoroughly enough to track him or her down eventually off-court, given that few if any professional athletes have the security details and level of protection of a head of state.
In contrast, the pro tours had complete and absolute ability to prevent the disgrace to the sport that has resulted from allowing Seles and those who followed her to make a mockery of sportspersonship with their shrieking, grunting, howling and groaning. They would not have needed to invent any new rationale, they simply would have needed the courage to stand up to the several players first starting this trend, definitively stated the truth, namely that the excuses given by the players for the noises they were making as some sort of natural exhalations were simply bogus and untrue, and they could have applied an existing rule of tennis. If they had called these noises for what they were and for what they were intended, as intentional distractions of opponents, they could have ended them by enforcing the rule against hindrances.
The claim that these noises are natural and are the player exhaling in a manner that allows them maximum performance is simply a lie. How do we know this? Well, first and foremost, we know that virtually none of these players are making these extreme noises when they practice, notwithstanding that they may be giving match-level or near-match-level exertion when they hit balls in practice. Someone a day or two back had a thread here in which they quoted Caroline Wozniacki making this exact point, that none of the shriekers, grunters and groaners make their distracting noises when practicing and who would know that better than a top-10 pro player? That thread had a link to a video of Victoria Azarenka, one of the most extreme shriekers, in a practice session. Azarenka was laying into the ball with what appeared to be full power. And with no opponent on the other side of the court to distract, she was doing it silently, no shrieking, nada. I've seen the same thing said of observations made during practice of most of the other pros who do this.
Second, let's talk about when these grunts and shrieks occur: these cheaters (and it is entirely fair to call someone who chronically attempts to hinder an opposing player with distracting noises a cheater) grunt and shriek all of the time in their matches, not just on shots where there is heavy exertion. That's right, on slices, which require minimal exertion, or even on drop shots, these cheaters are still creating this distracting noise. Watch these grunters and shriekers, and a significant portion of the time they are not even making their noises until the ball has crossed the net, demonstrating that the noise has nothing to do with the effort needed to make the shot; I've seen this multiple times with Nadal, Ferrer, and Sharapova over the past year. Finally we have the case of part-time shriekers and grunters, like Serena Williams. Much of the time, even in relatively hard-fought contests, she is relatively quiet, punctuating her matches with a few shrieks of frustration when she cannot get to a ball despite her best efforts (and has already lost the point). But if Serena is losing (and usually it is when she is playing poorly), she sometimes starts getting louder with her groaning. Murray is this way, too, sometimes grunting up a storm, but other times, such as in his 2015 Davis Cup match against Isner, he is nearly silent.
Third, let's talk about the specific noises being made. There's a guy in my league who, unlike many of us middle-aged guys of moderate enthusiasm, is in good shape and goes all-out on every point, giving pretty much 100% on every single point he plays. He grunts when he hits and it's from genuine exertion. It's a noise that is kind of in between "Unnnnhhh" and "Huuuuuuhhhh" which is the sort of noise any normal person might make exhaling with a rather extreme level of exertion. His grunting is not really noticeable more than a court away. In contrast, we have shriekers like Sharapova and Azarenka, with their swinging-a-cat-by-the-tail screams, Nadal and Ferrer with their castrating-a-donkey groans, and even Murray with his Bart-Simpson's-Grandpa-trying-to-pass-a-kidney-stone "NIIIIIIIHHHHH-HEEEHHHHH" sounds, all of which are loud enough that they can be heard outside of stadium courts. All are unnatural and disturbing sounds, all are louder than any conceivable need to exhale or breath forcibly during an aggressive motion. These are not natural sounds, they are contrived and for the purpose of distracting an opponent.
Fanbois and fangurrls of the shriekers and groaners come up with all sorts of disingenuous excuses, explanations and denials, one of which is that what their hero is doing is simply what he or she does and has no impact on the sport. Wrong. What's one of the three biggest, maybe the very biggest problems in the sport of tennis today? Lack of worldwide popularity. The grunters, groaners and shriekers are contributing to that lack of popularity.
Get any group of 10 sports fans together who are not tennis fans and ask the group why they don't watch more tennis and you might hear several different reasons, but one of them will be "I can't stand all the players' grunting and screaming - they should be banned" and you will see every person in the group nod their heads in agreement. I have had at least six, maybe ten friends and family members over the past decade tell me the same thing, that the grunting and shrieking is a big turn-off for them and as a result, they don't watch that much tennis, maybe only Breakfast at Wimbledon and the US Open finals.
If you are concerned about too much subjectivity going into the enforcement of the hindrance rule against grunts and shrieks, it’s probably not much of an issue, but it would be easy to subject the players to uniform, objective standards. Have a committee study a hundred or two professional tennis players and other athletes, agree on a threshold noise level for an exhalation under full exertion, and start hanging up sound meters (which are inexpensive electronics items) about fifteen feet up, maybe 15 feet behind the baseline, at tournament sites during practice time before the tournaments. Give the players an opportunity for a couple of months to see if their exhalations exceed the set limit. Then hang the sound meters for real at tournaments and start docking points and games for sound level hindrances. The players will learn fast and the sport will benefit significantly. If they can turn off the noise on the practice court, they can turn off the noise on the tournament court, too. I guarantee that a few of the worst offenders will grumble, but no one will decide to quit tennis and take up curling or billiards instead.
Oh Definitely, as I've explained above, people like you are full of nonsense and you are wrong. You are spewing horse manure on this topic and are nothing but an apologist for these cheaters. I really don't understand the mindset of an apologist. I hope that if you have children, you don't ever date a domestic abuser or pedophile, as your children will certainly be expressing looks of shock, horror and utter dismay when they desperately turn to you for protection and instead of supporting your own flesh and blood, they find that you are sticking up for their abuser and calling them liars.
From the prospective of individuals and humanity, the attack on Seles was worse, but it had an impact on the sport for only a few years and has not had any impact in the past decade except for the GS win totals in the record books of a few players. The attack was not something that could readily have been prevented. Let's face it, security at tournaments was too lax back then, it has improved significantly since then, but if a determined enough lunatic with some fairly modest resources wants to take out a professional tennis player, in the year 2015, he or she will still be able to hop onto a court at some tournament and attack a player or else stalk a player thoroughly enough to track him or her down eventually off-court, given that few if any professional athletes have the security details and level of protection of a head of state.
In contrast, the pro tours had complete and absolute ability to prevent the disgrace to the sport that has resulted from allowing Seles and those who followed her to make a mockery of sportspersonship with their shrieking, grunting, howling and groaning. They would not have needed to invent any new rationale, they simply would have needed the courage to stand up to the several players first starting this trend, definitively stated the truth, namely that the excuses given by the players for the noises they were making as some sort of natural exhalations were simply bogus and untrue, and they could have applied an existing rule of tennis. If they had called these noises for what they were and for what they were intended, as intentional distractions of opponents, they could have ended them by enforcing the rule against hindrances.
The claim that these noises are natural and are the player exhaling in a manner that allows them maximum performance is simply a lie. How do we know this? Well, first and foremost, we know that virtually none of these players are making these extreme noises when they practice, notwithstanding that they may be giving match-level or near-match-level exertion when they hit balls in practice. Someone a day or two back had a thread here in which they quoted Caroline Wozniacki making this exact point, that none of the shriekers, grunters and groaners make their distracting noises when practicing and who would know that better than a top-10 pro player? That thread had a link to a video of Victoria Azarenka, one of the most extreme shriekers, in a practice session. Azarenka was laying into the ball with what appeared to be full power. And with no opponent on the other side of the court to distract, she was doing it silently, no shrieking, nada. I've seen the same thing said of observations made during practice of most of the other pros who do this.
Second, let's talk about when these grunts and shrieks occur: these cheaters (and it is entirely fair to call someone who chronically attempts to hinder an opposing player with distracting noises a cheater) grunt and shriek all of the time in their matches, not just on shots where there is heavy exertion. That's right, on slices, which require minimal exertion, or even on drop shots, these cheaters are still creating this distracting noise. Watch these grunters and shriekers, and a significant portion of the time they are not even making their noises until the ball has crossed the net, demonstrating that the noise has nothing to do with the effort needed to make the shot; I've seen this multiple times with Nadal, Ferrer, and Sharapova over the past year. Finally we have the case of part-time shriekers and grunters, like Serena Williams. Much of the time, even in relatively hard-fought contests, she is relatively quiet, punctuating her matches with a few shrieks of frustration when she cannot get to a ball despite her best efforts (and has already lost the point). But if Serena is losing (and usually it is when she is playing poorly), she sometimes starts getting louder with her groaning. Murray is this way, too, sometimes grunting up a storm, but other times, such as in his 2015 Davis Cup match against Isner, he is nearly silent.
Third, let's talk about the specific noises being made. There's a guy in my league who, unlike many of us middle-aged guys of moderate enthusiasm, is in good shape and goes all-out on every point, giving pretty much 100% on every single point he plays. He grunts when he hits and it's from genuine exertion. It's a noise that is kind of in between "Unnnnhhh" and "Huuuuuuhhhh" which is the sort of noise any normal person might make exhaling with a rather extreme level of exertion. His grunting is not really noticeable more than a court away. In contrast, we have shriekers like Sharapova and Azarenka, with their swinging-a-cat-by-the-tail screams, Nadal and Ferrer with their castrating-a-donkey groans, and even Murray with his Bart-Simpson's-Grandpa-trying-to-pass-a-kidney-stone "NIIIIIIIHHHHH-HEEEHHHHH" sounds, all of which are loud enough that they can be heard outside of stadium courts. All are unnatural and disturbing sounds, all are louder than any conceivable need to exhale or breath forcibly during an aggressive motion. These are not natural sounds, they are contrived and for the purpose of distracting an opponent.
Fanbois and fangurrls of the shriekers and groaners come up with all sorts of disingenuous excuses, explanations and denials, one of which is that what their hero is doing is simply what he or she does and has no impact on the sport. Wrong. What's one of the three biggest, maybe the very biggest problems in the sport of tennis today? Lack of worldwide popularity. The grunters, groaners and shriekers are contributing to that lack of popularity.
Get any group of 10 sports fans together who are not tennis fans and ask the group why they don't watch more tennis and you might hear several different reasons, but one of them will be "I can't stand all the players' grunting and screaming - they should be banned" and you will see every person in the group nod their heads in agreement. I have had at least six, maybe ten friends and family members over the past decade tell me the same thing, that the grunting and shrieking is a big turn-off for them and as a result, they don't watch that much tennis, maybe only Breakfast at Wimbledon and the US Open finals.
If you are concerned about too much subjectivity going into the enforcement of the hindrance rule against grunts and shrieks, it’s probably not much of an issue, but it would be easy to subject the players to uniform, objective standards. Have a committee study a hundred or two professional tennis players and other athletes, agree on a threshold noise level for an exhalation under full exertion, and start hanging up sound meters (which are inexpensive electronics items) about fifteen feet up, maybe 15 feet behind the baseline, at tournament sites during practice time before the tournaments. Give the players an opportunity for a couple of months to see if their exhalations exceed the set limit. Then hang the sound meters for real at tournaments and start docking points and games for sound level hindrances. The players will learn fast and the sport will benefit significantly. If they can turn off the noise on the practice court, they can turn off the noise on the tournament court, too. I guarantee that a few of the worst offenders will grumble, but no one will decide to quit tennis and take up curling or billiards instead.
.
Oh Definitely, as I've explained above, people like you are full of nonsense and you are wrong. You are spewing horse manure on this topic and are nothing but an apologist for these cheaters. I really don't understand the mindset of an apologist. I hope that if you have children, you don't ever date a domestic abuser or pedophile, as your children will certainly be expressing looks of shock, horror and utter dismay when they desperately turn to you for protection and instead of supporting your own flesh and blood, they find that you are sticking up for their abuser and calling them liars.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
It's great to see such passion on the subject of hinderance while remaining "on topic"...
This is a valid opinion, and one most welcome on an open forum.
Yes, you must be referring to the "hinderance rule"... please, go on...
Sounds logical,
Yes, yes... somewhat of a rare commodity in today's world...
Um, huh... wha?!? Wait, did I miss something?
Oh, they're all lying? OK...
Practice is never as intense as the real thing baby.
Wozza is squeezing sour grapes... she's more than welcome to invoke he hinderance rule during her matches.
This is a valid opinion, and one most welcome on an open forum.
Yes, you must be referring to the "hinderance rule"... please, go on...
Sounds logical,
Yes, yes... somewhat of a rare commodity in today's world...
Um, huh... wha?!? Wait, did I miss something?
Oh, they're all lying? OK...
Practice is never as intense as the real thing baby.
Wozza is squeezing sour grapes... she's more than welcome to invoke he hinderance rule during her matches.
Oh Definitely
Rookie
If this is the case, then I totally agree.
Well, that IS really bad. Not making a noise until the ball is actually closer to their opponent than to them? How have they been getting away with this?
I mean, you seem like a relatively simple person... and if someone as simple as you can notice these infringements, surely the world tennis governing bodies have questions to answer.
Are there any more such-like issues we should be made aware of...?
Of course, one of the Williams sisters...
Serena openly cheats then?
Oh, not just her then...?
I though we were up to "forth"... but anyway...
Great, anecdotal club evidence is "wad-az" when it come to debating, but here we go...
You have now officially lost me.
Can we get back on topic?
Your opinion (I quite like listening to this "noise").
Your opinion again, you have no evidence for this "conceivable need" you have quantified to a specific level.
So you claim. When you can define "natural" and then apply it to all sportspeople equally, then you will be awarded the Nobel prize my friend. You cannot confuse "textbook" with "natural"... they are quite different, and I for one, am glad this is the case. How boring would sport be if "brilliant freaks" didn't come around once in a while.
A quote from an imaginary player dated 1887...
"Oh look, that player has a two-handed backhand... that is "unnatural" and "contrived" and his technique is "distracting me"... they are using more hands on the racquet that one would "conceivably need"... and I claim they are doing this for the explicit purpose of distracting me!"
And now time for the personal attacks...
From my personal experience, those people most complaining about this issue are "casual viewers" at best, and "ignorant control freaks bent on having an ill conceived opinion on anything and everything" at worst.
But hey, that's just my experience and opinion.
My point exactly... my point to a tee... this is what I'm talking' about Willis... thank you for confirming my point...
All businesses should be careful not to gentrify their product in an attempt to accommodate to the lowest common denominator (fan) just for the "ratings". All businesses stand a real chance of losing just what makes their product special, unique and entertaining if they stumble down this slippery slope...
I would caution the WTA, ATP or ITF in basing their governing decisions on a small sample of part time television viewers that have no care for, no experience with, nor any passion toward the actual sporting event at hand. Plus these "fans" may be just using the grunting as an excuse for their lack of tennis knowledge.
You have it all worked out then... you should compile a proposal for the ITF and submit it in kind.
...and now can you please make a personal attack on me, my spouse, my morals and my children??? Please...?
Thank you for making me realise my personal opinion on this matter is wrong.... please, go on...
Yes, yes... manure, cheating, apologist... yes, go on...
You comment above makes me feel uncomfortable. From what familial background do you come from where you would think that if I had children, that I would then be dating? Is this normal in your realm of existence?
My spouse would be appalled if I ever brought home a date... especially one with the credentials on your above checklist. No thanks all the same.
Your analogy is a rather poor one. It not only reveals your nature as a person, but it also tells me that I am on the cusp of engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
As far as tennis, Coria's 2004 FO loss.
I would also say any severe injuries. Hip replacements & etc.
I would also say any severe injuries. Hip replacements & etc.
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