I don't believe pushers progress any slower either as long as they start swinging out on the ball once they reach a level where pushing doesn't work anymore. By that time they have enough experience to understand themselves and their opponents and can start placing the ball and going for more. I was a 3.5 pusher but am now on the 4.0/4.5 cusp. My game continues to evolve as I figure out what it takes to win at each level.
The Truth About Pushers
- Thread starter Ash Doyle
- Start date
Every good player needs to know how to "push". It just means you are hitting shots that have about a 99% chance of going in.
It sometimes pays to push during a point....but the difference between a "pusher" and a "player" is that the player knows when and how to flip out of push-mode within a point and attack. A pusher just keeps hitting those 99% shots and waits for an error.
A "pusher" is a one-dimensional player just like a "baseline basher". Both can be effective in getting the "W". But, after a few years of this, people often look to develop other dimensions of their game...to become a "player".
It sometimes pays to push during a point....but the difference between a "pusher" and a "player" is that the player knows when and how to flip out of push-mode within a point and attack. A pusher just keeps hitting those 99% shots and waits for an error.
A "pusher" is a one-dimensional player just like a "baseline basher". Both can be effective in getting the "W". But, after a few years of this, people often look to develop other dimensions of their game...to become a "player".
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Take2 said:
Very good point, a good player can push the ball when they think it will win the point. Although it is not a high percentage shot to do so when players are stronger, faster, and can put the ball away with their abilities, there are certain times a player can do it to take the initiatve in the point.
When a player that takes full strokes with the ball and is consistent, quick, can hit his "shots" and has their weapons developed, the pusher is a thing of the past. At this level pushing isn't the game plan it is only done on certain situations and even that is few and far between.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
kevhen said:
I would never consider any pro "inbetween" a pusher and a "basliner". A good player is well beyond pushing.
Advanced players and pros are not even close to being a pusher or pushing. They can push the ball but that happens only on rare occasion, like when they are coming in and they "bunt" the ball. Pros are nowhere near being pushers and if anyone thinks that, I would like to know what drugs they are using.
It's about taking chances vs playing safe, not so much about swing technique. A pusher will take very little risk in hopes that his opponent will make the mistake. Even pros will play a pusher's style at times as he waits for his opportunities to attack a weaker shot especially if his opponent is out of position. Gonzalez is about the only player on tour who will always go for winners much like Agassi when he was much younger. Agassi now works the point as Gilbert taught him to. Hewitt is pretty good at pushing and waiting for his chance to counterpunch.
There are pushers at all levels but it's not as effective at the highest levels where opponents can routinely hit winners, but it still works at times to keep the point neutral.
There are pushers at all levels but it's not as effective at the highest levels where opponents can routinely hit winners, but it still works at times to keep the point neutral.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
kevhen said:
Well there we go again. No one here is defining what a pusher here is properly. Pros are not pushers. They hit out, they calculate their risks like anyone one would do in sports. A pusher is not taking any risk. He is letting the opponent make ALL the mistakes.
Working the ball to create an opening is TENNIS! Pros are taking full strokes to do so! Hardly a pusher and hardly a pusher mentality! They have one element of a pusher approach and that is to create the unforced or forced error. But the hitting involved to achieve this is far different than a pusher.
GET YOUR TERMS STRAIGHT!
The problem that I think is a lot of people are very lazy with their strokes, footwork and timing thus they always lose to pushers.
When the ball goes faster you can get lazy with all of the above and still hit the ball well. When the ball slows down like with a pusher you need to have a stroke that's "technically correct", use real good footwork and not over hit it.
Reliable strokes are good.
When the ball goes faster you can get lazy with all of the above and still hit the ball well. When the ball slows down like with a pusher you need to have a stroke that's "technically correct", use real good footwork and not over hit it.
Reliable strokes are good.
Yes, I think this is mostly a debate about semantics.
To me, both a 3.5 and a 5.0 player can "push" the ball. The difference is that the 5.0's "push" is a ball that would do some serious damage to the 3.5...perhaps even an all-out winner. Nevertheless, because it's such a high percentage shot (high 90%s, not going for lines/angles, etc) for the 5.0 player, it is *his* "push ball". He may be waiting for the right ball to flip the point, or perhaps his "push" is all he needs to win against today's opponent. Or maybe he's just finding his groove for a few games before cranking up the risk a bit. But, he's still playing it extremely safe (pushing) with those shots.
We all have our own "push ball"; the effectiveness of this shot is relative to the opponent we're playing against and our own skill level.
To me, both a 3.5 and a 5.0 player can "push" the ball. The difference is that the 5.0's "push" is a ball that would do some serious damage to the 3.5...perhaps even an all-out winner. Nevertheless, because it's such a high percentage shot (high 90%s, not going for lines/angles, etc) for the 5.0 player, it is *his* "push ball". He may be waiting for the right ball to flip the point, or perhaps his "push" is all he needs to win against today's opponent. Or maybe he's just finding his groove for a few games before cranking up the risk a bit. But, he's still playing it extremely safe (pushing) with those shots.
We all have our own "push ball"; the effectiveness of this shot is relative to the opponent we're playing against and our own skill level.
pushing_wins
Hall of Fame
most hacks hit too much topspin, no overhead or volleys
thats why pushing wins
thats why pushing wins
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
pushing_wins said:
Exactly
Jay27
Rookie
As my local Pro always asks whenever someone declares they could've beaten that pusher, "Did you win?"
If the answer is no, then you have work to do. It's as simple as that.
But, here's the weird part. You may play a 3.5 pusher and lose, but play a 4.0 topspin hitter and win. At my local club, there are many pushers. I used to hate playing them with a passion. I just knew I couldn't outlast them and that it was going to be a long grueling experience. However, I learned to relax, not overhit, move my feet, not overhit, and come to the net. I believe pushers deserve respect as tennis players, although I would never choose to hit like them.
My buddy Bob is a 4.5 (not my other buddy Bob) and he is a severe pusher. He slices his forehand and his backhand. But, he tries to get to his forehand side as much as possible. He's absolutely mastered his forehand slice and dominates 4.0's and many 4.5's. However, in practice he works on his forehand topspin shots and they are horrible. He's late on everyone of them--big time. I have played this guy a lot, so I know how to handle his shots. He beats me most of the time, but I get a win in there every now and then. Anyway, I don't really know where this message was heading, but I just wanted to express the view that if you're losing to a pusher, that means you have work to do--myself included.
If the answer is no, then you have work to do. It's as simple as that.
But, here's the weird part. You may play a 3.5 pusher and lose, but play a 4.0 topspin hitter and win. At my local club, there are many pushers. I used to hate playing them with a passion. I just knew I couldn't outlast them and that it was going to be a long grueling experience. However, I learned to relax, not overhit, move my feet, not overhit, and come to the net. I believe pushers deserve respect as tennis players, although I would never choose to hit like them.
My buddy Bob is a 4.5 (not my other buddy Bob) and he is a severe pusher. He slices his forehand and his backhand. But, he tries to get to his forehand side as much as possible. He's absolutely mastered his forehand slice and dominates 4.0's and many 4.5's. However, in practice he works on his forehand topspin shots and they are horrible. He's late on everyone of them--big time. I have played this guy a lot, so I know how to handle his shots. He beats me most of the time, but I get a win in there every now and then. Anyway, I don't really know where this message was heading, but I just wanted to express the view that if you're losing to a pusher, that means you have work to do--myself included.
pushing_wins
Hall of Fame
plus pushing/dinking/ mind games are so much fun
hitting out get boring as hell after a while
hitting out get boring as hell after a while
Kaptain Karl
Hall Of Fame
kevhen - Your definition is much broader than most ...
I think I remember you participating in this Playing Styles thread. Many people seem to casually label Counter-punchers and Junkballers "pushers". I see a clear distinction.
- KK
No. Hewitt does not push. His style is just about that of a "classic" counter-puncher.kevhen said:
I disagree. I daresay it's NOT possible to encounter a "pusher" above the level of 4.0. (And even at 4.0, pushers are quite rare.)
I think I remember you participating in this Playing Styles thread. Many people seem to casually label Counter-punchers and Junkballers "pushers". I see a clear distinction.
- KK
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
Kaptain Karl said:
No but, pros push, they really do, I see it all the time. All the film I review they are pushing left and right.
That is their mentality as well. I know it, I am in their mind, so I know, really...
