Uh Oh. Is Number One Ranking In Jeopardy Too?

[aldeayeah]

Like I said, 2 days reduction in getting well towards the end (when you are isolating anyways) isn't worth the risk of side-effects.

My take is, pretty much everyone is getting covid sooner or later (be it now or next year or whenever), so taking the vaccine is a better gamble than hoping your body is good at handling covid.

 

[Bertie B]

If Medvedev wins AO, he would be only 80 points away from #1 Ranking. Meddy can do what Roger did in 2018, Vulcher Rotterdam for #1.

Yes, but Meddy is an Aquarius. Aquarius greatest pleasure is in giving you something you weren't expecting.

* After Kafelnikov secured the #1 ranking, he proceeded to lose seven or eight consecutive first round matches.

* Safin needed one match win to lock-in 2000 YE#1 ranking........Guga finished 2000 as the number one player.

*JCF was the overwhelming favorite to win #RG02...

 

[thrust]

A
He only broke those quarantine rules because he did not want to disappoint others. And like most people waiting for Covid test results, it's not like you are going to check your phone every day to see if the results came in. Novak's biggest flaw is he is incapable of thinking of himself before others.

I am a Novak fan, but I am not sure he is that nice. Also, I would not be shocked if he faked the positive COVID test. Still, I do hope he gets vaccinated so he can play again, soon.

 

[Cortana]

How many weeks will Djokovic have?

 

[thrust]

How many weeks will Djokovic have?

Probably about 360, at least

 

[DSH]

Yes, but Meddy is an Aquarius. Aquarius greatest pleasure is in giving you something you weren't expecting.

* After Kafelnikov secured the #1 ranking, he proceeded to lose seven or eight consecutive first round matches.

* Safin needed one match win to lock-in 2000 YE#1 ranking........Guga finished 2000 as the number one player.

*JCF was the overwhelming favorite to win #RG02...

Hello Bertie, do you think Nadal can still win the GS title 21 or even 22 (tie Graf) before the end of his career?

 

[Bertie B]

Hello Bertie, do you think Nadal can still win the GS title 21 or even 22 (tie Graf) before the end of his career?

Tough question. With the closeness of the race and my emotional interest, it's doubtful I can be objective about things.

By my calculation Djokovic should've started down-cycling at the end of 2020. I assumed time waits for no one, and despite 'vid-19 he was done. Well, I guess time made an exception, and he was allowed to make up in 2021 what he lost in 2020. It took an "act of God", but 2021 was the end of Novak's second surge: 2011/2015/2016 ~~ 2018/2019/2021

As for Rafa, I'm too invested to see clearly...

 

[DSH]

Tough question. With the closeness of the race and my emotional interest, it's doubtful I can be objective about things.

By my calculation Djokovic should've started down-cycling at the end of 2020. I assumed time waits for no one, and despite 'vid-19 he was done. Well, I guess time made an exception, and he was allowed to make up in 2021 what he lost in 2020. It took an "act of God", but 2021 was the end of Novak's second surge: 2011/2015/2016 ~~ 2018/2019/2021

As for Rafa, I'm too invested to see clearly...

I remember years ago someone mentioned (in astrological words) that the Spanish Legend was going to have a resurgence in 2023, at the age of 37 and it was going to be his final act to achieve important things yet.
Although it is getting harder and harder for someone of Nadal's mileage, you see him still playing and winning titles until, why not, Paris 2024?

 

[Bertie B]

I remember years ago someone mentioned (in astrological words) that the Spanish Legend was going to have a resurgence in 2023, at the age of 37 and it was going to be his final act to achieve important things yet.
Although it is getting harder and harder for someone of Nadal's mileage, you see him still playing and winning titles until, why not, Paris 2024?

Correct. The most exciting thing, this year, is that Federer's chart is highly denoted. I can't say with certainty what it's pointing to. I know what I want it to mean, but I'll just keep it to myself, wait and see.

 

[Adam Copeland]

Let see. If novak doesnt play he gets down to 9015 points.
Meddy who was runner up last time has to win to get to 9735 points and be no. 1
Zverev who was qf last time need to win to get an additional 1640 points and go to 9610 points.


If djokovic doesnt play and if any of zverev or medvedev wins, they become no. 1

Provided atp allows djokovic to keep his winner points due to extraordinary circumstances

ATP should announce that whoever wins this tournament final has to play Novak for 2000 points and the title

 

[Milanez82]

How powerful are local or state mandates in regard to vaccination in US, and can they hold up even if someone is let into the US?

Only asking because i would have thought the local Indian Wells / Palm Springs community would have a very strict view on vaccination that may affect Djokovic's ability to play even if he gets passage into US?

The point may be moot as Djok is obviously not majoring in masters any more, but I'm still interested in how that works legally. Anyone know?

For example you have nba player Irving not playing local matches in New York due to vaccination rule but playing away matches.
Not sure if this is only for indoor arenas?
Does it apply to outdoor?

 

[mightyjeditribble]

Like I said, 2 days reduction in getting well towards the end (when you are isolating anyways) isn't worth the risk of side-effects.

@abmk , apologies if I misunderstood due to jumping in in the middle of the conversation, but I would have expected you to be more evidence-based.

There are still many people who get very seriously ill with Covid, including omicron. Even among young adults. Also anecdotally, I know many doctors, and they all say the same thing - there are many people getting seriously ill with Covid, but almost exclusively those who are not vaccinated, apart from those who are vaccinated but in high-risk groups with comorbidities.

A huge number of people have been vaccinated, and serious side-effects are extremely rare. Much more rare than serious complications due to Covid, not to mention the effect of "long Covid".

In young children, the risk of serious Covid does seem to be very low, so perhaps the situation is less clear - although for my son I would still worry about potential long-term effects. In this case, however, it is also important to consider the risk that they can pass Covid on to vulnerable relatives.

I think the evidence is very clearly in favour of vaccination for almost everyone.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

I think I read somewhere that all normally mandatory tournaments are mandatory again in 2022 (for whom they're normally mandatory for; ie not for the Big 3, but definitely for NextGen), but obviously it'll take an entire calendar year to unf*** these rankings from here in that regard. And it's actually the 2021 AO points that drop off three or four weeks after this AO ends. 2020 AO points are done at the beginning of this tournament. So it'll be best of 2021 or 2022 points, but only for those 3-4 weeks, then it'll be 2022 AO points only on the everyone's ATP point totals at some point in February.

Interesting. Does this mean live-tennis.eu is wrong when they've dropped 2000 points from Dkokovic?

 

[BeatlesFan]

I think the evidence is very clearly in favour of vaccination for almost everyone.

Unmentioned is that many of us are required to be vaccinated (and booster shot) as a condition of employment. I live in California which is Draconian with their COVID rules, and I had to provide proof of vaccination + booster before allowing to continue my career. Several of my colleagues have been terminated (despite 30+ years on the job) because they refuse to get the shots.

 

[James P]

Interesting. Does this mean live-tennis.eu is wrong when they've dropped 2000 points from Dkokovic?

Yes, I do think the ATP Live Rankings are wrong right now. The drop date for the 2021 AO will be the week of February 21st, 2022. It's confused me, as well. If you look at players with 2020 AO as their best score, you see it falls off on January 31st, 2022, whereas the players with the best 2021 score (see: Medvedev) have that February 21st drop date.

Actually EDIT: it appears they've since rectified the ATP Live Rankings. I know what you're talking about, though, because I also saw Djokovic at 9,015 points.

 

[Krish872007]

It's all up to Medvedev / Zverev now. They both know that if either one of them win it, they can claim top spot and finally unseat Novak after years of trying.

 

[Zara]

I wasn’t a cat person until I got one six years ago. Always preferred dogs.

Anyway, I’m sure you are disappointed and upset at the decision. I am no fan of the Australian government’s immigration policy (in general) and think no party comes out of this looking great.

I like the kitties but the mature cats are another matter. One time I went to a friend's house and wanted to sit down on the couch after a long day, but the cat wouldn't move and was very territorial. So I asked, 'I worked all day today; what did you do today?' I remember its eyes went very cold as if it understood me. True story! Dogs are the way to go.

Anyway, yes very disappointed at the Australian Government. They successfully washed away all the good memories I had. I am sure other options were available if they were really into solving the matter the most civilized way but that was not to be. That's why I never vote. Governments/politics aren't my thing, really and this adds to what I already not a fan of.

Anyway, I had trouble finding this thread. I noticed you're liking harmful posts left and right. Thought you're better than this! Will take the time to reply to the other message.

 

[Zara]

I did spend much of last February and March in London. Then last summer, we moved back to the UK for two or three years, although not to London.

Yes, of course my attitude towards Covid and the vaccines is influenced by my dad's illness (nothing to do with Roger Federer!), although I did have the same opinions previously. I honestly would get my cats vaccinated asap if I were able to!

I do agree with you that Covid shows up that our society and environment are not doing well and need to be improved. However, I don't think that that means not caring about the fate of existing human beings whose suffering needs to be tended to.

1) Most people who are skeptical about the vaccines are substantially under-estimating the risk that Covid poses to them and at the same time substantially over-estimating the risk that the vaccines pose to them. For example, there's been a lot of talk about myocarditis on these threads as a reason not to get vaccinated. However, just this week, even the famous vaccine skeptic Joe Rogan had to admit that data show that in all age groups the risk of myocarditis is many times higher from Covid itself than it is from the vaccines.

Moreover, many are pointing to the VAERYS statistics showing many adverse reactions to vaccines in the USA, including 10,000-11,000 deaths. However, VAERYS data are self-reported and when the CDC studied those deaths they could only show that nine of them were caused by the vaccines. But even if all of them were caused by the vaccine, that is still only about 1/80th of the deaths from Covid in the USA. In short, the vaccines are much safer than most skeptics think they are, and Covid is more of a threat than many realize. The vaccines are doing a decent job at preventing serious illness and especially death, and even with transmission, it seems to me that they are still doing something (not as much as with prior variants, admittedly).

2) Even if there were people who were at more risk from the vaccine than from Covid itself, I still think they ought to get the vaccine, because the primary reason to get the vaccine is to prevent the spread of Covid. When I got the vaccine, I didn't think that I would get seriously ill if I got Covid, but I would feel absolutely terrible if I got Covid and transmitted it to someone who did get seriously ill because of Covid. One way in which I clearly am influenced by my dad's illness is that I get extremely angry when I read that, "Only old and ill people die of Covid," as though that means it doesn't matter. Of course it matters! My dad turns 76 in the next week or two so he is not young by any means, but he could live another decade, maybe more. Even people in their early 60s are at substantially increased risk of Covid and many of them will live another three decades if they don't die of Covid.

Even a small reduction in transmissibility for each individual can mean a major reduction in case load overall, so even with Omicron, the vaccines can help with overall spread (and even more so with hospital resources, which are seriously overstretched). I wrote a different post about this yesterday or the day before. So, while you are obviously at your discretion to take or not take whatever medicines you like if it's not treatment for an infectious disease, I think we all have a moral obligation to get the vaccine to minimize the risk that we'll harm someone else. If we don't get the vaccine, we should take other precautions such as wearing masks and such as distancing if exposed or positive. The fact that Novak did the L'Equipe interview while positive, didn't tell the interviewer or photographer, and took his mask off for the photos suggests to me in the strongest possible terms that he is not thinking about the danger he poses to others.

I agree with you that if someone is suffering they shouldn't have to stay alive, but I don't think we should take that decision for them without some word from them. (A good reason to write a living will!)

That's a long post, helter! What's worse, I pay little attention to Covid because I really believe that whatever we pay attention to will have the potential to expand it, so I try my best not to pay attention to things that will only increase the chance of it given that at a fundamental level we are all energy.

Having said that, I have a couple of thoughts/observations that I would like to share:

1) Actually people have taken Covid very seriously so I don't agree with you on that point. The fear and panic I see in people is through the roof. And fear can paralyze you in many ways especially blocking you from clear thinking. I remember when people panicked so much that they all rushed to grocery stores and emptied most isles. I couldn't find toilet paper for weeks! Even recently, when I told my cousin and his wife that both myself and my sister were infected, the first thing they did, the booked for another round of booster shots and went for some extra groceries just in case. In fact, some of our family, friends, relatives never told us that they had corona because they were so afraid so it was very hush, hush but its presence was incredibly strong. I don't think even today people are thinking anything outside corona for the most part. It's a topic that has been dominating our lives for over 2 years now. In fact, I had to isolate myself so much so that I had no life and that's because I didn't want my conversation to have the topic 'corona'. There was no reason for me to give extra energy to it. But people are still very, very afraid even after all the vaccines and booster shots.

2) As to vaccines, I am pro choice. I need to have options available to me unless my back is completely against the wall and the only option I have available to me is to kill the other person in order to survive but that's not the case here. Life itself is a series of choices. If the vaccine protects you from getting it and if it reduces suffering and prevents death, then one should feel protected and reasonably safe after taking the jabs unless they are still not sure? Actually the notion that a few unvaccinated people are putting others to risk is pretty funny to me especially when you realize that we put ourselves in this position in the first place, especially given the origin of corona virus. And we also put ourselves through far worse like the two World Wars where we showed no mercy to even children. So I am not sure why a group of people are acting so noble and righteous when all I see is hatred and anger directed towards one person. Anyway, given that I can only speak for myself as someone who's really not into vaccines, I can say that, I am okay with others going for it but I also worry about its long term affect especially when we have no data available that would assure us otherwise. It has all been supremely rushed and executed. So if a few people do not want to be a part of it and want to deal with it naturally then that should be allowed without judgement or being treated as social enemies. Or second class citizens. I, in fact, didn't hang out with anyone who's not vaxed because 80-90% of Ontarions are vaxed and yet, I got it in less than two months of the vaccines. That didn't make me happy. So I am not entirely sure how much risk there was for Djokovic to spread the virus if the interviewer and photographer were both vaxed (highly likely). Note that there's nothing wrong with one being cautious and taking a more careful approach to it before jumping to conclusions and going for the vaccines. Isn't that why some people go to 2nd, 3rd doctor anyway to get a different opinion after they are told that they are done and dusted?

Anyway, I don't like polarity and look for balance in everything and found the current situation to be of extreme nature. And frankly, I still don't understand your very strong and insisting position on this despite your dad's ailment. Besides which, I definitely think there's a much bigger message here hiding under the virus. And people are just overlooking it and after all this end, we'll go back to same old same old agian until the next disaster strikes and wipes us all from the face of the Earth. It has happened before. Anyway, it seems like I ended up writing a long post too!

 

[Beacon Hill]

Blah, blah

You're the one supporting the guy with the nutcase ideas.

 

[mightyjeditribble]

Unmentioned is that many of us are required to be vaccinated (and booster shot) as a condition of employment. I live in California which is Draconian with their COVID rules, and I had to provide proof of vaccination + booster before allowing to continue my career. Several of my colleagues have been terminated (despite 30+ years on the job) because they refuse to get the shots.

I find this one very tricky. I think in principle it should be your body, your choice. And if you're going to lose your livelihood, that's not much of a choice.

But not getting vaccinated affects not only yourself. For instance, requiring vaccination for health and care staff doesn't seem entirely unreasonable. And some countries have vaccine mandates for common vaccines for children anyway, and nobody bats an eyelid.

I think circumstances need to be exceptional to justify vaccine mandates. But then again, a worldwide pandemic is pretty exceptional. It's a tough one.

 

[Born_to_slice]

You're the one supporting the guy with the nutcase ideas.

Thinking that you can purify water with thoughts at the very least can't hurt you. Devastating your immune system with poison can.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Novak loses 2,000 points if he doesn't play AO. And it's worse if he also skips Indian Wells and Miami because U.S. won't let him in unvaxxed. What would it take for Novak to lose No. 1? Can someone do the math, taking into account how Medvedev and Zverev did at last year's AO?

1		Novak Djokovic	34	11,015	14	0	0
2		Daniil Medvedev	25	8,935	24	0	0
3		Alexander Zverev	24	7,970	24	0	0

Zverev is the locker room #1 at the moment anyway.

 

[helterskelter]

Cats are actually very sweet when you live with them. Honestly the differences between cats and dogs seem to me much less significant than the similarities.

I'll reply to your other post soon, but we see this so differently that I don't think there's much chance of either of us changing the other's mind. To my mind, exposing someone while positive and not even informing them of one's positive status is absolutely despicable behavior, and the harmful posts are the anti-vax ones.

I like the kitties but the mature cats are another matter. One time I went to a friend's house and wanted to sit down on the couch after a long day, but the cat wouldn't move and was very territorial. So I asked, 'I worked all day today; what did you do today?' I remember its eyes went very cold as if it understood me. True story! Dogs are the way to go.

Anyway, yes very disappointed at the Australian Government. They successfully washed away all the good memories I had. I am sure other options were available if they were really into solving the matter the most civilized way but that was not to be. That's why I never vote. Governments/politics aren't my thing, really and this adds to what I already not a fan of.

Anyway, I had trouble finding this thread. I noticed you're liking harmful posts left and right. Thought you're better than this! Will take the time to reply to the other message.

 

[Beacon Hill]

Thinking that you can purify water with thoughts at the very least can't hurt you. Devastating your immune system with poison can.

I guess it could hurt you if you drank contaminated water thinking you had just purified it. Interesting that someone who believes that you can purify water with positive thoughts also believes that vaccines are poison and bad for you. Novak is incorrect on both counts.

 

[ffw2]

Haven't gone through thread, but what's going on with the points?

Why haven't Djokovic's 2000 points from last year dropped off?

 

[NAS]

Haven't gone through thread, but what's going on with the points?

Why haven't Djokovic's 2000 points from last year dropped off?

On Feb 21 I think

 

[ffw2]

On Feb 21 I think

In another month...?

 

[NAS]

In another month...?

Isn't the AO final was on third week Sunday of Feb, that will be dropping point but not sure

 

[Born_to_slice]

I guess it could hurt you if you drank contaminated water thinking you had just purified it. Interesting that someone who believes that you can purify water with positive thoughts also believes that vaccines are poison and bad for you. Novak is incorrect on both counts.

Are you denying the placebo (and nocebo) effect? Psychological, spiritual, physical and chemical properties are all intertwined.

 

[Beacon Hill]

Are you denying the placebo (and nocebo) effect? Psychological, spiritual, physical and chemical properties are all intertwined.

I'll stick to modern medicine and science when it comes to making decisions about my health.

 

[BGod]

Feb-Mar will be very interesting for the points race. Even if Novak "only cares about Slams" he can't ignore how ranking drops will affect his draws at Slams. If allowed he'll play Dubai at least to make up and he's playing MC again with a lot to gain as well.

 

[Born_to_slice]

I'll stick to modern medicine and science when it comes to making decisions about my health.

Placebo and nocebo effects are recognized and (ab)used by modern medicine.