USTA 3.5 and 4.0 seems to be pushing heaven

[Morch Us]

Well... are you sure that they wont beat you if you "simply bunt the ball back"?

You have two options.

1. Accept the fact that they are better 3.5 player than you, and try to improve and win them.
2. Just close your eyes saying, you are a better player, but they won because of "pusher" game, and stay where you are.

If they could be consistent and hit shots with pace and placement, they won't be 3.5. You probably may not be seeing it, but pushers can move around the court pretty well, and have good opponent's shot prediction.

Not everybody can be a pusher. Pushers are at every levels, even in pro tour. It is a skill, you accept it or not.

To compete well in 3.5 and even 4.0 is to simply bunt the ball back.
Otherwise, these pattycakes will beat you, since you will make errors.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I play at the lowest level of 4.0, but that level includes 15 year old girls who are No.2 for their high school, 16 year old boys who are No.3's, 25 year old ex UCDavis Club player's, on up to 76 year old ex A level, OPEN< or 5.5 level player's back in the '80's.

About the same in AZ. 3.5 may have a larger percentage of pushers, but the higher 3.5 and certainly the 4.0 isn't much pushing going on. And it is a solid hodge podge of players.

 

[TennisCJC]

I would say the top 50% of 4.0 in my level are not patty cakers. The majority hit the ball with reasonable spin, pace and control.

Also, don't hide behind, we hit it hard so we are good tennis players but we lose to players that hit is soft lie. If you are a good tennis player, you'll handle the soft stuff. It is OK to learn to play an aggressive game but if it so aggressive that you cannot win against consistent players, you've got a problem.

 

[Morch Us]

Right on the point.

If you are a good tennis player, you'll handle the soft stuff.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Also, don't hide behind, we hit it hard so we are good tennis players but we lose to players that hit is soft lie. If you are a good tennis player, you'll handle the soft stuff. It is OK to learn to play an aggressive game but if it so aggressive that you cannot win against consistent players, you've got a problem.

I thought we were talking 3.5-4.0 tennis here

 

[ZirkusAffe]

I see more 3.0 / 3.5 singles pushing like 'omg just don't make mistakes tennis' for 2 hrs, not so much 4.0 but that doesn't mean people aren't doing it... I don't see a lot of mid-level 4.0's pushing exclusively, but if you're an athletic SOB running shots down like a freak and grinding people apart in singles at 4.0 hats off.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You probably don't want to hear this, but alot of times the best shot against a dink serve is either a backspin drop shot cross-court or a low, deep slice down the line.

I'm going to try this.
It's just too damn easy to blast it long.

I will try to slice it back, either way.
Short or long.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

If they're pushing so hard why aren't you just hitting to BH, getting to the net and finishing a push with a volley?

Next lesson, I am going to practice returning dinks with a slice to BH side.

 

[willeric]

I am simply saying that 3.5 and 4.0 USTA players generally are pattycaking the ball.
Mainly the serves. The serving is abysmal. Dink serves and minimal aggression.
It seems like the basic strategy is mutual pushing.
What I was calling 3.5 serving is really 4.5 serving.

No, what you were calling 3.5 serving is really 3.0 serving. There's lots of 3.0s that can hit a serve fast and hard. 4.5 and 3.0 serves can look the same (actually 4.5s have more spin and a higher margin of clearance over than net), the difference is that the 4.5s know that you'll lose a lot quicker with UEs than winners. So a 4.5 can hit hard consistently.

There's many people who play non-USTA tennis who think it's a beauty contest. If you are trying to win and if you don't have the strokes to hit winners or force errors, your only strategy is to keep UEs to a minimum.

 

[OrangePower]

No, what you were calling 3.5 serving is really 3.0 serving. There's lots of 3.0s that can hit a serve fast and hard. 4.5 and 3.0 serves can look the same (actually 4.5s have more spin and a higher margin of clearance over than net), the difference is that the 4.5s know that you'll lose a lot quicker with UEs than winners. So a 4.5 can hit hard consistently.

Many of the 4.5s I play with are late 40's and older, and have lost some pace on the serve, myself included.
Very few are serving at more than 90 mph or so. Some of the young 3.5's (and maybe some 3.0s) can serve faster. But we can hit our spots with the serve, and that's the big difference. A well placed serve at 85 mph and some spin is much harder to return than a badly placed faster serve.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I totally agree. Pushing seems the single best way to win at the 4.0 and under, in USTA.
Particularly, at 3.5, where they obliterate the ball on every shot going for a winner.

Spin and placement and pushing will destroy the big UE hitter

 

[Gazelle]

There's a whole universe between pushing and brainless hard hitting. It's where tennis is played.

 

[DE19702]

That's a great description of the 3.5 world!--a mixed bag, you never know what to expect on the returns. I'm a 4 and I have a really good serve 100 mph+consistent top-spin second and can hit all the locations--problem is I can't move and am playing on one leg. I've found my big serve can be more of detriment because opponents frame it back weakly and then I can't get to the wonky return and most of my rec dubs partners cant capitalize on the weak return to angle it off for a winner and dink it back too. I'm finding I'm better off not hitting big serves and spinning it in instead, forcing opponents to produce there own ROS strokes which they don't have, over hitting there returns into the net or the fence. It's difficult to discipline against using a big serve but when it doesn't produce results and instead provides pace to players who don't have the strokes to produce their own it works against the big server. It's counter-intuitive to hit serves against weak players but the longer you play this game the more interesting it gets--power isn't everything. I disagree with the OP's premise that 4.0 don't hit hard, I find at the rec level they are usually the muscle-men who try to hit big--whether it goes in is another thing.

I'm a 65 year old 4.0 and have noticed the same problem. I have a 100 mph plus first serve and a good heavy spin second serve resulting in either a weak or uncontrolled return. Essentially, the serve is too good for my partners who are either low level 4.0s or 3.5s. You have to dial back the speed of your serve to get your partner back in the game.

 

[tennis tom]

Essentially, the serve is too good for my partners who are either low level 4.0s or 3.5s. You have to dial back the speed of your serve to get your partner back in the game.

Yah, ain't it the truth. I must have given my editor the day off, my post was one long run on sentence, no paragraphs and I got my "there" and "their" mixed up. I am starting to get as much satisfaction seeing my rec opponents screw up trying to hit a dumped ball with no pace--much less work then going for winners, hitting close to the lines and getting hooked.