Versions of Boris Beckers Puma/estusa mold

Hankenstein

Hankenstein

Hall of Fame
I have always been very interested in the classic Boris Becker racket with the nice red and blue paint.

I see that there are many different names and versions out on the net, but can anyone give me the full history of that mold and what versions that is to be found out there.

THANKS in advance! :)
 
(Pics courtesy of 80's tennis)

Puma G. Vilas
Puma Boris Becker Winner
puma-vilas-becker.jpg

Puma Boris Becker Super
becker-super.jpg

Puma Boris Becker Pro
boris-becker-pro.jpg

Puma Davis Cup Competition (the ones on the right)
3x-puma.jpg
 
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Puma Top Flex
puma-top-flex.jpg

Boris Becker World Champion racket Limited Edition (Produced by Head, on special order for BB)
becker-champion.jpg

Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB Limited Edition
estusa-vantech-bb.jpg

Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB
estusa-bb-provantech-m.jpg
 
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As far as I remember, he used the Puma Super. Red and Blue racquet. Did he use the others and when did he use them?

I had the Puma Super and liked it so-so back in the mid 80s before I bought my POG 90. I was a huge Becker fan after watching him serve his way through Wimbledon. However, that goofy screw thing became loose and worn as I would mess with the length on occassion and I got a POG because I couldn't stand feeling that popping slide of the racquet and the looseness of the screw.

I wish I still had it from a collector standpoint but I'm not a collector. It was the coolest looking racquet I had. It had a horrible cover that wasn't full length and was clear plastic on one side. You'll see them on the bay w/ that cover. The price is driven up by collectors as I can't imagine anyone actually plays with the Super. It has no headguard. It was cheaply made. It slips/slides.

^^^^Nice collection of pics.
I'd play one of those if I liked a really flexy racquet and it didn't have the screw and had some type of headguard and replaceable grommets that you could still get. Am I asking for too much?
 
dak95_00 said:
As far as I remember, he used the Puma Super. Red and Blue racquet. Did he use the others and when did he use them?
Click to expand...

He started with an Adidas GTX Pro until mid 84. After this he played with the Puma G. Vilas. After Wimbledon he "switched" to a Puma BB Winner (different version from retail, with 50/50 graphite/fiberglass). This racquet became the BB Super. After this he pj'ed his BB Super with the Estusa Logo (he only played a real Estusa for about 4 months). After Estusa he went to Head with his mold and had them produce 500 racquets for his personal stash and they also produced 3100 pieces for sale under the Boris Backer brand name.
 
Thanks a lot for the pics and info about the rackets. So if i want an actual racket to use in competition it would be the Becker Super that would perform best? The "winner" version seems to have to much fiberglass in it.

It would be killer-cool to go out on court in a real tournament with this old icon racket in my hand :)
 
Time to revive a very old thread.

I have a Puma Boris Becker Winner, and the opportunity to acquire a Boris Becker Pro. Can anyone tell me what, if anything, is the difference between the two frames?
 
jazar said:
Time to revive a very old thread.

I have a Puma Boris Becker Winner, and the opportunity to acquire a Boris Becker Pro. Can anyone tell me what, if anything, is the difference between the two frames?
Click to expand...

The pro contains ceramic and kevlar fibers whereas the winner is mostly fiberglass which makes it softer and a little easier to play. The pro is a pretty hefty stick.
 
I seem to recall a claim on these boards that the blue/red Becker Winner he made famous was actually the same silver/red Vilas frame with which he won Wimbledon 1985 with a blue/red paint job. But I don't remember if the claim seemed credible. Anyone know?
 
Somebody is selling a pile of the Boris Becker Worldchampion Rackets (Retail & Pro Stock Versions) on the big auction site... I wonder where they all came from...all new and shiny...
 
After Puma stopped making racquets Becker tried some others and was about to sign a deal with HEAD. He backed out of the deal at the last instant and it turned out the deciding factor was he was so used to the unique way the somewhat narrow open throat on the Puma and the head came together creating, for lack of a better word, a sort of 'shoulder'. Since he liked to cradle his racquet with his left hand high on the throat with 1 finger on the strings he just felt he could not feel comfortable with another frame that didn't have that same 'shoulder'. It's been mentioned on this site that HEAD actually manufactured frames for him using the old Puma mold for awhile.

I hit with the Puma Vilas and Becker models and liked them. Never hit with the Estusas so I wonder how they compare.
 
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I found the BB Super much stiffer than the Winner. And much prefer the Winner. In fact even with 60 or so vintage classics in my collection and obviously access to all the modern racquets I would choose the Winner if I had to play for my life .
 
You little devil !!!! This is interesting!!!
Wow I've never seen this one my friend .. Tell me about her ! Is she more flexible or stiffer than the puma winner ? Thad my MO .. Always interested in the Pumas and always looking for something more flexy in their lineage :)
Than you for posting this pic.. Great now I won't be able to sleep tonite...
 
JW10S said:
It's been mentioned on this site that HEAD actually manufactured frames for him using the old Puma mold for awhile.
Click to expand...

Everyone said this but it is not correct! Estusa/Sanhosun did not sell any Mold! The Mold of the Heads was a new one (saw it in real) and the frame also was (looking above) slightly wider at 5+8°clock and the beam was thicker (+1mm).
 
tennistiger said:
Everyone said this but it is not correct! Estusa/Sanhosun did not sell any Mold! The Mold of the Heads was a new one (saw it in real) and the frame also was (looking above) slightly wider at 5+8°clock and the beam was thicker (+1mm).
Click to expand...
From your words I seem to understand that Estusa/Sanhosun bought Puma mold, and so Puma and Estusa both share the same mold.
So the only differences were in the handles (PCS system on Puma and standard pallets on Estusa) and maybe layup ?
Is it correct?

Thanks [emoji6]
 
Pro kennex made the same racket in the day. Without the pcs though. I also had a Puma Boris Becker super with 80% graphite instead of 50%. Pro kennex made rackets for most companies who just rebadged them.
 
Do all versions of the Puma BB Super have the plastic handle? Does any version of the Puma BB Super have a polyurethane handle like The Puma BB Winner?
 
127 mph said:
Pro kennex made the same racket in the day. Without the pcs though. I also had a Puma Boris Becker super with 80% graphite instead of 50%. Pro kennex made rackets for most companies who just rebadged them.
Click to expand...

What was the name of the Prokennex model?
 
Rorsach said:
Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB Limited Edition
estusa-vantech-bb.jpg

Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB
estusa-bb-provantech-m.jpg
Click to expand...

Can someone tell me if these are anything like the Estusa PB braided or Estusa PB pro or the Puma BB Super or Puma BB pro, or are they clones of the Puma BB Winner?
 
TheNatural said:
Can someone tell me if these are anything like the Estusa PB braided or Estusa PB pro or the Puma BB Super or Puma BB pro, or are they clones of the Puma BB Winner?
Click to expand...

String patterns are different. ProVantechs got 18 mains. I personally DON'T like them.
 
TheNatural said:
Can someone tell me if these are anything like the Estusa PB braided or Estusa PB pro or the Puma BB Super or Puma BB pro, or are they clones of the Puma BB Winner?
Click to expand...

BTW, IMO, PB Braided or PB Pro (or even Pb) are closer to modern day players frames in terms weight, swing weight and stiffness.
 
PaulC said:
BTW, IMO, PB Braided or PB Pro (or even Pb) are closer to modern day players frames in terms weight, swing weight and stiffness.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Would you regard the Provantech PB (pictured)as an 18x20 version of the Puma WInner?( ie too flexible and mushy compared to the PB braided/pro)

estusa-vantech-bb.jpg
 
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TheNatural said:
Thanks for the reply. Would you regard the Provantech PB (pictured)as an 18x20 version of the Puma WInner?( ie too flexible and mushy compared to the PB braided/pro)

estusa-vantech-bb.jpg
Click to expand...

More like a 18X20 version of PB, but slightly heavier. PB got a static strung weight of 12.1 oz and a 62 strung RA. (Winner is 13 oz+ with a 50-ish RA or so)
 
PaulC said:
More like a 18X20 version of PB, but slightly heavier. PB got a static strung weight of 12.1 oz and a 62 strung RA. (Winner is 13 oz+ with a 50-ish RA or so)
Click to expand...

Ok got it. So do the Puma BB WInner(16x19), Estusa PB(16x19), and Estusa Provantech PB(18x20)share the same composition and feel but just with different weight? I have only used the Puma Super and winner, so those are my reference points, and why i am asking about how the Provantech PB compares in composition and feel to those. I like the composition and feel of the Puma Super.

Why didn't you like the Estusa Provantech PB? Is it because of the composition of the frame with too much fiberglass or the 18x20 string pattern or both?
 
Anyone know the ratio of graphite to fiberglass in the Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20)?
 
Did the Puma Vilas models also feature the extendable handle? Or did that appear with Becker's appearance?
 
daddabompa said:
It should be 80% Graphite and 20% Fiberglass, if I recall well.
Click to expand...


Are you sure about that?The Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) has exactly the same paint scheme as the Pro so you might be thinking about that one?The Puma Winner was only about 30% graphite,70% fiberglass so if this racquet is comparable, I'd expect the percentage of graphite in the Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) to be a lot less than 80. There should be publication somewhere with all the details of the various models and their composition etc. All of the specs and composition seem elusive to find- I have been trying to look it up for the past 2 weeks.
 
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TheNatural said:
Ok got it. So do the Puma BB WInner(16x19), Estusa PB(16x19), and Estusa Provantech PB(18x20)share the same composition and feel but just with different weight? I have only used the Puma Super and winner, so those are my reference points, and why i am asking about how the Provantech PB compares in composition and feel to those. I like the composition and feel of the Puma Super.

Why didn't you like the Estusa Provantech PB? Is it because of the composition of the frame with too much fiberglass or the 18x20 string pattern or both?
Click to expand...

Provantech should be 80% graphite and 20% fiberglass (same as the PB and PB Pro, it did feel a tad flexier, but it's defintely NO 50-50 graphite/fiberglass or the likes, at least from my recollection of my hitting session back then, but I am not 100% sure, since I don't own a Provantech anymore)

Consider the same 80 graphite/ 20 fiberglass composition Estusa frames:

PB Pro -- 65 RA
PB -- 62 RA

The graphite composition ratio alone may not determine the overall flex/stiffness feel entirely. PB feel WAY flexier than PB Pro, for example, despite the same composition ratio.

And Yep, I DON'T like 18X20 pattern. It feels entirely different from the rest of the Estusas.

Puma Super and Winner are MUCH flexier and heavier than the Estusa bunches (Estusas, like I said, were "modernized" in terms of weight, flex and swingweight etc, at least for those that I got in the early-late 2000s)

IMO, the only Estusa that you may find *a bit* comparable to Winner and Super would be the PB Pro, due to its heaviest weight (12.4 oz strung) among the entire Estusa range plus the 16X19 pattern.
 
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PaulC said:
Provantech should be 80% graphite and 20% fiberglass (same as the PB and PB Pro, it did feel a tad flexier, but it's defintely NO 50-50 graphite/fiberglass or the likes, at least from my recollection of my hitting session back then, but I am not 100% sure, since I don't own a Provantech anymore)

And Yep, I DON'T like 18X20 pattern. It feels entirely different from the rest of the Estusas.

Puma Super and Winner are MUCH flexier and heavier than the Estusa bunches (Estusas, like I said, were "modernized" in terms of weight, flex and swingweight etc, at least for those that I got in the early-late 2000s)

IMO, the only Estusa that you may find *a bit* comparable to Winner and Super would be the PB Pro, due to its heaviest weight (12.4 oz strung) among the entire Estusa range plus the 16X19 pattern.
Click to expand...

I had the impression that the estusa PB(16x19) and provantech (18x20) were like the Puma winner because I have come across some comments in this forum saying the Estusa PB are copies of this Puma. Maybe that was all wrong then.

Only a 'bit'- that doesn't sound encouraging for someone looking for a racket like the Super but with a regular handle. The plastic handle on the super doesn't feel solid compared to a regular handle.
 
TheNatural said:
Are you sure about that?The Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) has exactly the same paint scheme as the Pro so you might be thinking about that one?The Puma Winner was only about 30% graphite,70% fiberglass so if this racquet is comparable, I'd expect the percentage of graphite in the Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) to be a lot less than 80. There should be publication somewhere with all the details of the various models and their composition etc. All of the specs and composition seem elusive to find- I have been trying to look it up for the past 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

That data are reported in TW racquet finder and I read them about one year ago.
 
daddabompa said:
That data are reported in TW racquet finder and I read them about one year ago.
Click to expand...

You and PaulC look to know what you're talking about. My bad. I think I got all the information mixed up based on reading various other people's opinions/guesses.
 
127 mph said:
Pro kennex made the same racket in the day. Without the pcs though. I also had a Puma Boris Becker super with 80% graphite instead of 50%. Pro kennex made rackets for most companies who just rebadged them.
Click to expand...
Where is the pro kennex models ? I have never known of any and I am pretty knowledgeable on all the estusa / puma variants .
I thought only 2 others existed . Can't remember off my head but one was a Spanish name like Sergio casasle. Or something . And the other was a winn or Finn I think .
But never ever pro kennex I'm super excited to see a pro kennex puma super/ estusa ! Please someone post pics !
 
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