Versions of Boris Beckers Puma/estusa mold

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by Hankenstein, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Hankenstein

    Hankenstein Hall of Fame

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    I have always been very interested in the classic Boris Becker racket with the nice red and blue paint.

    I see that there are many different names and versions out on the net, but can anyone give me the full history of that mold and what versions that is to be found out there.

    THANKS in advance! :)
     
    #1
  2. Rorsach

    Rorsach Hall of Fame

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    (Pics courtesy of 80's tennis)

    Puma G. Vilas
    Puma Boris Becker Winner
    [​IMG]
    Puma Boris Becker Super
    [​IMG]
    Puma Boris Becker Pro
    [​IMG]
    Puma Davis Cup Competition (the ones on the right)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
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  3. Rorsach

    Rorsach Hall of Fame

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    Puma Top Flex
    [​IMG]
    Boris Becker World Champion racket Limited Edition (Produced by Head, on special order for BB)
    [​IMG]
    Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB Limited Edition
    [​IMG]
    Estusa Boris Becker ProVantech PB
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
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  4. Rorsach

    Rorsach Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
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  5. dak95_00

    dak95_00 Hall of Fame

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    As far as I remember, he used the Puma Super. Red and Blue racquet. Did he use the others and when did he use them?

    I had the Puma Super and liked it so-so back in the mid 80s before I bought my POG 90. I was a huge Becker fan after watching him serve his way through Wimbledon. However, that goofy screw thing became loose and worn as I would mess with the length on occassion and I got a POG because I couldn't stand feeling that popping slide of the racquet and the looseness of the screw.

    I wish I still had it from a collector standpoint but I'm not a collector. It was the coolest looking racquet I had. It had a horrible cover that wasn't full length and was clear plastic on one side. You'll see them on the bay w/ that cover. The price is driven up by collectors as I can't imagine anyone actually plays with the Super. It has no headguard. It was cheaply made. It slips/slides.

    ^^^^Nice collection of pics.
    I'd play one of those if I liked a really flexy racquet and it didn't have the screw and had some type of headguard and replaceable grommets that you could still get. Am I asking for too much?
     
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  6. Rorsach

    Rorsach Hall of Fame

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    He started with an Adidas GTX Pro until mid 84. After this he played with the Puma G. Vilas. After Wimbledon he "switched" to a Puma BB Winner (different version from retail, with 50/50 graphite/fiberglass). This racquet became the BB Super. After this he pj'ed his BB Super with the Estusa Logo (he only played a real Estusa for about 4 months). After Estusa he went to Head with his mold and had them produce 500 racquets for his personal stash and they also produced 3100 pieces for sale under the Boris Backer brand name.
     
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  7. Hankenstein

    Hankenstein Hall of Fame

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    Thanks a lot for the pics and info about the rackets. So if i want an actual racket to use in competition it would be the Becker Super that would perform best? The "winner" version seems to have to much fiberglass in it.

    It would be killer-cool to go out on court in a real tournament with this old icon racket in my hand :)
     
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  8. Wombat_Joe

    Wombat_Joe New User

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    Becker won his first Wimbledon in 1985 with a G. Vilas frame...
     
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  9. jazar

    jazar Professional

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    Time to revive a very old thread.

    I have a Puma Boris Becker Winner, and the opportunity to acquire a Boris Becker Pro. Can anyone tell me what, if anything, is the difference between the two frames?
     
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  10. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    The pro contains ceramic and kevlar fibers whereas the winner is mostly fiberglass which makes it softer and a little easier to play. The pro is a pretty hefty stick.
     
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  11. jazar

    jazar Professional

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    Many thanks for your prompt reply.
     
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  12. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat G.O.A.T.

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    The Boris Becker Pro was my favorite version.....:)
     
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  13. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    I seem to recall a claim on these boards that the blue/red Becker Winner he made famous was actually the same silver/red Vilas frame with which he won Wimbledon 1985 with a blue/red paint job. But I don't remember if the claim seemed credible. Anyone know?
     
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  14. vintagefan

    vintagefan Rookie

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    Has anyone compared the Puma BB Super to the Estusa Power Beam Pro? Which stick is better?
     
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  15. backfootgrinder

    backfootgrinder Rookie

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    Just strung a BB Pro, oldest racquet i've ever strung! wow that string pattern was confusing :?
     
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  16. frinton

    frinton Professional

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    Somebody is selling a pile of the Boris Becker Worldchampion Rackets (Retail & Pro Stock Versions) on the big auction site... I wonder where they all came from...all new and shiny...
     
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  17. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    maybe BB ran out of money again? :D
     
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  18. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    After Puma stopped making racquets Becker tried some others and was about to sign a deal with HEAD. He backed out of the deal at the last instant and it turned out the deciding factor was he was so used to the unique way the somewhat narrow open throat on the Puma and the head came together creating, for lack of a better word, a sort of 'shoulder'. Since he liked to cradle his racquet with his left hand high on the throat with 1 finger on the strings he just felt he could not feel comfortable with another frame that didn't have that same 'shoulder'. It's been mentioned on this site that HEAD actually manufactured frames for him using the old Puma mold for awhile.

    I hit with the Puma Vilas and Becker models and liked them. Never hit with the Estusas so I wonder how they compare.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
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  19. michael valek

    michael valek Semi-Pro

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    here are mine - the one on the right arrived today :)
    i know exactly what you mean about the shoulder - feels great. seriously considering using these full time.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. jazar

    jazar Professional

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    Anyone know anything about the Puma Dynamic 90?
     
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  21. Ciaron

    Ciaron Semi-Pro

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    I found the BB Super much stiffer than the Winner. And much prefer the Winner. In fact even with 60 or so vintage classics in my collection and obviously access to all the modern racquets I would choose the Winner if I had to play for my life .
     
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  22. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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    #22
  23. ModusOperandi

    ModusOperandi Rookie

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    »Becker Power«? Never heard of, never seen! Thanks for the picture.
     
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  24. teachingprotx

    teachingprotx Professional

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    Proracketeer is that rep bow tie covering up a plastic or graphite bridge ??????
     
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  25. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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    :D
     
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  26. proracketeer

    proracketeer Professional

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
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  27. teachingprotx

    teachingprotx Professional

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    You little devil !!!! This is interesting!!!
    Wow I've never seen this one my friend .. Tell me about her ! Is she more flexible or stiffer than the puma winner ? Thad my MO .. Always interested in the Pumas and always looking for something more flexy in their lineage :)
    Than you for posting this pic.. Great now I won't be able to sleep tonite...
     
    #27
  28. tennistiger

    tennistiger Rookie

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    Everyone said this but it is not correct! Estusa/Sanhosun did not sell any Mold! The Mold of the Heads was a new one (saw it in real) and the frame also was (looking above) slightly wider at 5+8°clock and the beam was thicker (+1mm).
     
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  29. daddabompa

    daddabompa Semi-Pro

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    From your words I seem to understand that Estusa/Sanhosun bought Puma mold, and so Puma and Estusa both share the same mold.
    So the only differences were in the handles (PCS system on Puma and standard pallets on Estusa) and maybe layup ?
    Is it correct?

    Thanks
     
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  30. Autodidactic player

    Autodidactic player Semi-Pro

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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
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  31. Autodidactic player

    Autodidactic player Semi-Pro

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  32. daddabompa

    daddabompa Semi-Pro

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  33. 127 mph

    127 mph Rookie

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    Pro kennex made the same racket in the day. Without the pcs though. I also had a Puma Boris Becker super with 80% graphite instead of 50%. Pro kennex made rackets for most companies who just rebadged them.
     
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  34. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Do all versions of the Puma BB Super have the plastic handle? Does any version of the Puma BB Super have a polyurethane handle like The Puma BB Winner?
     
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  35. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    What was the name of the Prokennex model?
     
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  36. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Can someone tell me if these are anything like the Estusa PB braided or Estusa PB pro or the Puma BB Super or Puma BB pro, or are they clones of the Puma BB Winner?
     
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  37. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    String patterns are different. ProVantechs got 18 mains. I personally DON'T like them.
     
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  38. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    BTW, IMO, PB Braided or PB Pro (or even Pb) are closer to modern day players frames in terms weight, swing weight and stiffness.
     
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  39. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Thanks for the reply. Would you regard the Provantech PB (pictured)as an 18x20 version of the Puma WInner?( ie too flexible and mushy compared to the PB braided/pro)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  40. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    More like a 18X20 version of PB, but slightly heavier. PB got a static strung weight of 12.1 oz and a 62 strung RA. (Winner is 13 oz+ with a 50-ish RA or so)
     
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  41. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Ok got it. So do the Puma BB WInner(16x19), Estusa PB(16x19), and Estusa Provantech PB(18x20)share the same composition and feel but just with different weight? I have only used the Puma Super and winner, so those are my reference points, and why i am asking about how the Provantech PB compares in composition and feel to those. I like the composition and feel of the Puma Super.

    Why didn't you like the Estusa Provantech PB? Is it because of the composition of the frame with too much fiberglass or the 18x20 string pattern or both?
     
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  42. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Anyone know the ratio of graphite to fiberglass in the Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20)?
     
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  43. galain

    galain Hall of Fame

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    Did the Puma Vilas models also feature the extendable handle? Or did that appear with Becker's appearance?
     
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  44. daddabompa

    daddabompa Semi-Pro

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    It should be 80% Graphite and 20% Fiberglass, if I recall well.
     
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  45. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Are you sure about that?The Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) has exactly the same paint scheme as the Pro so you might be thinking about that one?The Puma Winner was only about 30% graphite,70% fiberglass so if this racquet is comparable, I'd expect the percentage of graphite in the Estusa Boris Becker Provantech PB(18x20) to be a lot less than 80. There should be publication somewhere with all the details of the various models and their composition etc. All of the specs and composition seem elusive to find- I have been trying to look it up for the past 2 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  46. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Provantech should be 80% graphite and 20% fiberglass (same as the PB and PB Pro, it did feel a tad flexier, but it's defintely NO 50-50 graphite/fiberglass or the likes, at least from my recollection of my hitting session back then, but I am not 100% sure, since I don't own a Provantech anymore)

    Consider the same 80 graphite/ 20 fiberglass composition Estusa frames:

    PB Pro -- 65 RA
    PB -- 62 RA

    The graphite composition ratio alone may not determine the overall flex/stiffness feel entirely. PB feel WAY flexier than PB Pro, for example, despite the same composition ratio.

    And Yep, I DON'T like 18X20 pattern. It feels entirely different from the rest of the Estusas.

    Puma Super and Winner are MUCH flexier and heavier than the Estusa bunches (Estusas, like I said, were "modernized" in terms of weight, flex and swingweight etc, at least for those that I got in the early-late 2000s)

    IMO, the only Estusa that you may find *a bit* comparable to Winner and Super would be the PB Pro, due to its heaviest weight (12.4 oz strung) among the entire Estusa range plus the 16X19 pattern.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  47. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    I had the impression that the estusa PB(16x19) and provantech (18x20) were like the Puma winner because I have come across some comments in this forum saying the Estusa PB are copies of this Puma. Maybe that was all wrong then.

    Only a 'bit'- that doesn't sound encouraging for someone looking for a racket like the Super but with a regular handle. The plastic handle on the super doesn't feel solid compared to a regular handle.
     
    #47
  48. daddabompa

    daddabompa Semi-Pro

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    That data are reported in TW racquet finder and I read them about one year ago.
     
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  49. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    You and PaulC look to know what you're talking about. My bad. I think I got all the information mixed up based on reading various other people's opinions/guesses.
     
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  50. teachingprotx

    teachingprotx Professional

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    Where is the pro kennex models ? I have never known of any and I am pretty knowledgeable on all the estusa / puma variants .
    I thought only 2 others existed . Can't remember off my head but one was a Spanish name like Sergio casasle. Or something . And the other was a winn or Finn I think .
    But never ever pro kennex I'm super excited to see a pro kennex puma super/ estusa ! Please someone post pics !
     
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